Breast Milk Ice Cream

Wrkn925

Well, you said you were worried about where it was coming from.

They check for diseases, drugs, etc. to make sure they are not passed along.

Wrkn925

But I do agree, I think that the breast milk would be of better use to infants who need it.

But I think that's the boobie owner's choice.

jeanacorina

What exactly is the concern about where it's coming from as long as it's screened and tested? Blood goes in your veins... ice cream goes in your belly. Why is ice cream more personal than blood? Color me baffled.

bethsmiles

I don't think you are understanding what I'm trying to say. I'm not concerned about it being unsafe. I just think its weird that a woman would choose to give her breast milk for ice-cream. Cows aren't choosing to have people drink their milk. I never said they couldn't or that I don't think it should be sold its just weird. I don't care if its socially acceptable or unacceptable, I think its wierd.
.
I can understand the reasoning behind giving blood, it helps save lives.

Just because I think something is weird doesn't mean I don't question things that are socially acceptable too but we aren't really talking about that, the thread is about breast milk ice cream, which I think it weird. You don't think its a little strange at all that a woman would decide to give her breast milk to be made into ice cream?  Its really not that weird of a thing to wonder about.

jeanacorina

Well, I think the whole reason we find it weird is because it's socially unacceptable. Isn't that what makes something weird?

Personally, I do think that it would be best to donate the breastmilk so that more infants would have access to it. However, just because I personally feel a certain way doesn't mean I think everyone else should feel that way or act in accordance with my expectations.

People have all kinds of motivations and choices... both as consumers and as producers of goods and services. I think that the reason this thread started as "EEW" is because adults consuming breastmilk not a widely accepted. However, hey, if people want to sell their milk, who am I to judge? Maybe they needed to pay rent and saw an opportunity to get money for something they had an abundance of. I have two friends who used to sell their plasma in order to pay their rent when they were going through some financial difficulty. I don't know if that's wrong, but I didn't think less of them for it.

What if it wasn't ice cream? What if it was just breastmilk by the carton? That would give it more nutritional value. What if they were selling it to milk banks that distrubuted it to needy infants? Does that change anything?

Should people be pressured by society to do things for charitable reasons, or is it okay to seek profit?

I'm posing questions because I'm really interested.

TheMutleys

I think that the reason this makes me emotional is because I see it as women tearing down other women for their choice.  I think that any woman should be able to whatever the eff she wants to do with her breastmilk.  She can donate it.  She can sell it.  She can freaking make it into breastmilk popsicles for all I care.  She can chose to not use her breastmilk and feed her baby formula.  I think that judging what another woman does with her body and what comes out of it is ignorant.  I feel that society looks at breastmilk as this dirty thing and that many of you came across that way with your 'eww' statements.  I feel that the biology of breastmilk and breastfeeding has been somewhat forgotten or ignored.  Formula was not the norm until relatively recent.  Cow's milk is made for cows, not humans.  Human milk was meant to be consumed by humans.  There was even a time when having a wet nurse was a sign of wealth.  Wet nurses to royalty were revered for life.   

tafft1

I think as a whole society is far too uptight and is the reason for so many issues we face , but that's another thread for another time. If it isn't affecting you personally then why the hell does it matter ? It dosen't frankly - people just want a reason to ostracize others without gaining all the facts and even heaven forbid try to understand - it's easier to judge and say "that's wrong or weird". Mutley and Jeana have pretty much said everything on the subject I had in my head and I'm glad they shared it.

peekaboo2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_breast-milk-ice-cream?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:7c3c447f-1bc0-4bbd-8dc0-f3a87a425a0dPost:360cc72a-386f-4c25-bea4-bc3502ddee59">Re: Breast Milk Ice Cream</a>:
[QUOTE]Something I learned back in highschool biology, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but my teacher told us that adult humans consuming milk is very abnormal. Most races, except for causcasians because we are weird that way, have a very high level of lactose intolerance for that very reason.
Posted by Hazel_B[/QUOTE]

