Moms and Maids

Re: h1

  • zitiqueenzitiqueen member
    Knottie Warrior 2500 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_future-bride-needs-advice?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:357Discussion:46f20693-1ebe-4d57-82d5-33dcee1aa872Post:72c78700-b3b9-4f32-9125-76abf4982041">Help, my future bride needs advice</a>:
    [QUOTE]Background: We are both 24, I am a rather successful person having been on my own since I was 18 and now own my own home, car, etc.  She is still in school and is still getting money from her parents for a room and food/expenses despite living with me for the past several months.  We pushed our planned wedding date out to about Oct 2012 to reduce my own parents divorse into distant memory, and help make the day a little bit more special, and  more importantly since we both agree that there is no rush to get married.  Here's the bottom line question I am asking all the brides/future brides, and mothers; am I, the future Groom being unreasonable.  Here is what I am asking: (1)Her mother has insisted to pay for the entire wedding.  And by insisted, I mean she shut the conversation down with tone/attitude.  Both myself, and my parents have offered to tender either part or the full amount for the wedding my Fiance and I want, with a single condition (my fathers g/f isn't invited)... not hard.  Her mother has tacked several conditions; (hor- derve wedding) (Anglican Bishop presiding at the ceremony) (small wedding) (refusal for me to be included at all[not even taste tests]) (must be at an Anglican church).... This goes along the idea that I am welcomed into her family, her father gives her away to me, and we "ride off into the sunset"...... I'll add that this goes against my core belief that all people are equal but different, and this type of attitude is in my oppiinion, sexist; which my sister and mother agree... She isn't cattle, and I am not accepting a dowry for her/  (2)  I am Catholic and she is Anglican.  Actually, her parents are formerly presbyterian converted to Episcopalian, her mother became a priest and several years ago they became Anglicans.  My family has been Catholic since we were run out of a country into Maryland before th 1600's... My Family has never cared about where we get married, but there is a Catholic church at the Catholic university we both met at.  It is by far the nicest of any of the churches we could attend, and has alot of significance to us since we both met and grew together at this school.  my Fiance has come to the conclusion twice that this university Chapel was the best option, and even told me; "I, (her name), do hereby state that I am enamored of the idea of (University Chapel) with an Anglican communion after the ceremony.".... In Email too, since she had somehow forgotten about the first time she liked the idea, and I wanted it in her own words to remind herself if she forgot in a few months.  (that was 2 weeks ago) We worked to find the best option, and this was the best option we both agreed on.  After she came back from talking with her mother(last week), her mother gave an ultimatum that it MUST be an Anglican Priest doing the marriage, and that I would NOT be included in any planning anymore.  Honestly, as a groom, I am not going to feel confortable "just showing up" because, like my parents know, I am not anyone's stepping stood... Am I being onreasonable to (1) expect my Fiance to push back on her parents, defend, me, and defend us, and say NO to there help with strings? (2) I honestly don't know what to do here, is she being reasonable to have come back after talking with her mother saying, "it makes a difference to me who performs the ceremony" and "I want it to be an anglican ceremony" The first thing you should know about my Fiance is, she doesn't like to create waves and she always wants to make everyone happy.  Its part of why we work, because I help defend her opinion in front of people because she doesn't want to cause ripples, but I am used to it.  She gets to have her opinion heard and I get the blame; sadly it looks like I control her sometimes when I am just saying what she is thinking, but its our dynamic... Anyways.... I need objective opinions, HELP!?  I Have no idea if I am being overly controlling, Groomzilla ish, or what.  I'm also not sure if this is in the right forum, but I figured that the brides/mothers would be the best people to ask anyways.  Thanks!
    Posted by Silentii[/QUOTE]

    Dude, run. Seriously. You admit she's a doormat who lets everybody -- including her mother, including <em>you</em> -- run roughshod over her and make her decisions for her and defend her and protect her from the rest of the big mean world because she's just too precious and delicate to do it for herself.

    Do you really want a lifetime of that? Because getting married won't change any of that.
  • edited December 2011
    Pretty much you have to look at it like this: If they're paying then they want control. If you're paying then you and your FI get to call the shots. You need to figure out exactly what you both want to do, including the ceremony, and execute it. If you differ from the MOB's demands, thank her for her input and offer to help but it's YOUR wedding and you're going to plan it as you see fit. Control = Money.
  • zitiqueenzitiqueen member
    Knottie Warrior 2500 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_future-bride-needs-advice?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:357Discussion:46f20693-1ebe-4d57-82d5-33dcee1aa872Post:2241c8ac-b432-4d0c-b6a5-3590a347ff92">Re: Help, my future bride needs advice</a>:
    [QUOTE]Its more that she stands up when she needs too, but she tries to avoid the big issues, and in this case,<strong> I agree that I think her mother steamrollers her...</strong> Also, She doesn't let me steamroller her...
    Posted by Silentii[/QUOTE]

    Again, a wedding ring won't change this. Her mother steamrolls her because your FI allows it.

