FSisInLaw

GunzNRoses213

Ok so back in Dec. my FI and his sister who is 28 [ he's 31] Had a monster fight about responsibilities of them towards their parents.. They basically fought over who was less busy to have to take his dad to the doctor for a minor procedure... This just errupted a battle that's been brewing for years... My FI cant stand my FSIL boyfriend ... Cant stand him at all ... He say she has changed her attitude about everything , been stuckup , has no time for family and he's left to deal with it ... She moved in with her bf which was shady as it was not gonna lie ... She goes to church ,claims to be walking with the Lord , but again moved in with her bf of almost 5 years who happens to be Catholic.... Rumors of engagement swirled but she said no not right now ...

Bf came to the house the other day and asked thier dad permission to marry her ... They said they didnt agree that he's not saved but that she is an adult and can do as she pleases...

My FI flipped... [ not infront of bf ]  He cant stand him , and has barly said two words to his sister since the fight in Dec. She's been super distant from the family since the fight in Dec. and has rarly been to church as well . I tried pointing out to him that she prolly hasnt been in since they are not on speaking terms. She tried messaging him and asking if they could talk and he said he needed time yet because he needs to formulate what he wants to say .

He usually  gets too mad and flips before he can process/get his real honest point across it just gets him so angry ... His parents are sick of those two fighting and so am I . She is sapose to be in our wedding and this is how they act.

She is almost impossible to get ahold of she pulls out of plans with me constantly.. First she says she can ,then she either asks if her BF could come or she backs out .. Or she shows up for 5 min and leaves ...

So Saturday morning his mom tells me that she called Fri night and now they are engaged ...Got engaged the same place we did ... I was sapose to break the news to him ... So i did.. and of course he flipped again and i couldnt get him to stop almost the whole day he was that upset /mad.

I'm totally stuck in the middle... The guy isnt saved... Other then that he is what he is ... And the whole thing is her choice... I have told her a few times what i think about him not being saved and a few other things but she's already made her mind up.. I dont think the wedding will happen any time soon they are both in school .. I think he might have just given her the ring and might just wait awhile since they are already living together .. They waited almost 5 years to be engaged what's the rush now ? I kinda think she is making a mistake to stay with him and one minute she wants to be engaged/married the next she brushed it off like it's nothing ...

I want those two to make up [ my FI and his sister ] But I dont know how to get him to calm down about the whole thing long enough to honestly tell her what a mistake he thinks she is making ... I dont want it weird for the wedding but it's too late for that ....

I've talked to his mom and vise versa about having an intervention ...with both siblings and let them talk but she's afraid WW3 will break out ... I suggested everybody get an oppurtunity to say what they wanna say without interupting but if they start to yell then their turn is up ...

Any idea as to how to help mend besides TONS of prayer ... It's Dad's birthday on Sat. and we are all sapose to be there... It could get ugly ...

DramaGeek

I hate to say it, but your fiance needs to let his very adult sister live her adult life.  They are her decisions - you don't have to agree with them, but she's the one living the life.  He has two choices - accept things the way they are or let it go.

Also, Catholics are Christian.  If he's a practicing Catholic who's been confirmed in his faith, he's saved.

znd13

Obviously, what the his sister is doing is not right, but neither is he. He needs to forgive and let his sister live her own life. Pray for her, and just keep loving her. He needs to do what he can to let her know by loving her, that she is not doing right.

GunzNRoses213

I agree he needs to let it go and forgive her , I just dont know how to get him to even see that with how upset he is.

GunzNRoses213

He isnt really a practicing anything, He claims he reads his bible and feels closer to God but he goes to mass maybe 5 times a year ?

joe&cassie

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_fsisinlaw?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:eee4df76-3bfa-42fa-b624-a27fae33967ePost:0ddf137e-e489-44c2-926b-4f46f21ceed9">Re: FSisInLaw</a>:
[QUOTE]I hate to say it, but your fiance needs to let his very adult sister live her adult life.  They are her decisions - you don't have to agree with them, but she's the one living the life.  He has two choices - accept things the way they are or let it go.<strong> Also, Catholics are Christian.  If he's a practicing Catholic who's been confirmed in his faith, he's saved.</strong>
Posted by DramaGeek[/QUOTE]

Um this ^

I plan on moving in with my FI when I graduate but that doesnt mean I'm not saved. 