<div>No one probably cares, but we talked about this last semester in my Genetics class.</div><div>
</div><div>The gene that controls lactose metabolism (the lac gene) is generally turned off when you stop drinking milk as a baby.  However, when dairy production began in (insert year here) in the high north of Europe - Sweden, Norway, etc - it became acceptable to drink milk throughout adulthood as well because it was available.  These cultures had access to something that most other cultures/races evolved without constant access to.  Since then, the gene that allows the lac gene to remain activated (lac operon, whatever you would like to call it), which stemmed from these dairy cultures in the high North of Europe, has continued through this group.  However, since Europe, and now the US and Canada, has been mostly homogenized, many caucasians have the gene.  </div><div>
</div><div>What I'm getting at is that the "normal" state is not being able to drink milk past your mother breastfeeding.  The "abnormal" characteristic is having the gene to keep the lac gene on.  </div><div>
</div><div>And that is your science geekery of the day.</div>

Wrkn925

Mutley, It seems like the majority here are saying they would not consume breast milk products because it seems odd/weird/gross to them.

I'm not judging the woman for what she chooses to do with here milk, I'm just not going to consume it.

jeanacorina

Peekaboo that was hella interesting! Thank you for that geekery!

Wrkn925

Yes, thanks Peekaboo. 

TheMutleys

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_breast-milk-ice-cream?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:7c3c447f-1bc0-4bbd-8dc0-f3a87a425a0dPost:0763c769-b02a-4e30-b7cd-7b18ab7256b1">Re: Breast Milk Ice Cream</a>:
[QUOTE]Mutley, It seems like the majority here are saying they would not consume breast milk products because it seems odd/weird/gross to them. I'm not judging the woman for what she chooses to do with here milk, I'm just not going to consume it.
Posted by Wrkn925[/QUOTE]

I felt like Marley, Raven and Beth were the ones that were being judgmental.  Well, mainly I saw Raven and Beth as being judge-y.  Beth was being outright judgmental about what women were doing with their breastmilk.    

Peekaboo, thank you for geeking out.  That is very interesting. 

peekaboo2011

And here I thought that was useless information.  I have like 4 pages of notes on it that we were never tested on...somewhere.

I've heard good things about breastmilk.  And, actually, when I get around to having kids, I kind of want to try it.  But that's also at least probably 10 years in the future.

desertsun

I feel like it's a culture thing. In Western/American culture, boobs are sexual. I think that's where a lot of the discomfort comes from. It's an unconscious bias based on boobs being sex organs and not creaters of nutrition, if that makes sense.

My sister made me read a really good blog about it but now I can't find it. I will keep searching...

AbigailMS

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_breast-milk-ice-cream?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:7c3c447f-1bc0-4bbd-8dc0-f3a87a425a0dPost:f24d0ce2-4a31-4ab1-b64e-083870ce3e46">Re: Breast Milk Ice Cream</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Breast Milk Ice Cream : I mean, look, I'm not trying to be a jerk for jerkness' sake, but what cows are producing the milk you drink? Where is the milk that goes into your dairy ice cream coming from? <strong>Mostly family farms, but some big name corps</strong><div>How are they being treated?<strong> depends where they are raised, family farms pretty damn good.</strong></div><div> Are the cows given hormones?<strong> Nope, that's frowned upon, nobody even carries growth hormone milk anymore.</strong></div><div> How much time to they spend hooked up to milking machines? <strong>1 hour each day, while lactating. Usually about 6 months a year. </strong></div><div>How thoroughly is the milk pasteurized?<strong> Can't answer that, it varies depending on what it will be used for.</strong></div><div>What if a cow is sick and its milk is inadvertantly put in with healthy cows' milk?<strong>Doesn't usually happen, but colostrum, or milk from cows that are sick or have recently been vaccinated or wormed is discarded, the colostrum is given to the calf that was born.</strong></div><div>What is the motivation of the farmers who sell the milk?<strong> Usually they own the cows, therefore they're selling the milk to whomever wants to buy/sell it. They drink that milk too. They have the all the best intentions.</strong></div><div>What do they feed the cows?<strong> To keep the milk from tasting off, the cows are fed alfalfa (sweet hay), and harvested forage and hay in the winter.</strong></div><div>What happens to the cows who are no longer able to produce milk? <strong>They are sold, unless there is some emotional attachment. </strong></div><div>What about the calves?<strong> Male calves are also sold, its likely that some end up at veal farms and some are cut and fattened.</strong></div><div>Posted by jeanacorina[/QUOTE]</div><div>
</div><div>I grew up on a farm, our neighbors were dairy farmers. 3rd generation. I don't care what kind of milk anyone drinks. Though there will be more variation in taste in human milk, considering nobody is monitoring their diet. *shrug* to each their own. I don't think I would enjoy it though, I don't like fresh cows milk. I like 2% or 1% because it's less sweet. I do think that you probably wouldn't be able to tell in Ice Cream though, because that sweetness would be welcomed. 

