2 different views of Christianity post-

eandngalloway

Sorry I was gone so long- this is just to let you guys know that I'm back, and I'd like to keep that discussion going, because the views and explanations were helpful to me. 

Thanks!

mrandmrsbrist

Link to OP in case anyone needs it:

<a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_christian-but-2-different-religions" rel='nofollow'>http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_christian-but-2-different-religions</a>

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_christian-but-2-different-religions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:2c66e100-0778-40d0-8ddb-3c410bf4de0bPost:e5b66dde-93b0-49b1-8cee-4432ca20d182">Re: Both Christian, but 2 different religions</a>:
[QUOTE]Ok, so I guess I need to be clearer.  I consider myself Christian because I do believe Christ is the son of God, and I believe he is a savior.  The trouble I have with "it is not through deeds" is because in other parts of the bible, Luke 16, Romans 14, James 4 and John 3, it talks about how deeds are important, and how it isn't right for a person (ie human and therefore falible) to decide whether someone goes to heaven or not.  I also think that God is bigger than any religion- I can't imagine that I'm wise enough to condense him into one book.  I think God is supposed to have mysteries and we're not supposed to understand everything.  Also, I think the Bible was inspired by God, but not written by him.  How can I choose what is supposed to be literal and what is not.  I think your belief has to be all or nothing where the literality of the bible is concerned. As for evolution- I look at it like dominos.  Everything was set up, and did take billions of years, but something had to give the world its "spark of life".  I have no explanaition for that besides God.  Thank you all for your input, and I'm sorry it took me so long to respond.  I do appreciate talking about this with you, and I hope we can continue the discussion. 
Posted by eandngalloway[/QUOTE]

SoonToBeGenao

Sorry, eandngalloway, It seems I missed the OP but I'm glad Sarah reposted that section right there. I should hook you into a conversation with my FI. He has a lot of those kind of beliefs that you do. We were baptized together last summer and are new in our faith together, but he leans his beliefs more the way you describe yours, when I'm a "blind believer" as my pastor calls me. I love the differences though because we are able to challenge each other, pray together, and seek truths together. Sometimes we learn that one may be more right than the other, and other times it will flip. Ultimately God will have all the answers.

eandngalloway

It's good to hear that two people like that can get along.  My FI is so set in his beliefs that we're considering how to raise our kids.  I don't want him to compromise on HIS beliefs, but I want my kids to be open.  Part of me feels like if you say "you aren't a believer in Christ, you aren't going to heaven" makes people judgemental, or condescending towards others.  I just don't think that's the way to raise kids. 

fpaemp2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_2-different-views-of-christianity-post?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:d750ee0e-7a87-449a-a690-ae2c5978675ePost:668b47d0-3e9d-4769-b53f-e88caa735890">Re: 2 different views of Christianity post-</a>:
[QUOTE]Part of me feels like if you say "you aren't a believer in Christ, you aren't going to heaven" makes people judgemental, or condescending towards others.  I just don't think that's the way to raise kids. 
Posted by eandngalloway[/QUOTE]<div>Well, this may come across as harsh, but if they don't believe in Christ as their Savior, they won't go to Heaven.  So, you could have kids who never believe and end up in Hell, or you could train up your children with Biblical truth, pray that they will understand the truth and be saved, and teach them to share their faith with the world.  (Proverbs 22:6, Matthew 28:18-20, Titus 2:1-10)</div><div>
</div><div>Witnessing and sharing your faith shouldn't come across as judgmental, as we are all sinners and all deserve eternal separation from the perfect and Holy God.  We should be warning people that God WILL judge them, and if they haven't believed in His only begotten Son, the One who tore the veil and made a way to end that separation, as their Savior, He will have zero mercy on them.</div><div>
</div><div>Yes, I believe that Christ is the ONLY way to Heaven and all other worldviews are wrong, which is why I'm a Christian. (John 14:6)
I know God is working in my life and would be totally lost without Him.</div><div>
</div><div>I believe that scripture is God-breathed and inerrant.  He gave "every jot and tittle" to the authors.  My husband understands much more about how the Protestant Canon was formed than I do, but I believe that the Bible I read and that my pastors and parents taught me out of is the Word of God for His children. (2 Timothy 3:16)</div><div>
</div><div>I believe that the world and everything in it was created in 6, 24 hour days about 6,000 years ago,after adding up the ages in the genealogy passages until Christ's birth 2,000 years ago.  I do not believe in macroevolution at all.  God could have created everything with a twitch of His nose, but He didn't.  He told us it was 6 days, so it was 6 days. </div><div>One example- plants were created on day 2.  The sun wasn't created until day 3.  Plants could live a day without sunlight, but they couldn't live for weeks or months or thousands of years without it.  (Genesis 1:9-19)</div><div>
</div>

danimcg

One example- plants were created on day 2.  The sun wasn't created until day 3.  Plants could live a day without sunlight, but they couldn't live for weeks or months or thousands of years without it.  (Genesis 1:9-19)

