Probably shouldn't ask but...

fperez7542

I can't help it...I've only been engaged 2 months and our wedding is set for September.  I do have 5 BM and 5 GM.  My question is a general question since I am just getting the hang of wedding etiquette and all the other stuff that comes with it.

I get that BMs are only suppose to buy their dress and show up.  Is this a new custom?  Was it different years ago?  The reason I ask is because I have read MANY MANY posts about BMs duties, work, and responsibilities but then the brides on here go at it in the post.  Nearly tearing the person who posted to shreds.  

I don't expect my BMs to do anything, they did an engagement party for us last week.  I heard comments of a bridal and bachelorette party which I really appreciate.  We are really close friends and I'm the first out of our group getting married.  My girls are being amazing, we talk daily even before even getting engaged and now if I don't reach out and sort of keep in the loop they get upset.  They want to be involved, they want to help.  I thought the bridal party were suppose to be the ones dearests to you and that's why I asked them. 

Thing is if they are dearest to you, wouldn't they want to know of your wedding, how you are doing, if you may need help or at least ask for opinions? like I said I don't expect it from them but they are doing everything most girls here say BMs shouldn't need to do.  I think my girls would kill me and be extremely hurt if I told them you are only required to buy your dress and show up. 

So I know what is customary now for BMs but did this change? or is it a culture thing?

AddieCake

Many times, your bridal party will WANT to help you (mine did) and OFFER to help you (mine did), but so will non-bridal party members sometimes, too. Friends help each other. One of my biggest helpers was our groomswoman's partner. She was not required or expected to help me at all, but she fell all over herself to help me in the 2 days before my wedding when I needed it the most. 

I don't know, but I assume bridal parties helped more in the past (I doubt they were ever actually required to) b/c they had more time. In this age, people are busier, I think, and they just have too many of their own things going on to have much time to help plan someone else's party. The problem is that what has happened is that b/c of people being helpful in the past, entitled brat brides are coming across these archaic lists or stories from Great Aunt Mildred and are DEMANDING their wedding party members help them. And that's where it gets ugly.  

itzMS

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_probably-shouldnt-ask-but?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:37Discussion:2acc589d-ba76-42a3-8a86-9e0cbf4ecc6cPost:1ad346db-4795-4e6f-82f0-fcfe9cb7a389">Probably shouldn't ask but...</a>:
[QUOTE]I can't help it...I've only been engaged 2 months and our wedding is set for September.  I do have 5 BM and 5 GM.  My question is a general question since I am just getting the hang of wedding etiquette and all the other stuff that comes with it. I get that BMs are only suppose to buy their dress and show up.  Is this a new custom?  Was it different years ago?  The reason I ask is because I have read MANY MANY posts about BMs duties, work, and responsibilities but then the brides on here go at it in the post.  Nearly tearing the person who posted to shreds.   I don't expect my BMs to do anything, they did an engagement party for us last week.  I heard comments of a bridal and bachelorette party which I really appreciate.  We are really close friends and I'm the first out of our group getting married.  My girls are being amazing, we talk daily even before even getting engaged and now if I don't reach out and sort of keep in the loop they get upset.  They want to be involved, they want to help.  I thought the bridal party were suppose to be the ones dearests to you and that's why I asked them.  Thing is if they are dearest to you, wouldn't they want to know of your wedding, how you are doing, if you may need help or at least ask for opinions? like I said I don't expect it from them but they are doing everything most girls here say BMs shouldn't need to do.  I think my girls would kill me and be extremely hurt if I told them you are only required to buy your dress and show up.  So I know what is customary now for BMs but did this change? or is it a culture thing?
Posted by fperez7542[/QUOTE]

Thanks for posting!

If your bridesmaids <em>ask</em> to help you, that's different than you <em>demanding</em> that they help you. It seems you're on the right track.

I think everything with expectations of bridesmaids started to change in the 1980's when on average, women were getting married later in life and lots of women were busy with careers/school/etc.

For example, I work 50 hours a week. I have a husband, house, and family to take care of. I don't have time to dote upon my friend(s) for months leading up to their wedding. But you bet I will be there with bells on for their wedding day!

ETA: Addie, I swear sometimes you're reading my mind when I'm typing!

