Too far?

bourgehm

Hello fellow Christian knotties!

The other day at church the pastor was talking about virginity and how far was too far. Except he never really said how far he thinks is too far to go. Which got me thinking...  My FI and I have been engaged for two years and have two more years to go (we had to move the wedding back due to financial reasons and college things), and it is really hard to not cross our line.

I was curious. How far do each of you think is *too far*? Where is your *line*?

bourgehm

Our line stops at kissing.  Although I'm wondering if we should move it back further than that even because sometimes when we start kissing we get a bit too wrapped up in it and pass our boundaries.

azdancer8

I think "too far" is different for every couple. What is important to me and FI is that we keep our boundary a step even further back than what we *think* it should be. You don't want to go skidding toward your boundary and end up crossing it because you spent too much time right on the edge of it. Does that make sense?

Also, sorry about your wedding being postponed. We miss you on the January board.

fpaemp2011

In middle school (7th grade...I think) my church went to a True Love Waits rally and we were taught that, unless we were married, we shouldn't touch anything covered by a bathing suit, even it's covered by clothes.  We (as a couple) also have a standard of not going "up" or "down" clothes to touch skin.  We don't move shirts, pant legs, or sleeves to touch skin. If it's covered, it stays covered.

Our line is kissing.  Cheek and forehead is fine, but we won't kiss on the lips until we're married.  It's not how either of us was raised.  I don't believe kissing is a sin, and I don't think kissing is "too far," but for us, holding that line keeps us from going to far.  We don't have to worry about crossing any lines.  We do have friends and family members that we spend time with whenever we're together to help keep us accountable. 

ETA: I agree with azdancer.  The line really is different for everyone.  You have to know where both of your lines are, and take a step back from the one that is most far back.  (I don't know how to make the end of that sentence better).  FI and I know a couple who didn't hold hands until they were engaged about 2 weeks ago, and still don't hug unless they won't see each other for more than a week.  To each his own...all I know is that, for both of us, our main love language is touch...I don't know how I could develop a relationship with someone deep enough to know if I want to marry them without that quality, but I don't need to know everything before marriage.

JoyMatt424

This question is such a doozie because so many people have so many different opinions. Sometimes I just wish I could dial God on the phone, "Hello? yes, I have a quick question regarding..."

We kiss, and personally, I think the line is like Emily said - nothing gets touched if it's covered by a bathing suit. I know everyone is different and this is my *general* idea of what to do.

fpaemp2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_far?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:94b110d7-b1a7-45f5-91bb-96ccdd714e09Post:9f575450-076d-4cb8-868a-7f5a7a7c9430">Re: Too far?</a>:
[QUOTE]This question is such a doozie because so many people have so many different opinions. Sometimes I just wish I could dial God on the phone, <strong>"Hello? yes, I have a quick question regarding..." </strong>
Posted by JoyMatt424[/QUOTE]

seriously...
<div align="center">"I adjure you, O<sup class="xref"> </sup>daughters of Jerusalem, that you not stir up
or awaken love until it pleases." Song of Solomon 8:4
</div>
So, God...I know "until it pleases" means marriage...but...about that "love" word...what <em>exactly </em>does that mean? 

bourgehm

Thanks everyone! That was helpful. I'll discuss this with FI this weekend, and possibly move it back a step further so we dont' cross any lines that we dont' want to cross.

GJones27

Bourgehm, whatever you said is exactly what happens with my FI and I, and if I understand you correctly, you're not alone.  We only kiss, but sometimes our kissing has gone a little too far.  We definitely have not gone to "second base" or beyond.  But I think we could have kept our kissing a little more reserved three or four times in the past.  That problem mainly happened at the start of our relationship; we were both very new to everything and had to learn our boundaries. 

I talked to my conservative mom about this, and her reaction was, "You didn't do anything."  I even went to my priest during confession, confessing that my FI and I kissed a little too much, and he didn't make it out to be a huuuuge sin.  He said if your intention wasn't selfish, and you were kissing in an act of love as you explore the option of marriage together, then it's not the worst thing.

