Wedding Woes
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Have we discussed this?

http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2011/02/28/leaving_my_children

What do you think?  Not just what do you think of her and what happened, but what kinds of feelings does thing bring up in you, and why?
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Re: Have we discussed this?

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    loveshine1loveshine1 member
    5 Love Its First Anniversary First Comment
    edited December 2011
    I actually feel bad for her. And I don't really like her. But I give her credit for owning her feelings.

    However, deciding to have kids to please your partner is not a smart idea. I know of another couple that did this and it also failed miserably.
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    edited December 2011
    I think we men do this, it is socially acceptable. When women do it, it's OHMYGOD HOWHORRIBLE WHATABITCH!
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    TheDuckisTheDuckis member
    5 Love Its First Anniversary Name Dropper First Comment
    edited December 2011
    I don't think she left because of the children. I think she left because she married the first guy she fcked and when she finally got an opportunity to see the world she realized everything she'd missed.

    Honestly, I'm having a hard time seeing the forrest through the trees, because I think it's such a poorly written piece. It's like she wrote two halves of two different articles, then gave up and slapped the two pieces together. I'm not seeing the thread between her marriage not surviving a 6 month separation and her being a bad mother because she got divorced and gave up physical custody. And honestly, I'm much more interested in the first part.
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    edited December 2011
    I got stuck on the bit where he removed all excuses for her not to have kids anymore, by saying he would take care of them, etc. Um...what about the fact that SHE DOESN'T WANT KIDS?
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    ReturnOfKuusReturnOfKuus member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its First Comment Name Dropper
    edited December 2011
    Yeah.  You'd be amazed at how many people brush that off as not a legitimate excuse, whereas wanting kids requires nothing more than that.
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    edited December 2011
    Right. When you say to people, I want children. The response is, yes, how lovely. If you say you don't want children, you hear, "Oh, you will when you are older/meet the right man/married." "But children are the greatest gift/joy on earth." and my personal favorite, "You don't know what you are talking about."
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    TheDuckisTheDuckis member
    5 Love Its First Anniversary Name Dropper First Comment
    edited December 2011
    What bottles my mind is that anyone would want to have children with someone who doesn't want them. Did he really use the kindergartener's argument for getting a dog on having children? "I'll feed it and play with it and walk it and you won't even notice it's here" does not sound like a fun (or healthy) way to raise a kid. It's also extremely selfish.

    But again, if either one of them had tried to step out of their comfort zone before they mated for life at 17, he may have realized there are women in the world who want children, and she may have realized there are men in the world who don't.
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    VarunaTTVarunaTT member
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Love Its First Answer
    edited December 2011
    I think she's immature and shouldn't have been talked into a lifelong commitment she didn't want.  Great, she grew up later, but good job for making your kids have to have split homes.

    I DO know someone who married early, had kids early, and left them to go pursue her doctorate at the grad school she went to AND CAME BACK HOME.  B/c she got her doctorate to make THEIR lives, as they were, better.  Not "OMG I never wanted this life to begin with".  That's beyond dumb and irresponsible to me.

    And honestly, what this woman writes?  Is why I DON'T have children.  I adore my husband and if I won something like that, I'd want him with me to experience it together.  Kids do cost some things.  You need to be willing to give that cost to have kids.  If you're not aware or willing, well I don't have much sympathy.
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    dharmabunnydharmabunny member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its First Answer Name Dropper
    edited December 2011
    I'll put aside the having kids when you never wanted them argument.  That's been covered here.

    1) She seems kinda obtuse about what being a mom is.  Which isn't always June Cleavering her way through her kids' childhoods.

    2) Fine, she didn't want to be a mother but had kids anyway.  Fine, I can respect women that say they don't want kids (or even the ones that say they don't, then do a complete 180 later).  She's a mother to two children and she likes the kids enough.  Doesn't make you Hitler, doesn't make you Mom either.  Loving gestures alone without the real heart behind it doesn't automatically make you a mom, does it?  Own it, don't twist it into a new paradigm about what being a good mom is just to esteem her own narcissism.

    3) She's a narcissist.  She would not put the pen to paper if she wasn't.  I get the sense her kids are a distant second to her own needs and wants.

    3) There's not a single thing of what her kids really think of the situation.  It's all about what the author sees in terms of surface actions.  Wonder if she doesn't care or doesn't really want to know.
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    6fsn6fsn member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its Name Dropper First Comment
    edited December 2011
    I was thinking everything Duckis said.  I didn't think the things Dharma did, but as I was reading I was not my head thinking ayep.
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    baconsmombaconsmom member
    5 Love Its First Answer First Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited December 2011
    Rage. At her and her ridiculous insistence that her children are "fine" and "not traumatized". Bullshit. 

