RANT - political/abortion-related.

AuntFlo

I've always been pro-choice, politically.  Personally, since I struggled with miscarriage and staying pregnant and eventually had a child, I definitely believe in the sanctity of life - BUT I am still pro-choice, because I don't feel that I have a right to tell  you what to do with your own  body.  I had a difficult pregnancy that caused some permanent damage to my body, and cost a lot more money than I could have every imagined, so I can also understand not wanting to go through a pregnancy.   Bottom line: I think it's the most personal of all personal choices and it's none of my business what choice you make.

That being said, I HATE with the fire of a thousand suns, the pro-lifers who picket with their graphic signage and are complete hypocrites when it comes to violence.   Yesterday afternoon, on our way to a birthday party, we drove by the early voting center and got stuck in a major traffic jam.  This place was a mad house.  THere were too many people there, too many cars.  Cops were doing their best to direct traffic.  And political signs EVERYWHERE.   AND pro-lifers.   With their hateful, outrageous, UNTRUTHFUL signs with pictures of dead, full-term babies. 
I  am already having a bad weekend, and now I'm stuck in traffic, forced to look at these grotesque images with my CHILD in the backseat.   My very observant child with new glasses - I know she can see these images.  DH and I are trying to keep cool, hoping she doesn't see or ask about it.  Not-quite-four is not the age we wish to explain such things to our child.  Of course, she notices one poster, a picture of a baby without a head.  (I'm not real sure what the point of that one was...)   Anyway, she just comments "that silly baby doesn't have a head" all matter of fact like.   Whew.  We just said "yeah, you're right.  Weird" and moved on.   Fortunately the traffic moved enough at that point that we were past this particular set of signs.
But my anger level was at like 25 out of 10.   If I had something to throw, I would have thrown something at these people or done something else that would surely get me arrested. 
To cap it off, they also had a big poster that said "God hates the hands that take innocent lives" which made me even more angry (if that was possible) because I'm sure these are the same type of people that are all "support the troops" "yay america - kill those terrorists!""blah, blah, blah" "love the soldiers", etc, etc.   HELLO!  There are innocent lives being taken there too!!!
Anyway, I'm angry.  I don't know what to do about my rage, because those people and signs were allowed to be there.  I just can't stand the lies and the hypocrisy and the images that children should have to be subjected to.   I'm going all mama bear right now.
Maybe I just needed to get this off my chest.  

**O-Face**

I put THOSE people in with the Westboro Baptist types.  Justify your disgusting behavior because GOD said you can.  Mmm...kay?

VarunaTT

Oh, those images they use.  "This is your 8 week old baby".  No, that's like a 6 month old baby, but thanks for perpetuating miseducation.  

I don't know one pro-choice person who is YAY ABORTION IS AWESOME.  I'm tired of being painted that way, which is why I really enjoy calling pro-lifers "forced birthers" now.  It's not nice, but turnaround feels nice sometimes.

Speaking of war, can I just say I wish the election wasn't so close?  B/c I'd like to vote for someone AGAINST Guantanamo and against the damn drones.  In all honesty, I'm ready to bring the troops home, concentrate on the energy/climate crisis and let the rest of the world take care of themselves for awhile.

danielleper03

I agree. I have never had children, nor have I ever been pregnant. I would not personally have an abortion. I just don't think I could live with myself. but that's a personal thing. I don't think anybody elses right to choose should be taken from them.

Varuna: I agree with what you say. Bring em home and let everyone else handle themselves.

**O-Face**

Varuna, Gary Johnson 

Of course I'm mostly kidding, but kind of serious too.

6fsn

I couldn't agree more AF.  I was just thinking this morning who in a dream world there wouldn't be abortion. Nobody would become pregnant due to horrific circumstances outside their control.  Nobody would be pregnant because they lacked the resources (financial, education, whatever) to prevent it.  Every pregnancy would be healthy to mom.  Every fetus would be viable. 

Until we have the utopia women need the option without threat of violence- physical or emotional. 

AuntFlo

6 - not that you would, but don't drive on Morse Rd by Karl Rd today or tomorrow.  I wish someone had warned us.

dharmabunny

This is reminding me of one of my rabid promittens/Ryan reborn 4x over friends...it may be worth a pop off but probably for FB...the disconnect really fundamentally bothers me.

tawillers

I completely agree, AF.

