living together before we're married? (long)

loves2shop4shoes

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_living-together-before-were-married-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:738c7897-d0e0-4b06-8d0f-26e4358fd390Post:d028b58b-0125-4cfc-8a88-92bec5bc6cb7">Re: living together before we're married? (long)</a>:
[QUOTE]<strong>I believe that sex outside of the covenant of marriage is a sin.</strong>  I do speak for myself only, though, so please don't put these words into the mouths of others unless they echo that same sentiment.  Personally, I don't think that the posts advocating pre-marital sex come from a Biblical standpoint.  We all make mistakes, and we ask forgiveness for those mistakes, but to advocate continually making that mistake, IMHO, is not a Biblical perspective.  God says that we will want to turn from our sin as a follower of Jesus Christ.  Satan is a huge tempter.  If sex wasn't pleasurable, it wouldn't be tempting to have premarital sex.  God is a magnificent creator and he gave us this gift to be shared between a husband and wife within the covenant and bond of marriage.  That is how I choose to live my life.  It isn't for everyone, but it is for me.  
Posted by kellya01[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>I think that really depends upon Biblical interpretation.  Just because I said I'm not super religious doesn't mean that I'm Biblically ignorant.  There was no commandment "Thou shalt not have premarital sex."  And Jesus never commented on premarital sex.  The Old Testament discussed what would happen when a man took an unmarried virgin's virginity and didn't describe it as sinful, but said he would have to monetarily compensate her father.  (See Exodus 22:16 & Deuteronomy 22:28).  </div><div>
</div><div>The New Testament doesn't speak much about premarital sex.  It speaks BRIEFLY about "fornication", but this was a mistranslation.  The word in the original Greek was "porneia", which means "sexual immorality".  Sexual immorality was meant to mean adultery, sex with prostitutes/concubines, or sex during menstruation.  NEVER does the Bible say premarital sex is a sin.</div><div>
</div><div>Indeed, that concept was brought about by the patriarchal society from which we all descend.  I do not believe there is anything sinful about premarital sex. </div>

fpaemp2011

It is true that in the New Testament we don't have verses describing the act of premarital sex and its consequences like we do in Exodus or Deuteronomy. It is clear, however, that virginity is still the standard for unmarried Christians and that sex outside the context of marriage is still considered sin.

1 Corinthians 7:28,34,36-38: Virginity is assumed for unmarried women just as in the Old Testament. Virginity is still the standard for God's people in the New Covenant.

1 Corinthians 6:16-18: Sexual intimacy "unites" you with your spouse. Outside of marriage this is called "sexual immorality."

1 Corinthians 7:1-2: Marriage is recommended to avoid sexual immorality.

1 Corinthians 7:8-9: Premarital sex isn't an option for dealing with lust. Marriage is once again recommended for avoid sexual immorality.

Ephesians 5:31: Paul is affirming the Old Testament standard of uniting in flesh only with your spouse. One fleshness is to happen when a man is "united to his wife."

1 Thessalonians 4:2-8: "Acquire a wife in a way that is holy and honorable" or the man is in sexual immorality. Sexual sin harms others besides those who engage in it. Premarital sex "cheats" the future spouse by robbing him or her of the virginity that ought to be brought to marriage.

Hebrews 13:4: It is a pure marriage bed or those sleeping in it are "adulterers" or "sexually immoral."

1 Timothy 5:2: As a Christian man, if you are not married to her, then she is your sister whom you must treat "with absolute purity."

2 Corinthians 11:2: Although this passage is talking about Christ and His people, it uses the analogy of a Christian man receiving his bride "as a pure virgin." Virginity was the ideal. Premarital sex was viewed as sexual immorality - just as in the Old Testament.

