SpinOff - Is Harry Potter evil?

xstarx05x

Also, it's one thing if you read these books as scifi/fantasy, but the pro lem is when others use it as a tool for black magic. Truth is, Satan is real and his powers are real and people will inadvertatly turn to him to have power. So should we be saying those kinds of books are ok? Read Matthew 18:6-9

DramaGeek

I'm having a hard time understanding how you can even use HP as a tool for black magic?  They are completely different.  You said you're speaking from what you've experienced; can you share some of the experiences you've seen?

ochemjenn

I have no problem with Harry Potter.  I think there are a few childen's books that aren't appropriate for children (Adventures of Huckleberry Finn), but that's because of language.  Other than the 7th book, there's no cursing, none of them are violent, and none of them involve sexual content, so to me HP is a-okay for kids and everyone else.

The concept of a good witch is relatively new.  I believe The Wonderful Wizard of Oz (1900) was the first instance in children's lit where there was a good witch.  If HP is evil, what about the Wizard of Oz?  I wonder if the backlash against HP is that historically all witches in literature were evil.

mrandmrsbrist

Jumping into this a little late.

I'm also curious about what "results" you're talking about, Star. I wish people who haven't read the books didn't comment. They throw terms and "facts" around that they know very little to nothing about.

I think using the term "black magic" is a little out there. Black magic is defined as "Magic involving the supposed invocation of evil spirits for evil purposes." There are no "evil spirits" in HP and in fact, most of the magic in HP is used for good. There is the classic good vs. evil battle so there are people on the evil side using the same magic for not so good things, but it never has anything to do with harnessing spirts or anything like that.

My personal view: HP was interesting for me to read as a kid. I was young when the first book came out so it's been apart of my childhood to say the least. I related to the characters and loved going and getting the books and seeing the movies at midnight. But I never thought "Oh hey, I'm going to use the magic like Harry!" or whatever. That's silly.

If my kids decided they wanted to read it, I'd probably let them and have a conversation about magic. I don't see the books as dangerous.

xstarx05x

I'm talking about personal experience. People I know who have decided that they want to learn magic because they fell so in love with the world of HP. all magic is black, because God does not perform magic. We pray for miracles, not magic, right? Just because something is from your childhood does not mean you should hold onto it. 1 cor 13:11

ravenray

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_spinoff-harry-potter-evil?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:af1108c9-c024-4a85-b920-0eb6f40f8bc2Post:5a35db6c-f7a0-4d3c-a47e-8a2225e8946c">Re: SpinOff - Is Harry Potter evil?</a>:
[QUOTE]Rebecca, sure there are some Christians who hide from the world, but im referring to engaging in culture without supporting things that deny God's glory. It's called being in the world yet not of it. it's a fine line, which I can't discerne myself, so I pray for God to open my ears to what he says is right for me. We just need to be careful not to compromise too much for the sake of fitting in and beig a people pleaser. Aggie- I meant that the books influence people in the real world to dapple in black magic. Honestly, I never got that far into the first book. That's why I said I don't know much in terms of facts. I've only seen results. Drama-<strong> I'm only familiar with narnia and lotr. I know there's definitely a Christian theme in narnia. Not sure about lotr. I don't even know the plots well enough to say thatthe messages</strong> <strong>glorified god</strong>. How does the hero win in each novel/series? Sorry for not having coherent answers. Like I said, this is just what I feel from the little I know.
Posted by xstarx05x[/QUOTE]

<p style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height:115%;font-family:'Arial','sans-serif';color:#1f1f1f;font-size:8.5pt;">There is a <u>huge </u>Christian theme.  Frodo is the personification of man struggling to get rid of sin.  Gandalf is supposed to be Jesus (he died and returns to life).  It is an amazing story with in a story (or an allegory)

I too would like to know what results have come from HP? I don't think it encourages kids to use black magic.</span></p>

DramaGeek

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_spinoff-harry-potter-evil?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:af1108c9-c024-4a85-b920-0eb6f40f8bc2Post:2025fa6d-fec1-4d3e-85d8-b43d19d9aa84">Re: SpinOff - Is Harry Potter evil?</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm talking about personal experience. People I know who have decided that they want to learn magic because they fell so in love with the world of HP. all magic is black, because God does not perform magic. We pray for miracles, not magic, right? Just because something is from your childhood does not mean you should hold onto it. 1 cor 13:11
Posted by xstarx05x[/QUOTE]

But again, the magic used in Harry Potter and the magic used in real life are very, very different.  These people that you know, did they go buy a wand and start flicking their wrist while saying "accio broom"?  What kind of magic are they practicing?  The black magic I know of is more commonly called voodoo and uses voodoo dolls, herbs, things of that nature.  The potency of the spell is based on the time of day/week/month/year and the intention of the spell-sayer and does call upon spirits.  none of that occurs in HP.