    At the very least you should be encouraging her to experience complete independence before getting married. How is she supposed to learn to stand on her own two feet when she's going directly from mommy and daddy's house to your house?
  • freebread03freebread03 member
    1000 Comments Fourth Anniversary 250 Love Its First Answer
    edited December 2011
    Like Jordan said, if you pay for your own wedding, you call the shots.  Her mother sounds very controlling, so I'd probably do whatever I could to avoid letting her mom pay.
  • edited December 2011
    That's something she's going to have to figure out for herself. You can't really push her into standing up for herself, that's an oxymoron. She has to come to that realization that she needs to make decisions without being berated by others. All you can do is listen to her opinions and make sure her voice is heard. People don't change overnight so it's going to take time.
  • AutumnFairAutumnFair member
    Eighth Anniversary 1000 Comments
    edited December 2011
    I can see two options that you should try to do. Have a serious yet open discussion with your FI about her not standing up to her parents and defending you and what the BOTH of you want for this wedding or get pre-wedding couples counseling to discuss these issues. Because like others said, her not standing up for you and her being bossed around by her parents is NOT going to change after you two say "I do". Because if you think her mother is being controlling now, wait until grandchildren, holidays, etc are involved. 

    To me, your FI sounds like she is stuck on being depended on someone, for the pass 24 years it has been her parents, and now she is scared to let go and try to do things herself. She doesn't want them angry because they have been her supporters all her life, and probably have taken advantage of this and use their money as a way to control.

    As for your FMIL demands. You need to decline her money, and your FI needs to tell her parents "NO". I don't use the "it's YOUR day" line but in things dealing with ceremony/religious aspects I totally side with what the Bride and Groom wants. Her mother may say that you guys can't refuse her money but you CAN, you plan your own wedding without giving her much if any details and ignore her rants of what they wedding should be according to her.

    Your FI NEEDS to realize that she can't be controlled by her parents anymore, and when differences in views come up that she needs to talk to you and you BOTH decide what you want and she needs to stand up to her parents when you two both agree on a decision. Your FI has to get on setting up boundaries with her parents, because if she doesn't it her parents will continue to control her and will/already has put a strain/bump in your relationship. 

    Good luck to you both.
  • edited December 2011
    People like her mother behave the way they do because they have been allowed to do so for a long period of time.  They have not had anyone tell them NO.

    Your fiance needs to grow up and stand for what she wants as an adult.  It's that simple.  It's not like she doesn't have options.  She needs to stop taking their support.  As long as she does, then her folks have reason to feel like they have the right to make decisions for her.

    If she does all of this, her mother will likely be QUITE unhappy.  She needs to stand firm and say, I love you very much, but I am adult who is entitled to live my life on my terms.  I know you are unhappy, but I hope that we can work through it and you can attend my wedding and celebrate with me."  Her mom may threaten to not attend.  The answer to that is, "I'm sorry you feel that way and I hope you will change your mind.  If not, we'll miss you."

    These are not easy things...and unfortunately your fiance is the only one who can decide to do it and get it done.  Good luck.....
    My baby girl is a married woman...and now my baby girl HAS a baby girl. Time unfolds in such an amazing way. I've been blessed!
  • lindseyann410lindseyann410 member
    500 Comments
    edited December 2011
    This is your wedding too.  I agree that you should be involved in the planning as you want to be, and your FI's mother has no right to tell you to stay out of it. She uses money as a way to control things.  Your FI needs to see that.

    It sounds like your FI has A LOT of growing up to do.  I'm a firm believer of knowing how to live independently, and I don't think your FI will ever have a chance to do that.  Therefore, she will always be a doormat.  

    First things first- FI needs to grow up and get a backbone.  This is the bigger issue, not the wedding.
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  • MairePoppyMairePoppy Connecticut mod
    Moderator Knottie Warrior 5000 Comments 500 Love Its
    edited December 2011
    Since you haven't agreed on the church, yet, I will assume that your wedding date is not set in stone. The two of you should not set a date until you are able and willing to support each other emotionally, spiritually and financially.