Ditto what previous posts have said.  She is an adult and can do what she wants.  I'm pretty much living the sister's experience.  No one agreed with our relationship because he is 31 and doesn't have a degree or a full time job.  However he is a disabled vet and in a wheelchair.  He just got a full time job and is going to school full time... they still aren't happy.  Your FI just needs to let it be.  His being upset will only further soldify it if she is anything like me. 

ochemjenn

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_fsisinlaw?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:eee4df76-3bfa-42fa-b624-a27fae33967ePost:87a32a16-defe-4131-b44a-1f5445066ce4">Re: FSisInLaw</a>:
[QUOTE]He isnt really a practicing anything, He claims he reads his bible and feels closer to God but he goes to mass maybe 5 times a year ?
Posted by GunzNRoses213[/QUOTE]

He's still saved.  Once someone is baptized Catholic, that person is Catholic for life.  I think it might be possible for someone to formally renounce the faith, but I'm not sure, and anyway, it doesn't sound like he's done that. 

I don't think it's terribly uncommon for Catholics or Protestants to go through times in their lives in which they aren't attending services/praying etc as often as maybe they should. 

DramaGeek

He may not be going to church, but if he's Catholic, he's saved. I haven't been to church in over a year, for various reasons, but add far add I know my salvation is still in tact :P

mrandmrsbrist

I think salvation is a VERY personal thing, not something you should be judging/deciding about someone else.

DeannaCW

I have to say you two sound very judgy. Not going to church regularly or being Catholic does not mean you aren't a believer. Catholics are Christians, end of story.  Sure, they may be making some bad decisions, but they are adults, and there is no reason for your FI to flip out over them.  Commenting on their prayer life or Bible reading? Irrelevant. Everyone practices faith differently, some people don't practice in the "daily prayer and bible reading" way at all. I know I don't, because that's not how I learn.  But if he reads, then how is his non-church-attendance the defining measurement of "not practicing"? Your comment about "he says he reads but..." was uncalled for.

As for you two not liking him and her attitude change you say she's had? You don't have to like him. But it's still her choice and she is still an adult. And I have to say, your comments about her being stuck up and having no time for family while leaving him to pick up the slack... that actually sounds like complaints I've heard from overly controlling families where one member broke off and finally decided to live their own life the way they saw fit instead of how their family told them to live it. The way your FI is flipping over his not agreeing with her choices also makes me think this. The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking she's tired of being told how to live and is deciding to finally live her own life. In which case? I say good for her for that.

GunzNRoses213

I kinda knew I'd get thrown under the bus ... I'm not gonna say another word because my belifefs about being saved differ from yours. Therefore it sounds bad.

Yes i'm dealing with my FI who has strong anger issues and is very upset with his sister..

I dont judge a single person at all ever... Their lifestyle does not reflect what it should not just thier attendence.. Mayhaps that should have been said, they drink often and thier social calender if often more important then scheduling with other people . She cant commit to anytime she says she will but she is out at the bar /socialite type things instead.

And i'm basically looking for a way to try go get him to step back from a Christian perspective .. Yes we all sin , duh ... It's not saying these things to judge but it's the truth and it's how he feels she is acting ....

And theres people who just posted on here and got mad that ive never even heard of ...

Shouldnt have given as much detail as I did obviously ... The End

DeannaCW

Your belief system says that he isn't saved, but given that she's marrying him, it seems pretty clear your FSIL's doesn't. Raging at her for following her own belief system (ie marrying him) is over the top. That's actually the reason I brought up that she might be running from excessive control. Your FI's reaction is way over the top, even for someone with anger management issues.

And you just said "it's the truth and its how he feels she has been acting". So it's his perception of her actions, not her actions specifically? This sentence puzzles me.

