What Do You Think It Means to be a Maid??

revived86

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_think-means-maid?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:357Discussion:214f145e-1b02-4bcf-84fe-678d25b95ebaPost:4ad56b3a-5ec1-4aff-9d01-faf43c014b54">Re: What Do You Think It Means to be a Maid??</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: What Do You Think It Means to be a Maid?? : Bridesmaid =/= Servant. I have a friend who is in-house counsel at a software company, a wife and mom to two under three years old.  She teaches Irish fiddle and still manages to play in an Irish band.  On top of all this, she still manages to help out her husband planning social activities like birthdays and holiday parties at his dental office. <strong> Should I really have expected her to have dropped anything to help me with my wedding?  Because this is what you're saying sounds like:  If she loved me she would have figured out how to help.</strong>
Posted by tldh[/QUOTE]

That is NOT what i'm saying. First of all, I never said anyone has to drop everything to help with anyone's wedding, or that they should shirk their other responsibilities because of you.

Secondly, this friend is obviously not in a place to help you all that much with all she has on her plate, and that is FINE. You know that, she knows that and that is okay. I'm talking about people who are taking 2 classes at community college, live with their parents and work at starbucks 20 hours a week but still wont help you with anything (that sounds like i'm talking about someone specific but it was just a hypothetical example, lol.)

bablingbrooke

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_think-means-maid?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:357Discussion:214f145e-1b02-4bcf-84fe-678d25b95ebaPost:9d8589de-d592-4f15-af8b-224a88469051">Re: What Do You Think It Means to be a Maid??</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: What Do You Think It Means to be a Maid?? : I guess i just think that sometimes you should do things you may not really want to do because you do them out of love for the person that needs your help. Its not like i "measure" the strength of friendships by how much people will do for me, but i think anyone would say that if a friend helped them a ton with something- a wedding, moving, assembling furniture, or whatever- that would say something about the strength of their friendship. <strong>How do you measure the strength of friendship, Brooke? </strong>Also, for the third time, i am not saying people should put their lives on hold for someone else. I'm saying help when you can because you love the person, don't just do the bare minimum.
Posted by revived86[/QUOTE]
In no particular order:<div>-Shared experiences and values.</div><div>-Can I call them in an actual, factual emergency and count on them for help?</div><div>-Do I enjoy their company?</div><div>-Their character and attitude toward the world and toward me.</div><div>-The fun and adventures we have with each other.</div><div>-Can I talk to them about my problems and expect them to listen, even if they will eventually tell me what I don't want to hear?  Am I willing to do the same for them?</div><div>
</div><div>If I need help with a chore, will I call and ask?  Sometimes (I don't do it often).  Will I question the friendship if they say no?  No.  I don't consider my friends free labor and never have.</div>

bablingbrooke

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_think-means-maid?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:357Discussion:214f145e-1b02-4bcf-84fe-678d25b95ebaPost:b13b6689-c05c-4011-b261-92af5730504e">Re: What Do You Think It Means to be a Maid??</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: What Do You Think It Means to be a Maid?? : That is NOT what i'm saying. First of all, I never said anyone has to drop everything to help with anyone's wedding, or that they should shirk their other responsibilities because of you. Secondly, this friend is obviously not in a place to help you all that much with all she has on her plate, and that is FINE. You know that, she knows that and that is okay. <strong>I'm talking about people who are taking 2 classes at community college, live with their parents and work at starbucks 20 hours a week but still wont help you with anything</strong> (that sounds like i'm talking about someone specific but it was just a hypothetical example, lol.)
Posted by revived86[/QUOTE]
You don't have any right to her time.  Sorry.

aerinpegadrak

My strongest friendships aren't necessarily with the people who helped me move, or stuff envelopes, or assemble furniture.  They're with the people who called me first when they found out they were pregnant, who stood up for me when someone was being a jerk, who listened when I was stressing about family stuff, who offered to take me in when I needed a place to stay.  THAT'S what friendship is about.  Helping with the little mundane tasks that come up is certainly nice, but it's really not what's important.  If a person's friendships are entirely built upon what favors they've done for each other, that's pretty damn shallow.

