Catholic Question

jjeanhilton

Hi Ladies,

I'm hoping that there are a few of you out there that may have more information on this topic they can share. My Fiance was raised Catholic, and while he doesn't practice anymore his parents still do. I was raised protestant but as an adult don't consider myself one to follow a religion. We booked a ceremony/reception combo site outdoors for next year, and last night his parents sat us down and said they can't come to our wedding.

I essentially sat in silence while they explained that they don't understand what it is we are asking them to witness. That as practicing Catholics they cannot support our wedding knowing that the Church won't recognize it. And if they were to come, they would be violating their conscious.

I'm trying to do research online to find out how true this is... and I plan on meeting with a priest to talk it over with them. I really have never heard of this before. I have heard of people not wanting to support. But according to them they whole heartidly want to, but are unable.

Has anyone else ever faced this?

GoodLuckBear14

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_catholic-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:36Discussion:a5bbfd65-d490-41fe-984f-7b9bebc44a3fPost:11552d5e-dce3-4867-99b7-95afaddcb266">Catholic Question</a>:
[QUOTE]Hi Ladies, I'm hoping that there are a few of you out there that may have more information on this topic they can share. My Fiance was raised Catholic, and while he doesn't practice anymore his parents still do. I was raised protestant but as an adult don't consider myself one to follow a religion. We booked a ceremony/reception combo site outdoors for next year, and last night his parents sat us down and said they can't come to our wedding. I essentially sat in silence while they explained that they don't understand what it is we are asking them to witness. That as practicing Catholics they cannot support our wedding knowing that the Church won't recognize it. And if they were to come, they would be violating their conscious. I'm trying to do research online to find out how true this is... and I plan on meeting with a priest to talk it over with them. I really have never heard of this before. I have heard of people not wanting to support. But according to them they whole heartidly want to, but are unable. Has anyone else ever faced this?
Posted by jjeanhilton[/QUOTE]

Your FI needs to have a serious sit down with his parents ASAP.  This sounds like a guilt trip they are trying to throw on him to make him marry in the church - which the two of you are obviouisly not doing since you are being married at the reception site.  I am going to also assume that your FI knows that by not marrying in the church he will no longer be in a state of grace and eligible to receive sacraments.

Here's the thing.  The church will not recognize your wedding unless it is performed within the church.  Some Catholics care about this, some of us don't.  DH and I are Greek Orthodox and Roman Catholic respectively.  Neither one of us was attached enough to our religion to ask the other to marry in the "foriegn" church so we had a non-denominational ceremony.  Nobody turned down the invitation because we were not being married in the church.

If your FILs are truly so religious that they cannot witness the marriage of their son, I'm afraid that is on them and I feel sorry for your FI.  There is nothing in church doctrine that forbids them from attending.

FluffyGumDrop2

I've heard that Catholic weddings can only take place in a church, but I've never heard anything about Catholics not being allowed to attend an outdoor wedding. 

I agree with the previous poster that your fiance should talk to his parents. Keep in mind though, that their religious beliefs could and probably will pop up at some later point in your married life as well. What if you don't want to raise your children in a Catholic church?

I hope it works out for you!

jjeanhilton

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_catholic-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:36Discussion:a5bbfd65-d490-41fe-984f-7b9bebc44a3fPost:bf559d0f-e893-44e8-b951-2e5121d6e536">Re: Catholic Question</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Catholic Question : Your FI needs to have a serious sit down with his parents ASAP.  This sounds like a guilt trip they are trying to throw on him to make him marry in the church - which the two of you are obviouisly not doing since you are being married at the reception site.  I am going to also assume that your FI knows that by not marrying in the church he will no longer be in a state of grace and eligible to receive sacraments. Here's the thing.  The church will not recognize your wedding unless it is performed within the church.  Some Catholics care about this, some of us don't.  DH and I are Greek Orthodox and Roman Catholic respectively.  Neither one of us was attached enough to our religion to ask the other to marry in the "foriegn" church so we had a non-denominational ceremony.  Nobody turned down the invitation because we were not being married in the church. If your FILs are truly so religious that they cannot witness the marriage of their son, I'm afraid that is on them and I feel sorry for your FI.  There is nothing in church doctrine that forbids them from attending.
Posted by GoodLuckBear14[/QUOTE]

