annulment

nmauser82

Has anyone here had one? What was the process like? This will be my second marriage and his first. I am not catholic but my fiance is and I never got an annulment after my divorce. I did some research online but all I have found is the church's point of view on it. I know that it can take a year or longer and can be a bit expensive. And we have a backup plan in case we can't get married in the church.

We are trying to set up an apointment with the church to discuss all of this but I just wanted the perspective of someone who has been through it. I am nervous about it, like they will tell me that I am not worthy or something. It has taken me a long time to work through the pain and embarassment of the divorce. I'm still not completely over it, and I worry that it will dig up all of that old hurt. I am finally at a point in my life where I want to move on and be happy.

My Fiance is very supportive and understsands my feelings on this. He is more than happy to have a civil ceremony if it comes to it. The last thing he wants is for me to feel upset. His parents are the ones pushing for the catholic ceremony so we are looking into it.

Was the process as bad as I am envisioning it? Or was it releasing in a way? Does that make sense? Anyway, I am just looking for other experiences and advice on what to expect.

Thanks ladies.

SweetestofMuses

I had one the first time, but it was a legal issue instead of a church issue. We didn't get an official papal annulment because we didn't get married in a church to begin with and he was the one that was Catholic, not me.

I would go to your parish priest and ask about it and see what the process is. I do know that it takes about a year for the papal annulment. My annulment took about as long as a divorce would have taken. Shorter I think because we weren't married that long.

Sorry if this is no help.

KRPadilla

I would talk to your local priest.  I had a two year marriage.  But, we had a child.  Our annulment was some paperwork, fees and jumping thru all the hoops with the church.  My ex-husband and I were planning our second weddings at the same time except, I have pushed mine back a year.  So, his wedding took place and then the annulment was a non-issue and just a formality.  We were married two years and he was already re-married, and there isn't much argument for the church to have over that.

Just relax and talk to your priest.  I found the church easy to work with and extremely supportive.

2dBride

You definitely need to talk to the priest.  However, here is a quick summary:

The Archdiocese of Boston, reports that a typical annulment takes about one year to complete. It costs about $900 of which the petitioner is expected to pay about half. Contrary to common rumors, the Church loses millions of dollars a year in the granting of annulments. "The process is involved. The Petitioner is asked to submit detailed testimony. The tribunal contacts the former spouse. Witnesses are required. An expert in the field of psychology may be required for an assessment. It is not an easy process. However, it is not impossible either."

The other thing to understand about a Catholic annulment is that unlike a divorce, it is not based on anything that happens after the marriage, except insofar as what happens later casts doubt on the initial validity of the marriage.  For example, adultery is not directly grounds for an annulment.  Instead, the adultery could be used only to help prove that, at the time of the marriage, the spouse who later committed adultery did not "understand the nature of marriage: that it is permanent, that they are to remain monogamous, that they are open to having children, etc."

HTH!

Sue-n-Kevin

I guess I'm not understanding something here. You are not Catholic. Was your first wedding in a Catholic Church? Are you converting to Catholism?

If it is your fiance's first marriage, and HE is the one that is Catholic, you don't need an annulment unless either of the first two items apply.

I'm Catholic, never been married. My fiance has been divorced twice, neither of the weddings in the Catholic Church. We could have had our wedding in a Catholic Church if we'd wanted to. We just would have had to agree to raise our children in the Catholic Church, which is a laugh because I'm post-menopausal, and he's had a vasectomy!

I can't speak to the annulment process, but don't want you to sweat about something you may not need either.

jaimed99

I'm with Sue-n-Kevin here...if you weren't married in the Catholic Church the first time, by Catholic rules, it didn't even happen.  I've been married twice, neither time in a church ceremony (first was JP, second was self-performed) and when my second ex and I split up, my grandmother joked with me (she is a very strict Irish-Catholic) and said that when my FI and I get married, if we were to do it in a church, my previous marriages wouldn't even count against me.

If your first marriage wasn't "overseen" by the Catholic Church, there is no need for annulment...you're already legally divorced, and that's all you really need as far as that goes.

2dBride

Actually, if the nonCatholic partner was the one previously married, he will need to go through with an annulment.  By contrast, if the Catholic partner was previously married outside of the church (in a civil ceremony, or a ceremony of another religion without the Catholic Church's consent), getting an annulment is typically easy.

