Burn the Stars and Stripes

Shaye526

I came across this article about an extreme Muslim group in the UK that wants Muslims to burn American flags on 9/11 in retaliation to the Pastor who's planning on burning the Koran.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-20015919-503543.html?tag=stack

What do you all think of this? I worry that WWIII is going to start any day now...

annaV2oskar

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_burn-stars-stripes?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:8e3659c2-aad2-40f5-b887-92fedf47d5bcPost:91b2366f-c7e3-4c7f-97a8-81bfd7695bc5">Burn the Stars and Stripes</a>:
[QUOTE]I came across this article about an extreme Muslim group in the UK that wants Muslims to burn American flags on 9/11 in retaliation to the Pastor who's planning on burning the Koran. <a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-20015919-503543.html?tag=stack" rel="nofollow">http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-20015919-503543.html?tag=stack</a> What do you all think of this? I worry that WWIII is going to start any day now...
Posted by Shaye526[/QUOTE]

#1  i don't have to like it, but it's their right.  I wish someone would slap some holy sense into that pastor though

#2  WWIII will be all nukes.  I don't think you'll even see it coming.  No need to worry about it.  Just a flash of light and done.

SarahPLiz

I think its all bullshit.

We ALL know the way to gain respect for our own beliefs is to desecrate others', right? 

vegasgroom

What I'd like to see burned are the people in that religious cult who protest at military funerals.

Shaye526

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_burn-stars-stripes?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:8e3659c2-aad2-40f5-b887-92fedf47d5bcPost:b6eae827-a38a-4f2e-8ca4-e6321a32723e">Re: Burn the Stars and Stripes</a>:
[QUOTE]What I'd like to see burned are the people in that religious cult who protest at military funerals.
Posted by vegasgroom[/QUOTE]

Yes. I think that anyone who needs to burn something to prove a point should set themselves on fire and burn for the cause, instead of just half-assing it.

Anysunrise

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_burn-stars-stripes?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:8e3659c2-aad2-40f5-b887-92fedf47d5bcPost:f72a5f85-8dfa-4aee-8ba6-a1b49c7d2773">Re: Burn the Stars and Stripes</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Burn the Stars and Stripes : According to the pastor who planned it they're burning the Koran to show that the Muslim religion is based in acts of violence (not saying I agree, just saying what I read).
Posted by betrothed123[/QUOTE]

Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

Shaye526

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_burn-stars-stripes?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:8e3659c2-aad2-40f5-b887-92fedf47d5bcPost:ac1a2ec5-4855-41e0-96b3-3bc36d1c633a">Re: Burn the Stars and Stripes</a>:
[QUOTE]What does this Kuran-burning pastor think he's going to accomplish? It's only going to make extremists mad and then innocent civilians and American (and other) troops are going to be hurt or killed. And the US flag burning is only going to incite more had and misunderstanding and intolerance. FFS, people (not you all, people of the world) it's not that hard to figure out!<strong> I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS!</strong>
Posted by maratea[/QUOTE]



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maratea

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_burn-stars-stripes?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:8e3659c2-aad2-40f5-b887-92fedf47d5bcPost:f72a5f85-8dfa-4aee-8ba6-a1b49c7d2773">Re: Burn the Stars and Stripes</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Burn the Stars and Stripes : According to the pastor who planned it they're burning the Koran to show that the Muslim religion is based in acts of violence (not saying I agree, just saying what I read).
Posted by betrothed123[/QUOTE]

Huh. That's, uh, something. I refuse to read anything about that guy because I know I will go crazy with anger. Sorry I'm not educating myself about this situation, but I just can't do it.

I'd also like to see someone burn the Bible and make the same point about most of Christian history being based on violence. That pastor would be all up in there with a fire extinguisher and finger wagging.

bethsmiles

Are generalizations awesome? I'm pissed that the church is FL is going to burn Koran and I've been extremely vocal about it. But hey burn the American flag because nobody has spoken out against it and of course all Americans hate Muslims.

This pisses me off just as much as the church in FL.

But just like the church in FL has the right to burn Korans if they want to this extreme Muslim group can burn American flags if they want.

laurenclaire1386

While I think it's all in poor taste and completely useless, burning flags and Korans are both things that are protected under first amenment, at least in the US anyway. I'm woefully ignorant of the UK's system of government. I mean, I know they have a symbolic monarch and Parliament, but I have no idea if they have something like our constitution. Again, I don't agree with either group's sentiments, but I will defend their right to do it.