</div>

PaigeMcC

...boobs.

ravenray

OK I need to confess here.  I didn't read the story before I posted it   I did afterwards and didn't think enough of my post before hand to realize that I had made it sound gross. Sorry guys I wont do that again.  I feel bad because I really wasn't trying to be judgmental but I see how everyone else thought it was.  Sorry!  I took off the link.  I still feel that breast milk ice cream is gross but that is my opinion.  I wouldn't judge people who donated to that (or were paid?).  What they do with their milk is their choice.  I don't see how having an opinion different from what others think is judgmental, but then again that is just my opinion.  There is nothing wrong with your ladies logic, but I just feel differently. 

bethsmiles

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_breast-milk-ice-cream?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:7c3c447f-1bc0-4bbd-8dc0-f3a87a425a0dPost:c240cc0e-446b-4c6b-bfe4-780f904c3db1">Re: Breast Milk Ice Cream</a>:
[QUOTE]OK I need to confess here.  I didn't read the story before I posted it :/  I did afterwards and didn't think enough of my post before hand to realize that I had made it sound gross. Sorry guys I wont do that again.  I feel bad because I really wasn't trying to be judgmental but I see how everyone else thought it was.  Sorry!  I took off the link.  <strong>I still feel that breast milk ice cream is gross but that is my opinion.  I wouldn't judge people who donated to that (or were paid?). </strong> <strong>What they do with their milk is their choice.  I don't see how having an opinion different from what others think is judgmental, but then again that is just my opinion.  There is nothing wrong with your ladies logic, but I just feel differently. </strong>
Posted by ravenray[/QUOTE]

I would like to ditto this sentiment. I wasn't trying to be judgemental.

AudgiePodge

I just love milk.  Boobie milk is sweet yummy.  FWIW ExH loved it.  I would not be opposed to trying said ice cream.  I bet it's a lot less fatty than regular ice cream.  

TheMutleys

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_breast-milk-ice-cream?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:7c3c447f-1bc0-4bbd-8dc0-f3a87a425a0dPost:c240cc0e-446b-4c6b-bfe4-780f904c3db1">Re: Breast Milk Ice Cream</a>:
[QUOTE]OK I need to confess here.  I didn't read the story before I posted it :/  I did afterwards and didn't think enough of my post before hand to realize that I had made it sound gross. Sorry guys I wont do that again.  I feel bad because I really wasn't trying to be judgmental but I see how everyone else thought it was.  Sorry!  I took off the link.  I still feel that breast milk ice cream is gross but that is my opinion.  I wouldn't judge people who donated to that (or were paid?).  What they do with their milk is their choice.  I don't see how having an opinion different from what others think is judgmental, but then again that is just my opinion.  There is nothing wrong with your ladies logic, but I just feel differently. 
Posted by ravenray[/QUOTE]

Thank you for owning up to not reading the article before posting it.  Then again, I don't get why you would form an opinion when you hadn't read it.  Judgments are based on facts, opinions, or both, so I do think that having a different opinion can come across as judgmental.   

