Sister wives?

crash2729

Exactly, What are the police going to do if they did pull up behind them while they were changing the tire? 

Tell them to go back home? 

Blueyed228

I think the reason they never showed the ceremony with the latest wife was to protect them from prosecution.

Even though there is the whole separation of church and state, I would imagine that a religious ceremony "marrying" him to another women would be proof enough that he committed polygamy.  Plus, they freely admit that they are all married to him.

I think its just one of those crimes that has a lot of gray area along with it.

jemmini6

It's not a lifestyle I would choose for myself, but I honestly don't see the problem with them.  They aren't like the Warren Jeffs polygamists where he forces 13 year old girls marry 50 year old dudes and have sex with them or anything. 

These women all chose this lifestyle, they are all adults, and their kids seem to be well taken care of (in fact, I think it's better that that amount of kids have 4 'moms' watching them rather than the Duggars who make the older kids watching the younger kids).

I honestly think the government needs to keep their noses out of marriage unless it breaks other laws (ie 13 year old being forced into marriage).  As long as the marriage is between consenting adults (gay or straight, one or 4) I don't see how it affects anyone else's lives.

sfennell1

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_sister-wives?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:100d2765-7e1f-4800-a8f9-2c03902f16b7Post:d02dd5cb-a3dc-493f-a7c0-7797415d0725">Re: Sister wives?</a>:
[QUOTE]It's not a lifestyle I would choose for myself, but I honestly don't see the problem with them.  They aren't like the Warren Jeffs polygamists where he forces 13 year old girls marry 50 year old dudes and have sex with them or anything.  These women all chose this lifestyle, they are all adults, and their kids seem to be well taken care of (in fact, I think it's better that that amount of kids have 4 'moms' watching them rather than the Duggars who make the older kids watching the younger kids). I honestly think the government needs to keep their noses out of marriage unless it breaks other laws (ie 13 year old being forced into marriage).  As long as the marriage is between consenting adults (gay or straight, one or 4) I don't see how it affects anyone else's lives.
Posted by jemmini6[/QUOTE]



Agree! Why does it matter?

There are plenty of men & women in this country cheating on boyfriends and girlfriend and it's not a crime. If consenting adults choose to live their lives this way then so be it. Who am I to judge.

Blueyed228

I think it matters because its illegal.

So instead of fighting the law by breaking the law, they might have a better shot at changing legislation.

I guess I compare it to say, speeding.  I can think the speed limit on a road needs to be changed.  But rather than continuing to break the law by speeding down that road, I would be better off trying to get the speed limit changed.  If that makes sense.

Personally, I dont care what consenting adults do as long as I dont have to support (financially) their lifestyle.  To each their own and all.  But I still dont think its ever right to break the law.

jemmini6

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_sister-wives?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:100d2765-7e1f-4800-a8f9-2c03902f16b7Post:3771de76-110a-4c01-a39b-35a934a2fa1c">Re: Sister wives?</a>:
[QUOTE]I think it matters because its illegal. So instead of fighting the law by breaking the law, they might have a better shot at changing legislation. I guess I compare it to say, speeding.  I can think the speed limit on a road needs to be changed.  But rather than continuing to break the law by speeding down that road, I would be better off trying to get the speed limit changed.  If that makes sense. Personally, I dont care what consenting adults do as long as I dont have to support (financially) their lifestyle.  To each their own and all.  But I still dont think its ever right to break the law.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]

I agree that the law should be changed.  I do think the show in general has done well that any legislation might have a better chance of actually passing because people had a chance to see what an actual polygamist household is like.

However, if he is only legally married to his first wife, I don't see how they are breaking the law.  Many homosexual couples still have commitment ceremonies and consider themselves married in states where gay marriage is illegal, but since their marriage isn't recognized by the state, they technically aren't breaking the law.  I don't see how that's very different than what they are doing.  They had a religious 'commitment' ceremony and consider themselves married, but for legal, government purposes, they aren't.

