Screaming children in public?

desertsun

Ran into this link on another board, and thought it was very interesting.

http://eater.com/archives/2010/09/07/restaurant-will-not-tolerate-your-screaming-children.php

What do you think? Is it okay for a business to ask parents to take their children outside until they are quiet?

Also, I have to wonder if they have some kind of tolerance. Like, one little happy scream is no big, but more than 30 seconds of loudness is not? Where's the cutoff?

Please discuss!

HeartOverMind

I think it's rude for parents to watch their children screaming and not do a thing about it. That really irks me, but I think if a child is screaming for more than 5 seconds (idk, that seems reasonable) then they need to pack up and leave. I think parents are half the problem anyway. I understand infants screaming, because they are learning to talk and express themselves, but if your kid is over 2 or 3 then that issue needs to be dealt with.


Edit: I think it's totally ok for businesses to not tolerate screaming children, maybe parents will do a thing called PARENTING! *gasp*

[Deleted User]

I just got into this "discussion" with my brother the other day.  He wanted to let my 5-yr old nephew sit in the middle of the produce section of a grocery store throwing a tantrum.  My brother said he doesn't care what other people think of him and my nephew was just trying to get attention. I agreed with him that my nephew was being a brat, but I told him this was a public place, it's not a matter of what people think of him, it's a matter of respect toward others and teaching his son that same respect. 

Personally, I would not have let my nephew pick out a "snack" 15 min later...yep, that discipline lesson really worked.

jeanacorina

I think some parents need to figure out what is and isn't appropriate in public. Go figure- adults not acting like adults.

I love kids, but if a child is screaming and carrying on to the point that a majority of other people are being disturbed by it, then the parent needs to remove their child from the situation.

There are other factors, too. A family restaurant? Some baby-screaming or a tantrum now and then is to be expected. Chuck-E-Cheese? Why would you be there if you DIDN'T love screaming kids? A "nice" restaurant (ha-ha, like the throwback there?)? Babysitters are preferred, but at least take an upset kid into the bathroom or outside until they calm down.

I think it's a matter of discretion, and some people procreate without knowing the meaning of the word "discretion."

desertsun

I get that it's hard to be a parent, and it sucks to feel like people judge you for the decisions you make.

But seriously, it's not okay to let your children make a mess or be stupidly loud in a public place and do NOTHING about it.

Angie -- I totally agree with you. Not the best message for your brother to send his son.

DanieMarie212

These discussions always get under my skin.  Mainly because i feel all parents get put under a generalization. 

It's not ok to let your kid throw a tantrum in a store.  The more they get away with it the more they are going to do it.  Kids are all about testing limits to see what they can get away with.

I'm very strict with my son.  I know he just turned one.  Thankfully he is good in public i can even go to sit down restaurants with hi.

At home the moment he throws his food, or his sippy cup he no longer gets it back.  He listens very well.  I taught him no starting at 7 months. 

So in a way yes i agree its parents.  Some parents don't care to teach there children and stick to the discipline.  There are also amazing parents out there, that teach there children right from wrong, and remove them from the situation.

desertsun

Also, kids are not dogs. You can't train them to be perfectly obedient. They should be allowed to be kids. I'm just saying there's a time and a place, and personally, I think it's pretty awesome that one business wasn't afraid to put its foot down.

DanieMarie212

No they are not dogs by any means, but kids will test there limits to see what they can get away with.  They need to learn there are rules, and to respect there elders.

When i know I'm planning on going out i make sure Bryland has ate, and taken a nap.  That reduces the chances of a meltdown out in public.

desertsun

Oh, Dani, I promise I didn't mean you. I think you're doing right to make sure Bryland knows there are limits. Kids need structure to feel secure, IMHO. It's a balancing act.

DanieMarie212

I feel like i have to go to extreme with teaching Bryland, since his dad is an extreme idiot.  He thinks its funny to teach him stuff thats inappropriate.  I do not want him being a little sh*t kid.  

I simply explained to his dad that if he starts saying words he shouldn't we are going to have problems.  Especially since he is daddy when he wants to be daddy.

[Deleted User]

Talking about the more kids get away with, the more they'll do it...a former friend of mine took her infant daughter (probably about 7-9 mos old, I'd say) shopping in a toy aisle one day.  Her daughter reached for a stuffed animal and put it in her mouth.  Instead of just taking it out and wiping it off, telling her no and putting it back on the shelf (I've seen so many kids try this in toy stores), she told her daughter she was silly and let her hold on to the toy and went and paid for it.  Lesson the daughter learned at such a young age?  All I have to do is put a toy in my mouth and mommy will buy it for me, aren't I just too cute?  That kid had some pretty expensive toys by the time she was 2 years old. 