That what it seems like to me. I kept my mouth shut because I didn't want to say anything hurtful that I might not mean and regret.. and FI was the bigger person and simply said (in so many words) "I'm sorry to hear that. I hope that changes, and maybe you can find a way to be there, but our wedding isn't changing to accomadate. Please know that we are opting for a nonreligious ceremony out of respect for you. Because going through the motions and not meaning them is a mortal sin." (Which, I'm not sure is entirely true, but neither of us would get anything out of a religious ceremony. It really would be to appease them.) They mentioned having the ability to come if a priest were to OK it. I really think I stopped listening as well at this point... I couldn't stop yelling in my head "This is your son!!"

FI also asked them if anyone else in the family feels this way, and they said no. I wanted to give them the beneift of the doubt.. but I really feel like they are guilting him. When we first started dating years ago and moved into together I remember his father sitting me down and say "you are putting us in a predicament, because while we would want to help our son (financially or otherwise if need be) we wouldn't want to help you, because you are not a member of this family until you proclaim that in front of God."

Which, to each their own beliefs, but to not show up? If there's nothing in the Church doctrine that forbids them that this is unacceptable. That's not how you treat family. I wish I knew more about the religion to have a better grasp of where they're coming from.. but I didn't think this sounded right in the least.

shawna127

Hey )  Sorry I know I'm not a part of this group.  But I was reading this and it made me remember that CW just had a big discussion on this a while ago.  Here is the link to the thread if your interested:  http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_so-going-to-non-catholic-weddings-of-catholics

Sorry that you're going through this! I hope everything works out )

Peledreamsofrain

What a horrible way to treat family. I hope they realize that they are alienating the very people that they may end up needing to rely on in old age. Family is there when life kicks you in the kidneys, and nobody much else usually shows up. i'm very sorry they are treati.g you this way.

MyNameIsNot

If you are catholic, a wedding outside of the church won't be recognized by the church.  That means the church considers you to be "living in sin" and you therefore aren't supposed to engage in any of the other sacraments (including communion) in the church.  For devout catholics, this is a big deal.  In any event, if he's not practicing, this doesn't matter.  He has the right idea, and responded correctly.  He shouldn't go through the motions to placate his parents' beliefs.  I agree that they are probably trying to guilt trip and are bluffing.  

My sister is going through the same thing with our dad.  She's decided that she just doesn't feel comfortable getting married in the church, and while she still considers herself a catholic, having her marriage recognized by the church is not important to her.  She takes the position that she has to follow her heart and her conscience, and not what someone else tells her she should do.  She's responding the same way your FI is, and is standing her ground.  Either dad will get over it and shut up, or he'll miss out.  If he misses his daughter's wedding because she won't do what he tells her to, that's his loss.  

Lisa50

I have not faced this, but plenty of other Catholics have (decades ago).  I agree with PP; it seems your FI's parents (or his mom) are trying to guilt trip him.

I am Catholic, married in the Church (first time) and, without benefit of annulment, married outside the Church (second time).  I have also taught Sunday school - all ages.

While it is true that the Catholic Church will only recognize your marriage as a sacrament if either (1) you are married in the Church or (2) you have a convalidation ceremony, your future in-laws are blowing smoke up your dress to take the position that they cannot attend whatever kind of ceremony you're hosting.  It's bullsh*t that simply attending their son's wedding will jeopardize their souls and send them to hell in the proverbial hand basket.  Ugh! 

To learn more (if you care to) contact the pastor at the local Catholic Church.  I don't think this is your issue, though.  This sounds like your FMIL's issue.  I am sorry you have to deal with this.

