It IS in the water

ravenray

My BF is being a real jerk.  I just need to vent a little and maybe some advice.  I don’t usually post about fights that we have because we get over them pretty quickly and things go back to normal.  But I am really hurt by him and I doubt he is going to compromise.  So here is the story.  About two weeks ago something happened that betrayed my trust.  It hurt pretty badly but I forgave him, I know he felt bad about it (he cried) and it is a forgivable offense.  So I told him last night I did something because I didn’t trust him completely because of this said event.  He was really hurt by that (I understand that but why he thought he gets all the trust back is beyond me).  So because he was hurt we started fighting.  He asked me to not tell him that I love him because what he hears when I tell him I love him is that I trust him completely.   That is so hypocritical because I told him I dislike when he tells me that he loves me in the middle of an argument, my mother does that to manipulate me so I hate it when he does it.   He has never stopped doing it, which is his right but I dislike it.  It is really not fair that he is asking me to not tell him that I love him.  I do love him, but because he messed up he doesn’t have my trust completely (in that area).  He has about 75% but trust takes time with me, especially after he broke it.  So I am pissed and hurt because I want to tell him I love him, but I can’t because he won’t believe me and I know that he will be thinking that and might say something.  I am upset and tired.  Thanks for letting me rant.

Elle1036

I think it's understandable that you don't trust him as much as you did before.  It sounds like he thought it was over when you forgave him, and it shocked him a little to realize that he's still dealing with the consequences of whatever he did.

Well, Ray's BF, welcome to an adult relationship.  "Sorry" doesn't fix everything.

I'm sorry that you're both hurting, but I think it was right for to let him know that you don't completely trust him yet.  That's just going to take time, like you said, and it would be unfair to him to let him continue thinking everything's ok when it's not.

Just hang in there.  You'll both feel better soon.

ravenray

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_water?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:dd861b06-4021-4129-b344-952ca53e310bPost:ef9dbc12-1b6e-4502-bc5d-57b73e6d6e7b">Re: It IS in the water</a>:
[QUOTE] Well, Ray's BF, welcome to an adult relationship.  "Sorry" doesn't fix everything. Posted by Elle1036[/QUOTE]

<p style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;" class="MsoNormal"><font size="3"><span style="font-family:'Arial','sans-serif';color:#1f1f1f;">This is my favorite quote.  :)  Thanks for the encouragement.  I know things will get better.  :/ </span><span><font face="Calibri" color="#000000"> </font></span></font></p>

Hazel_B

Maybe my perspective is a little off on this one, but I think he is wrong to interpret I love you in a this way. He is essentially turning it into another type of I forgive you, which i don't think is good.
 
If you love him then i think you can say it, if he doesn't like the fact that he knows that you don't 100% trust him then tell him to work on it and rebuild your trust. You can have a separate conversation on trust.

I agree with Elle, this is adulthood now and sorry doesn't fix everything.

jaycee7389

My personal opinion is no one should be saying "don't tell me you love me" or "it's not appropriate to say I love you when we fight".

I do agree with Hazel in that it sounds like he is replacing "I'm sorry" with "I love you" which is not okay.

I'm not sure what he did to break your trust, but he needs to understand how important trust is in a relationship and that it takes time and work to earn it back. Just be careful you don't turn every situation into "how am I supposed to trust you if.." or "this isn't helping to earn your trust back". Those will just turn into bigger fights.

csousa1

I love you means I love you. It doesn't mean I forgive you, it doesn't mean I trust you, it doesn't even mean I like you. You can love someone and not trust or like them much at the moment. Ray's BF, you may not change the meanings of the English language to suit your emotional needs.

It sounds to me like he is trying to take back some control that he lost when you were given the control of forgiving him or not, staying with him or not, and trusting him again or not. By asking you not to say that, he is essentially making you feel like you have to hurry up this not trusting thing so that you can say what you want again. That isn't fair. He may not even be consciously doing it, but I think you should still confront him about that anyway.

I'm sorry you are going through tough stuff It sounds like you guys are communicating pretty well in general about all of this, and just have a few rough areas. If you can sit and talk to him calmly about this, I'm sure he will receive it well and you guys can work it out and get back on track. Best of luck, and HUGS!

ravenray

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_water?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:dd861b06-4021-4129-b344-952ca53e310bPost:ea0426de-c7f0-4586-9288-fbaa8521d7f2">Re: It IS in the water</a>:
[QUOTE]My personal opinion is no one should be saying "don't tell me you love me" or "it's not appropriate to say I love you when we fight". I do agree with Hazel in that it sounds like he is replacing "I'm sorry" with "I love you" which is not okay. I'm not sure what he did to break your trust, but he needs to understand how important trust is in a relationship and that it takes time and work to earn it back. <strong>Just be careful you don't turn every situation into "how am I supposed to trust you if.." or "this isn't helping to earn your trust back". Those will just turn into bigger fights.
</strong>Posted by jaycee7389[/QUOTE]