Blueyed228

He is only legally married to his first wife because no state will allow him to legally marry another women, lol.  So that is the problem they have charging him with anything. 

Im not well versed on the laws for each state, or the state that they live in, but if they have laws that get around the "legal marriage" part and define it as living with multiple women etc, then that is the law and if they dont like it, they should move like they are going to.

It is illegal however in many states to have sex with someone who is not your legal wife.  Its called adultery, and there is plenty of proof he has done that.

jaycee7389

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_sister-wives?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:100d2765-7e1f-4800-a8f9-2c03902f16b7Post:3771de76-110a-4c01-a39b-35a934a2fa1c">Re: Sister wives?</a>:
[QUOTE]I think it matters because its illegal. So instead of fighting the law by breaking the law, they might have a better shot at changing legislation. I guess I compare it to say, speeding.  I can think the speed limit on a road needs to be changed.  But rather than continuing to break the law by speeding down that road, I would be better off trying to get the speed limit changed.  If that makes sense. Personally, I dont care what consenting adults do as long as I dont have to support (financially) their lifestyle.  To each their own and all.  But I still dont think its ever right to break the law.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]

very well said

sfennell1

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_sister-wives?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:100d2765-7e1f-4800-a8f9-2c03902f16b7Post:3771de76-110a-4c01-a39b-35a934a2fa1c">Re: Sister wives?</a>:
[QUOTE]I think it matters because its illegal. So instead of fighting the law by breaking the law, they might have a better shot at changing legislation. I guess I compare it to say, speeding.  I can think the speed limit on a road needs to be changed.  But rather than continuing to break the law by speeding down that road, I would be better off trying to get the speed limit changed.  If that makes sense. Personally, I dont care what consenting adults do as long as I dont have to support (financially) their lifestyle.  To each their own and all.  But I still dont think its ever right to break the law.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]

What's illegal??? They haven't proved that he broke any laws hence he's not been charged.  Therefore, leave him and his family the hell alone

Wrkn925

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_sister-wives?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:100d2765-7e1f-4800-a8f9-2c03902f16b7Post:bb553dde-b463-4f1e-aca5-c9cf34ba3ec2">Re: Sister wives?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sister wives? : <strong>What's illegal???</strong> They haven't proved that he broke any laws hence he's not been charged.  Therefore, leave him and his family the hell alone
Posted by sfennell1[/QUOTE]

Copied from Utah.gov:
A person is guilty of bigamy when, knowing he has a husband or wife or knowing the other person has a husband or wife, the person purports to marry another person or <strong>cohabits</strong> with another person.

It's a third degree felony.

Wrkn925

I should add, from what I see on Sister Wives, everything looks perfectly acceptable. Everyone seems to be there willingly and the women married in at a proper age of consent.

From what I've read about past polygamist raids where 13yos were married off to 46yo men as their 7th wife, not cool.  The law is there in an effort to protect them.*

Also, it has been said that young men are often kicked out to keep more wives for elders.*

*-Things I've read in articles that I will not swear to be true.

jemmini6

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_sister-wives?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:100d2765-7e1f-4800-a8f9-2c03902f16b7Post:1c69646d-dd0b-4fb7-baa7-a90ccdb8b577">Re: Sister wives?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sister wives? : Copied from Utah.gov: A person is guilty of bigamy when, knowing he has a husband or wife or knowing the other person has a husband or wife, the person purports to marry another person or cohabits with another person. It's a third degree felony.
Posted by Wrkn925[/QUOTE]

That's a tough law to enforce though.  A coworker of mine and his wife have a roommate, so technically under that law (assuming they lived in Utah) they would be comitting a felony.  I mean, it's obvious based on the show that they are more than just roommates, but still, under the wording of that law in particular, they can't necessarily disprove that they aren't just roommates either (especially since that house was essentially 3 separate units, each with their own kitchens and living areas.