Peledreamsofrain

I've always been deeply deeply confused about their conflicting stances. If women are forced to have every child no matter what, but you undermine social programs for the resulting orphans and underprivilaged adults most grow into.... Maybe they want child armies or something?

PMeg819

Preach it.

I'm sick and tired of the lies about abortion. Pro-choicers aren't evil and we'd love to see abortion as a last resort used very rarely. Getting there doesn't mean restricting women's access to birth control, spreading misinformation, or eliminating/reducing the funding for programs that help women who choose to have a baby instead of abortion. The pro-life argument is strangely in favor of "life" except only the life of the fetus, until it's born. After that- all bets are off. I also find it strange that many pro-lifers I know are in favor of the death penalty.

thejucheidea

Everything in this thread pleases me.

VarunaTT

Pele, there is a theory that the reason we want poor women having babies is b/c those babies have not other option beyond life as they know it or the military.  Basically, save the rich kids for deferment, poor kids go to war.

Mere words cannot express the magnitude of anger that this makes me feel it I were to ever meet anyone who honestly believed that and said it to me.  I don't think of myself as a violent person, but after I was done verbally thrashing them, they might feel like I had beat them up.

DG1

Kuus posted an interesting link on FB about it recently, that pro-lifers should really be pro-birth control instead of anti-abortion, if their goal really is fewer abortions. 

Let me dig it up... 

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2012/10/how-i-lost-faith-in-the-pro-life-movement.html

MizBiscuit

They just opened a Planned Parenthood Clinic on our square and every day since there have been protesters. I will give it up to our local cops though who sited them for a disturbing the peace charge when they had those horrible and graphic picture signs (I was one who called them in on it with a hysterical autistic sister who saw the bloody babies and didnt understand). Now all they are allowed to have are non-graphic pictures or words on their signs.

I get that they feel a certain way but it irritates me that to many of them it's not a matter of opinion, pro-life or pro-choice, it is a matter of fact that pro-life is right and you are an evil being for thinking otherwise and need to be subjected to either a sermon telling you this or have hate filled words thrown at you.

VarunaTT

DG, she nabbed that up from here:  http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_wedding-woes_a-good-discussion-on-reddit

I also like the point in that article about why they aren't holding 5Ks for miscarriages and spontaneous abortions from the female body, if they're so concerned about lives lost, since that is a far higher % and number than abortions.

zsazsa-stl

I still consider myself pro-life, but I think outlawing abortion is pointless.  I wish people would put all of that money and effort that they spend on "vote pro-life" campaigns into actually preventing abortions by giving women real options like birth control (and education) that prevents conception.  Give them access to health care for a healthy pregnancy and healthy children post-birth  Provide job training to support those children.  AND, for Pete's sake, de-stigmatize adoption!



 

VarunaTT

Here, here, zsa.  Or make more monies available to help people who want to adopt, since yearly home studies, licensing, classes, etc. can start to get mighty expensive from the state and private adoptions are even worse.

DG1

I am really surprised there aren't more charities dedicated to people wanting to adopt, to help defray the costs for people. Kids are expensive, yo, and if you are dropping upwards of $50k just to *get* the kid, that's just a dealbreaker for a lot of people.

I always thought that was what Angelina Jolie should do instead of trying to adopt every orphan in the world herself. 

Does the Dave Thomas foundation do that?

baconsmom

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_wedding-woes_rant-politicalabortion-related?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:47Discussion:157a0f1e-375a-44b1-9fa2-30d6adf5a8c4Post:1ff9d0ed-721b-445e-8f71-b0391cee3d4f">Re: RANT - political/abortion-related.</a>:
[QUOTE]Varuna, Gary Johnson  ;) Of course I'm mostly kidding, but kind of serious too.
Posted by **O-Face**[/QUOTE]
:D<div>
</div><div>On topic: We got a sermon yesterday about how if we vote pro-choice, we'll have to explain ourselves to God and all Catholics are pro-life and then went on and fcking on about babies. </div><div>
</div><div>Hey, dumbshit. Pro-life should mean pro-LIFE. All lives. All those kids getting drone-bombed in Afghanistan. All the women who might die from pregnancy. All the unwanted kids who are born simply because we're supposed to bear them. All the people on death row. All the people starving in the streets. </div><div>
</div><div>I have no problem explaining myself to God. You, on the other hand, might find it a bit more uncomfortable to justify your misogyny and disregard for lives already in the world. </div><div>
</div><div>My friends and I were all angry after that. Just spitting fcking mad. And people APPLAUDED that sermon. Clapped in the middle of Mass. Ass holes. </div>

