Wedding Customs & Traditions Forum

Premarital Counseling DILEMMA!

My fiance and I have lived together for nearly 3 years and are engaged to get married next summer!! We've got our venues booked, budget set, etc., but now we've hit a HUGE block in the road. My fiance wanted this pastor that mentored him as a teen and led him to leading worhsip at his church growing up. We recently met with him and because we live together, he said we'd either have (1) live apart until married, which is a year away OR (2) get legally married within the next 2-4 weeks with a little ceremony in his office, proceeding with marriage counseling then doing the big ceremony/reception in July of next year. In his eyes, with our choice to live together as Christians, we've decided to step out from under the full blessings of the lord. Getting married now would eleviate any temptation and allow for blessings to flow freely on our relationship through the process.

Problem is....we aren't wanting to do either!! Financially we are concerned about both. We are paying for our wedding ourselves and living apart would competely eliminate any chance to save. Also to me, getting married technically then getting "married" again a year later really doesn't make sense to me. Nor does it make sense to do marriage counseling afterwards. I have 2 boys so getting married now would affect our tax status as well as insurance, housing, etc. All stuff we know will change once we get married, but without having to save for a wedding it'll be fine then!! I guess my question is....should we feel bad or cursed to decline the offer from his pastor and find a pastor that will agree to counsel us? Yes we live together, but due to our faith we have-from day 1- agreed that we will not have premarital sex and we haven't!! To me, that's what is important, not the fact that we live together! He thinks we're being selfish and not getting married because it wont be the way we want it and that we're ignoring Gods plan for us. To me, it just doesn't feel right!! It feels rushed and not the way it should be. I'm sure we're not the only couple who has ever lived together before getting married......   We are STRESSED to the max with this decision. Needing guidance.... ;)

Re: Premarital Counseling DILEMMA!

  • I personally wouldn't want a pastor that acted that way toward me to marry me or do counseling with me. I know in some churches (like the Catholic church) they are strict on things like living together beforehand, etc., so I could understand them not wanting to marry you if you aren't upholding their beliefs in their eyes. However I do also agree his "compromise" to marry you really quick and then do a second "fake" wedding later is absolutely absurd.

    I would tell him thanks but no thanks and find a different pastor to marry you. Even if he was a part of FI's life growing up, your beliefs obviously do not mesh with his and it doesn't sound like he is going to back down, so I would probably look elsewhere. You can always have a non-religious officiant marry you.


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  • To the bolded question, I think you should be using a pastor that believes the same things that you do.  If you don't believe you are being bad Christians by living together as your pastor says, then you don't see eye to eye with your officiant.  There are officiants out there who don't take issue with this, so I would find someone who agrees with you.  Your other options are to follow his wishes or lie to him, neither of which will be a good start to your union if you don't agree with him.
  • It doesn't seem like you are in agreement with this pastor and I think you should look for a pastor that is more in agreement with your lifestyle. 
    I totally understand the memories your FI has with this pastor, but he isn't young anymore. He has made choices that his pastor doesn't think is a good idea, so perhaps it's best to part ways and find a pastor that is more your guys' speed.
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  • My priest would not marry us because we lived together. I found someone who would.
     
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  • Find a new pastor!
  • I vote for finding a new pastor that will accept your living arrangements and wedding plans as is.

    *I felt sorry for my husband before I met him. Take a number.*
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  • I know a lot of priests and religious ministers ask just that you live chastely while you're not married (which you said you are), but there are some who will require you to move out.

    If you really wanted to, you could probably find another roommate to live with until the wedding to save money (I'm not saying you have to, just that it's possible if you REALLY wanted this pastor).

    I agree that the second option, the legal ceremony then fake wedding later is absurd.  It seems even more absurd for a christian minister to suggest such a thing.


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  • I'm guessing he is from a particularly conservative faith which is fine.  The problem is you guys arent on the same page he is.  I would definitely find a pastor with whom you agree, but I would also ask this one why he feels it is fine to participate in a lie to your guests.  I say that under the assumption that he is proposing this little ceremony in his office be kept secret.