From the Catholic Update:

3 How can you require an intended spouse who is not a Catholic to endure this annulment process?

 In simplest terms, if a Catholic wishes to marry in the Church when there has been a previous marriage, then either one of the partners in the earlier union must have died or the Church must have issued a declaration of nullity, an annulment of that previous marriage. Why is this so?

The Catholic Church views all marriages with respect. It presumes that they are true or valid. Thus, it considers the marriages, for example, of two Protestant, Jewish or even nonbelieving persons to be binding in the eyes of God, unions covered by the words of Christ about divorce. Consequently, it requires a Church annulment process to establish that an essential ingredient in the relationship was missing from the start of the previous marriage.

Such a requirement often represents an unpleasant challenge to Protestant, Jewish or nonbelieving persons who wish to marry a Catholic after the civil termination of a previous marriage. They may have no difficulty with remarriage after divorce and even feel resentful about the prospects of a Roman Catholic formal annulment procedure.

I would never try to explain or resolve this thorny and emotional issue over the telephone, but only face-to-face. The explanations above may help to clarify the issue, but negative feelings often remain. After hearing their often painful stories and explaining the Church’s procedures, I offer a comment along these lines: “The only reason you would go through this process is out of love for your prospective marriage partner. Without the annulment, marriage in the Church is not validly possible. This is a prospect that will trouble your intended spouse now and in the future. For you to complete the procedure would be a great act of self-giving love.”

 

jaimed99, what your grandmother said would be mostly true, if you were a Catholic at the time of your prior marriages.  Under those circumstances, you could likely get an annulment within a few days, after almost no procedure.  The reason for this is that if a Catholic gets married outside of the Catholic church, without special permission from the church, the marriage is presumed invalid.  However, if two people who are not Catholic are married, either in a civil ceremony or in a nonCatholic religious ceremony, they are presumed to be validly married and thus need to go through the full annulment process.

right1thistime

I agree 100% with 2d.  In order to have a valid marriage in the Catholic Church - BOTH parties must be (what the Church considers) able to enter into a valid marriage.  I was Catholic, and thought about getting an annulment.  What stopped me was the requirement for DH to also get an annulment.  He is not Catholic, his xW was not Catholic and had been divorced- and it would have meant a ridiculous amount of hoop jumping through.  (That is solely our opinion of our situation.)  Because he had been married in a Christian church in a Christian ceremony, the Church considers him to be still married to her. 

So, sorry Jaime, but your gramma isn't correct.    ~Donna

jaimed99

No one's perfect, lol...and it wouldn't be the first time she was wrong!

I don't plan to be married in the Catholic Church regardless, but sorry my input didn't help!

Sue-n-Kevin

Wow, that's all news to me. I wonder if it differs from Archdiocese to Archdiocese, or even church to church?

The reason I say this is because I'm Catholic, had all the sacraments, yet was an unmarried mom.............twice! Both my children were baptized in the Catholic Church, yet my daughter's aunt & uncle couldn't get their kids baptized at THEIR Catholic church until they were married.

So, nmauser82, I guess you have to do more research. Not sure how the Catholic Churches in your area view all this.

FWIW, we have a Catholic deacon who lives across the street from my fiance's Mom, and he's doing the ceremony........ not "Catholic Church seal of approval", but a Catholic -like service.

amazonrt

I'm just beginning this process myself for my second marriage (my fiance's 1st). We are both Catholic and he works for the diocese in our area. I, too, am very nervous about the interviews and the possibility that I could be told "sorry- not granted". 
I hope that all goes well for you in your process.
Darlene

M&Mf4me

I've had an annulment in the Catholic Church, and I'm waiting for my fiancee's annulment to be finished.   The only thing I can warn you is this takes a while, depending on the diocese you are in.  In the diocese I'm in it's taken 2 years for mine, and we are coming up on 2 years for his in October.  However I heard of annulments in two surrounding diocese taking less than six months. 

However technically it makes "sense" that a marriage not in a Catholic church is not valid, and shouldn't need an annulment they do.   My fiancee was married outside the church and became Catholic later is still waiting for his.  If you want more info please contact me privately.  I've navigated these waters for the last 3 years up close and in person.

Shell.

NJ Jen

You know, the unfortunate fact is that so much varies from diocese to diocese - I met with a priest, got the documentation, and heard the precise info about the process from my diocese. I'd hang on until you have that meeting with your parish priest.