Anysunrise

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_burn-stars-stripes?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:8e3659c2-aad2-40f5-b887-92fedf47d5bcPost:2ece14a2-b257-4379-a0cf-c09c7d091fdc">Re: Burn the Stars and Stripes</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Burn the Stars and Stripes : Huh. That's, uh, something. I refuse to read anything about that guy because I know I will go crazy with anger. Sorry I'm not educating myself about this situation, but I just can't do it. <strong>I'd also like to see someone burn the Bible and make the same point about most of Christian history being based on violence.</strong> That pastor would be all up in there with a fire extinguisher and finger wagging.
Posted by maratea[/QUOTE]

This would be a more approriate and effective retaliation imo.

ETA: Not that I'm advocating it, but they are escalating the situation by now attacking a whole country whose inhabitants for the most part(I would hope) don't agree with this pastor's methods.

pirategal03

That "church" in Florida.  It has less than 50 members.  They're burning the Qur'an because they're ignorant and scared.  I said it the other day and I still believe it, it's ridiculous. 

I wish "we" (the general we) would stop focusing on it.  The act should be shunned.  It's crazy that 50 outliers in Florida can gather this much international attention. 

Jelenny

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_burn-stars-stripes?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:8e3659c2-aad2-40f5-b887-92fedf47d5bcPost:7183e0ca-16f8-4307-a66a-daa52dbd09b8">Re: Burn the Stars and Stripes</a>:
[QUOTE]I think its all bullshit. We ALL know the way to gain respect for our own beliefs is to desecrate others', right? 
Posted by SarahPLiz[/QUOTE]

THIS

I get so frustrated with people being so close-minded and extreme....and yet these same people will blow up and get so upset if someone were to burn something we hold as sacred.

bethsmiles

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_burn-stars-stripes?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:8e3659c2-aad2-40f5-b887-92fedf47d5bcPost:2ece14a2-b257-4379-a0cf-c09c7d091fdc">Re: Burn the Stars and Stripes</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Burn the Stars and Stripes : Huh. That's, uh, something. I refuse to read anything about that guy because I know I will go crazy with anger. Sorry I'm not educating myself about this situation, but I just can't do it. <strong>I'd also like to see someone burn the Bible and make the same point about most of Christian history being based on violence. That pastor would be all up in there with a fire extinguisher and finger wagging.</strong>
Posted by maratea[/QUOTE]

statements like this aren't helpful to the situation either though. It's a bit hypocritical to be so mad about people burning the Koran if you are ok with people burning the Bible. All religions and cultures should attempt to be understanding and tolerant of one another.

ohwhynot

It doesn't affect me personally, because I don't buy into the symbolism.  Bible, flag, Koran, my children's pictures - it's just a symbol, go ahead and burn it.  I honestly don't care.  


But a lot of people do, so it's offensive to them.  That's the whole point - they're offending me, so I'm going to offend them.   Neener, neener, neener.  It sucks that this kind of silliness is so effective at inciting rage. 

Shaye526

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_burn-stars-stripes?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:8e3659c2-aad2-40f5-b887-92fedf47d5bcPost:51851ccd-580e-4ade-ad4c-493485849deb">Re: Burn the Stars and Stripes</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Burn the Stars and Stripes : statements like this aren't helpful to the situation either though. It's a bit hypocritical to be so mad about people burning the Koran if you are ok with people burning the Bible. All religions and cultures should attempt to be understanding and tolerant of one another.
Posted by bethsmiles[/QUOTE]

I could be worng but I don't think Mara was saying that she's ok with people burning the bible. I think she was pointing out that this Pastor is ok with burning the Koran but would probably have a huge issue if a group started burning bibles to show that the Christian religion has been violent at times.

kpwedkk

There will be an increase in smog on that day... All this burning, why, and to what purpose? To get each other mad?

We are all related in some shape or fashion, else we wouldn't have a head, 2 feet, 2 arms, 5 fingers on each hand...  Our beliefs are different, and that difference adds to the melting pot of society.  We strive to be happy, not to put other people down, and not to cause pain and suffering!!