    I can tell you as a MOB, that if a pastor came up iwth an idea like and it robbed me of seeing my child take their vows I would be livid and he would see a new meaning in the term "mama bear."

    Seems like this is his best shot at working with you but I think it is an incredibly poor plan and I REALLY encourage you not to take this away from your family and  yourselves.  (not to mention your guests).
  • Every demonination is different and every church within the denomination is different.  People hit hard on the Catholic Church but our parish and priest are completely fine with us living together (even went as far as assuming we were living together and having sex when we first spoke with absolutely no judgement).  

    I would never change my life in such a way that I didnt agree with for that one priest when there are thousands more out there who are more accepting and agree with the choices you have made. 
  • 1) Where do you attend church now? Why are you not being married by that minister? If you feel comfortable with that church and that minister, then that is where you should stay, and not seek out someone who was important to your FI years upon years ago.

    2) If you are not attending church now, why is it important for you to be married by a Christian minister? Is it simply to satifsy some lingering guilt that you feel due to your Christian upbringing, despite the fact that you may have lapsed? If so, reconsider putting yourself through that. There are counseling programs that do not require a minister or church attendance.

    3) Is it important for you to attend church post-wedding? If it's not, then why, again, are you seeking to be married by a Christian minister? If it is important to attend church as a family, then I really think that you should seek out and find a place to worship --- church community and a pastor that fits you and your FI --- BEFORE you start counseling. 

    Church shop. There is no shame in it. Find a church community and a set of clergy that speaks to you. Find a set of people who believe what your believe. That way, the counseling that you get will actually bring you together and benefit you, and not drive you apart.
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_premarital-counseling-dilemma?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:a57631c3-6cb6-432b-8a23-bd390880dcb5Post:ceffb887-31dc-4caa-8d0f-b0a62ec2c059">Re: Premarital Counseling DILEMMA!</a>:
    [QUOTE]Every demonination is different and every church within the denomination is different.  People hit hard on the Catholic Church but our parish and priest are completely fine with us living together (even went as far as assuming we were living together and having sex when we first spoke with absolutely no judgement).   I would never change my life in such a way that I didnt agree with for that one priest when there are thousands more out there who are more accepting and agree with the choices you have made. 
    Posted by tess6373[/QUOTE]<div>
    </div><div>You are very lucky. I had the opposite experience. And it's not like, in the Catholic Church, you can just ask another priest to marry you if you have trouble or if your priest rubs you the wrong way or judges you for using birth control. You can't just google, "Liberal priest," and ship one in from another diocese from across the state.

    </div>
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  • aragx6aragx6 member
    2500 Comments 5 Love Its Combo Breaker
    ^We honestly haven't even found it to be diocese specific, but rather at the church level. We have Catholic friends all around the St. Louis diocese and they've had wildly different experiences. Obviously that's harder if you're in a rural area or a smaller/less Catholic city.
    Lizzie
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_premarital-counseling-dilemma?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:a57631c3-6cb6-432b-8a23-bd390880dcb5Post:ffaa4fbb-5225-4b57-81eb-58364edf72a0">Re: Premarital Counseling DILEMMA!</a>:
    [QUOTE]^We honestly haven't even found it to be diocese specific, but rather at the church level. We have Catholic friends all around the St. Louis diocese and they've had wildly different experiences. Obviously that's harder if you're in a rural area or a smaller/less Catholic city.
    Posted by aragx6[/QUOTE]

    <div>The word I should have used was "parish." But yes.</div>
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  • annie912annie912 member
    100 Comments
    edited July 2012
    I have a real problem with his logic in option 2 " get legally married within the next 2-4 weeks with a little ceremony in his office, proceeding with marriage counseling then doing the big ceremony/reception in July of next year. "

    If he's willing to do a "little ceremony" which makes you both legally married and, in his view, married in the eyes of God now, before you've done all the church required pre-marital prep, then why do the prep? If he thinks it's important enough for you to do it before the "big wedding", why wouldn't it be important enough to do before the "little ceremony"?