Beth, whether you see it or not, you were being judgmental.  You kept going on about how you could not understand why a woman would give her breastmilk to make ice cream.  You compared it to donating blood.  Someone can donate blood, but a woman cannot do what she wants with her breastmilk?  What about guys that 'donate' to sperm banks but are paid?  What about egg donors who are paid really, really well?  What about people who 'donate' plasma?  If the person is getting paid to give away part of their body, why does the cause matter?  None of the people in those situations are being selfless. 
Your posts came across as very condescending towards any woman who would sell her breastmilk.  If you didn't intend them that way, then you should do a bit more thinking before hitting submit. 

I will come right out and say that YES, I was/am judging posters who are grossed out by breastmilk.  I do think that it is ignorant.  I do think that it is small-minded.  And I do think that it is just another way to tear other women down. 

bethsmiles

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_breast-milk-ice-cream?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:7c3c447f-1bc0-4bbd-8dc0-f3a87a425a0dPost:adc1d100-03a8-4c70-be39-bf2fc1c06077">Re: Breast Milk Ice Cream</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Breast Milk Ice Cream : Thank you for owning up to not reading the article before posting it.  Then again, I don't get why you would form an opinion when you hadn't read it.  Judgments are based on facts, opinions, or both, so I do think that having a different opinion can come across as judgmental.    Beth, whether you see it or not, you were being judgmental.  You kept going on about how you could not understand why a woman would give her breastmilk to make ice cream.  You compared it to donating blood.  Someone can donate blood, but a woman cannot do what she wants with her breastmilk?  What about guys that 'donate' to sperm banks but are paid?  What about egg donors who are paid really, really well?  What about people who 'donate' plasma?  If the person is getting paid to give away part of their body, why does the cause matter?  None of the people in those situations are being selfless.  Your posts came across as very condescending towards any woman who would sell her breastmilk.  If you didn't intend them that way, then you should do a bit more thinking before hitting submit. <strong> I will come right out and say that YES, I was/am judging posters who are grossed out by breastmilk.  I do think that it is ignorant.  I do think that it is small-minded.  And I do think that it is just another way to tear other women down. </strong>
Posted by TheMutleys[/QUOTE]

So its ok for you to be judgmental? Aren't you tearing down other women? I apologized for being judgement, I don't why you needed to call me out again. I am not ignorant and I am not small minded. Ravenray and I apologized your post here is so unnecessary. Judging is judging - yours is not more righteous than anyone elses. Maybe before you call other people out for judging you should take a step back and look at yourself.

That's all I have say and I won't be coming back to this post because I think its gotten ridiculous and I know you will most likely just keeping telling me why I'm wrong for something I already apologized for.

TheMutleys

Was this your apology?  <a href="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/images/store/12/10/acd34139-5b6d-4411-8a6a-45869ca8b7e4.large.gif" title="Click to view a larger photo" onclick="return gSiteLife.LoadForumPage('ForumImage', 'plckPhotoId', 'acd34139-5b6d-4411-8a6a-45869ca8b7e4', 'plckRedirectUrl', gSiteLife.EscapeValue(window.location.href));" class="PhotoLink"> <img src="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/images/store/12/10/acd34139-5b6d-4411-8a6a-45869ca8b7e4.medium.gif" alt="" /></a>

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_breast-milk-ice-cream?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:7c3c447f-1bc0-4bbd-8dc0-f3a87a425a0dPost:c1c87d9e-7795-4201-a407-a9c67317385f">Re: Breast Milk Ice Cream</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Breast Milk Ice Cream : I would like to ditto this sentiment. I wasn't trying to be judgemental.
Posted by bethsmiles[/QUOTE]

If that was an apology, I find it to be an interesting one.  Plus if you were actually dittoing what Raven said, you would be negating many of the posts you made on this thread stating that you did actually care that women gave their breastmilk to make ice cream.  You were bothered that any woman would do this.  Raven said the complete opposite in her statement. 