"Drinking often" also confuses me. If they are alcoholics, then yes you should be worried. But I'm not getting the impression that they are from what you've said, it sounds like they just like partying. Which plenty of other Christians I know also enjoy, and yes, with drinking involved.

But I agree with the PP who said that if this same track of rage and anger and continually trying to get her to consider that "he isn't saved" (which tbh, if I was her, would take as attempts to break them up) will only solidify her feelings on the subject, and your FI is on the verge of permanently damaging his relationship with her.

GunzNRoses213

Thats what I've been trying to say ... He already and so actually has she damaged the relationship... Not just him , her actions have not helped the situation and I dont actually think it pushed her further to do so she was plently wishywashy about it to begin with.

She made comments herself about the fact that her now FI is not saved previously... She flip floped between that statement herself, but moved in with him anyway. I think he is just jerkingher chain and doing what she wants / making an act of things so she dosnt leave.

She's an adult we know its her choice, but she one minute would agree with us and then the next minute move in with him [ this was actually before the blowup ] ..

They are not around for most family gatherings because their social calender seems more important ... He's well known in the town and if we would go out with them all they would talk about was the gossip of all these people the "hang out with " that they dont really like and yes alcohol is more the likly envolved quiete often . I wouldnt say alcholoic but it's borderline obsessive and cant seem to do anything that dosnt invovle it when in public ...

[ did i mention this is where yeugling beer is made and people have nothing better to do ]

My original intent for the post is to say that yes he flipped ... And I need to somehow calm him down and try to help him save the relationship ... He only has one sister ...

The whole thing really was boiling for years and this was kinda the last straw... No i'm not trying to sugarcoat his reaction but ...it's the way it is ...

She has been acting that way ... That's the truth and that's WHY he feel the way that he does. ...

DeannaCW

Wait, she doesn't believe he's saved, but is marrying him anyways? That's a whole nother dynamic I don't even know how to begin to discuss. Unless over the years her beliefs have changed to say that he is, I do not predict good things for that marriage...

But when someone is this determined to go down a destructive path, unfortunately there's not a whole lot you can do to stop them. Been there and done that, it's the hardest thing ever to watch.  At some point, just have to let them go and hope they come back. Because the more you try, the madder they get at you for trying to "control" them, even if you aren't.  I hate to say it, but if this has been going for years, the relationship may actually be essentially severed except in the "we're related and have to see each other" sense.  Sounds about at the point we were at with one person years ago, right before we gave up trying because it wasn't doing any good. We haven't seen her pretty much since then.

GunzNRoses213

Oh and it was shady the way she moved in because he had left town for a new job and she was moving it because the lease wasnt up yet [ ok i get that ] ... But then suddenly he left that job , came back and she didnt move back home. 

We dont agree with living together before married just a personal prefrence and her parents dont like it either so she kinda just did it on the sly /shady like and just didnt move back home and kinda lied about that whole situation and made it sound like she was looking for her own place ...

that's the type of stuff she does ... She tells us the family one thing and then does the opposite. Its not that we judge what shes doing ... It's the fac that she tries to walk around what she's doing /she seems partially ashamed because she knows her family disaproves...

So she isnt being honest... They arnt happy either way but lying yourway around stuff like that is not the way to go ...

GunzNRoses213

No she knows full well he is not saved. He has led her to believe that he is trying ... BUT in the meantime i dont think that her drinking and not being in church or trying to take him to church has been a great whitness... He tried to tell her parents he does feel closer to God due to her being in his life but we dont know what that means since my FMIL asked him if he knew what it meant to be saved, He said NO ... and they proceeded to tell him and share the gospel.....

She and my FI got into it about a year ago about other stuff and this fact came up and she said point blank " Do you really want me to leave him , cause I will " ... She knew what it was doing to the family to see her going down that path ...

I have tried talking to her [ not recently ] about datinga non believer ... I've been there ... Twice and i've got a kid to prove it ... I've tried telling her what it's like and that she deserves someone who is her equal spiritually speaking ... I got led along to believe my X's were going to take more part in church but they did not . I just see the same pattern

Yes I know i cant change her mind [ clearly not now ] but we felt like we were SO close with trying to get her to see otherwise ... And I know she felt guilty about everything going on etc...