Yeah, I too wish I could call up God and ask what He thought about it.  But honestly, compare us girls on the board to typical American girls.  Ninety-two percent of American females don't "wait" until marriage.  I know God isn't persuaded by statistics, but I think we do the best we can in America to stay pure.  I think our intention and discipline count for some.  And if we fail a little, we can always seek forgiveness, as long as we approach forgiveness with a genuine heart.

I think everyone gives good advice on keeping the line farther back.  My FI and I have tried to do that, but somehow we end up kissing a lot again.  We try to take breaks, and my FI is really good about enforcing them.  But discipline is hard!  I will get married in 201 days, and I can't wait until the discipline part is over, haha.

kellya01

My FI and I also had the "new" moments when we started seriously dating, and we had to pull back from those, but basically if it means that a piece of clothing is moved, we really, really keep that as our boundary especially as we get closer to the big day.  We just remind each other that we will have the rest of our lives to have fun with each other's physical bodies, and during this time we can get more comfortable emotionally and spiritually.  One thing I would suggest for anyone exploring "where" to put the boundary lines is to ask your christian parents for advice on "how far is too far."  Many parents will be honest about where the temptations were for them.  

Something else to consider as far as the Biblical aspect of "how far is too far" is to consider that God says that when two people get married, two become one.  Anything that takes you "too close" to the "two becoming one" moment is too far.  Set your boundaries far enough away from the "too close" moments so that you're not in danger of breaching that divide.  For us, we sit together and cuddle, and yes we do kiss, but when the "wandering hands" starts up one of us will cease and desist, for lack of better terms.  It's hard when you know that you're with the person that will be your husband for forever, but remember... he will be your husband for FOREVER... that means you can be patient a little longer and let some of the mystery of sex and the physical body be something that you save for marriage.  It will make it THAT much more special.  

Just my two cents.  Nobody is perfect and it's hard to wait (i posted about that a while back), and it takes a lot of BRAIN power to make your physical body do what you want it to do in order to remain pure. 

squeakyduck

goodness, I'm feeling a little bad about myself now. and in the minority. My FI and I don't have intercourse. That is our line. We feel that it's important to have some level of intimacy. But everyone has different ideas. And what's right for us isn't what's right for everyone. 

Habs2Hart

Don't feel bad about yourself duckie.  My Fl and I too have gone "too far" but not all the way... with each other.  Neither of us are virgins.  Fl was not raised Christian.  I was, but became sexually active in high school when God took a back seat to partying and "fitting in". 

Now both of us want to abstain from sex because it's the way God wants it.  After everything Fl and I have been through and all the crummy relationships that were wrong, He finally gave us each other and we don't want to lose that!  God giveth and God taketh away  

However, we try very hard to draw that line at kissing.  I find out urges get crazy since both of us have experience and we have to take a deep breathe and a step back. 

I too think that some level of intimacy is required.  While I applaud those who can not touch or hold hands or hug or kiss before marriage, I admit that it is just not for me.  Our love language is physical.  We show each other we love each other by hugging and snuggling and kissing.  To me, it's not wrong.

We know we've crossed the line if we feel guilty about it after. 

JoyMatt424

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_far?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:94b110d7-b1a7-45f5-91bb-96ccdd714e09Post:05516afc-2e7b-400f-abe3-e92a1daa26b8">Re: Too far?</a>:
[QUOTE]<strong>Don't feel bad about yourself duckie.</strong>  My Fl and I too have gone "too far" but not all the way... with each other.  Neither of us are virgins.  Fl was not raised Christian.  I was, but became sexually active in high school when God took a back seat to partying and "fitting in".  Now both of us want to abstain from sex because it's the way God wants it.  After everything Fl and I have been through and all the crummy relationships that were wrong, He finally gave us each other and we don't want to lose that!  God giveth and God taketh away ;)  However, we try very hard to draw that line at kissing.  I find out urges get crazy since both of us have experience and we have to take a deep breathe and a step back.  I too think that some level of intimacy is required. <strong> While I applaud those who can not touch or hold hands or hug or kiss before marriage, I admit that it is just not for me. </strong> Our love language is physical.  We show each other we love each other by hugging and snuggling and kissing.  To me, it's not wrong. We know we've crossed the line if we feel guilty about it after. 
Posted by Habs2Hart[/QUOTE]