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_breast-milk-ice-cream?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:7c3c447f-1bc0-4bbd-8dc0-f3a87a425a0dPost:c0e6aa99-7b8a-401d-937f-bfc9b8516194">Re: Breast Milk Ice Cream</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Breast Milk Ice Cream : So its ok for you to be judgmental? Aren't you tearing down other women? I apologized for being judgement, I don't why you needed to call me out again. I am not ignorant and I am not small minded. Ravenray and I apologized your post here is so unnecessary. Judging is judging - yours is not more righteous than anyone elses. Maybe before you call other people out for judging you should take a step back and look at yourself. That's all I have say and I won't be coming back to this post because I think its gotten ridiculous and I know you will most likely just keeping telling me why I'm wrong for something I already apologized for.
Posted by bethsmiles[/QUOTE]

I'm not saying that mine is more righteous.  I am owning my judgments.  I am not backtracking because I was called out.  I was the one who said that I am judgmental about those opinions.  This is where the difference lies.  I didn't go on and on about my opinion, only to back up and say that I wasn't trying to be judgmental about other people's choices. 

As far as tearing other women down, my opinion is that women who are grossed out by breastmilk are small-minded.  I own that opinion.  I own that judgment.  And frankly, until YOU breastfeed, I doubt that you will understand why I feel that way.  I am not asking you to share my opinion. 

For the record, I do think that saying someone is being judgmental AND saying that a woman shouldn't be able to chose what to do with HER body are two extremely different scenarios.   

I will agree with you that this is ridiculous, although I doubt for the same reasons.   

Narwhal

I'm with Desert (as I've discussed on other forums). IMO, the reason people view breastmilk is gross is because they don't view them as breasts, they view them as boobs/tatas/chesticles/etc. Our society views breasts as a very sexual thing, but that's only their secondary characteristics, their first priority (for lack of a better term) is to produce milk: sustinance for human beings. Breastmilk is the only food that does not contain allergy inducing properties (although it is possible for babies to be allergic to foods that the mother has eaten that manifests itself in the breastmilk) and that is safe for everyone to consume (my research isn't exhaustive, but that's what I've found). Breastmilk is also being studied as a treatment for many adult diseases such as HPV and Crohn's Disease.

I would totally try breastmilk ice cream. We're comfortable with consuming dead tissue of hormone injected animals. We eat the butts and livers of pigs, chickens, and cows. Some people even eat the intestines of animals. Yet we scoff at the idea of consuming the one food (that is reproducable and can be utilized to feed many, many, many people [sidenote: that's why the Indian culture has so much respect for a cow's life, because a dead cow can only produce so much meat, but a living cow can produce an ongoing supply of nutrition]) that was made for us to consume? I can't understand that.

desertsun

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_breast-milk-ice-cream?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:7c3c447f-1bc0-4bbd-8dc0-f3a87a425a0dPost:9d10adc6-78fc-4468-a68a-a44c0809660b">Re: Breast Milk Ice Cream</a>:
[QUOTE]I don't think you are understanding what I'm trying to say. I'm not concerned about it being unsafe. I just think<strong> its weird </strong>that a woman would choose to give her breast milk for ice-cream. Cows aren't choosing to have people drink their milk. I never said they couldn't or that I don't think it should be sold<strong> its just weird. I don't care if its socially acceptable or unacceptable, I think its wierd. </strong>. I can understand the reasoning behind giving blood, it helps save lives. Just because I think something is weird doesn't mean I don't question things that are socially acceptable too but we aren't really talking about that, the thread is about breast milk ice cream,<strong> which I think it weird</strong>. You don't think its a little strange at all that a woman would decide to give her breast milk to be made into ice cream?  Its really not that weird of a thing to wonder about.
Posted by bethsmiles[/QUOTE]

I think the problem I have with this is that you don't provide any basis for your opinion. You just keep saying it's weird. WHY IS IT WEIRD TO YOU? Jeana tried to get at this and I don't think it really got through.