    (I said "in his view" above because I still have trouble with the concept that God only considers people married if they get married in the church, but I'm a recovering Catholic so take what I say with a grain of salt.)
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  • Lisa50Lisa50 member
    2500 Comments 5 Love Its Combo Breaker
    I don't mean to offend, but this "pastor" sounds a bit sketchy.  Offering a legal ceremony in his office quickly, have counseling then another ceremony??  I agree with PPs, find someone else to perform your ceremony.
  • Thanks all! I've really realized over the past few days how weird it is to jump into this within the next 2 weeks while we originally planned for a year to prepare. This will be my 2nd marriage and to me the success part is a HUGE deal to me!! I want the next year to prepare ourselves for success. I see premarital counseling as a way for us to explore and discuss lots of things before we legally dive into marriage. I really feel that we should spend the next year preparing ourselves for success. If for some reason something were to go wildy wrong through counseling then we can freely part without a divorce, etc! Yes we've been together for 3 years, but I don't think marriage should be jumped into in 2 weeks...

    At this point, he sees getting married in the next 2-4 weeks a viable option to "do things the right way." I say no way! I know, like many huge issues we'll face in our journey, we'll make a decision that is right, but keep us in your prayers!! Embarassed
  • It sounds like you and FI are just not on the same page. I suggest premarital counseling with a different officiant. Or, at the very least, couples counseling with a good counselor/therapist. It's always good to have someone objectional to talk to and help you guys to compromise.
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  • Wow, this guy sounds like one fantastic mentor!!

    I more than understand that your fiance wants to have someone hwo means something to him lead your ceremony...this was the case with me and the Deacon in the Catholic church where we married.  He didn't refuse to marry us, though he did put out the Catholic disclaimer that we should live apart for a month or so before we got married (which I think he just had to do as a CYA thing, which we didn't do, and that was okay.).  The non-clergical people who did the pre-cana we had to go to made a lot of terrible comments about ocuples who live together before marriage, which really turned off the 90% of the couples in the room who were living together.

    NO, you should NOT feel cursed because of this pastor's beliefs.  You should not have someone involed in the joining of you in marriage who clearly does not support you.  Find yourselves a mentor who you can BOTH feel supported by and who can lead your ceremony with the dignity and confidence you deserve.
  • I'm sorry, but this guy sounds a little shady. He's willing to marry you now when you've been living together but not in a year when you've been living together? So in his mind it's fine to live together for X amount of time but not Y amount of time? That's weird.