revived86

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_think-means-maid?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:357Discussion:214f145e-1b02-4bcf-84fe-678d25b95ebaPost:66d94283-4239-48c2-9431-15e5beed0fd6">Re: What Do You Think It Means to be a Maid??</a>:
[QUOTE]I never said getting married wasn't a big deal.  It's a very big deal. <strong> But thinking the party is just as important?  There's a problem.  I don't look back at my wedding day and think, "That was the day my life changed forever." </strong> I DO think that about other days, including the day DH and I got engaged, because that's when we made the commitment to spend our lives together (his culture reflects that by celebrating engagement anniversaries and making a bigger deal out of them than wedding anniversaries). <strong>As aerin said, if you realize that the wedding is a party and the marriage is more important, you find yourself not stressing about the party at all.</strong>  Which is good, it shouldn't be stressed over.  It should be enjoyed and put in the corner of your mind where all good memories about big days go. <strong> But to think that this is the biggest day of your life you will ever have...what more do you have to live for?</strong>
Posted by bablingbrooke[/QUOTE]

For me personally, on my wedding day, my life did change forever. I made a vow before God and my family and friends that I would be faithful to my DH for the rest of our life together. We spent our first night together that night. So for me, the day was a big turning point. That is my personal story and maybe that's part of the reason why weddings are such a big deal to me- because they represent that big change.

I 100% agree that the marriage is wayyy more important than the wedding/party/reception...but i think that since the wedding is the beginning of the marriage, it is a big deal, too. Again, i don't rate the experiences of my life in order of importance, so i'm not looking out for the next thing to happen thats going to supersede my wedding- in and of itself, it was important to me and like i said, i think that okay.

revived86

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_think-means-maid?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:357Discussion:214f145e-1b02-4bcf-84fe-678d25b95ebaPost:c6b1c59e-1e41-41d9-9aa8-1f7c1c4c5885">Re: What Do You Think It Means to be a Maid??</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: What Do You Think It Means to be a Maid?? : In no particular order: <strong>-Shared experiences and values. -Can I call them in an actual, factual emergency and count on them for help? -Do I enjoy their company? -Their character and attitude toward the world and toward me. -The fun and adventures we have with each other. -Can I talk to them about my problems and expect them to listen, even if they will eventually tell me what I don't want to hear?  Am I willing to do the same for them?</strong> If I need help with a chore, will I call and ask?  Sometimes (I don't do it often).  Will I question the friendship if they say no?  No.  I don't consider my friends free labor and never have.
Posted by bablingbrooke[/QUOTE]

I agree with all of these things and think that helping each other out with normal life things is just another thing to add to the list. I dont see why its so shocking that i think thats part of friendship.

revived86

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_think-means-maid?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:357Discussion:214f145e-1b02-4bcf-84fe-678d25b95ebaPost:89f87eb0-273a-4d39-be33-a98c3056ac1a">Re: What Do You Think It Means to be a Maid??</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: What Do You Think It Means to be a Maid?? : You don't have any right to her time.  Sorry.
Posted by bablingbrooke[/QUOTE]


I never said I did. I was making a comparison to PP's post about her extremely busy friend who really doesnt have time to help her with her wedding planning. I was saying i'm not talking about people who have legitimate reasons why they dont have the time to help, i'm talking about people who could help but don't. I guess it comes down to what i said about how i believe we sometimes should do things we dont want to do because we love the person who needs our help. If you disagree with that, that's fine, but that's my take.