Wow, this is so interesting and I am amazed I have never noticed this or thought about it. My mind is blown, lol. I think you may have just made my night. I believe in 6 literal days of creation, and this is such an awesome argument for it, thank you!

iamjoesgurl

It is late and I should really be sleeping, but I wanted to post this one thing before I go to bed.  In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus spoke about false prophets and prefaced this by saying that the road to eternal life is narrow.  Satan is the great deceiver.  He would have us believe that there are many ways to Heaven but if you read Jesus's words here (Matthew 7), it seems that He was saying that many people will be deceived.  The scriptures point to Christ's death and resurrection as the only way to God.  I would agree that it is not our place to judge peoples' hearts and whether or not they belleve in Christ and will go to Heaven, but as a parent, it will be your responsibility to teach your children the truth.  

I would encourage you to search the scriptures, pray for God's revelations and be open to His voice.  

I love posts like this because it provides for open dialog about the true foundations of the scriptures.  I usually learn a lot from the other ladies.  Hopefully you and FIcan come to an agreement on how to raise your children to know the truth.

BronwynH

So, this semester I'm taking a class on the Pentateuch and yesterday we were actually looking at Genesis chapter 1. I have read it many times, but I haven't given too much though to it because I don't think that how God chose to create the world is an issue of salvation. While it's interesting to debate if it was 6 literal days, or 6 day-ages in the end it doesnt even matter.

 the Hebrew word "Yom" which is used alot in Genesis 1 can refer to daylight, the cycle of day/night which would make it a 24 hour day, or to longer periods of time. & in the chapter it is also translated as "when" which would denote a longer period of time.

 It is also interesting to note that in Genesis chapter 1, the author does not seem to be concerned with how the world was created. The focus is on God creating, but not the specifics of how he created. In the Ancient Near East during that time, people thought that matter had always existed just like we believe that God has always existed. The Hebrews or Israelites would have held this view as well. While most protestant Christians today believe that God created "ex nihilo" (out of nothing), they would have seen it more as God shaping, forming, and giving order to mattter that was already there. Both views are supported by different verses, which I think goes to show that in the end it doesn't really matter, but is interesting nonetheless.

SoonToBeGenao

Wow thanks Bronwyn that's pretty interesting stuff. I'd love to take a class like that. Maybe after the wedding when things settle down a little.

BronwynH

OP - to address some of the things that you brought up I'm posing again. I wholeheartedly believe that Christ is the only way to heaven, and I totally see where you're stuggaling with faith or works, faith, or works. This is what I have come to believe about this issue after much consideration and prayer: You must believe that Jesus Christ is God's son and that he died for the sins of the world and commit your life to him in order to be saved. I would argue that if there are not deeds or works in your life than you aren't a Christ follower or Christian, but I don't think it's works that saves someone. If you faith (faith is a verb in the original language) in Christ then works automatically follow. I don't think that the word "believe" is a good translation because when we think of believe it's just to know a fact, but faith is a totally different thing and we tend to mix the two up alot. The Bible even says that the demons believe in Christ, but that doesn't make demons Christians. So it's important to believe, and have faith (fully commiting your life to Christ) with works that follow it.

DaKelliAB09

Sorry I'm a little late to post. 

 Like PPs, I believe Christ is the only way to heaven.  You shouldn’t keep the truth from your kids.  It’s being honest.  And honestly, sometimes I think kids are more accepting of these teachings then adults are.

I have also struggled with works vs. faith.  But I believe one follows the other, when you make that commitment to Christ that belief turns into faith which produces good deeds/works.  As Christians we are new creations (Galatians 2:20 ... it is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me) upon becoming a Christian your old self dies and now Christ lives in you.    There's now a want and a drive inside of you that makes you want to do good deeds ( I guess I can't speak for everyone but this is how it is for me and most Christians I know).  I definitely don’t believe works alone will earn you salvation; it’s definitely faith in Christ and accepting Him as a savior that saves you.  His grace covers us. 
My own personal experience, I really struggled with this because I had a group of friends that they themselves refer to themselves as "The Grace Guys."  They're so anti works and believe that once you're saved you can just rest and hang out until you get to Heaven and would pretty much bash any kind of works (even if they were good deeds driven by faith not to earn salvation).  Then, I had other friends who are the extreme opposite and it’s all works, works, works!  I believe both go together, as there are verses that support both TOGETHER.  We are saved by grace (Ephesians 2:8 and then on to 10 where it says we are created for good works through Christ Jesus, but it isn’t us, it’s Christ living in us, so our good works are because of Him for Him… ), but faith without works is unfruitful/dead (James 2:17-20) and our good deeds don’t go unnoticed which goes into rewards.  