<p style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:'Arial','sans-serif';color:#1f1f1f;"><font size="3">I really try not to.  This is the first time I have mentioned it in two weeks.  I don't feel like he needs to earn my trust back but he does need to give me time to choose to trust him again. 
I also respect your opinions.  I just feel differently.</font></span></p>

jaycee7389

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_water?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:dd861b06-4021-4129-b344-952ca53e310bPost:c6b51e9c-7c64-4504-8d7b-4bba91d7b2e5">Re: It IS in the water</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: It IS in the water : I really try not to.  This is the first time I have mentioned it in two weeks.  I don't feel like he needs to earn my trust back but he does need to give me time to choose to trust him again.  I also respect your opinions.  I just feel differently.
Posted by ravenray[/QUOTE]

Oh hun I wasn't saying you ARE doing that! I was just saying be careful not to, because it seems like that tends to happen with fights over trust issues.

ravenray

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_water?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:dd861b06-4021-4129-b344-952ca53e310bPost:18d6f517-24ef-48cb-8186-5245e96cc155">Re: It IS in the water</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: It IS in the water : Oh hun I wasn't saying you ARE doing that! I was just saying be careful not to, because it seems like that tends to happen with fights over trust issues.
Posted by jaycee7389[/QUOTE]

Oh I know you weren't.  I was just saying I am trying not too.  :)  No worries.

lmwilber

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_water?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:dd861b06-4021-4129-b344-952ca53e310bPost:76e7b048-9d07-4784-a60c-9ab4372ba604">It IS in the water</a>:
[QUOTE]My BF is being a real jerk.   I just need to vent a little and maybe some advice.   I don’t usually post about fights that we have because we get over them pretty quickly and things go back to normal.   But I am really hurt by him and I doubt he is going to compromise.   So here is the story.   About two weeks ago something happened that betrayed my trust.   It hurt pretty badly but I forgave him, I know he felt bad about it (he cried) and it is a forgivable offense.   So I told him last night I did something because I didn’t trust him completely because of this said event.  <div><span style="white-space:pre;" class="Apple-tab-span"> </span></div><div><strong><span style="white-space:pre;" class="Apple-tab-span"> </span>I don't know what he did or you did, but if what you did was snoop on his phone or email then I think that he has every right to be upset. Snooping is bad, it shows that you have 0% trust. As a reformed snooper I can tell you that it fixes nothing. It basically says, "ha you messed up, so I get all the power now" Rebuilding trust in a relationship is more then just him doing whatever it is you've asked him to do, it means that you are willing to trust him again. If your snooping, your not willing to trust him. </strong>
<div><span style="white-space:pre;" class="Apple-tab-span"> </span></div><div> He was really hurt by that (I understand that but why he thought he gets all the trust back is beyond me).   So because he was hurt we started fighting.   He asked me to not tell him that I love him because what he hears when I tell him I love him is that I trust him completely.    That is so hypocritical because I told him I dislike when he tells me that he loves me in the middle of an argument, my mother does that to manipulate me so I hate it when he does it.    He has never stopped doing it, which is his right but I dislike it.  </div><div><span style="white-space:pre;" class="Apple-tab-span"> </span></div><div><strong><span style="white-space:pre;" class="Apple-tab-span"> </span>He's not your mother, he's not trying to manipulate you. I guessing that he's trying to reassure you that even though there is a fight happening at this moment, he still cares very deeply for you. </strong></div><div> </div><div>It is really not fair that he is asking me to not tell him that I love him. </div><div><span style="white-space:pre;" class="Apple-tab-span"> </span></div><div><strong><span style="white-space:pre;" class="Apple-tab-span"> </span>Isn't this what you asked him not to do? Why is it fair for you to tell him not to say I love You during a fight, but its not fair for him to ask you to not say it now? FTR I think that telling the other person its not ok to say I love you at any given point is unfair.</strong></div><div> </div><div>  I do love him, but because he messed up he doesn’t have my trust completely (in that area).   He has about 75% but trust takes time with me, especially after he broke it.   So I am pissed and hurt because I want to tell him I love him, but I can’t because he won’t believe me and I know that he will be thinking that and might say something.   I am upset and tired.   Thanks for letting me rant. :/</div><div>
</div><div><strong><span style="white-space:pre;" class="Apple-tab-span"> </span></strong><strong>If you love him tell him. If he chooses not to hear it, oh well. Then give it time. Do not snoop. Have open conversations if something is bugging you. You're right, trust takes time. But its also a two way street. Its means showing him you trust him as much as it means him showing you that you can trust him.
</strong></div><div><strong><span style="white-space:pre;" class="Apple-tab-span"> </span>And lest you think I'm some mean b!itch, BF and I went through a similar trust damaging but non-dump-able offence situation a few years ago. So I know what you are going through. I know that it really hurts, and you want to keep checking up on him, but if you have truly forgiven him, you have to let it go and start to trust each other again.</strong></div><div>Posted by ravenray[/QUOTE]