aerinpegadrak

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_think-means-maid?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:357Discussion:214f145e-1b02-4bcf-84fe-678d25b95ebaPost:11e741ce-491c-4fa4-a6b5-5ca69b324013">Re: What Do You Think It Means to be a Maid??</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: What Do You Think It Means to be a Maid?? : I never said I did. I was making a comparison to PP's post about her extremely busy friend who really doesnt have time to help her with her wedding planning. I was saying i'm not talking about people who have legitimate reasons why they dont have the time to help, i'm talking about people who could help but don't. I guess it comes down to what i said about how i believe we sometimes should do things we dont want to do because we love <strong>the person who needs our help</strong>. If you disagree with that, that's fine, but that's my take.
Posted by revived86[/QUOTE]
But that's just it: you shouldn't need help to plan a wedding.  If it's more than you and your FI can handle, you should scale it back or hire a planner.  Because IT'S JUST A PARTY.  It's not that complicated, and should not require any assistance to accomplish.  Honestly, if you're in desperate enough need of help that it's an actual test of friendship whether people come to your aid for it, you're doing something very wrong.

revived86

Sorry, i meant that whole "when someone needs our help" thing in a much broader sense. If you need tons of help planning your own wedding, you should probably hire a wedding planner, you're right. But if you've got 200 invitations to assemble and it would take you 5 hours doing it alone and half that time if you did it with a friend, then i think a friend who had the time would be doing the right thing by helping out. If you literally cannot handle everything for your wedding without a ton and a half of help, by all means you need to hire someone. You're right with what you said before- friends are not free labor, lol. 

But either way, when I said that about someone *needing* help, i was talking about more than just weddings.

bablingbrooke

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_think-means-maid?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:357Discussion:214f145e-1b02-4bcf-84fe-678d25b95ebaPost:5735ac6f-2056-46f4-9941-e7270f08a0f4">Re: What Do You Think It Means to be a Maid??</a>:
[QUOTE]Sorry, i meant that whole "when someone needs our help" thing in a much broader sense. If you need tons of help planning your own wedding, you should probably hire a wedding planner, you're right.<strong> But if you've got 200 invitations to assemble and it would take you 5 hours doing it alone and half that time if you did it with a friend, then i think a friend who had the time would be doing the right thing by helping out. </strong>If you literally cannot handle everything for your wedding without a ton and a half of help, by all means you need to hire someone. You're right with what you said before- friends are not free labor, lol.  But either way, when I said that about someone *needing* help, i was talking about more than just weddings.
Posted by revived86[/QUOTE]
No, that's FI's job to help you stuff 200 invitations.  100 of them are likely from his side, anyway.  DH and I addressed, assembled, and mailed out 210 invites together.  No need to ask anyone else to help.  We actually had a lot of fun doing it.<div>
</div><div>That's what confuses me--why do you not mention your FI being the first person to go to for help with planning?</div>

revived86

Beacause for the first half of our engagement, we were long distance, so he couldnt do the STD's, invitations or anything.

bablingbrooke

You couldn't wait until he came to visit to do wedding things?

aerinpegadrak

You couldn't send him a big batch with half the stuff for them and have him do his half?  Or do email STDs so you didn't have to stuff any envelopes?  Or pay some high school kid with nice handwriting $20 to do it for you?  There are plenty of ways to address any such issue that don't require you to hit up your friends for favors.

ETA: Or start working on them sooner than five hours before they need to go out?  I DIYed practically my entire wedding, including handmaking over 100 paper flowers, with very little assistance.  Because I started really early.  Again, not that difficult.

tldh

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_think-means-maid?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:357Discussion:214f145e-1b02-4bcf-84fe-678d25b95ebaPost:2c407d8a-0468-4650-97b1-44f2e7536283">Re: What Do You Think It Means to be a Maid??</a>:
[QUOTE]You couldn't send him a big batch with half the stuff for them and have him do his half?  Or do email STDs so you didn't have to stuff any envelopes?  Or pay some high school kid with nice handwriting $20 to do it for you?  There are plenty of ways to address any such issue that don't require you to hit up your friends for favors. ETA: <strong>Or start working on them sooner than five hours before they need to go out?  I DIYed practically my entire wedding, including handmaking over 100 paper flowers, with very little assistance.  Because I started really early.  Again, not that difficult.
</strong>Posted by aerinpegadrak[/QUOTE]

Agreed.  I did all the STDs, invitations, inserts, RSVP cards, programs and non perishable goodies for the OOT bags 6 -7 months before my September wedding because I knew May, June and July would be taken up with working and studying for the bar exam at the end of July. 