    I don't understand why she had kids in the first place. Not even a little bit. I saw your FB post about people telling you you'll change your mind, but damn, I don't know anyone who'd let that sway them (in fact, just about everyone I know operates on the opposite principle: tell me to do something, and I'll tell you to fck off. Tell me not to, I'll be first in line.). 

    I just think she's a selfish, horrible person. 
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    Butter CookieButter Cookie member
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    Like Duckis said it's poorly written. She doesn't seem to know her children, at least it isn't represented in this article. Rather than stating how as she's gotten to know herself she's become a better mother to her children because she no longer subconsciously resents them and feels she is getting to know them as people rather than the complicated relationship of loving your children but hating what they stand for.

    I feel sad for her, but I feel more sad for her children. They will forever know they were unwanted. Even if they're appreciated as people now that childhood feeling of not being wanted will never go away. Writing this article probably did her a huge disservice with them as well.

    The feelings it brings up in me? Well, I can understand that she's only now starting to realize her selfish needs, but I'm angry at her for bringing children into the world in the first place, and not just being honest with herself and her now-ex husband so that he might move on and find someone who wanted the same things as him. Perhaps they both would have grown up some had either of them had the balls to see the truth.

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    ReturnOfKuusReturnOfKuus member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its First Comment Name Dropper
    edited December 2011
    I do think she's a melodramatic and crappy writer, and I do think she's self-centered and narcissistic.  But to me, that seems less like an inherent personality trait and more like she was stunted by settling down so young and never outgrew that teenage mindset she had when she met her husband.

    Judgment of her aside, sometimes I don't think people realize how much pressure there is, still, for people to have children.  I for one have no interest in being a parent at all, and I know that about myself, and STILL I have myriad people telling me that I'll feel differently if I just bite the bullet and start having kids, and it'll be wonderful and fulfilling and the best thing that ever happened to me.  Now, I'm a stubborn sort of person who knows my own mind, always have been, even as a child.  But what if I weren't?  I can imagine feeling much like this woman if I were less mulish and more swayed by my family, friends, peers, and overwhelming cultural pressure.  I suspect that a lot of people who aren't difficult and stubborn by nature do end up being bulldozed into doing what everyone thinks they should do, and feeling trapped.  I just don't think most of them are able to get out, considering that the backlash from getting out is even worse than the pressure that got them there in the first place.
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    edited December 2011

    Though I've  merely skimmed the replies thusfar (guilty as charged), I don't find the article to be poorly written at all. I have an MA in English and have seen much, much worse as far as writing goes. Overall, I found the piece to be quite interesting, whether I align myself with her beliefs or not.

    Look at all the responses it evoked--rage, pity, confusion, sympathy. Whether we like what she has to say or not, what she has written ellicited a strong emotional charge from many of us. 

    I'm not a mother, though I've always felt that I do want children someday.  

    Whether she wanted the kids or not, she had them. And in the end (if we can assume she spends as much time with her kids as she says she does), it seems she's doing a pretty good job of accepting responsibility for her children, at least in the present.  Whether we like her or not, the fact that she's taking responsibility (and spending quality time with her children) is more than we can say about a good number of parents out there, whether they actively wanted to have kids or not.

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    TheDuckisTheDuckis member
    5 Love Its First Anniversary Name Dropper First Comment
    edited December 2011
    Well, I'm certainy glad you decided to stop by with your expertise, prettygirl, because without the opinion of someone with an MA in English I would have continued through my life thinking that good writing takes more than expressing an unpopular opinion to "evoke a response." Now I know that as long as what I write isn't the worst you've seen, it's good. The same way that stealing is good because it's not murder.


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    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_wedding-woes_discussed-this-2?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:47Discussion:f7a4c53e-671a-4c6f-afb5-0b725d42d280Post:fa337633-7dd2-4060-b8d0-1043f02a0a47">Re: Have we discussed this?</a>:
    [QUOTE]Well, I'm certainy glad you decided to stop by with your expertise, prettygirl, because without the opinion of someone with an MA in English I would have continued through my life thinking that good writing takes more than expressing an unpopular opinion to "evoke a response." Now I know that as long as what I write isn't the worst you've seen, it's good. The same way that stealing is good because it's not murder.
    Posted by TheDuckis[/QUOTE]

    I was merely stating my opinion and you are certainly entitled to yours. I felt the piece had its merits and I found it to be an interesting read.  My intent for posting was not to start drama with anyone.

     
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    baconsmombaconsmom member
    5 Love Its First Answer First Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited December 2011
    Wow, Prettygirl rolls over faster than France. What's life like without a spine? 
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    ReturnOfKuusReturnOfKuus member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its First Comment Name Dropper
    edited December 2011
    nononono!  We need the fresh blood!
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