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umdterpgirl

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heyimbren

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_not-engaged-need-advice?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:caca7606-0e02-4ccd-900d-bc151c4ff145Post:d13c335c-96a0-495a-9fcf-6c6cd2496e54">not engaged. need advice</a>:
[QUOTE]Hi all, So I just signed up strictly so I can ask for some advice. I'm nervous just signing up for the the knot will jinx me though. Anyway, here we go. My boyfriend, BF (his real initials actually!), and I have been together a little over 3 years. We met in college and moved in together about a yr after graduation (1.5 yrs ago today). Neither of us have ever lived at home during the time we've been dating, we have always been financially independent. The decision to live together came as a result of us spending 5-6 nights a week together and trying to find roommates that would deal with that was tricky. Plus, we both worked in the same area and wanted to live there, so the decision was a lot out of convenience. (please dont tell me it was a bad decision. I agree and at this point refuse to sign another lease or buy a house til marriage). Anyway, at that point, neither of us had any interest in discussing marriage. About 6 months down the road, I began to hint at the idea of getting married. Needless to say, he didn't bite. Fast forward another yr later, I have more than hinted; we have had numerous discussions on the topic, mostly which he gets frustrated and dismissive, other times I've gotten timelines that have passed us by. Oh, I forgot to mention I am 24 (me) and he will be 25 next month. We have no kids and 1 dog, which we got together last May. I should also mention we have been 100% faithful and have never broken up for any reason. So, his main reasons for being against the idea of marriage are: his parents were never married (though they didn't stay together), he thinks we will be just as happy without getting married (which I said I won't ), he doesn't want to convert to my religion (I am a non-practicing Catholic and do not expect him to convert), he has a much smaller family so the wedding would be uncomfortable for him, he doesn't like to be the center of attention so again, the wedding won't be enjoyable, and also he says I want to get married b/c my friends are getting engaged now (ironically, i have been thinking of marrying BF longer than most of those girls have KNOWN their fiances). I don't know if any of you heard any of these excuses before, or if any of my refutes sound reasonable. Do yall have any ideas if there is anything left I can say? Does this relate to your experience at all? **I think my toughest argument is: me saying it wont change us as a couple for the worse, and him saying if we wont change, why even do it?** Now, I find myself wondering if moving out might be the right choice (he knows I'm considering this). I doubt it, but feel pretty stuck. Also, I'm considering couples counseling, does anyone have any advice if it can help us? Thanks for reading! Please be kind with your comments. I know I sound young and impatient and whiny, but I'm ready to start my life and<strong> I don't think its selfish wanting to marry the man I've loved for 3 yrs.
</strong>Posted by umdterpgirl[/QUOTE]

It isn't selfish for you to want to get married. It IS selfish for you to try to convince him to marry you when he doesn't want to.

Honestly, his reasons sound like excuses to me- which is what you referred to them of as well. He told you flat out that he does not want to get married, and if he gave you timelines that passed then it sounds like he gave you those to appease you.

I would move out and end the relationship. Marriage is a very <u>personal</u> decision, and if he doesn't want to get married then that is something you should not be convinced that you can change about him. If it matters to you so much, then end the relationship. If you'd rather be with him, then stay with him with that sacrifice in mind.

It's a difficult choice, and I feel for you. But I don't think you can change his mind otherwise from the information you've given.

AudgiePodge

It sounds like he is coming up with excuses with every reason you give for getting married.  Some people just don't want to get married.  There is nothing wrong with that.  If he doesn't, you're going to have to decide if that is a deal breaker for the relationship or not.  

desertsun

You're right. He's making excuses.

There is NOTHING wrong with wanting to be married. Just like there is nothing wrong with NOT wanting to be married. Different things are right for different people.

It's time to seriously consider if being married is more important than being with your BF.

A lot of people will say they would have waited for their BFs forever or would have not gotten married if their BF didn't want to.