Same. Don't feel bad duckie. And I agree with you that there needs to be some level of intimacy in a relationship. I think on some level it comes right down to personal conviction.

jenn.daniel

I guess we don't really have a *line*.  What I think is important is that any physical contact should be out of love rather than lust.  There are a few times when I think we did things out of lust, which disappoints me.  Fortunately, it's been a long time since either of us has felt that things happened more for the sake of physical pleasure that love for each other.

kellya01

Duckie and others - don't think that if someone else has set a line somewhere that they are perfect... like you said, no intercourse.  My FI and I have crossed our line, but we set it far enough back that it was not in the danger zone for intercourse, but it was farther than we both wanted to go when we let our HEADS rule our hearts (and hormones).  I think many of us could admit failings in this department, so don't feel like you're in the minority.  Just because a line is set doesn't mean we don't make mistakes!!  FYI, my FI and I have traveled together on music educators conferences to save $$ on the hotel room when we were BOTH teaching, and while I look back on that now without regrets, I do also know that we could have made ourselves wait.  We've backed our line up BECAUSE of those times.  

sessionswedding

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_far?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:94b110d7-b1a7-45f5-91bb-96ccdd714e09Post:05516afc-2e7b-400f-abe3-e92a1daa26b8">Re: Too far?</a>:
[QUOTE]While I applaud those who can not touch or hold hands or hug or kiss before marriage, I admit that it is just not for me.  Our love language is physical.  We show each other we love each other by hugging and snuggling and kissing.  To me, it's not wrong.
Posted by Habs2Hart[/QUOTE]
Absolutely agree. 

FI and I don't usally do very well when left alone.  If that's you, I think it would be a good idea to make sure you're never alone together for very long.  And if you find yourself alone together, pretend your mother is in the room.  Never do anything with your FI that you wouldn't do in front of your mother, and that's a good way to cool you off!

squeakyduck

Haha sessions- I won't even kiss my fiancé if my mom's in the room. I do not do PDA. 

Purple&7

Duckie- I feel like you do. Mine and FI level of too far is very different from everyone else's.  Makes me feel really bad about myself.

squeakyduck

@purple- Well I feel better knowing that I'm not the only one who's gone further than most. 

jenn.daniel

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_far?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:94b110d7-b1a7-45f5-91bb-96ccdd714e09Post:b8059e5b-7ce9-4cdd-b598-8b6c69c9b5b4">Re: Too far?</a>:
[QUOTE]Haha sessions- I won't even kiss my fiancé if my mom's in the room. I do not do PDA. 
Posted by rentaduckie[/QUOTE]

ditto.  No hugs either.  Holding hands is the only thing I'm ok with in front of the parents.

Habs2Hart

meh, My Fl and I kiss with my parents in the room.  Why not?  We're engaged, they know we love each other. 

bourgehm

Don't worry. I'm sure lots of us have crossed our 'lines'. Everyone's answers make me feel pretty naughty as well.  I know that if I feel guilty about it, then it's probably not okay to be doing.

kelseydjames

I've always abided by "If I feel guilty after, it's too far"

I'm right there with some of you, unfortunetly. We've crossed the line more than once, but never intercourse, praise the Lord! We try soooo hard but sometimes out bodies get the best of our brains. Neither of us have ever been with anyone, FI had never even held hands with a girl before me. We're young (20) and hormonal, so we realize the slip ups are normal. We just deal with them when they happen and try our best not to let them happen anymore. Our problem was always being left alone, which can't always be avoided. So instead of trying not to be alone, we've decided that anytime we get too close, we'll whip out the closest Bible and spend some time in God's word, not in eachother's pants.

katiepride

I also agree with you.  Some level of intimacy is required.   But I remain a virigin until my wedding night.

What does bother me is that he is not.  Though we are both now waiting and he believes now that he should have waited, he has had sex before.  Sometimes I run this over in my mind and it drives me crazy.  I hate the thought of thinking of him doing such intimate acts with someone else.  Does anyone else have this problem?