Etiquette Vent

blackfire5th

This seems to be a theme lately and it is starting to annoy me.  Someone learns that what they are doing does not coincide with etiquette and rather than accepting that, accepting the consequences, and moving on, it seems that many are arguing that it isn't etiquette because they personally are not offended by it and that everyone is different.

The point of etiquette is to not hurt or offend anyone's feelings or to be convenient to you.  Yes, everyone is different and everyone has a different background.  This is precisely why it is important to follow etiquette.  You never really know what all of your family and friend's expectations are so it's better to err on the side of caution by following etiquette.

This is one reason that posters are "hating on the (guestbook attendant) job."  Many do view it as a job, not an honor.  Although you might view it as an honor, is it worth offending someone by asking them to do what they consider a job?

We all make etiquette breaches.  I can list many faux pas I committed during wedding planning.  I either didn't know and tried to amend what I did, or I did know and decided to live with the consequences.  I didn't try to argue that just because I didn't see the problem that it wasn't etiquette.

blackfire5th

leeshab- you could have called me snarky, you wouldn't have hurt my feelings.  

AdeleDazeem

To a certain extent, I agree with lees.

Yup, being snarky, being aggravated that the same question has been asked a hundred times, and jumping on people who have asked a ridiculous question is fine and funny... but sometimes it just goes too far.  In my opinion, the ring bearer gift question yesterday was not cool.  Her question I don't think warranted following her to another board to jump all over her there, either.  (And, for the record, some questions do warrant this behavior.)

I've lurked, I know the deal of this place quite well, and I've dished out the snarkiness (if my PMs are teaching me anything), but sometimes it goes over the top and it's no wonder people get defensive and come back with "well, everyone is cool with my heinous etiquette breach."

I do think blackfire's post should be a sticky - it properly describes etiquette and why it should be followed very nicely.  A lot of girls have nooooo idea why etiquette exists or even what etiquette is (my club board seems to think they are breaking etiquette by not having a garter toss...).  I think some people may find it very helpful.

SaraAndrew2010

Definitely agree with your vent, blackfish.  Nothing drives me more crazy than a bride hearing that she is breaching etiquette who responds, "Oh, well I'm not much for tradition, haha.  My family and friends will understand, lol". 

It amazes me how some brides are so convinced that all their guests are fine with an idea (HM registry, cash bar, etc).  I mean, you really polled every single one of your guests?  And even if you did, do you really think everyone gave you an honest answer?  I know if one of my friends told me that she was doing a cash bar or honeymoon registry, I would just smile and nod but still think it was tacky.

aerinpegadrak

I don't think she was "followed" to another board.  Many of us read multiple boards; I know I regularly follow about half of the nationals.  I actually saw her post on Chit Chat before I saw her post on WP, because I go straight down the list.

MyNameIsNot

I so agree, Blackfire.  I also made my fair share of etiquette faux pas, and I feel bad for that.  But I'm not going to pretend that all rules should bend to what I think they should be.

That would be like ignoring the laws that I think are stupid, and going ahead and smoking pot anyway.  But rather than admitting it's illegal, trying to argue that pot was legal in my house.  

xoxob

I totally agree with Blackfire.

Lees, I can sort of agree with you, but on the other hand, I don't. I came here with a legitimate question about ideas I had for gifts. I was told they were a bad idea, it wasn't the last time I was told I have a bad idea by this board and I am sure there will be plenty more times. I have never felt attacked or felt the need to 'defend' myself. Perhaps explain myself more clearly (ie, on my BM gift question, I was asked if the shoes I was going to give were expensive designer, and I answered the question).

I think I must be very lucky to have come to this board and be able to have constructive and welcoming dialog with all of the regular ladies, but I am not so amazing that I should be exceptionally good at hearing 'your idea just isn't working, sorry'.

tidetravel

Dude, I just read the RB gift thread.  OP got 2 responses and then an attitude.  Which is (obviously) when the snark came out. 

Threads will be answered in the manner in which they are perceived. 

AdeleDazeem

All I'm saying is that if I asked an innocent question and the first response was "dude, can't you read?  You are no snowflake and your situation doesn't warrant me answering any nicer than this."  Well... I'd cop and attitude as well.  Who wouldn't?