Still, not once did I expect anyone except DH to help me out with any of this, not my superbusy friend or the one who is single and never goes out or any of my friends whose lives fall in between.

mkrupar

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_think-means-maid?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:357Discussion:214f145e-1b02-4bcf-84fe-678d25b95ebaPost:11e741ce-491c-4fa4-a6b5-5ca69b324013">Re: What Do You Think It Means to be a Maid??</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: What Do You Think It Means to be a Maid?? : I never said I did. I was making a comparison to PP's post about her extremely busy friend who really doesnt have time to help her with her wedding planning. I was saying i'm not talking about people who have legitimate reasons why they dont have the time to help, i'm talking about people who could help but don't. I guess it comes down to what i said about how i believe we sometimes should do things we dont want to do because we love the person who needs our help. If you disagree with that, that's fine, but that's my take.
Posted by revived86[/QUOTE]

The point still stands, that even if one of your BMs work 20 hours a week and are only taking 2 classes at community college, you still don't have a right to expect her to help you in her free time. It's her time, not yours. That's the point these ladies are trying to make. If you expect your friend, that you deem has more than enought time on her hands, to help you, and by her not doing so, you consider her to be less of a friend, you're doing something wrong.

I don't think you're getting the point. It's not about fundamentally disagreeing on what a wedding is to people. Your ceremony, your vows before God , family and friends, could have taken place between you, your minister, and a witness, and that would have constituted a wedding. You CHOSE to add the friends, family, and yes, the party (reception), into the mix. That does not mean that because you chose those things, your friends have to spend their time helping you.

revived86

bablingbrooke- neither of us had a lot of money at the time so visits were not a common thing. He was in chicago and i was in new york, so it wasnt a cheap trip.

aerin- it would have been more difficult and expensive to mail him his batch of invitations. Email was not an option as most of the family on both our sides are older and not internet savvy. I did get the invites addressed by a calligrapher but still had a lot to do to put them together. Finally, i never said anything about doing the invites 5 hours before they need to go out, i said it would take 5 hours to do them yourself but half the time with a friend.

Aerin & tidh- That's really awesome that you two did all those things yourself for your wedding, i respect that a lot and that's great that that was how you wanted to do it. I just dont see why it's wrong of me to want/ask for some help and to have fun doing these things with my BM's.

I kind of feel like you guys are getting a little too intense about this, honestly. I'm just saying i think we should help our friends out. That's it. I think we really may just need to agree to disagree about all this.

bablingbrooke

What did you think would happen when you asked for a "lively discussion"?

You're talking to the gal whose DH spent the first 10 months of their marriage in San Diego while she lived in Boston with only one income between us.  Forgive me if I have little sympathy for the time and expense of a Chicago-NY relationship.  I sympathize that it was difficult, but let's just say it could have cost you a lot more.

revived86

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_think-means-maid?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:357Discussion:214f145e-1b02-4bcf-84fe-678d25b95ebaPost:ff146a19-a298-4a34-a24e-c97fd038564b">Re: What Do You Think It Means to be a Maid??</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: What Do You Think It Means to be a Maid?? : The point still stands, that even if one of your BMs work 20 hours a week and are only taking 2 classes at community college, you still don't have a right to expect her to help you in her free time. It's her time, not yours. That's the point these ladies are trying to make. If you expect your friend, that you deem has more than enought time on her hands, to help you, and <strong>by her not doing so, you consider her to be less of a friend, you're doing something wrong.</strong> I don't think you're getting the point. It's not about fundamentally disagreeing on what a wedding is to people. <strong>Your ceremony, your vows before God , family and friends, could have taken place between you, your minister, and a witness, and that would have constituted a wedding. You CHOSE to add the friends, family, </strong>and yes, the party (reception), into the mix. That does not mean that because you chose those things, your friends have to spend their time helping you.
Posted by mkrupar[/QUOTE]

The only thing I said about someone being a bad friend is if they literally plan to just show up at the wedding in a dress that they liked and thought was cheap enough and they wont do ANYthing at all to put their friend who's getting married before themselves and help her a little bit in whatever way they can.  That's it.