From what I saw - first was a  Catholic marriage - the financial cost is nothing compared to the paperwork.

mswood1977

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_second-weddings_annulment-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:35Discussion:d411d3b2-9400-4f6e-aee2-cb67a061bdf7Post:89aaa32e-b9a6-48fd-aedb-509aea5de531">Re: annulment</a>:
[QUOTE]I guess I'm not understanding something here. You are not Catholic. Was your first wedding in a Catholic Church? Are you converting to Catholism? If it is your fiance's first marriage, and HE is the one that is Catholic, you don't need an annulment unless either of the first two items apply. I'm Catholic, never been married. My fiance has been divorced twice, neither of the weddings in the Catholic Church. We could have had our wedding in a Catholic Church if we'd wanted to. We just would have had to agree to raise our children in the Catholic Church, which is a laugh because I'm post-menopausal, and he's had a vasectomy! I can't speak to the annulment process, but don't want you to sweat about something you may not need either.
Posted by Sue-n-Kevin[/QUOTE]

Actually if she wants to marry a catholic in the Catholic church and have the marriage be considered valid by the Catholic church then she needs an annulment even if this is his first marriage and she is not catholic.  In the eyes of the church she is still married to her first husband despite the civil divorce.  This also means that your fiancee is still married to his first spouse in the eyes of the church.  Is your priest aware of his previous marrages?   

right1thistime

Jaime - Sorry if that sounded snarky.  I wasn't trying to be.  I bet my mother would say the same thing as your gram.  She almost wasn't going to go to my brother's JP wedding or to my non-denominational (but Christian) wedding, because she was taught that any wedding that did not occur in the CAtholic church was not a "true wedding" and that Catholics should not attend because that gave the impression that you approved of these two people "pretending to get married."  That is truly what my mother was taught by the oh so tolerant Catholic church.   All the Hindus, Jews, Muslims, atheists, pagans, and those terrible Protestants were just living in sin! 

By the way, I told her God would be mad at her if she missed her son's wedding or her daughter's wedding, and that she'd best be there or risk making God mad.  She went.  Apparently I speak with great authority on God's thought process!  ~Donna

mswood1977

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_second-weddings_annulment-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:35Discussion:d411d3b2-9400-4f6e-aee2-cb67a061bdf7Post:ba653e25-5ed1-401e-82b9-fedd3df85792">Re: annulment</a>:
[QUOTE]Jaime - Sorry if that sounded snarky.  I wasn't trying to be.  I bet my mother would say the same thing as your gram.  She almost wasn't going to go to my brother's JP wedding or to my non-denominational (but Christian) wedding, because she was taught that any wedding that did not occur in the CAtholic church was not a "true wedding" and that Catholics should not attend because that gave the impression that you approved of these two people "pretending to get married."  That is truly what my mother was taught by the oh so tolerant Catholic church.   All the Hindus, Jews, Muslims, atheists, pagans, and those terrible Protestants were just living in sin!  By the way, I told her God would be mad at her if she missed her son's wedding or her daughter's wedding, and that she'd best be there or risk making God mad.  She went.  Apparently I speak with great authority on God's thought process!  ~Donna
Posted by right1thistime[/QUOTE]
 Not sure what she was taught, but the truth is the Catholic church only requires Catholics (those baptized/confirmed Catholic) to be married in the Catholic church.  All other marriages that are between two NON-Catholics who are free to married (first marriage) and the marriage is legally valid, are considered valid marriages no matter where they get married.

right1thistime

Oh, yeah, I know that.  My mom's 85 years old and was taught by a priest back in the 1930's.  He would stand in the church door and turn away anyone whose headgear didn't meet his standards (not enough covering) or whose skirt was not long enough.  Realize that these people had WALKED often 2 miles to church.  Vatican II didn't have a whole lot of impact on my mother's beliefs.  She was shocked that the minister who married us was <gasp> a woman. 

Although I am no longer a practicing Catholic, I taught CCD for over 10 years, most recently about 4 years ago, so I do have a pretty good working knowledge of the actual teachings of the Church today. ~Donna

bubajoe

So obviously you'll have to talk with the priest for specific details based on everyone's comments.  Cost, usual length of time, and do 'you' really need the annulment.....

I too am awaiting my 'verdict' from the dioceses. My second marriage, my fiancés first. I started the process in Oct 09 and will be married in Oct 10. I was told it would take anywhere from 6mo to 1 yr, my cost was $450 and was it hard......yes.