SO I’m going to go into Salvation vs. Rewards.  These are 2 different things.  Salvation is a free gift given to us, but rewards are given to us based on our good works after we are saved.  Salvation is Jesus’ work on the cross and God does not show partiality when it comes to salvation (Acts 10:34).  The bible also states that those who are saved will also receive rewards in Heaven There are many people who will receive some or maybe no rewards at all but will still obtain salvation and go to Heaven.

Some of the good works mentioned in Scripture which will be rewarded include: perseverance under persecution (Luke 6:22-23), caring for the needy (Matthew 25:34-36), treating enemies kindly (Luke 6:35), prayer (Matthew 6:6), fasting (Matthew 6:18) and generous giving (Matthew 19:21)

Some of the good deeds aren't even that hard and as Christians we just do them without thinking that they are actually deeds, then others are a bit more challenging. 

I think I'm going to end this post here.  It's past midnight!

I hope this helps.  I went back and read your original post, since I'm pretty new to the board and I'm definitely agreeing with PPs.  If this is at all confusing don't be afraid to ask me questions.

 

 

eandngalloway

I guess I'm struggling with the idea that although God is merciful and forgiving, if you don't believe in his son as your ONLY salvation, then you'll go to hell.  Or at least not heaven.  I also think it isn't being christian that makes you want to do good works, but being religious.  I'm sure that individually, Christ influences his own Christians to do good works, but I think equally, other religions teach that good works are important, I don't think Christians have a monopoly. 
What do you think about teaching children that they as individuals can believe the Christ is the only way to heaven, but we can't make that judgement for other people because in Romans 13 and Romans 14, we are told not to judge others, and worry about our own faith instead. 

DaKelli- can you explain more about rewards vs salvation?  I'm still a little lost...

sessionswedding

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_2-different-views-of-christianity-post?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:d750ee0e-7a87-449a-a690-ae2c5978675ePost:803f824f-1ce7-4a7b-99ae-ba1ed7b9e098">Re: 2 different views of Christianity post-</a>:
[QUOTE]I guess I'm struggling with the idea that although God is merciful and forgiving, if you don't believe in his son as your ONLY salvation, then you'll go to hell.  Or at least not heaven.  I also think it isn't being christian that makes you want to do good works, but being religious.  I'm sure that individually, Christ influences his own Christians to do good works, but I think equally, other religions teach that good works are important, I don't think Christians have a monopoly.  <strong>What do you think about teaching children that they as individuals can believe the Christ is the only way to heaven, but we can't make that judgement for other people because in Romans 13 and Romans 14, we are told not to judge others, and worry about our own faith instead.</strong>  DaKelli- can you explain more about rewards vs salvation?  I'm still a little lost...
Posted by eandngalloway[/QUOTE]
That's against the Great Commission.

Then Jesus came to them and said, <font class="woj">“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.</font> <font class="woj"><sup class="versenum"><strong><font size="2">19</font></strong></sup> Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,</font> <font class="woj"><sup class="versenum"><strong><font size="2">20</font></strong></sup> and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” - Matthew 28:18-20 (NIV)
</font>
Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven, period.  Even if it doesn't seem fair.

mrandmrsbrist

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_2-different-views-of-christianity-post?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:d750ee0e-7a87-449a-a690-ae2c5978675ePost:803f824f-1ce7-4a7b-99ae-ba1ed7b9e098">Re: 2 different views of Christianity post-</a>:
[QUOTE]I guess I'm struggling with the idea that although God is merciful and forgiving, if you don't believe in his son as your ONLY salvation, then you'll go to hell.  Or at least not heaven.  I<strong> also think it isn't being christian that makes you want to do good works, but being religious.  I'm sure that individually, Christ influences his own Christians to do good works, but I think equally, other religions teach that good works are important, I don't think Christians have a monopoly. </strong> What do you think about teaching children that they as individuals can believe the Christ is the only way to heaven, but we can't make that judgement for other people because in Romans 13 and Romans 14, we are told not to judge others, and worry about our own faith instead.  DaKelli- can you explain more about rewards vs salvation?  I'm still a little lost...
Posted by eandngalloway[/QUOTE]

I'll address this part since no else has yet.