em01092

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_sister-wives?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:100d2765-7e1f-4800-a8f9-2c03902f16b7Post:1b7e07a0-0f02-43a0-929c-f27dc0f6b19e">Re: Sister wives?</a>:
[QUOTE]He is only legally married to his first wife because no state will allow him to legally marry another women, lol.  So that is the problem they have charging him with anything.  Im not well versed on the laws for each state, or the state that they live in, but if they have laws that get around the "legal marriage" part and define it as living with multiple women etc, then that is the law and if they dont like it, they should move like they are going to. <strong>It is illegal however in many states to have sex with someone who is not your legal wife.</strong>  Its called adultery, and there is plenty of proof he has done that.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]

<div>You're right, sex between unmarried people (fornication) is still on the books in some states, as is married people having extramarital affairs(adultery). I don't know if it is for them, or if it every was in Utah. I had to research this very aspect for my state, GA, and the last time a fornication charge was brought in my state was in the 1910s. I can't remember exactly about the last adultery, but I think it was in the 1940s. </div><div>
</div><div>Of course every state is different, but I think the point is that these things are never brought up anymore. DAs have more important things to spend time on, but I can see this guy being charged since it's a high profile incident with it being a TV show and everything.</div><div>
</div>

Blueyed228

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_sister-wives?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:100d2765-7e1f-4800-a8f9-2c03902f16b7Post:49cbd938-0e15-42a8-96c3-dba109f608f1">Re: Sister wives?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sister wives? : You're right, sex between unmarried people (fornication) is still on the books in some states, as is married people having extramarital affairs(adultery). I don't know if it is for them, or if it every was in Utah. I had to research this very aspect for my state, GA, and the last time a fornication charge was brought in my state was in the 1910s. I can't remember exactly about the last adultery, but I think it was in the 1940s.  Of course every state is different, but I think the point is that these things are never brought up anymore. DAs have more important things to spend time on, but I can see this guy being charged since it's a high profile incident with it being a TV show and everything.
Posted by em01092[/QUOTE]

I think that is why we don't hear much about people being prosecuted for it. But I do think shoving your illegal acts in the polices face is just asking for trouble. Like I said, to each their own. But they can't be THAT surprised that the police are taking notice.

Blueyed228

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_sister-wives?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:100d2765-7e1f-4800-a8f9-2c03902f16b7Post:bb553dde-b463-4f1e-aca5-c9cf34ba3ec2">Re: Sister wives?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sister wives? : What's illegal??? They haven't proved that he broke any laws hence he's not been charged.  Therefore, leave him and his family the hell alone
Posted by sfennell1[/QUOTE]

Umm ok. You seem awful invested in this. PP already pointed out the law so ill just leave it at that. Post and run. off to work.

pearlaqua

Since they RARELY go after adults (not Warren Jeffs-types) in polygamous marriages, why the drama on this episode, then?  It was really weird to me listening to the suspenseful music when in reality I felt like the stakes weren't very high.

And yes, the Brown family seems to be a great example of polygamy harming no one.  I agree they should probably be left alone.

BUT given that polygamy seems to be equated with incest/child abuse, I don't think the state of Utah can really be faulted for hearing about a high-profile family who goes on TV and not even LOOKING to see if anything is untoward.

Think about it: Many polygamous leaders are egomaniacs who think they are above the law. If you worked for the city of Lehi in the police department and heard there was a surfer-dude, Lexus-driving, polygamous man brazenly going on TV to tell his tale, you might think he was an egomaniac.

Given that they found nothing really wrong with the family, the city/state has dropped their investigation.

So why the drama on this episode? Annoying!

Also: Many polygamous families abuse the welfare system because all but wife #1 are technically "single mothers", which is fraud.

Birdie1483

I actually think they didn't show the 4th wife's ceremony because at least with mainstream polygamy, only Mormons are allowed in the temple. I'm not sure if the Browns sect (they aren't FLDS, but something similar) have their own special temple, but I would assume they would have the same religious laws about who can enter and be present.