Good luck!

TheVirginians

I suggest you use the Catholic cultural board to get more info on this. Also, do what Lisa50 suggested and talk to a priest. If a Catholic priest will not discuss this with you, do you have any affiliation with any Protestant church where you could discuss this with a pastor, just to have a religious point of view? Could you both and the IL's meet with their priest to discuss their attending your non-denominational wedding? While he might try to encourage you to be married in his church, and explain the Catholic canon, it seems to me he should have the utmost concern for reconciling a family. Of course you do not want this issue to create a permanent rift between your FI and his parents as then all would have a great loss. That would be so sad. In the end, you and FI may just have to give 250% to get his parents on board with FI and your marriage, and not just wedding, but marriage.

TheVirginians

and, I forgot to add, we had a Catholic priest come to our Presbyterian church to take part in our wedding. We had to meet with my husband's priest in Boston, who then contacted the diocese, who then contacted the Georgia diocese, who then contacted the local priest to say it was okay. This was back in the dark ages. Honestly, if a priest can come to a Protestant wedding, why couldn't a parishioner go to a non-denominational wedding? As they can go to JOP wedding, this is essentially what you are asking them to witness. It might be a lot of work for you two, but in the end, it will be worth it to have your FI have a relationship with his parents. Sorry you are going through this. Please let us know how it works out.

jjeanhilton

Thank you all for the advice -- we will definitly be seeking out a meeting with a local priest to discuss. We certainly want them there, and it sounds like there are a few options for us. I agree, I don't want hostility or bad feelings in the long run. We just need to find the middle ground.

renegade gaucho

It's unfortunate that his parents feel that way, but it sounds like your fiance handled it correctly in standing by the decisions the two of you have made together.  I hope that things work out and they can attend your wedding.

bibliophile2010

I would read the linked discussion Shawna127 posted above. This is a subject many serious Cathloics struggle with, but the orthodox "rule" is that a Catholic may not attend the invalid wedding of a Catholic. It gives the appearance of supporting such marriages (totally different than supporting the relationship, btw) -- which premise this thread seems to support -- by telling other Catholics "it's okay, we'll support whatever willy-nilly marriage you try to enter into." Do all Catholics know/follow this rule? No. Are OP's FILs coming out of left field? Not at all.

Honestly, my H and I have discussed how heartbreaking this scenario would be. First, it would mean we failed in our duty to raise our child(ren) to be faithful Catholics. Second, it would mean having to make a heartbreaking decision between attending said child's wedding and violating our consciences.

AdeleDazeem

My mother is Lutheran.  She married my father, who is Catholic.  My father's sister (my aunt) is a nun.

They married in a Lutherin service with my aunt front and center. 

I find the OP's future inlaws to be ... some kind of -ist that I can't come up with.  But, no -ist is good.

HobokensFury

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_catholic-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:a5bbfd65-d490-41fe-984f-7b9bebc44a3fPost:c6c9cd69-7009-4736-9633-4d1bd575209a">Re: Catholic Question</a>:
[QUOTE]I would read the linked discussion Shawna127 posted above. This is a subject many serious Cathloics struggle with, but the orthodox "rule" is that a Catholic may not attend the invalid wedding of a Catholic. It gives the appearance of supporting such marriages (totally different than supporting the relationship, btw) -- which premise this thread seems to support -- by telling other Catholics "it's okay, we'll support whatever willy-nilly marriage you try to enter into." Do all Catholics know/follow this rule? No. Are OP's FILs coming out of left field? Not at all. Honestly, my H and I have discussed how heartbreaking this scenario would be. First, it would mean we failed in our duty to raise our child(ren) to be faithful Catholics. Second, it would mean having to make a heartbreaking decision between attending said child's wedding and violating our consciences.
Posted by bibliophile2010[/QUOTE]

We had a Catholic nun do a reading at our non church ceremony as well as 2 others in attendance. It seems to me that Catholic nuns would be aware of this so called "orthodox rule" and would not have attended if this were true. So it seems to me that you are pushing your own hidden agenda here using the church as a cover.

femme55

Yup, it would be an abomination for his parents to attend your wedding because Jesus just loved willy-nilly man-made religious doctrine/rules.  At the Last Supper, he also said "Do this in remembrance of me...unless of course you attend a wedding outside of man-made church walls; then you are beyond salvation."