SKPM

It's fine to accept help from anyone who offers. It's not fine to start demanding pre-wedding parties, expensive gifts, and mandating that your WP members dote on you for the duration of your engagement (stick around this board for a while and you'll see the crazy sense of entitlement that is attached to some of the engagement rings out there).

daveANDkristen

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_probably-shouldnt-ask-but?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:37Discussion:2acc589d-ba76-42a3-8a86-9e0cbf4ecc6cPost:1ad346db-4795-4e6f-82f0-fcfe9cb7a389">Probably shouldn't ask but...</a>:
[QUOTE]I can't help it...I've only been engaged 2 months and our wedding is set for September.  I do have 5 BM and 5 GM.  My question is a general question since I am just getting the hang of wedding etiquette and all the other stuff that comes with it. I get that BMs are only suppose to buy their dress and show up.  Is this a new custom?  Was it different years ago? 

<strong>To be clear, no one is saying that a MOH/BM shouldn't throw showers, stuff envelopes, and put together favors if she wants to do those things.  And BMs have done those things for years, which I think is part of the problem here.  Over time, being a wedding helper has become a perceived <em>obligation</em> of someone in the WP.  It is not polite to take advantage of one's friends, even when you're a bride (not you specifically, general you).</strong>

The reason I ask is because I have read MANY MANY posts about BMs duties, work, and responsibilities but then the brides on here go at it in the post.  Nearly tearing the person who posted to shreds.  

<strong>We just don't take kindly to brides that feel entitled to be doted on and showered with gifts, no matter the cost to their "nearest and dearest".</strong>

I don't expect my BMs to do anything, they did an engagement party for us last week.  I heard comments of a bridal and bachelorette party which I really appreciate.  We are really close friends and I'm the first out of our group getting married.  My girls are being amazing, we talk daily even before even getting engaged and now if I don't reach out and sort of keep in the loop they get upset.  They want to be involved, they want to help.  I thought the bridal party were suppose to be the ones dearests to you and that's why I asked them.  Thing is if they are dearest to you, wouldn't they want to know of your wedding, how you are doing, if you may need help or at least ask for opinions? like I said I don't expect it from them but they are doing everything most girls here say BMs shouldn't need to do. 

<strong>It sounds like you have a great group of supportive girlfriends.  The bridal party <em>is</em> supposed to be those nearest and dearest to you, but how into wedding stuff they are should not be a prerequisite.  I'll use my girls as an example.  MOH was great at listening to me vent when needed, and offered to help with projects if I needed anything, but didn't ask many questions along the way.  That is just her nature though, and I wouldn't have expected it to change for my wedding.  BM1 didn't show much interest in wedding stuff, but now and then she would ask about different plans.  BM2 was very enthusiastic about planning, and was honestly disappointed that I didn't ask more of her along the way.  All three girls collaborated on a shower and bachelorette party for me, though I'm pretty sure BM2 did the most legwork for both of those things. 

To address your question, it's totally fine to ask their opinions of "this centerpiece or that", "these flowers or those".  Fine, too, to ask them along on shopping trips or cake tastings with you.  But if they aren't interested it shouldn't be taken personally.  Being excited for a friend who is getting married does not equal being excited about wedding stuff.  Hell, BM1 has been engaged for almost a year and seems completely uninterested in planning her own wedding, much less mine.  That's just the way she is.</strong>

I think my girls would kill me and be extremely hurt if I told them you are only <strong>required </strong>to buy your dress and show up.  So I know what is customary now for BMs but did this change? or is it a culture thing?

<strong>If that's the case, it sounds like your friends are the type to be excited about wedding planning.  But as for what I bolded above, buying the dress and showing up IS all they're required to do.  Think of it like ordering an ice cream cone.  All you need is the ice cream and the cone.  The hot fudge, sprinkles, and cherry on top are extra goodies.  But remove those toppings and you still have a damn good ice cream cone. 

Sorry a little long-winded, but HTH.</strong>

Posted by fperez7542[/QUOTE]

bunni727

It sounds like you have really great friends, and are treating them well; that's all that matters.

The main thing is that everything on those lists is optional, and should be brought up/offered from the bridesmaids if they would like to do it. The problem is not having a bachlorette party/stuffing envvelopes/getting ready together, the problem is expecting or demanding a bachlorette party/help stuffing envelopes/getting ready together.