And I agree about them having to not be THAT surprised. I mean, what did they think would happen? You can't be a crack dealer and brag on national television about currently selling crack without the police coming after you. I think the prosecutor has even stated before that unless there is an allegation of abuse of some sort, these things aren't normally investigated but when they went on tv they forced his hand. He can't just sit around and not look into it without possible public outcry and backlash.

OutOfTheBlue612

Some people say that they should be prosecuted now that it's public knowledge, even though the prosecutors wouldn't have sought them out the prosecute because it's an antiquated law.

But as people have pointed out, multiple states still have laws where fornication and adultery are illegal. Plenty of "real" celebrities and politicians (not just reality show stars) have openly flouted these laws. Now I'm sure of the overlap between these cases and people living in states where this is still on the books. But odds are, it's hpaeened. So why is that case different to the American legal system and public? It's interesting.

Birdie1483

Also, we can't begin to know what Utah as a state faces when dealing with these families financially unless we lived there and were involved in politics. I'm sure these laws are still in effect to prevent fraud and government assistance abuse as well as child endangerment and all of that jazz from the crazy sects (even that part is not always enforced).  The Browns may not do it, but many others I'm sure do.

Birdie1483

I can only imagine how bogged down our judicial system would be and how much taxpayers money would be wasted trying to track down every Tom that cheats on his wife.

Polygamy is a hot button issue for a lot of people, especially in that part of the country. I'm not surprised it was "investigated" when a lot of other law breakers are not.

pearlaqua

I would love to see the Brown wives on "Extreme Couponing".  

It's a perfect cross-promotion fit!!

crash2729

I didn't even think about the possible welfare/tax abuses that could occur in that situation. 

I wonder how they handle that at tax time though. Probably each mother claims their own kids? 

But, when you flaunt that you're breaking a law on national TV, I don't understand why they were so surprised they got investigated. However, I don't think it was right for Meri to get fired over it...

jaycee7389

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_sister-wives?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:100d2765-7e1f-4800-a8f9-2c03902f16b7Post:18c9483f-7f17-40b3-8b2f-26fe8bafe4b2">Re: Sister wives?</a>:
[QUOTE]I didn't even think about the possible welfare/tax abuses that could occur in that situation.  I wonder how they handle that at tax time though. Probably each mother claims their own kids?  But, when you flaunt that you're breaking a law on national TV, I don't understand why they were so surprised they got investigated. However, <strong>I don't think it was right for Meri to get fired over it...</strong>
Posted by crash2729[/QUOTE]


i wonder if technically meri is the only one not breaking any laws considering she is legally married to kody, and he and the other wives are committing adultery etc.

pearlaqua

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_sister-wives?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:100d2765-7e1f-4800-a8f9-2c03902f16b7Post:18c9483f-7f17-40b3-8b2f-26fe8bafe4b2">Re: Sister wives?</a>:
[QUOTE]I didn't even think about the possible welfare/tax abuses that could occur in that situation.  I wonder how they handle that at tax time though. Probably each mother claims their own kids?  But, when you flaunt that you're breaking a law on national TV, I don't understand why they were so surprised they got investigated. <strong>However, I don't think it was right for Meri to get fired over it...</strong>
Posted by crash2729[/QUOTE]

<div>She wasn't fired for being in a polygamous relationship, her employer knew about her marriage arrangement.</div><div>
</div><div>She was fired for being on TV.  I'm sure employers include clauses about behavior that would reflect poorly on them being grounds for firing.  Employing someone who is complicit in breaking the law could fit that bill.</div><div>
</div>

crash2729

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_sister-wives?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:100d2765-7e1f-4800-a8f9-2c03902f16b7Post:86ffb57a-c695-4237-8092-df571cc2213e">Re: Sister wives?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sister wives? : She wasn't fired for being in a polygamous relationship, her employer knew about her marriage arrangement. She was fired for being on TV.  I'm sure employers include clauses about behavior that would reflect poorly on them being grounds for firing.  Employing someone who is complicit in breaking the law could fit that bill.
Posted by pearlaqua[/QUOTE]