Seriously, his parents are either attempting very un-Christ-like emotional blackmail or are brainwashed.  Your fiance handled it correctly and I'm sorry you have to deal with this.

itzMS

<div align="left">In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_catholic-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:36Discussion:a5bbfd65-d490-41fe-984f-7b9bebc44a3fPost:c6c9cd69-7009-4736-9633-4d1bd575209a">Re: Catholic Question</a>:
[QUOTE]I would read the linked discussion Shawna127 posted above. This is a subject many serious Cathloics struggle with, but the orthodox "rule" is that a Catholic may not attend the invalid wedding of a Catholic. It gives the appearance of supporting such marriages (totally different than supporting the relationship, btw) -- which premise this thread seems to support -- by telling other Catholics "it's okay, we'll support whatever willy-nilly marriage you try to enter into." Do all Catholics know/follow this rule? No. Are OP's FILs coming out of left field? Not at all. Honestly, my H and I have discussed how heartbreaking this scenario would be.<strong> First, it would mean we failed in our duty to raise our child(ren) to be faithful Catholics. Second, it would mean having to make a heartbreaking decision between attending said child's wedding and violating our consciences.
</strong>Posted by bibliophile2010[/QUOTE]

It's at this point where I disagree. Once the child becomes an adult, he or she is free to choose their own path without parental control. Up to age 18, did the parents take the child to Mass and provide him or her every feasible opportunity to learn & follow the Catholic faith? Yes? If so, I don't see how it would be in bad conscience to attend a non-denominational ceremony.</div>

jjeanhilton

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_catholic-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:36Discussion:a5bbfd65-d490-41fe-984f-7b9bebc44a3fPost:c6c9cd69-7009-4736-9633-4d1bd575209a">Re: Catholic Question</a>:
[QUOTE]I would read the linked discussion Shawna127 posted above. This is a subject many serious Cathloics struggle with, but the orthodox "rule" is that a Catholic may not attend the invalid wedding of a Catholic. It gives the appearance of supporting such marriages (totally different than supporting the relationship, btw) -- which premise this thread seems to support -- by telling other Catholics "it's okay, we'll support whatever willy-nilly marriage you try to enter into." Do all Catholics know/follow this rule? No. Are OP's FILs coming out of left field? Not at all. Honestly, my H and I have discussed how heartbreaking this scenario would be. First, it would mean we failed in our duty to raise our child(ren) to be faithful Catholics. Second, it would mean having to make a heartbreaking decision between attending said child's wedding and violating our consciences.
Posted by bibliophile2010[/QUOTE]

The link was incredibly helpful, but I'm still a little hazy in one area. My FI doesn't consider himself Catholic. Above you write that they cannot attend an invalid wedding of a Catholic, am I'm wondering where would we fall in that? Essentially, because neither of us consider ourselves Catholic, they would just be witnessing a union. Is that ok? Or, is it an issue, because he was once raised Catholic, and even though he doesn't consider himself one, they do and it would still be invalid?

