I cannot get past this -- Thoughts?

VarunaTT

The UN has passed a resolution condemning the practice of female genital mutilation.  Yay, finally.  One of my FB groups posted about it.

There is an argument now under it re: male circumcision.  

I get that there are passionate feelings on both sides re: male circumcision.

But to compare it to female genital mutilation?  Seriously?  Is blowing my mind.  

Thoughts?

ReturnOfKuus

Well.

I do see the comparison.  It's not nearly as severe, and it doesn't exist in anywhere near the same cultural climate and therefore doesn't have the same violent significance, but I am completely on board with saying that we shouldn't be lopping off bits of the genitals of people other than freely consenting adults.

baconsmom

I'm with Kuus. Not as severe, not the same social connotations, but it's still mutilating babies for no reason. 

**O-Face**

Okay, I'm pretty sure female mutilation would be akin to cutting off almost the entire penis, yes?

Am I completely wrong?

ReturnOfKuus

No, you are right, which is why we said not as severe.

VarunaTT

It depends on the culture it's occuring in as to how much of the entire vagina is taken.

But the clitoris, and therefore the main source of a woman's sexual pleasure, is gone not matter what happens.

Then it's not only the original surgery.

First off there's the risk of infection for every day of a woman's life when this is done, since the self-cleaning mechanism of the vagina is gone.

Secondly, depending on which culture you're in, after childbirth the labia are sewn back together, starting the entire damn process all over again.  This is a lifelong devastating thing to be done to a woman.

I'm sorry, no matter how you feel about foreskin removal, and how small the percentage of death/infection/orgasm prevention exists with circumcision, it's absolutely infinitesimal compared to female genital mutilation.  And if done right, he still gets to have orgasms.

VarunaTT

You know what?  This is seriously pissing me off the more I think about it.  This is like, well yeah, we know that they damage your vagina to a point that it carries consequences for your entire life, but WHAT ABOUT THE PENIUS!!!!????

I don't care that they're concerned about that issue. But it's not the same issue as female genital mutilation.

ReturnOfKuus

I think both discussions need to happen, but I am unsurprised that in a culture where we don't do female genital mutilation anyway, the routine circumcision issue is discussed more.

VarunaTT

I do get that.

It's irritating me b/c it's under a UN discussion.  So, the circumcision people are wanting the UN to "step up their game" and stop the "mutilation of baby boys".  

These are not the same things to me.  I get why people are anti-circumcision. I just don't think it's even in the same realm of discussion, which is what these people are trying to argue.

ReturnOfKuus

Okay, that was not clear from your post.  This wasn't just a spinoff talk about cultural norms and other people's genitals - they're saying the UN should step in?

VarunaTT

Yes.  That now that the UN has passed their resolution condemning female genital mutilation, they should be doing the same thing re: male circumcision.

Samples:

Now they just need to step up and do the same for male circumcision

Then, why not condemn routine circumcision, as well?

and still so few speak against male genital mutilation

Religious mutilation should be abolished of any sort. Male circumcision, in the respect of religious practice is just as bad as female circumcision, it is unwillingly forced upon a child, or adult for no good reason.

Neither is worse than the other. And either done without consent of the victim is wrong. Stop playing the 'my unrequested medical procedure is worse than your unrequested medical procedure" game. And just accept that any unrequested or unneeded medical procedure is wrong.

so sexist to ignore the butchery of little boys against their will.

people saying female circumcision is worse are MISSING THE POINT. how would you like it if you woke up and i had cut your little toes off? Or extracted a few of your random teeth? Whether it was painful or not, whether you need them or not and whether they ruin your sex life or not is a DIFFERENT ISSUE. It is a complete violation to do this to someone against their will unless there is a clear medical necessity. Male circumcision is only really needed in exceptional cases, and usually the issue can be resolved with a minor incision to reduce tightness of foreskin without needing to remove it.

ReturnOfKuus

It reminds me of this article:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/copyranter/finally-rape-ads-that-put-the-onus-on-the-raper

and this comment to the men stropping about how the ads don't address men getting raped:

"Damn, some people--male and female--are literally unable to tolerate more than 30 seconds of not making men the center of everyone's sympathetic attention. Yes, folks, men get raped, and, VERY occasionally, the rapist is a woman, but you know what? Rape of women by men is a HUGE public health problem! Rape of men by men is a somewhat smaller problem. Rape of men or women by women is a TINY problem. Women, for whatever reason, don't need to be told not to rape. They mostly don't. You simply cannot say the same for men--not without lying through your teeth, anyway."

VarunaTT

I think that's is exactly what is driving me batty.  Like I said, I know people feel strongly re: circumcision.  But this just isn't the damn point!

ReturnOfKuus

In that case, I'm on your side completely.  I too am sick of people panicking when anyone dares to talk about something that isn't men or men-related.  It's like a real-life Bechdel test.

baconsmom

And again, I'm with Kuus. And you, V. Jesus.