You bring up a good point re: the distinction between magic and miracle.  What is the difference?  If one did not know the origin, wouldn't the two look identical?

mrandmrsbrist

Star, can you be more specific? You said you haven't read the books, so how could this be personal experience? It's either something you were involved in, or something you were told about second hand. If that's case, that brings up what I was saying before about people not really knowing what the books are about and claiming facts without actually knowing what the facts are.

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_spinoff-harry-potter-evil?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:af1108c9-c024-4a85-b920-0eb6f40f8bc2Post:afeeba0b-f511-436e-baf4-5de488ef3366">Re: SpinOff - Is Harry Potter evil?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: SpinOff - Is Harry Potter evil? : You bring up a good point re: the distinction between magic and miracle.  What is the difference?  If one did not know the origin, wouldn't the two look identical?
Posted by DramaGeek[/QUOTE]

Jesus wasn't explicitly accused of magic, but he was asked by what powers he performed the miracles. So yeah, I think they can look the same. Difference would be one is performed by the power of God and the other is not. What power is other magic done by? I have no idea. But I don't think that makes it all bad automatically.

xstarx05x

Like I said, it's people I know personally who were influenced by HP to try wicca and other things. If you're not given power from God, then where is it coming from?

DramaGeek

It is interesting to me that people would be influenced by HP to try wicca or paganism since they are so incredibly different.  I feel like maybe HP was a good scape goat?  I don't know, it just seems to me like saying, "I read about this great chicken dish, so I'm going to make fruit salad for dinner."  Both food, but totally different in all practical purposes.

Either way, I don't doubt that everything can be a temptation for various people.  Obviously alcohol is a huge temptation for some and not at all for others.  TV, computer use, even prescription pain medications can cause people to fall.  It doesn't make them inherently evil though.  And, even if HP is inherently evil, the question goes back to the original incident I cited - can the physical presence of the book be enough to cause a problem, and can the removal of the book actually cure the problem?  I have a hard time believing that an object's existence in a home can actually cause a problem, but perhaps there is something I don't remember from all my Biblical studies classes!

mrandmrsbrist

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_spinoff-harry-potter-evil?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:af1108c9-c024-4a85-b920-0eb6f40f8bc2Post:d0cc84e4-ea88-4359-8039-d406725d15e1">Re: SpinOff - Is Harry Potter evil?</a>:
[QUOTE]It is interesting to me that people would be influenced by HP to try wicca or paganism since they are so incredibly different.  I feel like maybe HP was a good scape goat?  I don't know, it just seems to me like saying, "I read about this great chicken dish, so I'm going to make fruit salad for dinner."  Both food, but totally different in all practical purposes.
Posted by DramaGeek[/QUOTE]

This.

I'm sorry, but blaming HP just seems irrational to me. But maybe there's something I'm missing here.

agape1cor813

Never read the books or seen the movies. Have no problem with them, they are a work of fiction.

The people who were influenced to experiment with Wicca after reading Harry Potter are probably uneducated sheep who were never taught or lack the ability to critically think about the difference between the a faux religion like Wicca and invisibility cloaks and three-headed dogs. Frankly, I would be more concerned with how such a person who can't tell the difference would deal with real things in the real world.

Also, don't they celebrate Christmas in the HP books? And isn't JK Rowling a Christian?

DramaGeek

agape, they do celebrate Christmas in the books (and oddly, there is only 1 mention of Halloween that I can recall, but that's a debate for another post!).  Apparently JK Rowling did say that she is a Christian, but I've never seen or read the interviews where she says that.

mrandmrsbrist

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_spinoff-harry-potter-evil?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:af1108c9-c024-4a85-b920-0eb6f40f8bc2Post:e85d1ef2-ee82-43d0-9604-03910d6ae685">Re: SpinOff - Is Harry Potter evil?</a>:
[QUOTE]Also, don't they celebrate Christmas in the HP books? And isn't JK Rowling a Christian?
Posted by agape1cor813[/QUOTE]