DanieMarie212

Yes your exactly right with structure and balance, so funny you mention that.  I was just lecturing Bryland's dad about that.

hetshup

I threw a tantrum at the grocery store once. My mom walked out of the store. I never did it again. 

I think that businesses should be allowed to, you can't disturb many for the sake of one. 

bethsmiles

the sign in the store window seems abrasive and unfriendly, it really rubs me the wrong way. Its fine that that is their policy but I feel it would be better if the hostess told the parents the policy when the family was being seated or made the request when the problem arose.

I do hate it when parents ignore their screaming children, its rude to everyone around them. My parents never tolerated behavior like that and my brother and I rarely behaved that way (all children have their moments).

laurynfaerie

my mother never tolerated tantrums from my sister and i, we were also smart enough to realize that if we threw a tantrum over something we wouldn;t get it, but if we asked nicely and behaved like the "little ladies" we could be we would likely get what we were after, my dad had even less patience for tantrums, but he drove truck so he wasn;t out in public with us very much. i full intend to teach my kids the same thing. bribery can work wonders

Hazel_B

Hetshup - My mom did the same thing, left a full cart in the middle of the aisle too.

desertsun

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_screaming-children-public?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:4e7325de-8378-4457-9d75-45ba69c05ef8Post:7d6f333e-9f54-4b34-857b-eca08116e917">Re: Screaming children in public?</a>:
[QUOTE]the sign in the store window seems abrasive and unfriendly, it really rubs me the wrong way. Its fine that that is their policy but I feel it would be better if the hostess told the parents the policy when the family was being seated or made the request when the problem arose. I do hate it when parents ignore their screaming children, its rude to everyone around them. My parents never tolerated behavior like that and my brother and I rarely behaved that way (all children have their moments).
Posted by bethsmiles[/QUOTE]

Hmm, I think that's a fair point, Beth. I can see how families might be offended or turned off by that.

jemmini6

I forget what thread I posted it in, but I worked at a retail store a while back where these woman's kids were being monsters.  We had to tell them several times to "not run", "don't throw those on the ground" "you can't play with the cash register", etc etc and finally I told the woman that if she couldn't control her children that she would have to leave.  She was very rude about it and threatened that she'd never come back and I looked at her hand with a few $6 or $7 shirts and told her "Don't worry, we won't miss your patronage".

My mom also left the grocery store leaving her full cart.   Lets just say that after we got home, we never acted up in public again.  All my mom would say is "Do we have to leave?" And we always behaved because we knew what was coming if we had to go home...

zipis1

I think businesses have every right to do that, and encourage it really. So many times I've been out to eat and leave with a headache because parents refuse to take their children out. And many, when asked, throw a FIT and start crying discrimination and how it's a "family restaurant" (even when it's not. But even if it were, screaming for thirty minutes straight is not acceptable even in McDonalds. Other people have ears).

It's one thing if it's just a little bit and the parents get it under control quickly, so zero tolerance I wouldn't agree with. But once that tantrum hits the minute-or-so mark the child should be removed from the situation without the parents needing to be told.

As far as posting vs. just telling them, I think the sign is the best way to go about it. If the hostess seats them and says, "And just so you know, we don't tolerate screaming children," the parents are going to feel much more insulted and personally singled out than if they had read the sign. And asking them to leave when it happens causes incidents like the one I mentioned above to occur, as people don't like being called out and will become immediately defensive, as well as more embarrassed. That's when calls to corporate happen with accusations of rude service, and someone gets written up or fired (which happens more than you'd think).

The sign is no different than, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone." It's just more specific, and for some reason many parents get really pissed off when others don't want their children included in everything. Like the ones who refuse to come to a wedding when their children aren't invited.

And nice reference, Jeanna :P

oceana919

1) I think there's a degree of appropriateness when it comes to screaming children. A happy shout or a squeal - ok. Screaming at the top of their lungs for more than 30 seconds straight? Not ok. Out of respect for the others around them, the parent(s) should take the child out of the public store/restaurant and handle the situation. One of my biggest pet peeves is the parent that lets their kid throw a screaming temper tantrum for 15 minutes in the middle of Target.