NYCMercedes

I'm a traditional mom and my bridesmaids, in days of yore, only had to buy the dress and show up. This duties stuff is new. Enjoy your wedding and your lovely friends.

[Deleted User]

The big difference is requiring and offering. A BM is only required to show up day of. Everything else is an offer and can be graciously accepted as such. However, if the BMs then are unable to fulfill what they offer, the bride should again be gracious. The point is BMs are a way of honoring your nearest and dearest. It's not a way to get free labor for your wedding. Any planning, DIY tasks, etc should be able to be handled by you and the groom. Period. Help is nice, but don't require things or depend on BMs for things that you can't take over yourselves if their lives need to take precedence.

Peledreamsofrain

The big culture change has happened, as you say. However, it is in reverse of what modern society would have you believe. Back in the days before reality TV, nobody got to see spoiled crazy brides making fools of themselves for public entertainment. Nobody would have ever stood and screamed down their bridal party for not having matching nails, hair, etc. Nowadays it's so common that people accept it as the norm. Just use common sense and the manners your parents taught you. Is it nice to make your friends blow money on you? Is it nice to emotionally blackmail them into doing mindless chores? Is it nice to expect their constant attention at the expense of their own life events? I would think most parents would say no.

lauren21887

I'm glad you asked this. Here is my VERY winded two-cents:

Everyone on TK thought I was crazy when I suggested that I wanted to spend time with my BM and MOH's on the day of.  After reading through the posts here I see that the requirements for a BM are to buy a dress and show up.  I didn't even make the girls (not "my" girls and definitely not "my" team; also makes you look crazy) pay for their own dresses so they have it super easy.

I obviously have other feelings on this issue.  I have been a MOH within the last year and a "Coordinator" just last weekend (for a work friend, we are switching off when I tie the knot this June.)  Even as a coordinator I wanted to do ANYTHING to make her life easier the days leading up to the wedding.  If this meant rifling through her clothes trying to find her cell phone, I did it.  If this meant asking the DJ to announce their arrival for the reception, I did it.  I even swept rose petals (about 5 different times) into nice straight lines for their aisle runners.  And you know what?  I LOVED EVERY MINUTE OF IT.  She was so incredibly greatful and knowing that her wedding went exactly as she wanted it to made me feel really good because I know I had a hand in it.

So when I asked my friends and cousin to be in my wedding I wanted them there because a) they are the three women closest to me besides my mom and grandma.  That's it.  That's the only reason.  Did I expect that they would be asking to come over and do wedding crafts?   You betcha.  Did I expect for them to help me pick out my dress? Yep. So when these things didn't happen with my BM I didn't get mad, throw a fit, or tell the girl she was kicked out of my wedding.  I just realized that maybe we weren't as good as friends as I thought to begin with.  Other things have happened within the year and we have definitely grown apart and I DO regret asking her a little bit.  Not because she hasn't catered to my every need, but because she just isn't the friend I thought she was. 

My point is that we shouldn't have expectations when asking someone to be our BM.  They can be as involved or uninvolved as they are willing to be.  It sucks, and sometimes you may feel like you are in it all alone (beause honestly- not many guys want anything to do with picking out linens or flowers for the bouqets), but we can't tear ourselves up over it. Everyone has their own view on the bridemaid's duties too (just read some of these boards!)  My BM probably doesn't think of gluing ribbon on jars when she thinks of her responsabilities but I can assure you my MOH does.  It sounds to me like your girls are being extremely helpful and you should accept the assistance graciously.  I wish I could do the same