    You should make appointments with the Catholic priest and an Anglican priest (not your fmil, of course) to talk about the marriage requirements for each church. Your fi is having some doubts about her agreement to marry in the Catholic church, so give her time to think this through. This decision should be based on faith not the looks of the church or sentimental attachment. Neither set of parents should have any input for that decision.

    I agree that your fils are being unreasonable in excluding you from your own wedding plans. They are also being disrespectful to your parents. Your fi knows that, but unless she is willing to stand up to her parents, things will not change.



                       
  • MairePoppyMairePoppy Connecticut mod
    Moderator Knottie Warrior 5000 Comments 500 Love Its
    edited December 2011
    Is there a reason that you have to get married on 10/10/12? I don't think you should push her to make a decision. Give her whatever amount of  time that she needs to think it through. If the venues you want are booked, change the date or the venue.

    I didn't suggest you throw in the towel on the relationship. I suggested that you not set a date until you and she are able to support each other financially, emotionally and spiritually. Patience is a virtue.
                       
  • zitiqueenzitiqueen member
    Knottie Warrior 2500 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_future-bride-needs-advice?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:357Discussion:46f20693-1ebe-4d57-82d5-33dcee1aa872Post:5b1be316-7ae4-4078-86aa-4b10a6347cbc">Re: Help, my future bride needs advice</a>:
    [QUOTE]This is your wedding too.  I agree that you should be involved in the planning as you want to be, and your FI's mother has no right to tell you to stay out of it. She uses money as a way to control things.  Your FI needs to see that. It sounds like your FI has A LOT of growing up to do. <strong> I'm a firm believer of knowing how to live independently, and I don't think your FI will ever have a chance to do that.  Therefore, she will always be a doormat.   First things first- FI needs to grow up and get a backbone.  This is the bigger issue, not the wedding.
    </strong>Posted by lindseyann410[/QUOTE]

    And as things stand now, she'll never have that opportunity. She's going from her parents' house and them making all of her decisions for her directly to your house and you making all of her decisions for her. This little birdie never got pushed out of the nest to learn to fly on her own.
  • MairePoppyMairePoppy Connecticut mod
    Moderator Knottie Warrior 5000 Comments 500 Love Its
    edited December 2011
    Silenti-your fi posted several days ago about this issue. She received excellent advise. Give her the opportunity to sever the apron strings. This is something she needs to do, herself. You can't do it for her or push her to do it on your time table.

    Your fi has not had the same opportunity that you have had to live independently, so you will need to be patient with her. I agree with Ziti that your fi needs to learn how to fly on her own.
                       
  • zitiqueenzitiqueen member
    Knottie Warrior 2500 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_future-bride-needs-advice?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:357Discussion:46f20693-1ebe-4d57-82d5-33dcee1aa872Post:c264411d-41db-4bc9-a3e1-432a18f69afd">Re: Help, my future bride needs advice</a>:
    [QUOTE]Silenti-your fi posted several days ago about this issue. Posted by MairePoppy[/QUOTE]

    Link?
  • MairePoppyMairePoppy Connecticut mod
    Moderator Knottie Warrior 5000 Comments 500 Love Its
    edited December 2011
    Ziti- I hope this link works. If not, scroll down about 10 posts to 'Mom Issues.'


    http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_mom-issues-1
                       
  • steffenfamsteffenfam member
    100 Comments
    edited December 2011
    1)  I think pre-marital counseling is quite important.
    2)  Seriously, have you considered eloping?
  • blush64blush64 member
    Sixth Anniversary 500 Comments
    edited December 2011
    If you are Catholic and want to raise your future children Catholic I would stop this relationship until the religion thing is sorted out. 

    If her mother is like this now, what happens when there is a gandchild to think about.

    This is the marriage of you and you FI, her parents should be told "no thanks" for their contribution. Pay for everything yourselves.

    Really think about what you want, tell your FI what you are feeling. ASk her to do some soul searching and decide what she wants.  If what you both want is the same, continue and pay for your own wedding.
  • zitiqueenzitiqueen member
    Knottie Warrior 2500 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_future-bride-needs-advice?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:357Discussion:46f20693-1ebe-4d57-82d5-33dcee1aa872Post:ffb530c9-9a56-468c-990d-2bb215c715b2">Re: Help, my future bride needs advice</a>:
    [QUOTE]Yes, we have actually been considering eloping.  We have been discussing pushing the wedding back a year to give her more time to finish school and get a job...It would also give her more opportunity to become more independent from her parents.  She is going to talk to her parents on Wednesday...
    Posted by Silentii[/QUOTE]