As for what defines a biblical marriage, this article describes it better than I can: http://christianity.about.com/od/whatdoesthebiblesay/a/marriagecovenan.htm

loves2shop4shoes

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_living-together-before-were-married-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:738c7897-d0e0-4b06-8d0f-26e4358fd390Post:da08ff2b-45fb-4cb4-b800-88f9bd1ceab1">Re: living together before we're married? (long)</a>:
[QUOTE]It is true that in the New Testament we don't have verses describing the act of premarital sex and its consequences like we do in Exodus or Deuteronomy. It is clear, however, that virginity is still the standard for unmarried Christians and that sex outside the context of marriage is still considered sin. <div>
</div><div><strong>Just because something is the standard doesn't mean being outside of the standard is a sin.  For example, a woman may be born with blond hair and bushy eyebrows.  Dying her hair color and plucking her eyebrows may not have been the standard in Biblical times, but doing so now would not be considered sinful. </strong></div><div><strong>
</strong></div><div>1 Corinthians 7:7:28,34,36-38: Virginity is assumed for unmarried women just as in the Old Testament. Virginity is still the standard for God's people in the New Covenant. 1 Corinthians 6:16-18: Sexual intimacy "unites" you with your spouse. Outside of marriage this is called "sexual immorality." 1 Corinthians 7:1-2: Marriage is recommended to avoid sexual immorality. 1 Corinthians 7:8-9: Premarital sex isn't an option for dealing with lust. Marriage is once again recommended for avoid sexual immorality. </div><div>
</div><div><strong>I'll just address all of the 1 Corinthians in one shot.  This did not come from Jesus' mouth.  It came from Paul, who was a notorious prude.  He himself never married and was very wary of "sexual immorality", which I described above as having often been mistranslated as "fornication".  Sexual immorality most often referred to adultery, prostitution, sex with children, sex while on one's period, etc.  NOT premarital sex.  Paul actually advocated for being remaining celibate their entire lives and suggested marriage if people could not keep themselves from abstaining forever, to prevent "sexual immorality", as I described above.</strong></div><div><strong>
</strong></div><div>Ephesians 5:31: Paul is affirming the Old Testament <strong>standard of uniting in flesh only with your spouse.</strong> One fleshness is to happen when a man is "united to his wife." </div><div>
</div><div><strong>This is presuming that a man has a wife.  I read this as not allowing for adultery.</strong></div><div>
</div><div>1 Thessalonians 4:2-8: "Acquire a wife in a way that is holy and honorable" or the man is in sexual immorality. Sexual sin harms others besides those who engage in it. Premarital sex "cheats" the future spouse by robbing him or her of the virginity that ought to be brought to marriage. </div><div>
</div><div><strong>This just reiterates the views of the patriarchal society around Biblical times. </strong></div><div><strong>
</strong></div><div>Hebrews 13:4: It is a pure marriage bed or those sleeping in it are "adulterers" or "sexually immoral." </div><div>
</div><div><strong>I think the crux of this is how you define "pure".  Pure may mean that the only two people in the bed are the spouses, not a third party and not other lovers.</strong></div><div><strong>
</strong></div><div>1 Timothy 5:2: As a Christian man, if you are not married to her, then she is your sister whom you must treat "with absolute purity." </div><div>
</div><div><strong>He may be speaking about prostitutes.</strong></div><div><strong>
</strong></div><div>2 Corinthians 11:2: Although this passage is talking about Christ and His people, it uses the analogy of a Christian man receiving his bride "as a pure virgin." Virginity was the ideal. Premarital sex was viewed as sexual immorality - just as in the Old Testament. As for what defines a biblical marriage, this article describes it better than I can: <a href="http://christianity.about.com/od/whatdoesthebiblesay/a/marriagecovenan.htm" rel='nofollow'>http://christianity.about.com/od/whatdoesthebiblesay/a/marriagecovenan.htm</a></div><div>
</div><div>
</div><div><strong>Again, I think this is all based upon interpretation.  But Jesus himself never spoke out against premarital sex, the way he spoke out about other things, such as divorce.</strong>
Posted by fpaemp2011[/QUOTE]<div>