However, I knew I wanted marriage, and I personally would not have chosen to stay with someone who did not want to be married.

To me, it was such an important value, that I felt I could not be with someone who didn't share the same value.

You have some serious thinking to do. Feel free to do it here. You will get a lot of honest perspectives, and sometimes that can really help clarify things for you.

So, to start, why not tell us more about WHY marriage is so important to you.

Wrkn925

Decide what's important for you, we can't tell you that.

Is getting marred so important that you need to find someone who will?  That's understandable, it can be a deal breaker if that's what you wish.

Is he more against a wedding or marriage?  Those are two different things.

My BF is non-practicing Catholic.  I just made it clear to him that we will not get married in a Catholic church, will not have  Catholic ceremony and will not raise our children Catholic.  If you are not practicing, make sure he knows how you truly feel about the rites with your religion.

bsidebella

If he doesn't want to get married, what's the big deal? Is it like, a total deal-breaker if you're not married? Is a wedding important to you, or is the relationship more important?

Kurt Russell and Goldie Hawn have been together for 25 years and they've never been married. Just putting that out there.

Wrkn925

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_not-engaged-need-advice?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:caca7606-0e02-4ccd-900d-bc151c4ff145Post:647c8b23-df19-4bd9-90d3-c0afafefbc79">Re: not engaged. need advice</a>:
[QUOTE]Thanks, guys. <strong>I will say it's definately easier said than done to just move on.</strong>I wouldn't say I'm attached to the idea of marriage as much as I'm attached to the idea of marrying him. I know we'll always love each other, I just really want the special day with the committment and celebration of that committment. He thinks this all sounds cheesy. Any feedback on the couples counseling?
Posted by umdterpgirl[/QUOTE]

Of course!  In past relationships, I've had people tell me to bail, and it's much easier said than done.


You say you're excited about the commitment and celebration of that day, so are you more excited about a wedding than a marriage?  Seriously consider that question. 

You don't want to pressure him into a union that he is not prepared for.  Just have a calm discussion with him.  <strong>No ultimatums.</strong>  Just tell him what you want/expect in the future,what he wants/expects, and figure out where those values become parallel.  If they don't, then you will have a little more perspective.

Then decide what is more important to you.

SKP82

This is a very difficult situation that you are in and I sincerely feel for you (I've been in a similar situation before myself).

I agree with PPs that he is making excuses for not wanting to get married and that there is nothing wrong with you wanting to get married.

It's not fair to either of you for you to convince him to get married.  He may not want to get married at all, EVER, he may not want to get married right NOW, or he may not feel that you are the right person for him to marry.  Most likely he doesn't want to get married right now.  Have you seen the Sex in the City episode after Charlotte gets engaged?  Miranda has a good perspective:

Miranda: It’s not faith… His light is on. That’s all.
Charlotte: What light?
Miranda: Men are like cabs. When they're available, their light goes on. They wake up one day and they decide they're ready to settle down, have babies, whatever. And they turn their light on. The next woman they pick up, boom, that's the one they'll marry. It’s not faith, it’s dumb luck.
Charlotte: I'm sorry, I refuse to believe that love is that random.
Miranda: Please, it's all about timing. You gotta ge t'em when their light's on.
Carrie: Most men I meet are flashing yellows.
Miranda: Or off-duty... They can drive around for years picking up women and not be available.
Carrie: Then they really shouldn't be allowed to get behind the wheel.
Miranda: Most men don’t stay lit long before they take the plunge versus most women who have been lit pretty much since birth.

I would suggest that if you're already contemplating moving out, that is what you should do.  BUT you shouldn't do it with the hope that it will make him come to his senses.  You should do it because it's what is right for you and in order to move on and find that guy who can't WAIT to marry you.

Good luck and *hugs.*  I know this is a very difficult decision.