I find it hypocritical that the regulars can be a bitchy with posters and they are just supposed to take it, but when the poster comes back and responds in the same vein, then they're the jerk. 

Yes, 95% of the time, the snark that comes out is necessary.  But, sometimes I wish people would give the OP the benefit of the doubt.

leeshab1982

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_etiquette-vent?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:37Discussion:c258d05f-b636-4843-a83f-0f8401aa2d04Post:02e3eaae-0625-4b18-ba00-536c3d0ce92f">Re: Etiquette Vent</a>:
[QUOTE]<strong>I came here with a legitimate question about ideas I had for gifts. I was told they were a bad idea, it wasn't the last time I was told I have a bad idea by this board and I am sure there will be plenty more times. I have never felt attacked or felt the need to 'defend' myself.</strong> Perhaps explain myself more clearly (ie, on my BM gift question, I was asked if the shoes I was going to give were expensive designer, and I answered the question). I think I must be very lucky to have come to this board and be able to have <strong>constructive and welcoming dialog with all of the regular ladies</strong>, but I am not so amazing that I should be exceptionally good at hearing 'your idea just isn't working, sorry'.
Posted by xoxob[/QUOTE]

I completely understand what you mean, xoxo, but I would say that there was a definite difference in the tone of the responses in your thread as opposed to the RB gift thread.  It's much easier to hear and accept something like, "I see why you thought of that idea and your intentions are good, but you should really think about something like _____ instead," as opposed to, "Your idea sucks. Do it this way."  I'm not actually quoting from the threads...just making up a few lines to explain what I mean. 

I agree with the advice being given here almost 99% of the time.  I think a lot of people are clueless about etiquette and are really doing things that they NEED to be informed about.  It's just that sometimes the responses and advice being given are dished out in such a way that the focus shifts from the actual issue, causing people to get defensive about their ideas.  Blackfire's post here is about brides seeing their errors and working to correct them or living with the consequences.  I think more people on here would do that if they were informed in a nicer (for lack of a better word) way.   

I also agree that some people deserve the bluntness and snark that they get on here.  There are plenty of times that people are given good advice and just refuse to take it because they think their wedding gives them a license to be a crappy person to their freinds and family.   

AdeleDazeem

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_etiquette-vent?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:37Discussion:c258d05f-b636-4843-a83f-0f8401aa2d04Post:86c8fdb3-7c20-4ad4-b7a8-234f57c51d5b">Re: Etiquette Vent</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Etiquette Vent : Once again, I feel like from day 1 on this board I have been given the benefit of the doubt. I read the RB post  and I agree with everyone. She didn't like the answers she saw on the previous post and demanded more. She was also being selfish, she wanted a 2 year old to "cherish" her wedding memories when he was older? Please.
Posted by xoxob[/QUOTE]

I disagree... but to each their own.

xoxob

Truth, Joy.

emilyinchile

Blackfire, totally agree with your post. I actually said something similar to someone on the HM board who was saying that a poster was rude to her for saying her HM registry idea was tacky - it's not rude to point out that objectively something is not in line with etiquette.

As far as the rest of the debate goes...speaking solely for myself I'll agree that if it's the third "what to get my BMs" question of the day, my response is not as nice as it was the first time. Because I wasn't always a reg who hung out here, and when I did pop in to get a question answered, I read previous threads first to see if someone had already asked what I needed to know. I don't think that's too much to ask here or anywhere else on the internet, and it annoys me that other people don't think to do that.

How much benefit of the doubt I give also depends hugely on the tone of the OP. If someone comes on with a coherent post that gives all the relevant details and asks a genuine question, I'm way more likely to help nicely than if it's a misspelled wall of text that comes across as simply looking for validation.

stina93446

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_etiquette-vent?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:37Discussion:c258d05f-b636-4843-a83f-0f8401aa2d04Post:2506fe1c-7393-4727-888a-bbae3a4eff72">Re: Etiquette Vent</a>:
[QUOTE]Dude, I just read the RB gift thread.  OP got 2 responses and then an attitude.  Which is (obviously) when the snark came out.  Threads will be answered in the manner in which they are perceived. 
Posted by tidetravel[/QUOTE]

<div>I just went back to the thread and counted to the 3rd response which wasn't me. This whole time I kept thinking that I was the "snarker" and I couldn't understand how asking the chick "Did you not read anything here?!" was that snarky. I still stand by it. </div>

CA2MT4EveR

I'm going back to read it.  Sometimes I skip the "gift" questions when they have multiple answers because I get bored with reading them and the same questions over and over.