    Have you discussed her moving out and living on her own for a year or two, completely independent of her parents <em>and you</em>? Paying her own rent? Changing her own lightbulbs? Dealing with the cable company all by herself? Killing her own spiders?
  • edited December 2011
    She lives with you but still excepts money from her parents for living expences? Prehaps she should use the money to get a small apartment and grow into her own person. Sounds like both you and the mother have demanding and over bearing issues. A wedding is one day in your life and yes it should be special but untill you learn to bend a bit you are going to have a very unhappy future with your inlaws. Pick your battles and ask yourself is this really going to matter in 5 years.
  • edited December 2011

    I expected as much from you because everyone did not agree with you.

  • zitiqueenzitiqueen member
    Knottie Warrior 2500 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_future-bride-needs-advice?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:357Discussion:46f20693-1ebe-4d57-82d5-33dcee1aa872Post:163a7340-65cd-4b4b-822b-d814fa62494d">Re: Help, my future bride needs advice</a>:
    [QUOTE]I first want to thank you for the attempted help from everyone here.  I'd like to end with a couple points: (1) Seriously you suggested that I just end this relationship of 5 years!? go F yourself. (2) Her mother is going through menopause which I haven't mentioned...so she is abnormally irrational; i.e. [explaining to her mother calmly] wont work .  (3) I don't compromise, I broker win-win solutions which is exactly why I am so sucessful.  (4) She has her own place, and has lived on her own. (5) In my family, money does not equal control.  Thank you all for the help.  I will be kindly ignoring it since it does not fit within the scope/complexity/need of the situation. 
    Posted by Silentii[/QUOTE]

    Why does she live with you if she has her own place? Which place are her parents paying for, hers or yours? Both?
  • MairePoppyMairePoppy Connecticut mod
    Moderator Knottie Warrior 5000 Comments 500 Love Its
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_future-bride-needs-advice?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:357Discussion:46f20693-1ebe-4d57-82d5-33dcee1aa872Post:163a7340-65cd-4b4b-822b-d814fa62494d">Re: Help, my future bride needs advice</a>:
    [QUOTE]I first want to thank you for the attempted help from everyone here.  I'd like to end with a couple points: (1) Seriously you suggested that I just end this relationship of 5 years!? go F yourself. <strong>No one said that, we urged to give your fi time to resolve the issues with her parents.</strong> <strong>The rude comment was uncalled for. </strong>(2) Her mother is going through menopause which I haven't mentioned...so she is abnormally irrational; i.e. [explaining to her mother calmly] wont work .  <strong>And what's your excuse? </strong>(3) I don't compromise, I broker win-win solutions which is exactly why I am so sucessful.  <strong>That's unfortunate for your fi. She is caught between parents that do not compromise and a fi that does not compromise.</strong> <span style="font-weight:bold;">I can see why she is so stressed out.</span>(4) She has her own place, and has lived on her own. <strong>Then why are her parents paying for her to live with you now?</strong> (5) In my family, money does not equal control.  <span style="font-weight:bold;">That's great, but your family does not get to set the standard for everyone else. Her family obviously feels differently about money. </span>
    Thank you all for the help. <span style="font-weight:bold;">You're welcome.</span> I will be kindly ignoring it since it does not fit within the scope/complexity/need of the situation. 
    Posted by Silentii[/QUOTE] <span style="font-weight:bold;"> Good luck, then. </span>
                       
  • zitiqueenzitiqueen member
    Knottie Warrior 2500 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_future-bride-needs-advice?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:357Discussion:46f20693-1ebe-4d57-82d5-33dcee1aa872Post:163a7340-65cd-4b4b-822b-d814fa62494d">Re: Help, my future bride needs advice</a>:
    [QUOTE]  (3) I don't compromise, I broker win-win solutions which is exactly why I am so sucessful.  Posted by Silentii[/QUOTE]

    Oh, this doesn't make you sound at all like a raging douchebag.
  • zitiqueenzitiqueen member
    Knottie Warrior 2500 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    edited December 2011
    Your OP was quoted. Nice try. No win-win for you.
  • 8daysaweek8daysaweek member
    1000 Comments Fourth Anniversary
    edited December 2011
    Did you seriously just say that your MIL can't be reasoned with because she is going through menopause? What a disgustingly misogynistic thing to say. You do realize that plenty of women are menopausal and still act reasonably and rationally right? Seriously, it's happening all around you. She's in menopause FFS not the terrible twos.
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