What if we make a bold move, and do a good deed on Saturday, amongst all of this craziness?  Hug your dear ones, love living your life, and move forward

I love and respect all of you, you bring perspectives to the hot topic at hand, we each get a point of view, and have a learning experience!

It's surely a jungle out there!

maratea

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_burn-stars-stripes?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:8e3659c2-aad2-40f5-b887-92fedf47d5bcPost:51851ccd-580e-4ade-ad4c-493485849deb">Re: Burn the Stars and Stripes</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Burn the Stars and Stripes : statements like this aren't helpful to the situation either though. It's a bit hypocritical to be so mad about people burning the Koran if you are ok with people burning the Bible. All religions and cultures should attempt to be understanding and tolerant of one another.
Posted by bethsmiles[/QUOTE]

I'm not advocating burning the Bible, in fact I'd be rather upset if that happened. But, I wonder what the reaction (media, religious, etc.) would be if it happened.

I don't think one culture/religion/group has the right to tell another group it's practices are unethical or wrong. Just like I don't think France has the right to ban burkas. It's these women's culture; it's what they choose to do. People view the Islamic culture as oppressive to women- yes it is, but it's their culture and outsiders don't have the right to tell them what to do. It would be like some Christian group trying to ban Jewish men from wearing yarmulkes because (and I don't believe this, so don't flame me), "The Jews killed Jesus". (Again don't hurt me, I'm just making a scenario.)

AllAboutTheBenjamin

I think this entire situation is so stupid. 

I mean sure - publicly burning holy books is in bad taste and all, and it IS their right - but is this the first time this has ever happened?  Doubtful.

I blame the media for hyping this up and continuing to talk about it and pissing everyone off on both sides.  Everyone's getting riled up.  It's just dumb.  If some church wants to burn the Koran - then that is their ill-advised right - but the minute we start paying attention to it and letting the media firestorm erupt around it, then people on the other side of the world (and here too of course) get even more pissed off, there's fear of retaliation, and everyone wants to point the finger and blame the crazy pastor.

Yes the pastor is crazy.  But if the media would quit running with the story like it's the fucking second coming of Anna Nicole Smith then no one would even know about it or give a shiit.

merivale87

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_burn-stars-stripes?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:8e3659c2-aad2-40f5-b887-92fedf47d5bcPost:caf32edc-d243-4ac6-866a-9e4575454fcd">Re: Burn the Stars and Stripes</a>:
[QUOTE]That "church" in Florida.  It has less than 50 members.  They're burning the Qur'an because they're ignorant and scared.  I said it the other day and I still believe it, it's ridiculous.  I wish "we" (the general we) would stop focusing on it.  The act should be shunned.  It's crazy that 50 outliers in Florida can gather this much international attention. 
Posted by pirategal03[/QUOTE]

I agree. From the beginning of this, I have maintained my belief that giving them attention only gives them more power. If this small church has gotten all this attention, who's to say other groups won't try similar acts to demonstrate hate for other religions or groups of people (such as the flag burning).

aplatanada

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_burn-stars-stripes?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:8e3659c2-aad2-40f5-b887-92fedf47d5bcPost:1c5c9133-ad74-427f-b64a-f46710db5c35">Re: Burn the Stars and Stripes</a>:
[QUOTE]While I think it's all in poor taste and completely useless, burning flags and Korans are both things that are protected under first amenment, at least in the US anyway. I'm woefully ignorant of the UK's system of government. I mean, I know they have a symbolic monarch and Parliament, but I have no idea if they have something like our constitution. Again, I don't agree with either group's sentiments, but I will defend their right to do it.
Posted by laurenclaire1386[/QUOTE]

From what I've read, they have been denied the local permits necessary to have a public bonfire- something to do with the fire safety plans (or lackthereof).  So technically, they don't have the legal right to do it at all. The "pastor" has said that he will procede anyway, to make his point.

I'm not questioning their right to do something like this, but if they're going to do it, it must be done through legal channels.