Be back in a bit!

stina93446

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_etiquette-vent?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:37Discussion:c258d05f-b636-4843-a83f-0f8401aa2d04Post:0c34a2d5-1900-4f95-95d2-b8f75d9962ee">Re: Etiquette Vent</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Etiquette Vent : Thank you aerin.  I  didn't "follow" her anywhere.  And while I admit that I probably was a bit short in my post on her thread (yep, sometimes I step outta line just like everyone else, and I'm okay with admitting it), the responses given in the previous thread (having to do with why it's good to get something they enjoy and appreciate now) WERE relevant, so I totally get why Stina directed her to that thread.
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

<div>Exactly, stage. I was thinking "go read that thread. The answers are all there. DO NOT ask this question again until you read that post."</div>

CA2MT4EveR

Stage, I like you

I think the only time it is really blatant following is when someone finds all their posts and goes to their club board or their local.  Then it tends to lean to the side of harassment.  On these national boards, we all have our certain rooms we like to visit, and if we find a pattern or a "they are mean to me" post, we tend to take a look.  Gotta know what's going on!

And I will admit I was once a newb who got her feelings hurt, but I decided to lurk and really not pay attention to that room.  Hopefully that girl gets the advice she wanted and realize the world is not all 'puppies and rainbows" all the time.

stina93446

It's always fun to link the original post in their pity party thread.

emilyinchile

I just read the thread - I'd skipped it precisely because I didn't feel like reading ANOTHER ringbearer gift thread. And while Stina's comment wasn't puppies and rainbows, it was helpful and not mean, ditto Stage's. Then we got into "special snowflake" territory, and I think the OP was really the first to up the ante in that one.

leeshab1982

I think the RB post is just one example of what I've been trying to explain.  Yes, the OP there needed some help because she was on the wrong track with her gift idea.  In the end, does it seem like this board helped her and got her pointed in the right direction?  I don't know...everything got out of hand and turned into a mess that strayed far from the original issue.  That was partly OP's fault, too.
 
I know it can feel great to just say it how it is to someone who's annoying you, but it doesn't always help the situation.  Sometimes it's hard to decipher whether it's being said just to get a jab in or if you're really trying to offer help.  I think the advice itself loses some validity when the responses are so snippy, which stinks because the regs here are very knowledgeable, especially when it comes to etiquette.  
     

stina93446

Oh, I've been flamed MANY times. I refused to go to the local or club boards for a long time. I STARTED at E....lol. I got flamed for non wedding related things too. So I feel like getting flamed is all part of being on the knot.

stina93446

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_etiquette-vent?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:37Discussion:c258d05f-b636-4843-a83f-0f8401aa2d04Post:9a5b9cdc-278b-4390-b067-baec04ebdc6e">Re: Etiquette Vent</a>:
[QUOTE] Heck, STINA and I have  been on the opposite ends of this very issue in the past.
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]
I don't ever recall such craziness.....EVER!

xoxob

I've been flamed. It happens. It's the internet. Lots of different people with lots of different opinions.

What gets my goat is when 80% of the people on a post disagree with the OP and she still cries and cries saying "MY SITUATION IS DIFFERENT" if you're in the vast minority, take a step back and look at your situation a little more objectively.

tracy_k

This sums up my feelings on etiqutte pretty well:

http://www.crane.com/Etiquette.aspx?C=StationeryEtiquette&S=The+Essence+of+Etiquette

banana468

I can't always read EVERY post but I'll call anyone out for being out of line.  I love the regs, but I'm not a fan of insults.

ally117

I am new to TK, and I'll admit, I also had my feelings a little hurt after some responded to my response to another bride.  I appreciate this OP's point of view, and I hadn't realized how often you guys answer the same questions/issues until recently.  I know I originally felt like I was being attacked, but if all I am giving you guys to know about me is one thing, then it's my fault for just giving you one tiny glimpse of me.  Thankfully, my wounded pride didn't keep me from coming back.  I'll just be careful to lurk before I post!