Readings about ravens or crows?

kalizoomba

My wedding will take place in the fall, and I found a pair of adorable black birds. (Ravens or crows, can't really tell which) and I wanted to use them as my cake topper.  I also found a cute invitation with similar black birds on it to help tie the black bird theme together. I think these black birds just match my 'autumn" themed wedding. 

I'm in no way planning a pagan or  gothic wedding. In fact, it's quite the opposite. I'm a christian and plan on having a nice, church wedding. My delima comes to trying to incorperate the raves/crows/blackbirds in with my theme in a positive way. 

Ravens are usually thought of as evil, pagan, and not something that I want represented at my wedding, but Ravens do mate for life. I was wondering if any one has heard of any other positive things about ravens or crows that I could possibly use as a reading during the ceremony, or have printed on the back of the programs to help explain the reasoning behind the ravens without my family thinking I'm a pagan or something.

Thanks in advance!

belletop

It sounds a little backwards to me to find these cute things and then try to think of a reason behind them.  There is no reason behind them, you just picked them because they're cute.  If you're concerned people will see it as pagan (which I agree that they will) you might rethink using them. 

kalizoomba

aerinpegadrak, the church allows whatever I want. I don't really want anything refering to death or anything like that. 

I know they're associated with death and ill omens and all sorts of things. I want to talk about the more positive aspects of ravens or crows.

And I know it's a bit backwards, but I really want to use them because I've always liked birds, and the only birds I could think of for fall were crows. Maybe owls too, but I already bought the birds to use as my cake topper.

linguo42

I'm guessing Poe will be out of the question

Can you post some pictures of the topper and pattern on the invites so we can see what they look like?

kalizoomba

Beauty and the beast is pretty 'normal' for my family, ravens are thought of as very secular and very negative, for me wanting to have ravens is almost too much. Most of my family wouldn't ask, they'd just assume that I'm evil. 

Doves, bluebirds, or cardinals don't really go with my autumn theme.

I actually was thinking of using a bit of Poe... at the bottom of the invitations, it was going to say, "Forever more." and then in our vows, we're going to include a line at the end saying, "I will love you forever more."

I'll try to get a picture of the cake topper.  the invitations are from vistaprints here:

http://www.vistaprint.com/vp/ns/easypath/studio.aspx?pf_id=A42&combo=250691.142.1.218890|218890,218891|137|0&uei=323481&icparts=yes&ag=true&combo_id=419747&ssc=1&filter=24:10074||1,24:10073||1,24:10076||1,24:10075||1,9:10013||1,3:10077||1,4294936929:4294936327:4294936322:4294936320||3&xnav=previews&xnid=button&rd=3&ref=1&referer=http://www.vistaprint.com/invitations-amp-announcements/modern/gallery.aspx%3fpg%3d39%26filter%3d4294936929%253a4294936327%253a4294936322%257c%257c2%252c24%253a10074%257c%257c1%252c24%253a10073%257c%257c1%252c24%253a10076%257c%257c1%252c24%253a10075%257c%257c1%252c9%253a10013%257c%257c1%252c3%253a10077%257c%257c1%252c4294936929%253a4294936327%253a4294936322%253a4294936320%257c%257c3%26page%3d1%26pagesize%3d24%26sort%3dp_TO!desc%26xnav%3dgnbreadcrumb

mgietler76

I would re-think the use of Poe if you are trying to stay away from anything dark. The poem itself details a distraught lover slowly going mad because his "Lenore" is gone. Personally when I think of anything Poe related I automatically think of dark and depressing, not something I would want associated with my wedding. Also the raven represents mournful and never-ending remberence in relation to Poe's poem.

dizzinea

i'm using ravens as cake toppers, I love birds and my wedding theme is black and white, so they fit,
as far as positive raven info they are so smart they can learn to talk
they are a symbol of wisdom to the celts
the greeks associated them with the suns and wisdom
in many native american beleifs the Raven was a heroic symble and protector of various tribes,
I know all this because I'm pagan, (drop the flaming torch please ) anyway, you don't need to know this stuff you need to know that you like cute little birds on your wedding stuff, no one is gonna think you have converted because you have a couple birds on a cake

mgietler76

My point wasn't that your weddig will be dark with the raven alone, but when you tie in Edgar Allen Poe (even if you are changing the verse) it still takes on a certain "darkness/morbidness" but that is my personal opinion. I agree with PP that you don't need to include anything about the raven in your ceremony.