And honestly, our ceremony and vows before God and family and friends would not have been the same had they happened between just me and FI and a minister and a witness- because then our family and friends would not have been there! I chose to add them because they are important to me and I am important to them. You make it sound like i'm burdening them just by asking them to be part of an important thing in my life.

bablingbrooke

NO ONE said you can't or shouldn't have had those things.  But you can't expect everyone else to be as excited as you are.  You make it sound like you're a bad friend if you can't or wont' do what the bride wants.  Very few WPs are also a new social group of planners.  It's also wrong to think that people should just suck it up and do it, even if they don't really want to--who would want to put their friends in that position?

revived86

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_think-means-maid?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:357Discussion:214f145e-1b02-4bcf-84fe-678d25b95ebaPost:c331a849-b55a-415f-94d7-f351f9fda87e">Re: What Do You Think It Means to be a Maid??</a>:
[QUOTE]<strong>What did you think would happen when you asked for a "lively discussion"?</strong> You're talking to the gal whose DH spent the first 10 months of their marriage in San Diego while she lived in Boston with only one income between us.  <strong>Forgive me if I have little sympathy for the time and expense of a Chicago-NY relationship.</strong>  I sympathize that it was difficult, but let's just say it could have cost you a lot more.
Posted by bablingbrooke[/QUOTE]

I thought we'd all share our opinions and discuss this on a general level. I didnt think it would end up basically being me against 4 of you. lol. needless to say, i will never use the phrase "lively discussion" again on this board:-P

When you said we should have held off on wedding stuff until he visited, i thought maybe you thought we lived a few hours apart. I was just clarifying that it wasnt like that. San Diego-Boston is certainly a much bigger deal and i understand that. You one-upped me there:-)

tldh

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_think-means-maid?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:357Discussion:214f145e-1b02-4bcf-84fe-678d25b95ebaPost:dc6685d5-afa0-4b8a-bee4-61c80c9652d8">Re: What Do You Think It Means to be a Maid??</a>:
[QUOTE]bablingbrooke- neither of us had a lot of money at the time so visits were not a common thing. He was in chicago and i was in new york, so it wasnt a cheap trip. aerin- it would have been more difficult and expensive to mail him his batch of invitations. Email was not an option as most of the family on both our sides are older and not internet savvy. I did get the invites addressed by a calligrapher but still had a lot to do to put them together. Finally, i never said anything about doing the invites 5 hours before they need to go out, i said it would take 5 hours to do them yourself but half the time with a friend. Aerin & tidh- That's really awesome that you two did all those things yourself for your wedding, i respect that a lot and that's great that that was how you wanted to do it. <strong>I just dont see why it's wrong of me to want/ask for some help and to have fun doing these things with my BM's.</strong> I kind of feel like you guys are getting a little too intense about this, honestly. I'm just saying i think we should help our friends out. That's it. I think we really may just need to agree to disagree about all this.
Posted by revived86[/QUOTE]


If your BMs thought they'd have fun doing this they would have volunteered.  You still seem to be missing the point that friends who want to help will volunteer.  This is in no way related to the designation of BM or how good of a friend someone is.  You can decide how far you want to go as a friend but you don't get to decide how far others will go for you.  What you see as a lot of down time, they may see as mental health time.