James 2:14-26(ish) talks about how faith without works is dead. Works are important part of having faith...they give your faith action. I don't equate faith with religion. Religion is rules without meaning or purpose. A good example of religion is the Pharisees in the NT. You can see in Matthew how over and over again Jesus rebukes them for being religious.

eandngalloway

Brist- It seemed to me like what Jesus was actually telling the Pharisees was not that they shouldn't be religious, but that they shouldn't act "holier than thou".  Why is someone's good work, when done for the God of the Torah, or Allah, or for the purpose of reincarnation, not as good, as when those works are done in the name of Jesus?  Others' belief in other Gods are just as strong as your beliefs in yours.  
I've struggled with this point, because I think there's a fine line between saying "I'm special to God" and "I'm special because of God, and you don't have God so you're not special".  It seems to invite self-righteousness. 

fpaemp2011

Being "holier-than-thou" and "self-righteous" IS being religious...and I really don't like when people are "religious," especially if they claim to be Christians.  Being a Christ-Follower, or Christian, is about recognizing that Christ is your ONLY hope for salvation and wanting the world to know that truth- using your testimony of what your life was like before you sought Christ's forgiveness and what He's done and is doing with your life since.  

If someone tells an unsaved person that they're not special because they, "don't have God," then they've missed the point.  They should be sharing the {sometimes hard to hear} truth with love. (Ephesians 4:15)

"Truth without love is legalism (religion).  Love without truth is liberalism (univeralism)." ~Dr. Ergun Caner

mrandmrsbrist

First of all, ditto Emily. Acting "holier than thou" is being religious. Thinking you're hot stuff because you follow the rules that other people don't is being religious. Sorry I didn't communicate that clearly.

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_2-different-views-of-christianity-post?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:d750ee0e-7a87-449a-a690-ae2c5978675ePost:91ce6779-5ee5-4bb5-ac7b-24db80f1dd94">Re: 2 different views of Christianity post-</a>:
[QUOTE]Others' belief in other Gods are just as strong as your beliefs in yours.   I've struggled with this point, because I think there's a fine line between saying "I'm special to God" and "I'm special because of God, and you don't have God so you're not special".  It seems to invite self-righteousness. 
Posted by eandngalloway[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry, but did I say this...? I don't understand what you're getting at.

I believe that everyone is special to God. He loves and created everyone, but sin is what keeps us apart from Him. And as far as I'm concerned, my sin is just as bad as everyone else's so I'm not more special or less special.

sessionswedding

It seems to me like you reeeallly want universalism.  It's just not the case.  "Good works" completely aside, religion does not get you to heaven.  Jesus does.

DramaGeek

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_2-different-views-of-christianity-post?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:d750ee0e-7a87-449a-a690-ae2c5978675ePost:c6d55f6c-cdcd-4582-9b25-a46c92a2c697">Re: 2 different views of Christianity post-</a>:
[QUOTE]It seems to me like you reeeallly want universalism.  It's just not the case.  "Good works" completely aside, religion does not get you to heaven.  Jesus does.
Posted by sessionswedding[/QUOTE]

<div>I was thinking the same thing.</div>

DaKelliAB09

So I agree with all of the above!! Sorry I'm just now posting back and I'm sure this is going to be a novel...

You are correct about other religions maybe motivating people to do good works, but being a Christian isn't about religion it's a relationship.  I'm not religious,  I have a relationship with Christ.  Yes, other religions teach good works, but doing good works without having faith is tiring and that's when people tend to fall out of their "religion." We can’t do it on our own. Period.  Even the person that appears to be the most perfect and has it all together isn’t perfect.

I'm sorry if this comes across harsh, but you say you believe in Christ, right?  But you don't see how believing in Christ is your only salvation?  Do you not remember what happened and why Christ came?  It's because good works alone can't save us.  We are incapable of earning salvation on our own.  So Christ was sent and he died a really brutal death on the cross for US so that we can go to Heaven.  He is our way to Heaven. 

  “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.  I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?  No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.

 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.  This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.  But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God."  John 3:10-21 

"The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all.  He testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony. Whoever has accepted it has certified that God is truthful.  For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit. The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands.  Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them." John 3:31-36

I guess I'm struggling with the idea that although God is merciful and forgiving, if you don't believe in his son as your ONLY salvation, then you'll go to hell.  Or at least not heaven.

God is merciful and forgiving, but he’s also righteous and just.  We are NOT and never will be on our own.  His love is so great for us that he did send His Son.  His Son took on the sins of the world and died for us so that we CAN have a way to Heaven. “For God so loved the world that He gave His Son…”  John 3:16

If we were capable of following the 613 laws in the bible then God wouldn’t have had to send His Son.  It’s so strange to me how you say you believe and consider yourself a Christian and it doesn’t bother you if someone doesn’t believe in Christ considering what He did for us and your future children.  Christ is the way to Heaven.  He is the truth.  The Bible is truth. 

Ok... moving on...