Celles

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_burn-stars-stripes?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:8e3659c2-aad2-40f5-b887-92fedf47d5bcPost:a4598057-93aa-4d26-a92c-e602739aadfd">Re: Burn the Stars and Stripes</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Burn the Stars and Stripes : This would be a more approriate and effective retaliation imo. ETA: Not that I'm advocating it, but they are escalating the situation by now attacking a whole country whose inhabitants for the most part(I would hope) don't agree with this pastor's methods.
Posted by Anysunrise[/QUOTE]

This was my first thought, too.  If you're going to burn <em>something</em> in retaliation, burn a Bible.  At least that's apples to apples.  The flag is a symbol of the country as a whole, and the country as a whole certainly does not condone this (beyond upholding everyone's First Amendment rights, as it should).

ohwhynot

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_burn-stars-stripes?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:8e3659c2-aad2-40f5-b887-92fedf47d5bcPost:13aa011c-4858-449c-b40c-6e6daff6b04f">Re: Burn the Stars and Stripes</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Burn the Stars and Stripes : From what I've read, they have been denied the local permits necessary to have a public bonfire- something to do with the fire safety plans (or lackthereof).  So technically, they don't have the legal right to do it at all. The "pastor" has said that he will procede anyway, to make his point. I'm not questioning their right to do something like this, but if they're going to do it, it must be done through legal channels.
Posted by aplatanada[/QUOTE]


Eh, I think that's a silly argument.  Political speech is THE most highly protected kind - he's not having a public bonfire by burning one koran in, say, a cast iron pot or something like that.   He's not having a parade or disrupting traffic.  

If he was fined or something for having his stupid little protest and took that to court on first amendment grounds, he'd almost certainly win. 

Lenore2010

It seems like everyone has a giant belly full of ugly.

This whole book burning, flag burning deal reminds me that just because you have a right to do something does not mean you SHOULD do it.

My favorite post 911 bumper sticker:

"The world did not change after 911. You did".

missy68

The irony of burning the flag in protest is that is the only truly acceptable way to dispose of an American flag.

I also think maybe people ought to read the Quran instead of tidbits about it. I haven't done so, but I know some who have. At one point, it was a required reading book for a then-local college for the freshman class, so they understood another point of view. On the same level, I think people ought to read the Bible as a book and get a perspective from that point of view.

Celles

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_burn-stars-stripes?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:8e3659c2-aad2-40f5-b887-92fedf47d5bcPost:be336ef3-61fa-4512-acf3-7bec6ed1c6a1">Re: Burn the Stars and Stripes</a>:
[QUOTE]i don't care who burns what where and i wish people would quit making a huge deal out of it. whoever lives next to the church should burn some bibles so everybody can call it even and move past it. books are books. i do, however, laugh when i see people who are up in arms in support of the right to build the Muslim religious center near ground zero but who don't think this church should have the right to burn the Korans. likewise, i laugh when people who want the government to prevent the NYC religious center from being erected scream about how the FL church has the right to burn the books. really, people? how about some consistency? you can't pick and choose how the law should be enforced based upon how you feel about different groups.
Posted by SarahSmile23[/QUOTE]

Amen!

... except while I recognize that the church has the right to burn the Koran, I think it's hugely irresponsible to exercise that right.  As someone else said, just because you have the right to do something, doesn't mean you should. 

SarahSmile23

yeah, it's irresponsible and would be kinder to not burn the books and avoid hurting feelings. but if we go with that reasoning, the muslim center should be built elsewhere to avoid hurting feelings.

basically, we are eye to eye on it, though! and i hate being in the same state in which that this craziness is happening.

Celles

Tell me about it!  That's exactly how I feel about being in Arizona in the middle of the immigration debate.

I do think there's a difference between Muslims peacefully practicing their religion in the shadow of the (once and future) WTC, and between a few fanatical Christians burning the Koran in protest of...  something.  (Violence, I think.)  The former aren't trying to offend anyone, but the latter most definitely are. 

Still, I agree in principle.  Freedom of speech and religion are an all or nothing deal; you don't get to invoke them selectively, when it suits you, and ignore them when it doesn't.

Istremene

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_burn-stars-stripes?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:8e3659c2-aad2-40f5-b887-92fedf47d5bcPost:a0193c45-c76b-451a-823c-3d62eaaffd07">Re: Burn the Stars and Stripes</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Burn the Stars and Stripes : Amen! ... except while I recognize that the church has the right to burn the Koran, I think it's hugely irresponsible to exercise that right.  As someone else said, just because you have the right to do something, doesn't mean you should. 
Posted by Celles[/QUOTE]

This.

And it scares me that the pastor is a spiritual advisor to a congregation.  His sermons must be...interesting.