2) At some point, parents have a responsibility to teach their kids what is and what is not appropriate behavior. Yes, kids will be kids - they will have temper tantrums, they will cry, they will run around like banshees on crack. It happens. However, when this behavior occurs during an inappropriate time or in an inappropriate place, you teach that child that, under these circumstances, their behavior is inappropriate.

No, I'm not a mom yet, but I do have young relatives that, to a large degree, helped raise. The adult figures in their life (myself included) taught them from a young age what was appropriate behavior. They're not perfect (no person is), but they are now well-behaved, polite, kind young women, because we took the time and the effort to teach them these things and reinforce them on a regular basis.

3) I don't think it boils down simply to a lack of parenting. I think a major issue is a lack of respect for other people. Not bothering to handle your child's behavior, letting your kids run wild or scream their head off in a crowd of people, and expecting everyone around you to just deal with it? It's disrespectful and it reeks of entitlement. I get more annoyed with the parent than the child half the time.

breezerb

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_screaming-children-public?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:4e7325de-8378-4457-9d75-45ba69c05ef8Post:9fc8e036-7a1d-4132-ac74-3af7e8743db0">Re: Screaming children in public?</a>:
[QUOTE] A "nice" restaurant (ha-ha, like the throwback there?)? Posted by jeanacorina[/QUOTE]

I just snorted... Oh Olive Garden...

Hetshup - My mom did this once.  And she only needed to do it once because I never threw a tantrum in a store again.

breezerb

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_screaming-children-public?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:4e7325de-8378-4457-9d75-45ba69c05ef8Post:fbba6baf-6ead-4ab7-b330-e562592a524e">Re: Screaming children in public?</a>:
[QUOTE]No they are not dogs by any means, but kids will test there limits to see what they can get away with.  They need to learn there are rules, and to respect there elders. When i know I'm planning on going out i make sure Bryland has ate, and taken a nap.  That reduces the chances of a meltdown out in public.
Posted by DanieMarie212[/QUOTE]

Danie - I think you sound like a great mom with a good head on your shoulders.  Maybe you should teach parenting classes to all of the idiot parents? Haha

DanieMarie212

I have worked in daycare.  A lot of the kids were from divorced parents. Sometimes the situations were so bad between parents, the kids were switched off at daycare.  You really learn how to communicate with kids, and enforce punishment. We also were required 40 hours of training every year.  

I myself was raised with manners, and when we went into a store, we knew better than to touch, or even ask for a toy.  My mom was so strict with manners that we even had to eat pizza with forks.  We were not allowed to have happy meals after 8 years old, and we were never allowed to play in the restaurant playgrounds.

I don't put up with temper tantrums.  When bryland decides he wants to be in a crabby screaming mood, he goes in his crib for 15 min or however long it takes him to calm down.

I hate parents who let their kids run around walmart, and there on the complete other side of the store.  I hate parents that let there kids scream at the top of there lungs.  I also can't stand the parents that have an infant baby crying and they just ignore them, it makes me want to go up to them and slap them.  The parents that let their toddlers stand, and climb in the carts. 

We were at olive garden for girls night.  Our friend molly's daughter Snodyn was screaming hi to everyone.  Erin's son Austin was just straight out screaming, you could tell she was embarrassed but did nothing about it.  Bryland was the only one sitting there behaving, and he was the youngest out of all them.

jeanacorina

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_screaming-children-public?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:4e7325de-8378-4457-9d75-45ba69c05ef8Post:40ccb309-dab9-4e08-b641-2039dbb9fd8c">Re: Screaming children in public?</a>:
[QUOTE]Bryland was the only one sitting there behaving, and he was the youngest out of all them.
Posted by DanieMarie212[/QUOTE]


Great job. Maybe it seems like a small success to some folks, but to me that's a pretty big deal. A one-year-old with manners. Wow.

Goldlie11

I support it 100%.  Years ago I was with my family.  My aunt was there with her very young child.  We were in a pretty nice restaurant.  He was screaming at the top of his lungs.  I was so embarrassed.  She did nothing about it.  To this day, he will scream and whine to get his way (he's a teenager now).  

I was also with a cousin and her child in the mall.  He was screaming so loud.  People were staring.  When I asked my cousin what she was gong to do, she said ignore him.  To me, that was the wrong choice.

Yes, there are times when you have to ignore tantrums.  Sometimes children will throw tantrums to get attention.  I've ignored tantrums myself.  But I would not do that in public place.  I agree the the children should be removed from the establishment.