Salvation is a free gift.  Salvation is earned by believing and accepting that Christ is your savior. And by believing your surrendering yourself to Christ. Your old self dies and you are made new in Christ  Galatians 2:20 ... While works are not required for salvation they're a part of your new identity.  Christ lives in you. 

It is mentioned several times and this is actually something I've just started learning and never paid much attention to it in the Bible until now.  Good works do no go unrecognized.  I always thought they wouldn't mean anything.  But I was so wrong.  We will actually be given rewards for the good deeds we have done on earth. 

"...each one will recieve his own reward according to his own labor." 1 Corinthians 3:8

So some rewards mentioned:  1) Crown of Righteousness -  2 Timothy 4:7-8  2)  Incorruptable Crown - 1 Corinthians 9:24-27    3) The Crown of Life - Revelation 2:10  4) Crown of Rejoicing - 1 Thessalonians 2:19-20  5) The Crown of Glory - 1 Peter 5:1-4

 

But as I say all of this... You shouldn't do good works with the selfish "I'm going to get a reward out of this attitude" ... I think as long as we do what we're called to do then we're doing the work that God wants us to do and it will be noticed in Heaven.  I believe entering into Heaven is a huge reward itself.  I honestly can't wait....

Sorry this is a novel...

DaKelliAB09

Sorry my font is all huge I wrote it in word because I knew it would take me a little while to write and copied it over to here ... so sorry if it bugs anyone!! I couldn't change it

eandngalloway

I'll explain my self-righteousness thing first-  It's more aimed at what I think it would do to kids to teach them that they're going to heaven because they believe in Jesus, but little Joey down the corner isn't, because he's Jewish.  I absolutely think you should tell your children they are special every day, but I don't think you should do it at the cost of teaching them that others are less special.  I'm afraid that even though as an adult you can understand the difference, a child won't.  
Also, I'm struggling with how many people will be condemned because they have their own faith, but it's not faith in Christ.  Will they really be condemned for believing something just as strongly as you believe in Christ?  Even if they lived a good life?  Especially Jews and Muslims, who believe in the same God, but not Jesus?
The verse from John struck me: "This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.  But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God."
I guess we can agree that works are important, but I still don't see how we can classify everyone that truly and honestly believes in something/someone else as bad (which isn't the right word, but I hope you know what I mean).  It seems like although John is pointing out "living by the truth", which I assume is Jesus, that he also talks about people not coming into the light because their deeds are evil. 
Also, when judgement day rolls around, will God give everyone a final chance to repent? 
And a final question (for now)- what about everyone that lived before Jesus.  How does that work? Are they doomed to hell because he hadn't come to earth yet? 

fpaemp2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_2-different-views-of-christianity-post?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:d750ee0e-7a87-449a-a690-ae2c5978675ePost:b8520c73-a1dd-43e0-8abb-4a1825038a38">Re: 2 different views of Christianity post-</a>:
[QUOTE]I'll explain my self-righteousness thing first-  It's more aimed at what I think it would do to kids to teach them that they're going to heaven because they believe in Jesus, but little Joey down the corner isn't, because he's Jewish.  I absolutely think you should tell your children they are special every day, but I don't think you should do it at the cost of teaching them that others are less special.  I'm afraid that even though as an adult you can understand the difference, a child won't.   <div>Also, I'm struggling with how many people will be condemned because they have their own faith, but it's not faith in Christ.  Will they really be condemned for believing something just as strongly as you believe in Christ?  Even if they lived a good life? Posted by eandngalloway[/QUOTE]</div><div>If their faith isn't in Christ, then it's a no-go.  That's why it's important to NOT be apathetic towards other worldviews, but to know how to witness to them and pray that they come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ, and to take the gospel to every corner of this earth.  If there's an unreached people group, it's our (the Church's) fault.  It's important to teach this to your children as well.  A "good life" without a relationship with Christ is worthless, EVEN IF you're doing those "good deeds" in the <em>name </em>of the Christian Religion. </div><div>
</div><div><em>Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will fo My Father in heaven.  Many will say to Me in the day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prohesied in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' Ad then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'  Matthew 7:21-23</em></div><div>
</div><div>You MUST have a relationship with Christ to get to Heaven.  Period. </div><div>
</div><div>[QUOTE] Especially Jews and Muslims, who believe in the same God, but not Jesus?[/QUOTE]</div><div>Jews do believe in our Father God, but Muslims do not.  Allah is the moon god, who was worshipped by pagan Arabs.</div><div>Meccan Arabs are descendents of Ishmael (Genesis 16- Abraham's son, Isaac's half-brother), but their diety is not the same as ours.</div><div><a href="http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm">http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm</a></div><div><a href="http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/skm30804.htm">http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/skm30804.htm</a></div><div>
</div><div><div>[QUOTE] Also, when judgement day rolls around, will God give everyone a final chance to repent?  Posted by eandngalloway[/QUOTE]</div></div><div>No.  That's why it's important to witness now and teach the truth to your children from birth.  There will not be a "final chance"...there isn't a plea bargain. If you've repented of your sins and sought forgiveness through the blood of Christ, God will grant you mercy and you'll be welcomed into Heaven.  If you haven't, He will have no mercy.  The only way to get mercy is through forgiveness.</div><div>
</div><div>
</div><div>[QUOTE]  And a final question (for now)- what about everyone that lived before Jesus.  How does that work? Are they doomed to hell because he hadn't come to earth yet? <div>Posted by eandngalloway[/QUOTE]
</div><div>Before Christ, all of the dead went to Sheol (translated Hades in some versions).  This was not a place of torment or paradise, but of waiting apart from God.  At Christ's resurrection, those who had been faithful (living out the laws of Judaism under the Old Covenant) were welcomed in the comfort of Abraham's bosom.  Those who had not were sent to eternal torment in Hell. </div><div>
</div><div><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheol">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheol</a></div><div><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosom_of_Abraham">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosom_of_Abraham</a></div><div>
</div><div>**I don't know where Elijah went when he was "taken up," and DH is working at the church office right now.  Rebecca or Bronwyn??</div>
</div>