</div></div>

calindi

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_water?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:dd861b06-4021-4129-b344-952ca53e310bPost:5b36bcc0-e70b-416f-acdb-74a64ab03400">Re: It IS in the water</a>:
[QUOTE]I love you means I love you. It doesn't mean I forgive you, it doesn't mean I trust you, it doesn't even mean I like you. You can love someone and not trust or like them much at the moment.
Posted by csousa1[/QUOTE]


This, right here.  I think you both need to have a conversation when you're both calm about how you need to be able to love each other every day for the rest of your life if you want to be together and get married and grow old together.  Love is constant, though there are days you won't particularly like each other or feel romantic towards the other, and there are days you may not have as much trust towards each other.  I don't think it's fair for either of you to make 'rules' for how to speak to one another, but letting each other know your preferences is fine.  Explain to him what you mean when you say "I love you" and what it means to you to hear it from him.  Explain to him how you feel about everything - that you forgive him and understand, but you'll take a bit more time to heal before you trust him fully.  And at the same token, apologize if necessary (or even if not necessary - a "I'm sorry you felt --- when I ----.  It's never my intention to hurt you" usually does the trick.) for whatever you did in retaliation/response to whatever he did.

heyimbren

I agree with everyone else really, especially Hazel's point about the definition of what "I love you" means. BF and I went over this a while ago, about what it means when we say that; exactly what that entails. It sounds weird but it was really good for us.

However, I also strongly agree with Wilber. Raven, we don't know exactly what he did but I can tell you that like Wilber, I've been in a similar situation. If it involved, snooping, that won't fix anything. I was extremely fortunate that BF was able to work with me through that instead of getting mad at me like he had every right to do. If it wasn't snooping, then this may not apply to you.

But you're right, trust doesn't come back right away. I find it helps for me to think about why I feel that my trust has been betrayed. Be totally honest with myself and get to the root problems. Often I find that it has less to do with BF and what just happened. Other times it is exactly about that, and once I realize that I can explain it to him so he understands my POV. Things like that have really helped us.

ravenray

I didn't snoop.  He told me. I would have never known if he hadn't told me.  So that isn't applicable in this situation.
You guys are right.  It isn't fair for me or him to make rules on how we can say I love you.  I will work on that.  I hope he can too.  I know we will have another conversation, tonight most likely.  I will do my best to be calm and rational. 
I just feel like I need some time to distance myself from what happened.  There is nothing he can really do to "earn" my trust, and I don't feel like he feels that way, at least it never came up in our conversation last night.  I just need some time to heal.
Wilber you are completely right when you said he isn't my mother.  I know he isn't.  It isn't his fault and he is trying to show me that he loves me.  I will work on that. 
Thanks girls.  I don't like to hear that I am wrong, but it is good. 

heyimbren

If he told you, then keep that in mind too. Whatever he did, at least he did tell you. I think that says something too

I don't think love is a tit-for-tat thing. Sometimes other people are going to let us down in different ways, and we need to learn to roll with that. What's important is how you deal with it afterwards.

IrishDreamer

I love you means I love you. It doesn't mean I forgive you, it doesn't mean I trust you, it doesn't even mean I like you. You can love someone and not trust or like them much at the moment. Ray's BF, you may not change the meanings of the English language to suit your emotional needs.

this.....

ravenray

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_water?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:dd861b06-4021-4129-b344-952ca53e310bPost:a6644682-842d-4493-8a92-086c39d84d3d">Re: It IS in the water</a>:
[QUOTE]If he told you, then keep that in mind too. Whatever he did, at least he did tell you. I think that says something too :) I don't think love is a tit-for-tat thing. Sometimes other people are going to let us down in different ways, and we need to learn to roll with that. What's important is how you deal with it afterwards.
Posted by heyimbren[/QUOTE]

All good points. :)

loves2shop4shoes

Sousa FTW.

Also, can we create some new petition to change the water treatments?

tafft1

Something is in the water , I am convinced after this week - hubby and I had a rough night the other day - though we have learned how to effectively communicate and actually talk things out over slamming doors and getting in each other's space. I will say even though he did come to you about whatever it was , he needs to understand it dosen't automatically make it okay either. Trust is different for everyone I find. For some it is as sacred as a marriage vow - others it is easier to forgove and forget - there is no right or wrong to this obviously , but it needs to be understood why it may not come so easily. My husband breached my trust at one time in our relationship before we were married , and it was hurtful and it took time and actions on both sides to move forward. Talking things out is important and isn't easy at all but will be worth it. *hugs* Wishing you the best.

loves2shop4shoes

Alright, if we're spilling.  Something IS in the water.  FI and I haven't been "clicking" super well lately.  I've been super emotional lately.  He's had a few grumpy Virgo moments lately, which just make me feel even crazier (because I'm already emotional.)  We're working opposite schedules, so I don't get to snuggle him nearly as much as I'd like.  And truth be told, our sex life never fully bounced back since FI's whole hydrocele problem.