Now suddenly she obviously dosnt and had moved in with him and we've seen less and less of her [ again before the fight]  .. Now it's just boiling still since Dec...

daffydillie

You guys are judging her. And I can see from your posts exactly why she isnt coming around much. She is probably very confused about her faith, with just reasons. If her FI is a Catholic, he is saved. Perhaps she needed time to sort out her definition of "saved." Up until several months ago, I had attended church in years but still practiced my faith. I know many people who attend church every week but have never accepted Jesus as their savior. Its a personal decision that I do not think any outside person can truly judge.

If I were her and being treated like a child by everyone and judged as harshly as she is being judged, I would probably be working during family events as well. She does not deserve screamed at. I also am unsure if you are at a position to judge if she is happy or not because if you kept having those conversations with me coupled with her brothers reactions, I dont think I would be very happy around you either. And just because they go to the bar, does not mean they are drinking or anything of the sorts. FI and I go several times a week, he does karoke contests, we play pool, and do dance competitions. I may have a beer every now and then but its rare.

Honestly, this relationship sounds broken almost beyond repair. Perhaps lunch without any talk of her living in sin, or the "unsaved" FI, and without being yelled at may help some but it will be difficult for her to trust her. Maybe some text messages about just how she is doing or something else nonconfrontational. Also, perhaps help your FI find some coping mechanisms for his anger, that is not healthy at all for his faith, relationships, or health.

DramaGeek

Before you can convince her of anything, you have too have her trust and respect, and it sounds like that is lacking. Perhaps if your fi looked at it that way it would help him be able to mend fences. I don't know that she actually needs to change but I do know that advice from someone I trust and respect Carries a lot more weight with me. He needs to rebuild that relationship and make sure its solid before he even tries to bring these things up again.

ravenray

People can make their own choices.  Your FSIL has made hers.  It's her life and she can live it.  You really need to stop judging her.  No wonder she has pulled away from the family, I would too!  So she parties, it sounds like she needs your friendship not your commendation. Your FI needs to realize he can't control his sister or her actions and he needs to get over it.  Is he in counseling for his anger issues?  I think you guys should work on loving her for who she is not what she does.   Work on building a relationship of respect and love, like DramaGeek said.

Honestly he sounds like bad news but sometimes people have to make their own mistakes.  It's so hard to watch but there is nothing you can do about it, except be there for her.

agape1cor813

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_fsisinlaw?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:eee4df76-3bfa-42fa-b624-a27fae33967ePost:0f6c647a-a3db-49b0-b9e9-d08bb2822724">Re: FSisInLaw</a>:
[QUOTE]People can make their own choices.  Your FSIL has made hers.  It's her life and she can live it.  You really need to stop judging her. 
Posted by ravenray[/QUOTE]

<div>This. Exactly.</div><div>
</div><div>If I had combative relationships with everyone I disagreed with, it would be a very lonely life. Especially family. I hope you don't plan on harping on everyone in your family whose opinions are different than yours. </div>

GunzNRoses213

We've tried talking to her she blows us off regardless of what the topic is....

I've tried to be the middle person and be nice to her and not say a word about what she's been doing for months , she still ignores me... It's not judging if it's the truth ..How is being concerned harping ?

yes my FI has anger issues... I admit this , know this and he's been working on it ..


I dont know how to help him get around the anger to calm down and learn to deal with her .. I"ve been trying to let it go myself but when she back out on plans she makes with me [concerning planning my wedding ] I get upset.. I dont voice this to her ... but this is what's going on

The main point of this post was to know if anyone knew a book or anything about anger...

I get she pused away ,but honestly it was not about what she was doing in her life.. We honeslty never came at her with that at all.. I've never said anyting like that to her the only thing i've given her is advice about dating a non-Christian...

Again some peoples view on who is saved and who isnt really is different ... And that's what's getting misinterpreted

If you dont have any advice for anger between siblings then just move along cause you missed the point