sessionswedding

You keep saying "good deeds" and "good life."  According to Isaiah 64:6, all of our so-called "righteousness" is like filthy rags to God.  We CAN'T have a good life in the eyes of God!  God demands absolute perfection.  Not an "I'll try to be good," not an "I believe strongly in something," but perfection.  Perfection is impossible for humans, which is why we need the blood of Jesus to cover us.

fpaemp2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_2-different-views-of-christianity-post?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:d750ee0e-7a87-449a-a690-ae2c5978675ePost:3f971d81-1df2-4d01-a413-5f62eaebc78e">Re: 2 different views of Christianity post-</a>:
[QUOTE]You keep saying "good deeds" and "good life."  According to Isaiah 64:6, all of our so-called "righteousness" is like filthy rags to God.  We CAN'T have a good life in the eyes of God!  God demands absolute perfection .  Not an "I'll try to be good," not an "I believe strongly in something," but perfection .  Perfection is impossible for humans, which is why we need the blood of Jesus to cover us.
Posted by sessionswedding[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>Yep.  There is only ONE narrow way.</div><div>
</div><div>Luke 18:18-30</div><div><p style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;line-height:10.5pt;" class="MsoNormal"><strong>^{<span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;color:black;">18</span>}</strong><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;color:black;"> Now a certain ruler asked Him, saying, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” <span style="background-image:initial;background-attachment:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;background-color:white;background-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial;">
</span><strong>¹⁹</strong> So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one <em>is</em> good but One, <em>that is,</em> God. <strong>²⁰</strong> You know the commandments: <em>‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’</em> <em>‘Honor your father and your mother.’</em>”<span style="background-image:initial;background-attachment:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;background-color:white;background-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial;">
</span><strong>²¹</strong> And he said, “All these things I have kept from my youth.” <span style="background-image:initial;background-attachment:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;background-color:white;background-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial;">
</span><strong>²²</strong> So when Jesus heard these things, He said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” <span style="background-image:initial;background-attachment:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;background-color:white;background-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial;">
</span><strong>²³</strong> But when he heard this, he became very sorrowful, for he was very rich.  <strong>²⁴</strong> And when Jesus saw that he became very sorrowful, He said, “How hard it is for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God! <strong>²⁵</strong> For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”</span><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;color:black;">And those who heard it said, “Who then can be saved?”  But He said, “The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.”  Then Peter said, “See, we have left all and followed You.” </span><strong>^{<span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;color:black;">29</span>}</strong><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;color:black;"> So He said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or parents or brothers or wife or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God, <strong>³⁰</strong> who shall not receive many times more in this present time, and in the age to come eternal life.”</span></p>
</div>

ochemjenn

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_2-different-views-of-christianity-post?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:d750ee0e-7a87-449a-a690-ae2c5978675ePost:3f971d81-1df2-4d01-a413-5f62eaebc78e">Re: 2 different views of Christianity post-</a>:
[QUOTE]You keep saying "good deeds" and "good life."  According to Isaiah 64:6, all of our so-called "righteousness" is like filthy rags to God.  We CAN'T have a good life in the eyes of God!  God demands absolute perfection .  Not an "I'll try to be good," not an "I believe strongly in something," but perfection .  Perfection is impossible for humans, which is why we need the blood of Jesus to cover us.
Posted by sessionswedding[/QUOTE]

I think this is a very important point.  As humans we can never be perfect and follow all of the laws in the Old Testament.  God sent Jesus as the ulimate sacrifice to save us from our sins.