I know in the grand scheme of life, these are not big issues and are totally resolvable.  I just feel less connected to him than I typically do.  

tafft1

"I know in the grand scheme of life, these are not big issues and are totally resolvable.  I just feel less connected to him than I typically do.  "

That is exactly how I felt too..and after a long talk , tears , and explaining why I felt this way , as always we are bouncing back together. No one ever said relationships would be easy or carefree..life happens. And it is okay to feel that way sometimes , we're all human after all. *hugs to all*

csousa1

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_water?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:dd861b06-4021-4129-b344-952ca53e310bPost:12f366bd-da10-4dab-9827-6f194e50c953">Re: It IS in the water</a>:
[QUOTE]Alright, if we're spilling.  Something IS in the water.  FI and I haven't been "clicking" super well lately.  I've been super emotional lately.  He's had a few grumpy Virgo moments lately, which just make me feel even crazier (because I'm already emotional.)  We're working opposite schedules, so I don't get to snuggle him nearly as much as I'd like.  And truth be told, our sex life never fully bounced back since FI's whole hydrocele problem. I know in the grand scheme of life, these are not big issues and are totally resolvable.  <strong>I just feel less connected to him than I typically do.</strong>  :(
Posted by loves2shop4shoes[/QUOTE]

Well that'll sh!t on your day right there. I feel the same way right now. BF and I have worked through a lot of stuff and we are a LOT better than we were a few weeks ago, but I also feel less connected. I think that kind of things goes in phases though, and it comes back around. The important thing is that it is being worked at and it is fixable.

ravenray

I'm so sorry everyone is having problems connecting. *group hug*  Sounds like we need some connecting time with the Bfs in our lives

[Deleted User]

we had a huge blow up fight last week, but it was more because I was on high estrogen BCP that made me go freaking insane.  I didn't even know what I was doing.  throwing things, crying, feeling light headed, having major nightsweats, gained like 5 pounds in a MONTH!!  thankfully FI dealt with it OK and I'm back on low estrogen and feeling much better.  FWIW, I still think he was a little insensitive to my raging hormones, but at least he didn't call off the engagement.    he definitely had the grounds!

becunning2

I love the love definition...

and HUGS TO EVERYONE who is going through a rough time.

*hugs to raven*

*hugs to shoes*

*hugs to coco*

*hugs to tafft*

*and hugs to anyone else I forgot or who is lurking and needs one*

ravenray

We clearly need water testing.  Maybe some chlorine to get rid of the bad stuff.    *Big Big group hug* 

desertsun

Sometimes it just takes time to let go of things, and all you can do meanwhile is just try to take care of each other, stay connected, and be in touch with your true feelings. Anger is often a response to feeling vulnerable or guilty. Make sure you're getting to the root of your own emotions so that when you talk to each other, you're able to be really open and honest, and addressing the real issues you have.

*hugs* to all of you having a rough time lately! this too shall pass, my friends.

polkadot111

This is soooo weird, because FI and I are going through the same stuff right now too. I too, just don't feel connected to him anymore like I did before. I'm tired of it, and I don't know what's up. I know I've been super busy lately with camp and we haven't been seeing each other much since we both are working tons (and after a full day of camp my voice is gone and I am exhausted). I just want it to be better.

Hugs all around.

ravenray

Update: (It is a good update too )

Talked to BF.  He apologies and admitted that he was wrong without any promoting on my part.  He asked what I thought love meant, he understands that we have slightly different views. I think he was just hurt that I hadn't forgotten about it (and he said that)  So we are mostly good now.  Just need to snuggle and everything will be alright.

More hugs for the other girls who are having tough spots!  *hugs*  You can make it through!!

marleylikeair

Hey Raven, I wasn't sure what to say on here, really, but I just wanted to give you big hugs. Glad to see your update that things are better.

::hugs:: to all of my fellow drinkers of the NEY water. I'm sure we're all going to come through having learned a lot and hopefully stronger than ever.

ravenray

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_water?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:dd861b06-4021-4129-b344-952ca53e310bPost:39930498-015c-4481-9f65-6252011f6e17">Re: It IS in the water</a>:
[QUOTE]Hey Raven, I wasn't sure what to say on here, really, but I just wanted to give you big hugs. Glad to see your update that things are better. :
Posted by marleylikeair[/QUOTE]
Aw thanks Marley.  That made my night :)