</div></div>

marinabreeze

I don't want to get too far into the debate over the Bible a premarital sex, but I do have a couple of thoughts.  While the Bible is clear on adultery (extramarital sex), it is not so much on premarital sex, particularly in a monogamous, committed relationship - prostitution and promiscuity are much more "obvious" sins.  I feel that Bible verses should be considered within their contexts rather than just quoted alone, IMO, because it helps us to understand and consider what is really being said.  The Bible is a narrative about God's relationship with His people and the fulfilment of His covenant, which is Jesus Christ.  It is not a rulebook of dos and don'ts.  I believe it's easier to follow rules than to follow the spirit of God's word...that's the trap the Pharisees and teachers of the law fell into. 

That said, my view of the Word and what is sin may not be the exact same as yours, but I hope that we can all respect where each other is coming from, even if we don't agree on everything.  There are people who believe that not having premarital sex is honoring God, just as there are those who believe that not dancing, not drinking, and other kinds of abstaining behaviors are honoring Him.  While I may not agree with some aspects of this, I will not take that away from you either nor try to make you change your mind. 

That said, I think it is hard living together and not having sex,  especially if you're talking a few months.  It can be done, and I know people who have done it, but if remaining celibate is important to you and your FI, why put yourselves in such a difficult position?   If you give in on something core to your beliefs, you will probably regret it, and you don't want to start a marriage with a foundation of regret. 

I've moved to a strange city twice, and being a woman living alone in a strange city is not the end of the world.  It's a challenge (and I'm an introvert so don't think I'm miss social), but it's worth it.  If you are moving to a new city, maybe it will be good to do it on your own first.  You will have an opportunity to get yourself established, meet your own group of friends, and be your own independent person.  Your FI can learn to assert himself as well and deal with his home life on his own (which he really should before marrying anyway).  And then you can be a whole person getting married to hopefully another whole person.

kalizoomba

okay guys - I didn't want to get into a big biblical arguement over whether it's wrong or not - I just wanted advice about what I should do. It doesn't matter if you belive sex before marriage is a sin or not. Either way, I can't see why it would hurt to wait. You'll be judged on what you do (or don't do) regardless of what you believe. 

I personally am choosing to wait. Thank you all for your input and advice. If you'd like to talk to me further, PM me. I will not check this board again.

golden1215

In Response to Re: living together before we're married? (long):
[QUOTE]I think it's kind of like being on a diet. If you leave a moist chocolate cake (or whatever else tempts you) just sitting on the counter after you've started an extremely rigorous diet would it be possible to not eat it? Sure, but wouldn't it be wiser and easier on yourself to just throw the darn cake in the trash to just not have that extra temptation? Obviously not a perfect analogy because there's nothing morally controversial about a chocolate cake, but you get the point. I think one of the trickiest things about temptation is that often the times when we don't remove a temptation because we're convinved we'll be fine are the very times that we're most susceptible to temptation, it has to do with pride (which sadly I'm kind of an expert in). Let me give you a stupid example: sometimes I know I should be working and not screwing around on the internet. I know I could just turn my computer off, but I don't and then I pull up a webpage "just for a sec" and don't start working again for like an hour. Other times I put my laptop in the other room, but those are usually the times I'm so focused on my work that I wouldn't notice if my laptop were right under my nose.
Posted by sister2groom[/QUOTE]

this isnt a good analogy (not because its chocolate cake) but because in your scenario the person has tasted chocolate cake before, and knows its good.  If OP has never had sex, then she doesnt know what she's missing.  Not that hard to obstain if you've never started.