OP, I've had a lot of the same thoughts as you.  It is nearly incomprehenisble to me that people who seem like "good" people will not got to heaven because they haven't been saved.  The thing is, my standard for "good" is not nearly as stringent as God's standard.  You're a nice person, you're good in my book, but for God, you must be free of sin.  All people are sinners, though, which is why we need Jesus to wash away the sin.

It makes me sad that not all of my friends will go to Heaven, because some of them do not believe.  Being sad about it doesn't change God's requirements though.  If I had children, I would raise them in the Church because I would want them to know and accept Jesus Christ as Savior.  Parents are supposed to provide for their children, not only physically, but spiritually.  As a believer in God, Christ, and Heaven, I would want my child to go to Heaven (when God calls).

Emily, thanks for the explanation about Sheol. 

mrandmrsbrist

Ditto what everyone else has said.

In your case, OP, I plan to tell my children that, yes, little Joey down in the corner doesn't have faith in Jesus and without Jesus little Joey down in the corner will be going to hell. That's sad, I get that. That's why you don't want to tell your children that. But personally, I'd rather tell my children truth and have that motivate them to talk to little Joey down in the corner than to lie to them and have them going through life thinking everything is fine.

eandngalloway

I have no problem teaching my kids about sadness.  They'll learn that when their grandparents die, or their dog, or a friend's parent.  What concerns me, ultimately, is that teaching people that some are going to heaven and others to hell teaches them that some people are "different" and history has shown us that differences lead to hatred, and fear.  THAT is what I want to avoid. 
Plus, if I were a parent and some kid from down the street started preaching to my little Joey that he was going to hell, I would be royally PISSED. 
I don't understand how it's ok for us to think we can understand God and Jesus enough to judge others on whether they go to heaven or hell.  How do we have the right to teach others that they're going to hell?

You keep saying "good deeds" and "good life."  According to Isaiah 64:6, all of our so-called "righteousness" is like filthy rags to God.  We CAN'T have a good life in the eyes of God!  God demands absolute perfection .  Not an "I'll try to be good," not an "I believe strongly in something," but perfection .  Perfection is impossible for humans, which is why we need the blood of Jesus to cover us.
Posted by sessionswedding

Jesus died for everyone, and he specified that.  So, although no one is perfect (and I'm not sure God demands perfection from us, he created us as imperfect beings, and I'm sure he knew it), aren't we ALL saved by Jesus? 
Why will God not be merciful in the end days?  What part of the bible makes you think he's going to be hard-hearted towards his children.  What about the prodigal son?

fpaemp2011

If someone has rejected Christ, they will go to Hell if they don't repent before they die.  This includes those who do not claim to be Christians, or Christ-followers, no matter how much faith they have in someone/thing else.

 If someone is claiming they're a Christian, but not living like a Christian, then it would not be okay to tell them they're not saved.  That's between them and God.  You can pray for them and live a Christian life before them, and talk to them about the sin in their life, but only they know if they're saved or not.

Christians will be persecuted for witnessing.  Persecution is worse in other areas of the world than we could even imagine.  If your child is sharing Christ, they will more than likely make someone mad at somepoint in their life.  You and your husband should teach them to "share the truth in love."  Not militantly telling their friends that they're going to Hell.

What do you mean by "aren't we ALL saved by Jesus?" 

The "end days" are different from Judgemet Day.  Revelation describes a remnant during the Tribulation.  After Chrsitians are taken to Heaven in the Rapture, there will be some who realize what happened and will accept Christ in those 7 years.  However, at the Great White Throne Judgement when God separates the goats from the sheep, those who are not saved from those who are, there will not be a second chance.  Again, that's why it's important to witness now.  We don't know when the rapture will be.  We don't know when people will die in the tribulation.  Some may die soon after the rapture and not have a "second chance" at all.