revived86

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_think-means-maid?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:357Discussion:214f145e-1b02-4bcf-84fe-678d25b95ebaPost:da064963-9d43-4c6b-9906-edb5fa148505">Re: What Do You Think It Means to be a Maid??</a>:
[QUOTE]NO ONE said you can't or shouldn't have had those things.  But you can't expect everyone else to be as excited as you are.  <strong>You make it sound like you're a bad friend if you can't or wont' do what the bride wants. </strong> Very few WPs are also a new social group of planners.  It's also wrong to think that people should just suck it up and do it, even if they don't really want to--who would want to put their friends in that position?
Posted by bablingbrooke[/QUOTE]

That's not what i mean. I think the limitations of online communication are coming out here because we are entirely misunderstanding one another. ALL i mean is that its nice to help out a friend who is getting married. That is it.

Do you at least agree with me that sometimes we should do things we dont necessarily really want to do because we love the people who need us to do them?

aerinpegadrak

I don't see how it would have cost that much to send him a big box with all the stuff in it, but whatever.

I don't think anyone is saying that bridesmaids shouldn't help if they want to, or that it isn't nice when friends take an interest in your wedding stuff.  The problem comes when some beebee bride sees you saying "Your friends should want to help" and takes that to mean that it's fine for her to force her friends into doing these things and hold it against them if they aren't willing or able to.  And further, your friends are usually much more willing to help if you let them offer rather than if you're asking for favors, even if you think you aren't doing so all that often.  People prefer to do good deeds when it feels like a good deed (i.e. when it's their idea) rather than it feeling like a favor for someone or worse, a chore to be checked off their list.

People advocate the "don't try to force your friends into doing stuff they don't want to do" approach because it WORKS, and because the people who don't ask for help are usually the ones who end up getting it when they truly need it.

bablingbrooke

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_think-means-maid?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:357Discussion:214f145e-1b02-4bcf-84fe-678d25b95ebaPost:1531300c-133e-4868-9b08-76648f8fb212">Re: What Do You Think It Means to be a Maid??</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: What Do You Think It Means to be a Maid?? : That's not what i mean. I think the limitations of online communication are coming out here because we are entirely misunderstanding one another. ALL i mean is that its nice to help out a friend who is getting married. That is it. <strong>Do you at least agree with me that sometimes we should do things we dont necessarily really want to do because we love the people who need us to do them?</strong>
Posted by revived86[/QUOTE]
This is not one of those situations.  You don't "need" their help.  You "want" their help.  But planning a party is not one of those situations where you grin and bear it for someone else's sake.  It's planning a party.  Big ol' difference.<div>
</div><div>And the reason you're the only person advocating this POV: Most people don't agree with it.  You're not being ganged up on, you have a POV that most people don't share.  Most people (especially married people) think it's ridiculous to expect your friends and family to drop everything and spend time and money on you rather than on what they would rather do.</div>

revived86

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_think-means-maid?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:357Discussion:214f145e-1b02-4bcf-84fe-678d25b95ebaPost:065e43bd-7372-4065-939b-43aa3d40284e">Re: What Do You Think It Means to be a Maid??</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: What Do You Think It Means to be a Maid?? : If your BMs thought they'd have fun doing this they would have volunteered.  You still seem to be missing the point that friends who want to help will volunteer.  This is in no way related to the designation of BM or how good of a friend someone is.  You can decide how far you want to go as a friend but you don't get to decide how far others will go for you.  What you see as a lot of down time, they may see as mental health time.
Posted by tldh[/QUOTE]

You make some really good points here. Originally, i was looking at this from the perspective of a BM, but i think eventually it got turned around to my view as a bride- but as a BM, i think you should put your friend above yourself a little bit and help her on her wedding day. I'm not saying as a bride you get to expect that from every friend. I also understand that its not generally fair to judge how someone spends their time. That is a good point.