GoodLuckBear14

<div align="left">In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_catholic-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:36Discussion:a5bbfd65-d490-41fe-984f-7b9bebc44a3fPost:c6c9cd69-7009-4736-9633-4d1bd575209a">Re: Catholic Question</a>:
[QUOTE]I would read the linked discussion Shawna127 posted above. This is a subject many serious Cathloics struggle with, but the orthodox "rule" is that a Catholic may not attend the invalid wedding of a Catholic. It gives the appearance of supporting such marriages (totally different than supporting the relationship, btw) -- which premise this thread seems to support -- by telling other Catholics "it's okay, we'll support whatever willy-nilly marriage you try to enter into." Do all Catholics know/follow this rule? No<strong>. Are OP's FILs coming out of left field? Not at all.</strong> Honestly, my H and I have discussed how heartbreaking this scenario would be. First, it would mean we failed in our duty to raise our child(ren) to be faithful Catholics. Second, it would mean having to make a heartbreaking decision between attending said child's wedding and violating our consciences.
Posted by bibliophile2010[/QUOTE]

Actually, yeah, they are.  With Hoboken there are at least two of us here who have aunts who are nuns and none of us have ever encountered this.  Just because you can find an obscure rule doesn't mean the parents aren't out of left field.

And I cannot believe for a second that anyone would be so heartless as to refuse to attend their own child's wedding because the child made the decision to not be a practicing Catholic for whatever reason.  Seriously?  It would bother your conscience to supoort the non-Catholic marriage of two adults but it doesn't bother your conscience to support an institution that spend decades, if not centuries, covering up horrendus crimes committed on its children? That is messed up.</div>

shawna127

I honestly don't think that biblio was trying to be rude.  She was just giving her opinion from a devout catholic point of view.  I believe that, that rule is actually in the catechism. If I get some time I will look tonight.  I'm really not trying to be rude but GL Bear I think that was very rude to jump straight to the sexual abuse scandal. Biblio wasn't offending anyone's religion so that was kind of unfair.  And we all know that religion is man made and therefore imperfect.  And really I am not trying to be rude I just feel like her post got misconstrued and then she was ganged up on, this is obviously a really tough subject.

Now on to the OP's next question.  Techinically, catholicism is like the marine corps.: once a marine always a marine/once a catholic, always a catholic.  However, that being said this is your guys' marriage.  If your FI is not a practicing catholic and/or doesn't follow the catholic churches teachings then it really shouldn't matter what the church says about your marriage being valid or not.  If you two decide the catholic church isn't the place for you then you two have obviously thought about it and have your own reasons for doing so, and that's all that matters.  The situation with the parents is very hard, I definitely see both sides.  I agree with Biblio in the fact that I would be devestated if my children gave up the faith I raised them in (but that's my personality), but I don't think I would be able to not go to my child's wedding.  That is just a difficult situation all around. I don't envy the position you're in.  And like I said if neither one of you claim to be catholic (and that's certainly okay )  ) then technically the rules of the church aren't going to make a difference.  Again, good luck I REALLY hope everything works out for the best and hopefully that helps.


Also:  Sorry for stepping on toes, this isn't even my board and I don't want to come off as rude. I apologize if I did! )

Jen4948

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_catholic-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:a5bbfd65-d490-41fe-984f-7b9bebc44a3fPost:649e35d1-c5a7-4759-96d2-d0030350e0f2">Re: Catholic Question</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Catholic Question : Actually, yeah, they are.  With Hoboken there are at least two of us here who have aunts who are nuns and none of us have ever encountered this.  Just because you can find an obscure rule doesn't mean the parents aren't out of left field. And I cannot believe for a second that anyone would be so heartless as to refuse to attend their own child's wedding because the child made the decision to not be a practicing Catholic for whatever reason.  Seriously? <strong> It would bother your conscience to supoort the non-Catholic marriage of two adults but it doesn't bother your conscience to support an institution that spend decades, if not centuries, covering up horrendus crimes committed on its children? That is messed up.</strong>
Posted by GoodLuckBear14[/QUOTE]

I think we'd better not go there.

OP, as for the parents and the Church's rules about whether or not they will allow a practicing Catholic to attend a non-Catholic wedding, I personally think that parents should attend their child's wedding, period.  Only serious illness should prevent it-not religious differences.  That's me though-I know I can't make that decision for anyone else.  Your FI's parents are as entitled to make the decision not to attend your wedding as you and your FI are to not marry in the Church.