ravenray

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_2-different-views-of-christianity-post?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:d750ee0e-7a87-449a-a690-ae2c5978675ePost:a4aa6153-86f2-41af-b20a-ba32577813d8">Re: 2 different views of Christianity post-</a>:
[QUOTE]I have no problem teaching my kids about sadness.  They'll learn that when their grandparents die, or their dog, or a friend's parent.  What concerns me, ultimately, is that teaching people that some are going to heaven and others to hell teaches them that some people are "different" and history has shown us that differences lead to hatred, and fear.  THAT is what I want to avoid.  Plus, if I were a parent and some kid from down the street started preaching to my little Joey that he was going to hell, I would be royally PISSED.  I don't understand how it's ok for us to think we can understand God and Jesus enough to judge others on whether they go to heaven or hell.  How do we have the right to teach others that they're going to hell? You keep saying "good deeds" and "good life."  According to Isaiah 64:6, all of our so-called "righteousness" is like filthy rags to God.  We CAN'T have a good life in the eyes of God!  God demands absolute perfection .  Not an "I'll try to be good," not an "I believe strongly in something," but perfection .  Perfection is impossible for humans, which is why we need the blood of Jesus to cover us. Posted by sessionswedding Jesus died for everyone, and he specified that.  <strong>So, although no one is perfect (and I'm not sure God demands perfection from us, he created us as imperfect beings, and I'm sure he knew it</strong>), aren't we ALL saved by Jesus?  Why will God not be merciful in the end days?  What part of the bible makes you think he's going to be hard-hearted towards his children.  <strong>What about the prodigal son?
</strong>Posted by eandngalloway[/QUOTE]
<span style="line-height:115%;font-family:'Arial','sans-serif';color:#1f1f1f;font-size:8.5pt;">No God did create us as perfect beings, we choose to become imperfect and have never been able to obtain that perfection again. 
If you wonder if he might be hard hearted take a look at the Old Testament.  He was not very merciful.  It is not much a stretch to believe that he could and would do this again.
The prodigal son repented of his sins with weeping and was forgiven.  I think the girls point is that God isn't going to save those that don't want to be saved.  If you don't repent then you won't be saved.  The idea was that salvation was a gift.  You have to accept the gift though to be able to have if.  If you don' accept when then you won't be saved.  But I will say who can judge what God will do.  He is all powerful and no one can say who is saved and who isn't saved. </span> <p style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;" class="MsoNormal"><span style="line-height:115%;font-family:'Arial','sans-serif';color:#1f1f1f;font-size:8.5pt;">Look I know it is hard to think judgment upon everyone else, so don’t.<span>  </span>It isn’t your job to judge who is saved and who isn’t, instead be concerned with your own salvation. <span> </span>This doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t reach out to other people, like we are doing to you, but still be concerned with you and your family’s salvation. </span></p>

sessionswedding

<p>In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_2-different-views-of-christianity-post?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:d750ee0e-7a87-449a-a690-ae2c5978675ePost:a4aa6153-86f2-41af-b20a-ba32577813d8">Re: 2 different views of Christianity post-</a>:
[QUOTE]I have no problem teaching my kids about sadness.  They'll learn that when their grandparents die, or their dog, or a friend's parent.  What concerns me, ultimately, is that teaching people that some are going to heaven and others to hell teaches them that some people are "different" and history has shown us that differences lead to hatred, and fear.  THAT is what I want to avoid.[/QUOTE]
But people ARE different!  There <em>is</em> hatred, and there <em>is</em> fear, and teaching your children otherwise will only hurt them in the long run.  People are going to hate me, you, and your kids whether they believe in heaven and hell or not.  You can't save them from the world.

[QUOTE]Plus, if I were a parent and some kid from down the street started preaching to my little Joey that he was going to hell, I would be royally PISSED.  I don't understand how it's ok for us to think we can understand God and Jesus enough to judge others on whether they go to heaven or hell. <strong> How do we have the right to teach others that they're going to hell?</strong>[/QUOTE]
We have the Bible, which is God-breathed (2 Timothy 3:16).  If it says it in there, it's the truth.  If you don't believe that the Bible is true, then you can just go ahead and stop worrying about all of this, because the Bible is where we've all been getting the answers for all of your questions. 

[QUOTE]Jesus died for everyone, and he specified that.  So, although no one is perfect (and I'm not sure God demands perfection from us, he created us as imperfect beings, and I'm sure he knew it), aren't we ALL saved by Jesus?  Why will God not be merciful in the end days?  What part of the bible makes you think he's going to be hard-hearted towards his children.  What about the prodigal son?
[/QUOTE]
OK.  Wow.  So many things wrong with this part.

1.  Jesus died for everyone.  But you're not automatically saved.  You still have to accept him as your Lord, your Savior, and your ONLY WAY TO THE FATHER (John 14:6).  If you believe there are other ways to heaven, you are not saved.

2.  God actually<em> did</em> create us perfect (Genesis 2), WE are the ones who sinned and became imperfect (Genesis 3).  God never changes, Q.E.D. He still demands of us the same things He did when we were created.

3.  Who are you to question Gods motives or actions?  Who are any of us to do that?  But if you really want to know, you're gonna have to ask Him yourself.

4.  The prodigal son didn't just have salvation thrown at him while he was still out with the prostitutes.  He gave up that life, came back home, and repented of his sins.  Notice that the father didn't go out looking for the son, but <em>the son came home</em>.  There's a moral to that story.</p>