Tauner23

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_living-together-before-were-married-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:738c7897-d0e0-4b06-8d0f-26e4358fd390Post:a683ad54-b396-4c50-88e5-cd5491c2c134">Re: living together before we're married? (long)</a>:
[QUOTE]Ok....I don't see the big deal of living together.  To be fair, I also live with my FI and have a lot of premarital sex. But honestly, if you and your FI are committed until waiting for marriage, it doesn't matter if you're sleeping in the same bed or 7000 miles apart.  Sure, while living together there will be more "temptation" to have sex, but if you're committed and mature about it, it shouldn't be an issue.  Also, if you were living together for years, I think it'd be more of an issue than 3-4 months. And frankly, who cares what other people think about it??  This issue is between you, your FI, and God, it's not anyone else's place to judge you.  To anyone who would judge you, I'd say "Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone." Good luck.
Posted by loves2shop4shoes[/QUOTE]

<div>
</div><div>AMEN!! </div><div>
</div><div>
</div>

twixinthemix

When I was in grad school there was a girl who was in a similar position.  She was moving across country for grad school and was getting married that winter.  She had called a couple churches in her denomination (I think she was Methodist?) to see if any families had rooms for rent, and she was able to live in a basement apartment for that first semester.  I think the now husband moved into regular apartment that October or so, and then she moved in with him after they got married.  Something to think about!  AND, by living with a Christian couple, they can be spiritual guides for you and help you resist the temptation.

As for me, neither FI and I want to live together before marriage, but seeing that we live an hour apart and in another time zone, we really wouldn't have been able to do it if we wanted to.  On weekends, though, we'll spend the night at each other's place because of the distance.  I have a separate bedroom  It can be tempting, but we've held out.  We would not have done it full time though.

Good luck!

Beazilla

I'm a grad student in an LDR, so some of this is coming from my own experiences.

Don't move until you have a job or the school year and your funding starts. If you're not receiving funding from your advisor or department look for jobs on campus since sometimes GAships are posted on the campus job board. It's hard to be a grad student and have a job off campus. Your FH should also be looking for jobs in your future city (unless he's also a grad student with funding).

Get a 1bd place if it'll save you money. You may also want to look on Craigslist for roommates who already have a place that you could live in for a few months or your FH could move into the place as well. I've lived with a few couples and it really wasn't a problem because we both gave each other space.

Talk to your family about the situation. They may be more understanding then you think.

Don't worry about people's perceptions. I live with FH during school breaks and we have premarital sex, but then I also like to eat bacon cheeseburgers and wear mixed fiber clothes.

HaleyKatrina

For me, I wouldn't want to live with my FI before the wedding because of: 1. The temptation aspect. It would be super hard to not do anything, even in separate rooms. I find it hard to keep myself away from him when we are in the same room. Also, people will assume you are sleeping together, that is just what people do when they live together like that. 2. Marriage should start a completely new life for you. Living together before you are married is taking away that bit of newness that you could have when you are married. Also (As someone else said as well), you may regret living together. You can't go back on that. 3. Living on your own could be a really good experience. If you haven't lived on your own before, you may want to do this before having to live with your husband. Especially if you have been supported by your parents all your life, you need to learn how to live on your own. Plus, it could be a lot of fun! Maybe see if a friend is thinking of moving to the city too.

See if you can get different places in the city. Or, if that doesn't work, just wait out the time before the wedding. I know that long distance SUCKS, but it is do-able. God will give you the strength. 

djdanib24

Hi Tiffany,

Have you considered getting married by your pastor or in a courthouse to make it legal now and have the wedding later? That way you can live together now as husband and wife (not in sin). You shouldn't do this just to have sex, but being that you're already close to the wedding, this may be an option. I've known friends who have done this to make things honorable. Then they moved in together and saved money/planned for a wedding that was 6 months later. Good luck!

On a personal note, my fiance and I are Not obstaining and move in together next week. We recently started going to church and small group together. I've never felt guilty about sleeping with him, but left the youth ministry about 8 months ago because I did not want to live differently or raise any questions with the kids I mentored. Now a friend recently mentioned the idea of abstaining during the engagement and/or getting married before the wedding. We're growing in our relationship with Christ and want God to be a part of our marriage, but don't feel bad about making love. I think now that we're moving in together and people will know about it, I'm starting to feel a little differently. It's not about them though. Any thoughts or scripture would be appreciated.

Danielle