If they decide that following a rule about not attending ceremonies in other traditions is more important than being at their own child's wedding and not recognizing that as a valid wedding, well, it's sad, but I guess they made up their minds and there really isn't anything you can do about that if they dig their heels in.  I'd dwell on those aspects of the wedding that make you and your FI happy and remember that you will have a lifetime together regardless of what the Church or your FILs think. 

HobokensFury

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_catholic-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:a5bbfd65-d490-41fe-984f-7b9bebc44a3fPost:649e35d1-c5a7-4759-96d2-d0030350e0f2">Re: Catholic Question</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Catholic Question : Actually, yeah, they are.  With Hoboken there are at least two of us here who have aunts who are nuns and none of us have ever encountered this.  Just because you can find an obscure rule doesn't mean the parents aren't out of left field. And I cannot believe for a second that anyone would be so heartless as to refuse to attend their own child's wedding because the child made the decision to not be a practicing Catholic for whatever reason.  Seriously?  It would bother your conscience to supoort the non-Catholic marriage of two adults but it doesn't bother your conscience to support an institution that spend decades, if not centuries, covering up horrendus crimes committed on its children? That is messed up.
Posted by GoodLuckBear14[/QUOTE]

DH's godmother is the nun that did the reading. She actually called to see how we were doing in the storm because I'm still out of work because of it and I actually asked her if she ever heard of this. She said no. The marriage was not in a church so it is not considered a sacrament but the RC church recognizes civil marriage as legally valid. She has never heard that a Catholic could not attend a civil wedding where the B&G are Catholic.

shawna127

Okay I'm back (I know everyone's probably rolling there eyes lol).  There is no where in canon law that says that forbids a catholic to attend an invalid wedding!


So that changes things for me.  While I can understand how the parents might be upset I honestly think they are doing more harm than good.  I think they are just pushing you two away, which is never a good thing.  I think, since they are coming from the catholic stand point that you or FI should tell them that, that actually isn't in canon law and you would really like their support and attendance.  I know it's hard to see your child pick a different faith, but they have to be confident in how they raised their child.  Again, I'm really sorry you guys are in this situation and maybe it will help that you have done some research on this so that you can come to them from the standpoint that "hey, no. This actually isn't what the church teaches."  Good luck again, you guys are in my prayers!

Kamakanani

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_catholic-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:a5bbfd65-d490-41fe-984f-7b9bebc44a3fPost:d9495d75-e959-4c3a-a473-b994d745d613">Re: Catholic Question</a>:
[QUOTE]I honestly don't think that biblio was trying to be rude.  She was just giving her opinion from a devout catholic point of view.  I believe that, that rule is actually in the catechism. If I get some time I will look tonight.  I'm really not trying to be rude but GL Bear I think that was very rude to jump straight to the sexual abuse scandal. Biblio wasn't offending anyone's religion so that was kind of unfair.  
Posted by shawna127[/QUOTE]<div>Not to try and gang up on GL Bear or anyone in particular (especially since I mostly lurk here), but I agree with the sentiment that I doubt biblio was trying to be rude.  I got the vibe that she was merely trying to put forth her opinion and beliefs on the subject.  Does this mean everyone has to agree with everyone?  No.  If everyone agreed, the world would be a boring place.</div><div>
</div><div>Now, to the subject of the OP and her FILs.  I sympathize, I really do.  I'm having the opposite issue, where FI and I are practicing Catholics, but his Catholic dad isn't being very supportive because I've gotten a divorce (though he hasn't made the effort to find out the larger situation or my present relationship with the Church).  Anyway, as a Catholic returning to the fold, I'm constantly in search of more information on the hows and whys behind the faith.  I found the following link (<a href="http://www.cuf.org/faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=137" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">clicky</a>), which could be a good basis to sit down with your FI's family and figure out exactly where they are having issues with your union with your FI.  Perhaps they aren't understanding your long term/life goal intent.  However, there doesn't appear to be a strict rule one way or the other.  Rather, as is the case in a variety of situations, this is a situation that the Church generally says to pray on and follow your conscience, based on the specific details of each instance.</div><div>
</div>