<div>That's not the way she presented in the show..or in the other interview I saw her do. (I think it was GMA).</div><div>
</div><div>But, if it's true the boss knew about the arrangement, then why would he fire her over doing it on TV? On TV or not it's still breaking the law.</div><div>
</div><div>I'm sure if anything it was more just the being on TV part...because I think anything else would be discrimination..no?</div>

pearlaqua

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_sister-wives?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:100d2765-7e1f-4800-a8f9-2c03902f16b7Post:f50eb976-e77e-4048-8ccf-7224b14e6884">Re: Sister wives?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sister wives? : That's not the way she presented in the show..or in the other interview I saw her do. (I think it was GMA). But, if it's true the boss knew about the arrangement, then why would he fire her over doing it on TV? On TV or not it's still breaking the law. I'm sure if anything it was more just the being on TV part...because I think anything else would be discrimination..no?
Posted by crash2729[/QUOTE]

<div>It's not discriminatory to fire someone because they are breaking the law.</div><div>
</div><div>Employers also have a lot of leeway in firing people when it will make their business look bad.</div><div>
</div><div>Meri doesn't say who she worked for, just that it was in the mental health field.  It could be a small company that didn't want their business adversely affected in polygamy-adverse Salt Lake City.  Although Mormons founded the town, they no longer practice practice polygamy and the Browns are definitely odd in their lifestyle choice.  Big Love and this show make it seem like polygamy is wink wink everywhere but it's really pretty rare and if Meri's boss didn't think her private life would affect their business until it was a national TV sensation, then that is his prerogative. </div><div>
</div><div>Meri, Janelle, and Kody (the only working adults in the household) all said that their employers knew about their family before the TV show aired and that they only saw repercussions after the show was on TV.  Kody said that his accounts (he's in advertising) were affected, too.</div>

Cynthiajt1

I think they should be left alone. They are taking care of their kids. They all seem happy with their day to day lives and their not hurting anyone. With Kody's last wife, he married a women who had a bunch of kids and no husbend. He is doing a great thing by giving the kids a dad and providing for them.

Wrkn925

Meri worked counseling at-risk youth.  Teens, I think.

From what I've gathered, her appearance on GMA and SW made the teens more interested in discussing her life and made it harder for her to work with them?

allisong23

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_sister-wives?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:100d2765-7e1f-4800-a8f9-2c03902f16b7Post:d9a7abdc-3607-4437-abc0-7a36ca48f2f2">Re: Sister wives?</a>:
[QUOTE]I think they should be left alone. They are taking care of their kids. They all seem happy with their day to day lives and their not hurting anyone. <strong>With Kody's last wife, he married a women who had a bunch of kids and no husbend. He is doing a great thing by giving the kids a dad and providing for them.</strong>
Posted by Cynthiajt1[/QUOTE]

Umm, I don't know where to start with this, so i will start here - you spelled "husband" wrong.

There are MANY single moms that do a great job raising their kids without a husband. In many situations, they are better off without them.

Blueyed228

<p>In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_sister-wives?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:100d2765-7e1f-4800-a8f9-2c03902f16b7Post:d9a7abdc-3607-4437-abc0-7a36ca48f2f2">Re: Sister wives?</a>:
[QUOTE]I think they should be left alone. They are taking care of their kids. They all seem happy with their day to day lives and their not hurting anyone. With Kody's last wife, he married a women who had a bunch of kids and no husbend. He is doing a great thing by giving the kids a dad and<strong><u> providing for them.
</u></strong>Posted by Cynthiajt1[/QUOTE]

I would love to know if that is entirely true.  It would seem difficult to financially support all of those kids on his own.  I wonder if they use government assistance.</p>