Robyn5298

I didn't read the whole thing, but this website seems to have a wealth of information on raven folklore:  http://www.shades-of-night.com/aviary/folklore.html

Maybe you can find a tidbit in there to print on your programs or use some other way to tie in the ravens.  I found this one interesting: "It was unlucky in Wales to have a crow cross your path. However, if two crows crossed your path, the luck was reversed. "Two crows I see, good luck to me"

I found this "Counting Crows" poem that you might also be able to use:  "One for sorrow, two for joy, three for a girl, four for a boy, five for silver, six for gold, seven for a secret, never to be told, eight for a wish, nine for a kiss, ten for a time of joyous bliss."

 

But I agree with PPs that you don't need to assign meaning to the birds.  If the rest of your wedding doesn't have a gothic theme to it I doubt anyone will single them out. 

Good luck!

trix1223

I think you're overthinking this.  Have the birds if you like them.  But not every single thing in your wedding has to tie together. 

I've seen brides here obsess because the bridesmaid's dresses aren't the same shade of green as the carpet of the church or the walls of the reception venue.

I put your question in kind of the same category.  Have the cake topper.  Put the birds on your invitations.  You like them.  Fine.  But I don't think there's a deep seated need to also include something about birds in your wedding ceremony.  I just don't see how in enhances the ceremony.  Sorry

mgietler76

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_ceremony-ideas_readings-ravens-crows?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:10Discussion:d4c3864b-0484-4bcf-961d-9853dc629236Post:7cc02571-e2a3-4955-8945-f5694306446a">Re: Readings about ravens or crows?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Readings about ravens or crows? : <strong>Also, please don't "change" Poe to fit your wedding.  It's disrespectful to the author, and completely changes the meaning of the work</strong>, since the Raven is there to remind the lover that Lenore loves him "nevermore".  <strong>As a guest, I would either be insulted that you would alter such a major piece of literary history for your own "cute" devices.  Or, I'd assume you weren't smart enough to know the poem and actually thought that's what it meant.
</strong>Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

This

LeahDVM2003

To be technically correct, Poe does use "forever more".  "For the rare and radiant maiden whom the angels name Lenore / Nameless here forever more".  Not quite what the OP meant, though.

megk8oz

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_ceremony-ideas_readings-ravens-crows?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:10Discussion:d4c3864b-0484-4bcf-961d-9853dc629236Post:7cc02571-e2a3-4955-8945-f5694306446a">Re: Readings about ravens or crows?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Readings about ravens or crows? : Also, please don't "change" Poe to fit your wedding.  It's disrespectful to the author, and completely changes the meaning of the work, since the Raven is there to remind the lover that Lenore loves him "nevermore".  <strong>As a guest, I would either be insulted that you would alter such a major piece of literary history for your own "cute" devices.  Or, I'd assume you weren't smart enough to know the poem and actually thought that's what it meant.</strong>
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

I can't say that I'd be "insulted" by something like this per se ... but I'd definitely be thinking that the couple was ignorant and didn't actually understand what they were trying to reference ... and I'd be seriously questioning why somebody would improperly use a reference in their own wedding ceremony. It's kind of like when people misuse the word "ironic" in front of me, I wind up thinking "Okay, you used that word because you wanted to sound 'smart' or 'deep'. But since I know you used it wrong, it totally backfired, and I now think the exact opposite of you".

If you just use the birds as is and don't try to tie them into the ceremony with a huge meaningful reference (That you admit you pretty much are trying to invent at this point), most of your guests will not read too deeply into them. I really don't know anybody that super analyzes the symbolism of a cake topper. It's literally decorating the desert, that's all anybody "expects" it to be there for. You bought them "because you liked them", so why can't that just be the reason they're there?

lalap69

Why not put a positive spin on the death symbolism?  Like they're symbolizing the death of your separate lives?  And now you're starting a new life together?  (Kind of a death/rebirth thing.)  I would just put a little paragraph in the program, however, and not have an entire reading for it.

ceyring

Check out this book:  "Mind of the Raven" by Bernd Heinrich.  They're extremely intelligent birds.

Witchfire02

To us Pagans and Witches (who aren't evil, btw) Raven's are thought to be ancient Spirits and are often the symbols of magik, they also hold many other positive meanings, than the mainstream belief.  PS their diet doesn't just consist of carrion.  As many have pointed out, it's true they are intelligent birds.  Wasn't aware that they mate for life (learn something everyday!).

I do like your idea of having Ravens/Crows for a fall themed wedding, instead of Doves, which are more of a Wintery or Spring concept.  :-D

I also agree with others on here--if you want black birds on your cake, so be it.  Why explain yourself?  It's fall, blackbirds are asociated with Fall, not white doves...maybe mourning doves. 

Follow your heart, girl.

sister2groom

If you want to make reference in your ceremony to these birds, why not make reference to birds in general, rather than blackbirds, you'll have alot more to choose from.