The Genderless Baby

Beads921

I'm not sure if this has been discussed here or not, but in Toronto, ON there is a couple raising their newest child to be genderless. They have not told anyone what the gender of the child is, and plan to keep it that way. Their two older sons (aged 2 and 5) get to choose what they wear, how they wear their hair, what toys they play with, whether or not they wish to paint their nails, etc etc, without consideration of gender. They also do not attend traditional school, and rather are being "unschooled".

Link to the article. It's long, but interesting. What do you think about this?

Elle1036

I think it has good intentions, but is a little extreme.

Everyone, no matter how individualistic he/she is, forms his/her identity in part on perceived societal expectations.  If I had grown up blind to any expectations of my behavior, I would have been really effed up.

SKP82

We did discuss it the other day.

ETA: Here is the thread (CLICKY)

I think it is totally insane.  If you read the article, you can see that their oldest son has problems with the way he's been raised and I really don't think it would be any different for this child.

ravenray

I feel like the parents aren't trying to do any harm but this might do harm.  IDK I don't feel it is possible to raise a child without expectations. I also feel like this might mess with the child’s mind.  But honestly there is no way to tell until the child is older.  I just remember the stories from my psyc class about child who had gender changes as babies and then being raises as the opposite sex and how most of them ending up killing themselves.

SKP82

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_genderless-baby?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:c5deacdb-873c-4685-870a-76ee7620e841Post:73315bc9-12b9-4c06-a23c-320fbb67cc9f">Re: The Genderless Baby</a>:
[QUOTE]I feel like the parents aren't trying to do any harm but this might do harm.  IDK I don't feel it is possible to raise a child without expectations. I also feel like this might mess with the child’s mind.  <strong>But honestly there is no way to tell until the child is older.</strong>  Ijust remember the stories from my psyc class about child who had gender changes as babies and then being raises as the opposite sex and how most of them ending up killing themselves.
Posted by ravenray[/QUOTE]

If you read the entire article, they talk about the troubles their 5-year-old is having with his "gender identity."  So, yes, there is a way to tell.  They see the problems in their other sons.  And they're going even MORE extreme with this child.  It is ridiculous.

ravenray

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_genderless-baby?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:c5deacdb-873c-4685-870a-76ee7620e841Post:0dca6997-c466-4392-80c9-b453dcb44679">Re: The Genderless Baby</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Genderless Baby : If you read the entire article, they talk about the troubles their 5-year-old is having with his "gender identity."  So, yes, there is a way to tell.  They see the problems in their other sons.  And they're going even MORE extreme with this child.  It is ridiculous.
Posted by SKP82[/QUOTE]
I meant older then 1 lol

SKP82

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_genderless-baby?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:c5deacdb-873c-4685-870a-76ee7620e841Post:d6065751-b05f-4504-82a1-8dd83e18085d">Re: The Genderless Baby</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Genderless Baby : I meant older then 1 lol
Posted by ravenray[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure I understand.  They have a 5-year old who doesn't want to go to school because people think he's a girl.  So, they have seen the affects in the 5-year old.

ravenray

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_genderless-baby?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:c5deacdb-873c-4685-870a-76ee7620e841Post:7597433f-642f-44d1-bb60-7633098f52d5">Re: The Genderless Baby</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Genderless Baby : I'm not sure I understand.  They have a 5-year old who doesn't want to go to school because people think he's a girl.  So, they have seen the affects in the 5-year old.
Posted by SKP82[/QUOTE]

<p style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height:115%;font-family:'Arial','sans-serif';color:#1f1f1f;font-size:8.5pt;">But they didn't keep his gender a secret did they?  I am just saying that yes clearly their older kids have problems. But they were raised a little differently then this baby.  Maybe not but that is what I got from it.  I do think the child will have problems but there is no way to tell for sure.  Plus this is a huge debate in Psyc, Nature vs. Nurture, the ideas <span> </span>are that it is your biological programming vs. how you were raised. I am not disagreeing with you I am just saying there is no way to tell for sure.  I do think the child will have problems.</span></p>

SKP82

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_genderless-baby?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:c5deacdb-873c-4685-870a-76ee7620e841Post:08a105b4-7742-446b-a5d0-96edc17d2ef3">Re: The Genderless Baby</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Genderless Baby : But they didn't keep his gender a secret did they?  I am just saying that yes clearly their older kids have problems. But they were raised a little differently then this baby.  Maybe not but that is what I got from it.  I do think the child will have problems but there is no way to tell for sure.  Plus this is a huge debate in Psyc, Nature vs. Nurture, the ideas   are that it is your biological programming vs. how you were raised. I am not disagreeing with you I am just saying there is no way to tell for sure.  I do think the child will have problems.
Posted by ravenray[/QUOTE]

No, they did not keep the gender of the other two children a secret.  But I would think it's logical to assume that since the way they want to raise this child is even MORE extreme, the negative consequences would also be more extreme. 

No, you be <u>100% certain</u>, but it's pretty likely.  It's not right to perform social/gender experiments on your child.

cu97tiger

I hate this. These people are acting like we live in a utopian society. But instead of having 'social norms' foisted about the unsuspecting boy or girl, they will now be ostracized and ridiculed. And he/she will probably be FUBAR (fvcked up beyond all recognition)... They have taken their idealistic view of how things 'should' be and disregarded what it actually means to be human. Men and women are different, and it's not just about what's between our legs. 

Seriously, this gets me fired up and makes me want to slap them.

dragonwagon

I have a psychology degree, but I have no valuable insight to offer here. I just know that I think this is ridiculous. The parent's said it was "obnoxious" how parents make so many decisions for their children. Let me tell ya, I'm so annoyed that my parents explained to me the difference in people with vaginas and people with penises. (sarcasm)

 I mean, isn't that how their 3 "its" were born in the first place? Because of the differences in gender and sexual identities and how those 2 separate identities can create life. SO obnoxious, right?!

manderz223

A child's life isnt an experiment! This is pretty insane. You can already tell that the other children are already confused and it will only get worse when they attempt to have relationships. Gender roles are there for a reason.

Beads921

Oops, sorry I didn't realize this had already been covered. I was busy at work at the beginning of the week, so I must have missed it.

I don't agree with it. That child is being given a major disadvantage from the get-go. And the point I've seen made a few times, that I agree with, is that these parents are trying to make gender not matter, but in doing so they're making it the only thing that matters. I also think it's only a matter of time before CAS intervenes - the children aren't in school, and from what I can see they aren't being properly homeschooled either. That's not allowed. I get that these parents want to do it their own way, but there are certain societal norms that should be followed for the benefit of the children.