*nod*

mrandmrsbrist

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_spinoff-harry-potter-evil?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:af1108c9-c024-4a85-b920-0eb6f40f8bc2Post:7eb892ec-be98-4665-9d52-a2af0e9f5c4c">Re: SpinOff - Is Harry Potter evil?</a>:
[QUOTE]agape, they do celebrate Christmas in the books (and oddly, there is only 1 mention of Halloween that I can recall, but that's a debate for another post!).  Apparently JK Rowling did say that she is a Christian, but I've never seen or read the interviews where she says that.
Posted by DramaGeek[/QUOTE]

<a href="http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1572107/jk-rowling-talks-about-christian-imagery.jhtml" rel='nofollow'>http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1572107/jk-rowling-talks-about-christian-imagery.jhtml</a>

But that's the only one I could find...

mrandmrsbrist

"I go to church myself," she declared. "I don't take any responsibility for the lunatic fringes of my own religion."

 

DramaGeek

Thanks S!  If I'm completely honest, it wasn't that important to me so I didn't really look very hard.

mrandmrsbrist

It was an easy Google. Good ol' MTV.

xstarx05x

<div style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10px;background-color:initial;background-image:none;background-attachment:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;color:#1f1f1f;font:normal normal normal 11px/14px Arial, sans-serif;text-align:left;line-height:normal;">In Response to <a style="text-decoration:none;font-weight:normal;color:#1f1f1f;" href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_spinoff-harry-potter-evil?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:af1108c9-c024-4a85-b920-0eb6f40f8bc2Post:17b12dfa-df9a-4472-9ef6-55ee87b30761">Re: SpinOff - Is Harry Potter evil?</a>:
[QUOTE]Also, it's one thing if you read these books as scifi/fantasy, but the pro lem is when others use it as a tool for black magic. Truth is, Satan is real and his powers are real and people will inadvertatly turn to him to have power. So should we be saying those kinds of books are ok? <strong>Read Matthew 18:6-9</strong>
Posted by xstarx05x[/QUOTE]
</div><div style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10px;background-color:initial;background-image:none;background-attachment:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;color:#1f1f1f;font:normal normal normal 11px/14px Arial, sans-serif;text-align:left;line-height:normal;">
</div><div style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10px;background-color:initial;background-image:none;background-attachment:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;color:#1f1f1f;font:normal normal normal 11px/14px Arial, sans-serif;text-align:left;line-height:normal;">^ This is my main point, because my belief is if there is something that puts others at risk for negative outcomes, I shouldn't support it. Again, this is my belief. If you don't feel that way, then I think we've reached the end of our discussion.</div>

DramaGeek

Star, I completely understand where you're coming from.  Can I ask, where do you draw the line on that since just about everything can cause someone to stumble?  I'm honestly not trying to be argumentative, I'm just trying to understand.

xstarx05x

I actually don't know.That's the thing about being a Christian: our journey with God. We are everchanging in our beliefs and ways, all to try to be more like Jesus. In fact, I may have answered my own question regarding alcohol. In previous discussions, I've said that I was uncertain how I felt about it, and still had an occasional glass of wine with a friend. But if alcohol & its culture are such an issue for so many people, I'm sending conflicting messages my partaking. (and it definitely pull some of my friends away from God). ETA: Quite often I find myself praying for God to tell me whether my reasoning is right to think something is ok, or if I'm justifying for my own convenience. Some say it's a narrow path to heaven, but I think it's more like a funnel since we're always growing! We can't instantly become like Jesus when we decide to give our lives to him, unfortunately.

FaithCaitlin

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_spinoff-harry-potter-evil?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:af1108c9-c024-4a85-b920-0eb6f40f8bc2Post:d62abe55-0f77-4e91-8ab3-b6fcc002614a">Re: SpinOff - Is Harry Potter evil?</a>:
[QUOTE]As Christians I think it is our responsiblilty to THINK and to disern what is right and wrong.  I think this include books.  HP, are wonderful books that stretch the imagination and have encouraged millions of people to pick up a book when so many other books do not have that power.  They aren't evil, they are not meant to be an attack of Christianity, nor are they meant to be religious in any way.  I think it is a parents responsibility to allow their children to read books that they can handle.  If a child is too young they might not be able to think critically enough to decern what is real and what is fiction.  But that is with any book.  If you go into a book understanding your faith and your values I think you can apperciate the beauty of the writing and the story.  But I also though the Da Vinci Code, Angels and Demons and the 3rd book whose title is escaping me were good books.  They were fictional and had no bearing on my Christian belief they were just good stories.  sorry this is probably disjointed lol its a lot of pent up thoughts that gushed into text. 
Posted by aggiebug[/QUOTE]
I agree with all of this.