    You should be comfortable with the person who is marrying you. My FI and I are Catholic, and our priest never once asked us if we live together, have "been" together, etc. We met with him when we planned the wedding, and all he asked was if we had been honest with each other about our pasts. At our pre-cana, the deacon never asked who lived together or anything like that. FI and I were the only couple who lived apart. In fact, two of the couples already had kids together. There is no reason for your pastor to make you feel ashamed.
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  • mcda04mcda04 member
    Fifth Anniversary 1000 Comments 25 Love Its Name Dropper
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_premarital-counseling-dilemma?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:36Discussion:a57631c3-6cb6-432b-8a23-bd390880dcb5Post:41ac1817-b0cc-4cbb-be2f-4d422fdc0f32">Premarital Counseling DILEMMA!</a>:
    [QUOTE]My fiance and I have lived together for nearly 3 years and are engaged to get married next summer!! We've got our venues booked, budget set, etc., but now we've hit a HUGE block in the road. My fiance wanted this pastor that mentored him as a teen and led him to leading worhsip at his church growing up. We recently met with him and because we live together, he said we'd either have (1) live apart until married, which is a year away OR (2) get legally married within the next 2-4 weeks with a little ceremony in his office, proceeding with marriage counseling then doing the big ceremony/reception in July of next year. In his eyes, with our choice to live together as Christians, we've decided to step out from under the full blessings of the lord. Getting married now would eleviate any temptation and allow for blessings to flow freely on our relationship through the process. Problem is....we aren't wanting to do either!! Financially we are concerned about both. We are paying for our wedding ourselves and living apart would competely eliminate any chance to save. Also to me, getting married technically then getting "married" again a year later really doesn't make sense to me. Nor does it make sense to do marriage counseling afterwards. I have 2 boys so getting married now would affect our tax status as well as insurance, housing, etc. All stuff we know will change once we get married, but without having to save for a wedding it'll be fine then!! I guess my question is....should we feel bad or cursed to decline the offer from his pastor and find a pastor that will agree to counsel us? Yes we live together, but due to our faith we have-from day 1- agreed that we will not have premarital sex and we haven't!! To me, that's what is important, not the fact that we live together! He thinks we're being selfish and not getting married because it wont be the way we want it and that we're ignoring Gods plan for us. To me, it just doesn't feel right!! It feels rushed and not the way it should be. I'm sure we're not the only couple who has ever lived together before getting married......   We are STRESSED to the max with this decision. Needing guidance.... ;)
    Posted by alaytham[/QUOTE]
    Find a new pastor. This just doesn't make sense. It's Pre-marital counseling, he should be able to provide this regardless of whether or not you're living together.
    I am Catholic and and because we have kids together, we have to go do two couples retreats instead of Pre-Cana but our Church never suggested we do something like this. My SIL however had to marry in the courthouse one month before her Catholic Ceremony.
  • The bit about getting married in his office and getting counseling afterward is really weird.  Other than that, there's nothing wrong with the choices he's given you.  Different churches promote different beliefs and have their own rules, and you have the choice to abide by the rules or find a church that is a better fit for you.

    Why don't you get married by the pastor of the church you attend regularly together?  Presumably you chose that church because it aligns with your values and morals, and since your faith is so important to you as a couple, that makes a lot more sense than having the ceremony performed by someone who has a relationship only with your fiance.

  • Sorry to double post- I just had a question for you.  In this quote:

    He thinks we're being selfish and not getting married because it wont be the way we want it and that we're ignoring Gods plan for us. To me, it just doesn't feel right!! It feels rushed and not the way it should be.

    To whom does "he" refer?  The pastor, or your fiance?
  • Once you're married, you're married. I don't get the whole "tiny celebration to make it legal with big party later" thing. That sounds like something horny, religious teens might do for the sake of having sex.

    My question is, did the pastor assume you were living together as man and wife? Because if he did, I can see his freak out. Don't agree with it, but can see how that would happen.  If you're just living together as roommates, or in separate rooms, then it's none of his business and not his job to try to stop you from being tempted.
  • emeejeeayenemeejeeayen member
    1000 Comments 25 Love Its Name Dropper First Anniversary
    edited July 2012
    My first response was to suggest you just lie to the man, but then I remembered you're not supposed to do that. (Catholic school did wonders for me, clearly.) 

    But really, there is very little in the Bible that refers to sex before marriage explicitly (if you can call the lines in Corinthians referring to it explicit?), and there certainly is not a word that says you cannot be roommates with the man you're going to marry! Who is he to judge your ability to avoid temptation? Find someone else to marry you. 
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  • Ha, my first response was lie as well... I mean, You should find someone to marry you who aligns with your ideals.... that would be the BEST case scenario. I have had MANY friends who have run into similar situations, so fortunately we were well prepared, and we did what any lapsed catholic would do... we lied. We said FI lives with his mom.

    I don't know if you have family or friends local, but you can just give the parish another address, I mean, who are they to know. Really they just want you to go to church together and put $$ in the basket.

    I know i'm going to hell.
  • Is there an option to have the ceremony in his office be simply a religious "marriage", and save the "legal" marraige for when you were originally planning? IF that was an option, I'd go with that if you're not opposed, as then you will be married in the eyes of God, but not have to deal with the legal changes that marriage brings unti you originally planned.
    Praying for a miracle!
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