Viczaesar

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_probably-shouldnt-ask-but?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:37Discussion:2acc589d-ba76-42a3-8a86-9e0cbf4ecc6cPost:3f119290-51bf-41a8-8692-2cc4afd8dcee">Re: Probably shouldn't ask but...</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm glad you asked this. Here is my VERY winded two-cents:<strong> Everyone on TK thought I was crazy when I suggested that I wanted to spend time with my BM and MOH's on the day of. </strong> After reading through the posts here I see that the requirements for a BM are to buy a dress and show up.  I didn't even make the girls (not "my" girls and definitely not "my" team; also makes you look crazy) pay for their own dresses so they have it super easy. I obviously have other feelings on this issue.  I have been a MOH within the last year and a "Coordinator" just last weekend (for a work friend, we are switching off when I tie the knot this June.)  Even as a coordinator I wanted to do ANYTHING to make her life easier the days leading up to the wedding.  If this meant rifling through her clothes trying to find her cell phone, I did it.  If this meant asking the DJ to announce their arrival for the reception, I did it.  I even swept rose petals (about 5 different times) into nice straight lines for their aisle runners.  And you know what?  I LOVED EVERY MINUTE OF IT.  She was so incredibly greatful and knowing that her wedding went exactly as she wanted it to made me feel really good because I know I had a hand in it. So when I asked my friends and cousin to be in my wedding I wanted them there because a) they are the three women closest to me besides my mom and grandma.  That's it.  That's the only reason.  Did I expect that they would be asking to come over and do wedding crafts?   You betcha.  Did I expect for them to help me pick out my dress? Yep. So when these things didn't happen with my BM I didn't get mad, throw a fit, or tell the girl she was kicked out of my wedding.  I just realized that maybe we weren't as good as friends as I thought to begin with.  Other things have happened within the year and we have definitely grown apart and I DO regret asking her a little bit.  Not because she hasn't catered to my every need, but because she just isn't the friend I thought she was.  My point is that we shouldn't have expectations when asking someone to be our BM.  They can be as involved or uninvolved as they are willing to be.  It sucks, and sometimes you may feel like you are in it all alone (beause honestly- not many guys want anything to do with picking out linens or flowers for the bouqets), but we can't tear ourselves up over it. Everyone has their own view on the bridemaid's duties too (just read some of these boards!)  My BM probably doesn't think of gluing ribbon on jars when she thinks of her responsabilities but I can assure you my MOH does.  It sounds to me like your girls are being extremely helpful and you should accept the assistance graciously.  I wish I could do the same
Posted by lauren21887[/QUOTE]
No, they didn't.  They thought you were being crazy for being upset at the idea of your MOH leaving your side to get her hair done the day of the wedding.  Also, it's ridiculous to base your opinion of how close you and your BM are as friends on whether she volunteered to do a bunch of wedding stuff with you.  Not interested in that =/= not a good friend.  Maybe she's just not the 'squeeee over other people's weddings' type.  Vaginas don't automatically come with wedding fever, contrary to popular opinion. 

lauren21887

Again, I am not basing our friendship off whether or not she is spending time and energy on my wedding. As previously stated, I am basing it off a hundred other things that have happened in the last year. We moved into separate places and grew apart.

LuckyAloha

history of weddings..
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=history%20of%20weddings&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.randomhistory.com%2F1-50%2F009wedding.html&ei=6G4xUYqLOYiEiwLVxoGYDQ&usg=AFQjCNHqyuo_Fj-2y017LwRYsOsNXyVALg&bvm=bv.43148975,d.cGE

Viczaesar

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_probably-shouldnt-ask-but?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:37Discussion:2acc589d-ba76-42a3-8a86-9e0cbf4ecc6cPost:f9fad5cb-80d6-4b1c-8510-98e121e6feba">Re:Probably shouldn't ask but...</a>:
[QUOTE]Again, I am not basing our friendship off whether or not she is spending time and energy on my wedding. As previously stated, I am basing it off a hundred other things that have happened in the last year. We moved into separate places and grew apart.
Posted by lauren21887[/QUOTE]
In your own words:

Did I expect that they would be asking to come over and do wedding crafts?   You betcha.  Did I expect for them to help me pick out my dress? Yep. So when these things didn't happen with my BM I didn't get mad, throw a fit, or tell the girl she was kicked out of my wedding.  I just realized that maybe we weren't as good as friends as I thought to begin with.

nsweare

I think this sums it up nicely. It is from Emily Post so there shouldn't be any question whether this is proper etiquette.


http://www.emilypost.com/attendants

OP- You sound like you have a wonderful group of friends.