Btw, my BMs did help volunteer to help me and we had a blast working on my wedding together. And i will help them however i can when their wedding comes.

revived86

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_think-means-maid?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:357Discussion:214f145e-1b02-4bcf-84fe-678d25b95ebaPost:9af4a8c7-9bd1-42e7-89fc-74f8363e685b">Re: What Do You Think It Means to be a Maid??</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: What Do You Think It Means to be a Maid?? : <strong> This is not one of those situations.  You don't "need" their help.  You "want" their help.  But planning a party is not one of those situations where you grin and bear it for someone else's sake. </strong> It's planning a party.  Big ol' difference. And the reason you're the only person advocating this POV: Most people don't agree with it.  You're not being ganged up on, you have a POV that most people don't share.  Most people (especially married people) think it's ridiculous to<strong> expect your friends and family to drop everything and spend time and money on you rather than on what they would rather do.</strong>
Posted by bablingbrooke[/QUOTE]

I wasnt talking specifically about weddings, sorry- i should have made that point. I know that you dont need someone's help with a wedding, you just want it- you're right about that. But there are situations- emergencies, crises, etc- where you grin and bear it for someone else.

I think i've said this like five times now, but i am not expecting anyone to drop everything and spend tons of time and money. I am saying lets be kind, good friends and help each other out when we can, how we can- because we want to. That's it.

revived86

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_think-means-maid?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:357Discussion:214f145e-1b02-4bcf-84fe-678d25b95ebaPost:93ebc245-ecf9-4f01-ba86-3339d689e4b4">Re: What Do You Think It Means to be a Maid??</a>:
[QUOTE]I don't see how it would have cost that much to send him a big box with all the stuff in it, but whatever. I don't think anyone is saying that bridesmaids shouldn't help if they want to, or that it isn't nice when friends take an interest in your wedding stuff.  <strong>The problem comes when some beebee bride sees you saying "Your friends should want to help" and takes that to mean that it's fine for her to force her friends into doing these things and hold it against them if they aren't willing or able to. </strong> And further, your friends are usually much more willing to help if you let them offer rather than if you're asking for favors, even if you think you aren't doing so all that often.  People prefer to do good deeds when it feels like a good deed (i.e. when it's their idea) rather than it feeling like a favor for someone or worse, a chore to be checked off their list. People advocate the "don't try to force your friends into doing stuff they don't want to do" approach because it WORKS, and because the people who don't ask for help are usually the ones who end up getting it when they truly need it.
Posted by aerinpegadrak[/QUOTE]

I see what you're saying here. I guess i think the most important thing is that there is balance on both sides- that the bride has patience and understanding with her BMS and knows they have their own lives, and that the BMs realize that the wedding is one of, if not the, most important things in her life right now and wants to help her out with it.

yeah, i totally agree with you here, aerin. Yay! lol

AutumnFair

As a person who has been a BM and MOH many times for many friends. I will say I offer my help when I can, but I am a crafty person and like to help create things. Some of my friends love planning stuff, others could care less about their wedding. Some took me up on certain things I offered to do, some didn't. Sometimes they asked me if I was free and wanted help, and I declined because I had other plans. One of my friends lives a state away and I could do one thing besides show up for her the day of her wedding. I have also done MANY things for friends and family for weddings I was NOT in the WP so basically it does NOT matter to me if I am in someone's wedding or not. If I feel like offering my help to the Bride, I'm going to, if I don't feel like it, I'm not.

There is NO specific duties or things you can really expect a BM to do because there SO many situations out there. I have family and friends that are workaholics and have full time school so they probably will not want to talk about my wedding or tie a hundred favors or other tedious DIY. Same goes for parties, would I expect anyone I care about to host a party. Hell no, I don't have that kind of entitled mindset. Bridal Showers and Bachelorette parties are NOT required for marriage so Brides to expect these parties need to get their heads out of the clouds and look at the real picture of a wedding, which is marrying the person you love.