AuntFlo

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_wedding-woes_rant-politicalabortion-related?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:47Discussion:157a0f1e-375a-44b1-9fa2-30d6adf5a8c4Post:4a88b149-eac2-4b73-82ce-5645fc3657b6">Re: RANT - political/abortion-related.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: RANT - political/abortion-related. : :D On topic: We got a sermon yesterday about how if we vote pro-choice, we'll have to explain ourselves to God and all Catholics are pro-life and then went on and fcking on about babies.  Hey, dumbshit. Pro-life should mean pro-LIFE. All lives. All those kids getting drone-bombed in Afghanistan. All the women who might die from pregnancy. All the unwanted kids who are born simply because we're supposed to bear them. All the people on death row. All the people starving in the streets.  I have no problem explaining myself to God. You, on the other hand, might find it a bit more uncomfortable to justify your misogyny and disregard for lives already in the world.  My friends and I were all angry after that. <strong>Just spitting fcking mad.</strong> And people APPLAUDED that sermon. Clapped in the middle of Mass. Ass holes. 
Posted by baconsmom[/QUOTE]

Good description.  That's exactly the kind of mad I was.  Are you a writer, by chance?

**O-Face**

Stupidity never ceases to amaze me BM.  NEVER.  The justification and picking and choosing what applies is just cray cray. 

6fsn

DG- Dave Thomas Foundation does help with adoption of foster kids.  I agree with everything else you said.

Bmom- your priest sucks,  Our sermon was quite good and nothing about abortion.  I was impressed the intentions just included a line about voters being informed and educated and getting to the polls to vote as they saw fit. 

baconsmom

6 - it was the ARCHBISHOP. There are rumors he's being groomed for the papacy. 

Our usual priests range from boring (Msgr.) to really good (Fathers Michael and Kleiner.). But our archbishops blow. 

6fsn

Dang Bmom.  I've enjoyed all of ours.  We get former and current bishops monsignors and several priests and deacons.  Some are better than others, but so far I've enjoyed all of them.  This parish just amazes me though.  The last one had 300ish attend the 3 weekend Masses.  This Church has 6 Masses with highway patrol directing traffic.  Old parish took almost a year to raise funds to replace a stained glass window.  This one raised over $1mil for a parking lot in under 4 months.  Crazycakes.

2012FutureMrsB

I grew up as a conservative Christian and still am, for the most part, but as I've grown up and seen other parts of the world and met new people with new ideas, I've definitely become less conservative. I remember as a kid that my dad drug our whole family to a pro-life rally and people were holding signs and whatnot. I thought, "yeah, this is good, life is a good choice, so I'm with this, but I still don't understand why we're here and why we're trying to make others' feel bad for their choice, which is just that - THEIR choice."

So even as a kid, I questioned that. Now as an adult, the bottom line is I consider myself more on the pro-choice side, but I would only support abortion in rare cases, such as rape, incest, or if the mother's own health is at risk. But even then, if someone else chooses to have an abortion simply because they don't want the baby, it's still THEIR choice to make. I don't have to agree with it, but I don't get a say in what they do with the reproductive system!

So yes, I'm pro-choice, but that doesn't mean I think abortion should be taken lightly. And I've learned that most pro-choicers would agree with that. It should be said, though, that I still think abortion should be acknowledged as "stopping a life from growing" (I'm not sure that I'd call it murder necessarily, but it definitely prevents a fetus from living). So like PP's have said, it bothers me too when I see pro-life mobs of people with their signs and their pictures. Yes, abortion is not pretty, I don't usually agree with it, but it's NOT your right to tell others what to do with their bodies, so go spend your time actually HELPING these people raise their children or whatnot, rather than wasting your time trying to make their choices for them.