SeaTea02

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_not-engaged-need-advice?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:caca7606-0e02-4ccd-900d-bc151c4ff145Post:4f01e9f1-de6a-48ed-a2a4-488d838494f5">Re: not engaged. need advice</a>:
[QUOTE]If he doesn't want to get married, what's the big deal? Is it like, a total deal-breaker if you're not married? Is a wedding important to you, or is the relationship more important? Kurt Russell and Goldie Hawn have been together for 25 years and they've never been married. Just putting that out there.
Posted by bsidebella[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>I think that marriage is a commitment in writing and that it is an important part for a relationship to get there. Ignoring divorce, you are making a decision to spend the rest of your lives together and promising it to one another. It is emotionally fulfilling to know that the person you want to send the rest of your life with will take a vow. </div><div>
</div><div>OP- He sounds like he is making excuses. Couple's therapy might work out for you, but it is unlikely that he will change his views on marriage just from counseling. </div><div>
</div><div>Do you want children? What are his views on children and having children with you? Does he want to do this without being married? (I am not saying this is a bad thing, I am just using it as another example of how he would be making or being afraid of making a commitment through having children). 

</div>

calindi

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_not-engaged-need-advice?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:caca7606-0e02-4ccd-900d-bc151c4ff145Post:4266a704-e9b7-4999-abbf-7662e6342764">Re: not engaged. need advice</a>:
[QUOTE]no, it's not a TOTAL deal-breaker. I think what hurts me most is his unwillingness to be open-minded about it. I didn't pressure him for the first 2 yrs!! he got quite a reprieve i'd say.
Posted by umdterpgirl[/QUOTE]

Here's the thing - you shouldn't pressure him at all, period.  You can have discussions about it, and tell him what you would ideally want and why you want it, and you can ask him what he wants, why he wants it, and what his thoughts are on marriage.  But you shouldn't pressure him - I once compared this to a girl losing her virginity - would you want your boyfriend to say "She got quite a reprieve - I didn't pressure her for the first 2 years, so now she should give it up."  We'd all be shocked at his insensitivity, right?  Don't do this to him.  If someone's not ready, they're simply not ready.  And being pressured honestly only makes it worse and everybody unhappy.

You're both still young, and comparing it to your friends is never a good thing.  Each relationship is unique, and each person has different needs.  My college roommate just celebrated 5 years with her boyfriend, and they're not going to get married for another 3-4 years probably.  My boyfriend and I have been together 2.5 years, and we'll be getting married right before we celebrate 4 years together.  To each their own.

I'd be concerned about how he's dismissing your feelings on this - he doesn't have to change his mind, but he shouldn't disregard the fact that you honestly want to marry him, not just some hormonal thing because your friends are getting married.

Sit down and have an honest, no-pressure conversation.  If he absolutely refuses to ever get married, then you need to think about whether you can accept that or not.  Personally, I want to get married and have children and those things are important to me, so if I were in that situation I would have to walk away.

desertsun

Wrkn has a good point. A marriage and a wedding are different things. Marriage is all about having a life that is both of yours, making the big decisions together, and basically operating as a unit instead of individuals.

I think it's completely possible to operate that way without being legally married.

The advantages of the legal marriage are financial and medical, IMO, but there is also something very special about making a public commitment to each other, and that is the wedding.

The wedding is still a really important part of being married, IMO. 

I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to have all the people who are most important to you both be there to witness your public commitment to each other. It's kind of a magical thing.

But you should NOT want to get married SOLELY for the sake of wearing a beautiful dress, having a big party, and being the center of attention.

ETA: You need to be able to clearly articulate to yourself and to your BF your very logical and practical reasons for wanting to be married. As does he for NOT wanting to get married.