Also we had a discussion in another thread here not to long ago that weddings themselves are optional. A couple can easily go get married down at the JOP. So I really can NOT simplize for any Brides when their wedding is "stressing" them out or their FI is gone or not interested in helping. You should NOT have the mindset that your friends and family HAVE or "WANT to want" to help you because it is not...their..party. You can not hold a grudge, be disappointed, etc because a friend (BM) or family member isn't interested, not wanting to help or not talking about your wedding even if you wanted to be humoured. Why? Because if you take a step back, all you are wanting is attention and that is selfish.

To finish up, most of the time many friends and family are excited for you because they are happy for you and most will want to do something. But when Brides (and Groom) start putting expectations on certain people for their wedding their out of line, a wedding is not a movie, it is about marriage I really think couples miss that sometimes.

revived86

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_think-means-maid?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:357Discussion:214f145e-1b02-4bcf-84fe-678d25b95ebaPost:b5c49623-ae3e-42fb-a082-381dc0168c81">Re: What Do You Think It Means to be a Maid??</a>:
[QUOTE]As a person who has been a BM and MOH many times for many friends. I will say I offer my help when I can, but I am a crafty person and like to help create things. Some of my friends love planning stuff, others could care less about their wedding. Some took me up on certain things I offered to do, some didn't. Sometimes they asked me if I was free and wanted help, and I declined because I had other plans. One of my friends lives a state away and I could do one thing besides show up for her the day of her wedding. I have also done MANY things for friends and family for weddings I was NOT in the WP so basically it does NOT matter to me if I am in someone's wedding or not. If I feel like offering my help to the Bride, I'm going to, if I don't feel like it, I'm not. There is NO specific duties or things you can really expect a BM to do because there SO many situations out there. I have family and friends that are workaholics and have full time school so they probably will not want to talk about my wedding or tie a hundred favors or other tedious DIY. Same goes for parties, would I expect anyone I care about to host a party. Hell no, I don't have that kind of entitled mindset. Bridal Showers and Bachelorette parties are NOT required for marriage so Brides to expect these parties need to get their heads out of the clouds and look at the real picture of a wedding, which is marrying the person you love. Also we had a discussion in another thread here not to long ago that weddings themselves are optional. A couple can easily go get married down at the JOP. So I really can NOT simplize for any Brides when their wedding is "stressing" them out or their FI is gone or not interested in helping. You should NOT have the mindset that your friends and family HAVE or "WANT to want" to help you because it is not...their..party. <strong>You can not hold a grudge, be disappointed, etc because a friend (BM) or family member isn't interested, not wanting to help or not talking about your wedding even if you wanted to be humoured. Why? Because if you take a step back, all you are wanting is attention and that is selfish.</strong> To finish up, most of the time many friends and family are excited for you because they are happy for you and most will want to do something. But when Brides (and Groom) start putting expectations on certain people for their wedding their out of line, a wedding is not a movie, it is about marriage I really think couples miss that sometimes.
Posted by AutumnFair[/QUOTE]

This is a really great post, I agree with a lot of it. I would ask, though- do you really think that all you are doing is wanting attention and being selfish by wanting your friends and family to be involved in something like your wedding? Would you say the same thing if you were having a baby and wanted your friends and family to experience that with you? I guess i think its about more than selfishness, because i think weddings are about more than just the bride and groom being celebrities for a day- i think its the start of a really special, meaningful bond that you would want to experience in community with all the people you love. Just like you would want to experience the important events of their life along with them. It's not about selfishness to me, it's about sharing life together. (and, no that doesnt mean tying a million ribbons on invitations. I'm just saying in general, thats what being part of someone's wedding  means to me.)

bablingbrooke

I don't think it's wrong to want people to be happy for you during a big, life-changing event, but I think the key is to be realistic about the timeframe.  99% of your guests, relatives, and BFFs won't be excited 1 year, 6 months, or 3 months out.  You can expect attention during pre-wedding parties and during the wedding itself.  That's fair.  I don't think it's realistic to expect everyone to be excited for you for a long period of time and be so excited they want to help you plan, stuff envelopes, etc.  If they are, great.  If they're not, you can't really fault them.  Know what I mean?