nsweare

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_probably-shouldnt-ask-but?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:37Discussion:2acc589d-ba76-42a3-8a86-9e0cbf4ecc6cPost:23632511-a476-47ea-ae87-63b4c3e9b0bf">Re: Probably shouldn't ask but...</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Probably shouldn't ask but... : I think those are fine as guidelines, but I think it's BS if you consider someone a bad friend for not doing any of them.  Your wedding party should be your closest friends in the world.  Those friendships should be stronger than "MOH, you didn't help me pick out bridesmaids dresses or organize a wedding party gift.  Friendship over!" Overall, I think lists of wedding duties are fine - I love lists, and love having ideas of things  I might want to do.  But I choose friends over lists every time, and would never, ever expect someone do do things to help me just because I'm throwing a big party.  No one on TK has a problem with bridesmaids doing every single thing off every single bridesmaids duty list.  We have a problem when brides expect it and get pissy when it doesn't happen.
Posted by kwitherington[/QUOTE]

I certainly wasn't implying that anyone who doesn't do the things on the list is a bad friend. I was just putting something out there that seems like an inclusive list of things that are traditionally duties of the wedding party, that conform with etiquette guidelines. As Emily Post says, pre-weding parties are nice, but optional. However, it does seem to imply that there may be more than just showing up, on time, in a dress. Again, I don't think someone is a bad friend for not being able to do more.

There has been discussion on this board about what traditional roles were and how things have changed. I went to a current site regarding proper etiquette and found a page that speaks directly to the issue of what is invloved with being in a wedding party. And it is from Emily Post, so it's a pretty reputable source. I hope nobody was offended because the post wasn't supposed to be any sort of statement regarding other people's experiences. Just a list. I'm a list person too, btw. haha

walgrrl

I think a good analogy for bridesmaids duties is when somebody moves.  Good friends and family will want to help each other move and will offer to help, but that doesn't mean they are obligated to do so.

 When my sister told me she was going to move last January, the first thing I said to her was, "What day are you moving so I can request off work and help you move?"  I offered because I care about her and I know she would do the same for me.  But at the same time, she would never demand that I help her, or feel entitled to it.

Good friends will probably offer to help you, but it's rude to demand or expect it, especially if your bridesmaids have a lot going on, like a new baby, a really stressful job, an ill family memeber, etc.  It's fine to accept help when it is offered, it's not fine to demand help or feel that they somehow owe you.

fperez7542

I Love all your input! I really appreciate and understand why certain responses...looking forward to the next 6 months! :

MairePoppy

No, it's not new. I was married almost 35 years ago. All that I expected of my bms was that they get the dress. They wore white shoes, of their choosing. They had no part in the planning of my wedding. Actually, neither did I - my mother planned it. There were no squabbles about who was supposed to do what, or whether the MOH had earned her title by doing errands for me. My friends' weddings were pretty much the same as mine. We were all considerate of our friends' budgets.

My SIL, who was a bm, threw a surprise personal shower for me in her home. It was a beautiful buffet luncheon, she must have knocked herself out to put it together. No one expected this of her; she wanted to do it.

It's fine to accept help from your friends and bms, but it shouldn't be required.

@CMGr - I've never seen 'Goodbye Columbus.' I'll have to check it out.

Viczaesar

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_probably-shouldnt-ask-but?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:37Discussion:2acc589d-ba76-42a3-8a86-9e0cbf4ecc6cPost:97247831-b4e8-4ba0-ab76-33dbea6749d0">Re: Probably shouldn't ask but...</a>:
[QUOTE]I think this sums it up nicely. It is from Emily Post so there shouldn't be any question whether this is proper etiquette. <a href="http://www.emilypost.com/attendants" rel="nofollow">http://www.emilypost.com/attendants</a> OP- You sound like you have a wonderful group of friends. :)
Posted by nsweare[/QUOTE]
Actually no, that's not from Emily Post.  Emily Post is dead.  Her name is now being used by her descendants, who have sold out to the wedding industry.

TT Bride 13

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_probably-shouldnt-ask-but?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:37Discussion:2acc589d-ba76-42a3-8a86-9e0cbf4ecc6cPost:d6a9c01c-b4f3-4ac0-9d87-574e01234180">Re: Probably shouldn't ask but...</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Probably shouldn't ask but... :
Posted by daveANDkristen[/QUOTE]

I LOVE your analogy with the ice cream cone!!! lol