GoodLuckBear14

I'm sorry that I came off as rude but it truly blows my mind that someone would have a crisis of conscience if asked to attend her own child's non-Catholic wedding (as biblio said she would) yet has no problem obeying a rule of an institution that has been sooo wrong on so many things with the centuries of horrendus things the Catholic church has hidden (abuse) done by ommission (keeping silent as Hitler murdered millions) or flat out gave it's blessing (Crusades).  The best religious advice I ever received in my twelve years of Catholic school was from a Jesuit priest who told me to question absolutely everything in this world, including and especially Rome because a lot of the church's rules have nothing to do with Christ and his message of love.

mcda04

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_catholic-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:a5bbfd65-d490-41fe-984f-7b9bebc44a3fPost:11552d5e-dce3-4867-99b7-95afaddcb266">Catholic Question</a>:
[QUOTE]Hi Ladies, I'm hoping that there are a few of you out there that may have more information on this topic they can share. My Fiance was raised Catholic, and while he doesn't practice anymore his parents still do. I was raised protestant but as an adult don't consider myself one to follow a religion. We booked a ceremony/reception combo site outdoors for next year, and last night his parents sat us down and said they can't come to our wedding. I essentially sat in silence while they explained that they don't understand what it is we are asking them to witness. That as practicing Catholics they cannot support our wedding knowing that the Church won't recognize it. And if they were to come, they would be violating their conscious. I'm trying to do research online to find out how true this is... and I plan on meeting with a priest to talk it over with them. I really have never heard of this before. I have heard of people not wanting to support. But according to them they whole heartidly want to, but are unable. Has anyone else ever faced this?
Posted by jjeanhilton[/QUOTE]

I don't think it's a church rule that you can't witness a civil marriage, it's more their personal beliefs. OP, in our church, a civil union is NOT recognized and we'd still be living in sin if we lived together without receiving our marriage sacrament.

My in-laws are going through the same thing with my BIL and his FI. MY FIL has told me that he will not attend because he does not agree with their religious beliefs. BIL was raised Catholic and has received baptism, communion, and confirmation sacraments but like your FI, he feels the Catholic church is not what he wants to follow. He was also very harsh on BIL saying he wasn't going to "waste" his time attending a civil marriage that isn't worth anything in the eyes of God. I thought this was very mean and rude of him but i didn't say anything out of respect for my IL's. This happened a few months ago and i'm still trying to convince my MIL to go to her SON'S wedding. I know it's something they will regret down the road.

shawna127

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_catholic-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:36Discussion:a5bbfd65-d490-41fe-984f-7b9bebc44a3fPost:e240b34c-a2ca-4515-91c1-990a082858f7">Re: Catholic Question</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm sorry that I came off as rude but it truly blows my mind that someone would have a crisis of conscience if asked to attend her own child's non-Catholic wedding (as biblio said she would) yet has no problem obeying a rule of an institution that has been sooo wrong on so many things with the centuries of horrendus things the Catholic church has hidden (abuse) done by ommission (keeping silent as Hitler murdered millions) or flat out gave it's blessing (Crusades).  The best religious advice I ever received in my twelve years of Catholic school was from a Jesuit priest who told me to question absolutely everything in this world, including and especially Rome because a lot of the church's rules have nothing to do with Christ and his message of love.
Posted by GoodLuckBear14[/QUOTE]

I am having a really hard time not taking offense to this.  It is obvious that you do not like the catholic church, which is fine.  However, I consider myself a fairly intelligent person. A fairly intelligent person who agrees with the catholic church on just about everything I have looked into on why they believe what they do. As I said before, religion is man-made and therefore imperfect. I also don't think that Biblio (I obviously can't speak for her) was saying she would do anything the church said without question.  I just think it's unfair to basically say that if you agree with the catholic church you are stupid.  I used to wholeheartedly disagree with the church on birth control, then I decided to read (mostly out of spite) why they thought the way that did.  Now I couldn't agree with the church's teaching on BC more.  But that is a whole other tangent, my point is that I find it offensive that I am somehow stupid because I agree with the church teachings.  