It was incredibly hard for me to answer the 47 questions that must be answered in short essay forms. It brought up a lot of old horrible memories that I had put far away in hopes to never relive. My priest tried telling me it should be enlightening, and bring me closer to my fiance. However it was not at all and I know the man I'm marring is not a monster and wished to never liver those moments again.  I continued with the process because it is so important for my fiance and I to wed in god's house, with the religious beliefs we grew up learning and continue to practice

Once I finished my part, those same questions are given to my ex, he gets 45 days to respond, if he doesn't then they move on to sending questions to the witnesses, same 45 day time frame, and from there they review all the material before making a decision.

I wish you luck.

Zooloo

I was married in a Baptist church for my first marriage and was not Catholic at the time.  While I was going through the divorce, I converted to Catholicism.  Because all Christian marriages are recognized by the Catholic Church as valid, I needed to have my first marriage annulled.

My ex was abusive; I was 5 months pregnant when we married, and I was barely 20.  So, for me, the annulment was fast, free and easy.

How it goes for you will all depend on the factors surrounding your first marriage and why you divorced.

c-dub

I am late here, but wanted to share my 2 cents. I went through the annulment process. It took nearly 2 years. My biggest piece of advice would be to call the marriage tribunal periodically to check up on the status of your case. I called every few months, and was glad I did. At one point I called and they couldn't find my case file. Turns out it had gotten lost under a stack of papers on someone's desk. So the whole time it was lost, the case wasn't moving forward at all. Who knows how long it would have taken someone to realize if I hadn't been calling to check up.

Regarding the emotions you go through when answering the questions: I was told by my priest that it would be a cleansing process to face them, and that I would learn about myself and my relationships. I do not agree that it was a cleansing process. I had already thought a lot and did a lot of soul-searching about the breakup of my marriage; I didn't need the annulment process to encourage me to do so. So yes, it was a painful experience rather than a cathartic one; however, in the end it was oh-so-worth it because my FI and I are free to marry in the Church just like we want.

And one more thing - I think you mentioned you were afraid you would be looked down upon. I was afraid of the same thing, but I never experienced it, either through the process or now as I go through marriage prep with our new priest.

nmauser82

thank you everyone for your responses. We met with the priest in our area and told us pretty much what I already knew and what most of you here have said. That I do in fact need an annulment. Though for anyone interested, it sounded as though there was a loop hole. If one of the divorced partners was catholic and the marriage took place out side of the church then the marriage is not considered valid and an anulment is not needed. It doesn't apply to me but I thought it was interesting.

After concidering the options and discussing it at length together we have decided not to go ahead with the annulment. It's just too painfull to bring up all of that past history. Its not just the history of the marriage/breakup, they want my entire life story which will dredge up stuff about my parents' divorce and I just do not want to go down that road again. Nor do I want to subject my family to it during the witness process.

So we'll just have a beautiful outdoor wedding at the country club where the reception will be. His parents are supporting this decision and it seems like everything is alright. I truely am lucky to have such a supportive family to marry into.

Thank you again to everyone that responded.

Sue-n-Kevin

I"m glad you are able to do what you want and not have any bad "family feelings" from either side.

Congrats

CandyGirlSparks

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_second-weddings_annulment-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:35Discussion:d411d3b2-9400-4f6e-aee2-cb67a061bdf7Post:d5c4677d-f38e-4cc8-b729-43640f303015">Re: annulment</a>:
[QUOTE] After concidering the options and discussing it at length together we have decided not to go ahead with the annulment. It's just too painfull to bring up all of that past history. Its not just the history of the marriage/breakup, they want my entire life story which will dredge up stuff about my parents' divorce and I just do not want to go down that road again. Nor do I want to subject my family to it during the witness process. So we'll just have a beautiful outdoor wedding at the country club where the reception will be. His parents are supporting this decision and it seems like everything is alright. I truely am lucky to have such a supportive family to marry into. Thank you again to everyone that responded.
Posted by nmauser82[/QUOTE]

Good for you! You will still be married in God's eyes and that's what's important, not Catholic church red tape. I mean...people have to put off their weddings for however long over this? Plus after paying to get divorced legally, you have to pay hundreds of dollars more?? Plus you have to dredge up horrible memories and the like? Reading all this makes me sooooo glad I'm a Baptist.

Best wishes for your wedding, sounds like it will be beautiful. :)