You need to be very honest with each other and just put it all out there so you both can understand where the other is coming from and make the best decisions possible based on all the information.

heyimbren

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_not-engaged-need-advice?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:caca7606-0e02-4ccd-900d-bc151c4ff145Post:4266a704-e9b7-4999-abbf-7662e6342764">Re: not engaged. need advice</a>:
[QUOTE]"Is it like, a total deal-breaker if you're not married? Is a wedding important to you, or is the relationship more important?" <strong>no, it's not a TOTAL deal-breaker. I think what hurts me most is his unwillingness to be open-minded about it. I didn't pressure him for the first 2 yrs!! he got quite a reprieve i'd say. more reasons i'm for it that i can't seem to elaborate to him</strong>. If anything should happen to us, I want to be the first one called in an emergency. I want to able to call him my husband. i could honestly give two sh*ts about the wedding itself. i don't want a courthouse but am VERY open to something small and simple.
Posted by umdterpgirl[/QUOTE]

Have you been open-minded with him about the possibility of NOT getting married? Because he could say the same thing about you if you haven't.
IMO, no marriage would be a dealbreaker for me, just like Desert said. There are many, many benefits to marriage.

However, I don't think the fact that you didn't "pressure him for 2 years" about it gives him any sort of reprieve. I strongly believe that people should never be pressured into marriage.

If you can't elaborate your reasons to him, then how is he supposed to completely understand?

I suppose couples counselling could help... but honestly, if he doesn't want to get married and you do, and neither of you are willing to compromise I don't see that getting too far.

Blue & White

I think you probably need to sit down by yourself and figure out a few things:
a) if you don't get married, will you be upset (you alluded to yes, so I think you know that?)
b) why?
c) do you plan on having kids and how will you decide custody of them if you were to break up or if there was a tragedy?

Then you probably need to talk to him.  I will warn you that 2 years is a little fast for some guys to seriously consider marriage.  My BF wasn't really serious about marrying me until about the 3 year mark.  That being said, he was always in it for the long haul.  I do think these are different

If he really never wants to get married, it's really hard to change that. 

I feel for you and my advice kinda stinks, but I hope it gives you a jumping point.

As for counseling - I feel that if he doesn't want to be married, he may not get much out of counseling either.  While they're not mutually exclusive, it seems as though he doesn't want to be that vulnerable.

mellimel19

Sounds like what your bf is giving is a lot of excuses. Were you aware before you started hinting that he didn't want to get married? If not just getting married, but getting married TO HIM is what you really want, then it's time to have a serious heart to heart conversation about where you both see the relationship going. Tell him that its unfair and hurtful to you for him to agree to timelines just to appease you, with no intention of following through. Say your piece, let him say his, and go from there. But from what you said, it sounds like he just doesn't want to get married, and you have to decide if that's something you can live with.

loves2shop4shoes

Sounds to me like he doesn't want to get married and you do.  Sounds like you don't want to accept what seems to be pretty obvious, clear messages that it's just not going to happen.  If not getting married is a dealbreaker for you, I'd pack my bags.  You can't force someone into marriage and giving ultimatums is never a good idea.

calindi

Why'd you just erase your message?  Others had already quoted it, and it's considered really rude to delete your post.

AudgiePodge

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_not-engaged-need-advice?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:caca7606-0e02-4ccd-900d-bc151c4ff145Post:d13c335c-96a0-495a-9fcf-6c6cd2496e54">---</a>:
[QUOTE]--
Posted by umdterpgirl[/QUOTE]

<div>No point in this if you've been quoted!</div>

Elle1036

Aw, why the DD?

ravenray

True can hurt maybe?  DD is never a good way to handle things.

SKP82

If she DD, it didn't happen.  Didn't you know that??

ravenray

Oh! Ya sorry.  Silly me!

bourgehm

Well I dont' think you should get married because, you see, his initials are BF... That must be a sign. You dont' want to mess that up and make him an FI and for sure not a DH!!!!

MLekathLEEN

Dag, we haven't had a DD in awhile!

SeaTea02

Seriously? No one was mean. Grow a pair. 

jeanacorina

Some people have the misunderstanding that once their question is answered, they should delete it. Apparently that's how some forums work. I dunno.