Yes, people can have differing opinions. But I personally find opinions that do not have solid reasons or facts to back them up to be uninformed opinions. Why would you persist in hanging on to something, without providing any rationale or explanation, and then refuse to listen or counter the arguments on the other side? Isn't that the very definition of being closed-minded?

I freely admit that I'm having a bit of trouble following your post above, so feel free to jump back in and explain it to me a bit more!

desertsun

Honestly, I see where Beth and others are coming from. My gut reaction to the idea of breastmilk ice cream IS "Ew."

But I realize that (for me at least) it's a cultural bias, as Narwhal did a good job of explaining above. One that I'm struggling to understand and overcome, because so many wonderful women in my life have chosen to breastfeed. I respect these women and their right to do with their bodies as THEY see fit. I don't judge them at all.

I judge myself for being so uncomfortable with breasts, breastfeeding, and the idea of eating breast milk ice cream.

paintgirl

It's ice cream. How does it matter where it came from? Sheesh.

(I'm just bitter because I can only eat soy and coconut milk ice cream.)

Elle1036

The idea of drinking breast milk grosses me out.

BUT...

...the idea of drinking any milk grosses me out.  Cow, goat, naked mole rat...  whatever, I gag when I think about it.

I do love milk-derived dairy products, though.  So I would be more than happy to try breast milk ice cream.  Or cheese?  Has anybody ever made breast milk cheese?

marleylikeair

FWIW, I guess I wasn't clear enough in my OP.

I have absolutely no problem with people donating breast milk, selling breast milk, buying it (in ice cream form or not), or consuming it. Breast milk in general does not gross me out. I just don't want to eat/drink it myself. That part does gross me out. I did say in a PP that it's just a gut-level thing and not rational or logical at all, and that I completely respect (and mostly agree with) points made by others, most notably Jeana.

BTW, I'm completely familiar with what a wet nurse is/was. No problem with that either. Honestly, I meant my OP in a lighthearted way. By way of example, I'm also pretty grossed out by mushrooms. Not my thing. They're sorta slimy. If there'd been a little news piece about an ice cream place offering mushroom ice cream, and I felt like chit-chatting and posting about it, I'd have said exactly the same thing: EWWW. See? It's a personal opinion I freely admit is just a gut-reaction thing. It doesn't mean I have some kind of problem with other people eating, selling, donating, or growing them! No need to be offended or cast dispersions, IMO.

None of that was ever in question, at least on my end. However, I can see how someone could read "EWW" and think otherwise. If I offended anyone, it was inadvertent, and I do apologize for being unclear.

Also FWIW? If the positions had been reversed, I would have asked for clarification from the OP before deciding she was (or was being/coming across) ignorant, small-minded, or judgemental. You know what? Anyone who knows me even a little bit knows I am none of those things, and generally, that I make every effort not to post something that would suggest otherwise.

Okay. That ought to do it for ya, or at least I hope so. Can we talk about the Oscars now?

Hazel_B

Strangely enough, my friends and I talked about this over the weekend. One of the women there was absolutely appaled. Her view was that this was turning women into a factory and not empowering them at all. It really caught me offguard, I had been on the do whatever you choose with your own body side.

I'm kind of interested in what people think of that perspective? I don't think you can sell bodily fluids in Canada (fellow Canadians correct me of I'm wrong), I know you certainly don't get paid for giving blood, although I'm not sure about sperm. So, I'm not sure if selling breast milk would fly here.

marleylikeair

Hazel, do you mean donating/selling milk at all, or specifically the ice cream thing, or...?

I'm not sure I'm seeing the factory/non-empowering thing. Seems to me like as long as no one's being coerced, or made to sign a contract saying they'll continue to donate/sell, it's all good.

I did talk about this with friends over the weekend. One said, half-jokingly, that this ice cream thing was like "dipping our toes in the waters of cannibalism." She said "we have a custom in our society of not eating parts of each other. Next thing you know, we'll be harvesting toenails to make our scrambled eggs crunchier or something." Which made me laugh. And of course she said it mainly in jest. But it's an interesting dimension to add to the conversation.