Maybe I'm being overly sensitive and should just put on my big girl panties and get over it.  but that was my 2 cents.

MyNameIsNot

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_catholic-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:a5bbfd65-d490-41fe-984f-7b9bebc44a3fPost:0f8ec248-14c4-47fd-98d0-c1cdb2854ae5">Re: Catholic Question</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Catholic Question : I am having a really hard time not taking offense to this.  It is obvious that you do not like the catholic church, which is fine.  However, I consider myself a fairly intelligent person. A fairly intelligent person who agrees with the catholic church on just about everything I have looked into on why they believe what they do. As I said before, religion is man-made and therefore imperfect. I also don't think that Biblio (I obviously can't speak for her) was saying she would do anything the church said without question.  I just think it's unfair to basically say that if you agree with the catholic church you are stupid.  I used to wholeheartedly disagree with the church on birth control, then I decided to read (mostly out of spite) why they thought the way that did.  Now I couldn't agree with the church's teaching on BC more.  But that is a whole other tangent, my point is that I find it offensive that I am somehow stupid because I agree with the church teachings.   Maybe I'm being overly sensitive and should just put on my big girl panties and get over it.  but that was my 2 cents.
Posted by shawna127[/QUOTE]

<div>Yep, you are being overly sensitve.  </div><div>
</div><div>Obviously, the church is far from perfect.  The pedophilia thing is a perfect example of how imperfect the church can be.  As Christians, believers have a duty to consider was is being said to them, rather than to just follow blindly and ignore who it might hurt.  One shouldn't put their conscience in a closet upon joining any church.  Regardless of whether the hurt party is a bunch of alter boys or your adult child, hiding behind the church is no excuse for doing something wrong.  </div><div>
</div><div>These parents should be ashamed of themselves.  OP and her FI are under no obligation to try to placate the parents.  They are being hurtful and manipulative, and trying to blame it on someone else.  </div>

shawna127

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_catholic-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:36Discussion:a5bbfd65-d490-41fe-984f-7b9bebc44a3fPost:542f1b03-1327-4ee4-8476-2c8598bd286e">Re: Catholic Question</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Catholic Question : Yep, you are being overly sensitve.   Obviously, the church is far from perfect.  The pedophilia thing is a perfect example of how imperfect the church can be.  As Christians, believers have a duty to consider was is being said to them, rather than to just follow blindly and ignore who it might hurt.  One shouldn't put their conscience in a closet upon joining any church.  Regardless of whether the hurt party is a bunch of alter boys or your adult child, hiding behind the church is no excuse for doing something wrong.   These parents should be ashamed of themselves.  OP and her FI are under no obligation to try to placate the parents.  They are being hurtful and manipulative, and trying to blame it on someone else.  
Posted by MyNameIsNot[/QUOTE]

hence, the reason I said I don't blindly follow but research first.

theelusive1

So since your fh is not a practicing Catholic. They are going to a non Catholic wedding.   Do they not go to other non Catholic weddings?  I assume they only go to Catholic weddings?  I admire you for holding your tongue.  I know mine would have flipped on them.   Let them stay home. This is all on them.

MyNameIsNot

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_catholic-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:36Discussion:a5bbfd65-d490-41fe-984f-7b9bebc44a3fPost:1c72b95b-0d28-4d4d-8ac0-7bdea73a17ca">Re: Catholic Question</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Catholic Question : hence, the reason I said I don't blindly follow but research first.
Posted by shawna127[/QUOTE]

<div>But this post is not about you.  It's about OP's FILs.  They are either 1) blindly following something they've heard or 2) trying to manipulate OP and her FI using the church.  </div><div>
</div><div>Neither is ok.  </div>