Marriage equality on FB

lindsaynewbride10

There’s a lot of people on FB today sharing the marriage equality symbol because there must be some legal stuff going on with it right now. As a Catholic, I can’t say that I’m thrilled about the idea of gay marriage. However, I don’t think I can deny someone the basic civil liberties that I have since marrying my H. I guess my thoughts are, as long as the Catholic Church never changes their stance on gay marriage, that’s all I can ask for. I really hope I’m not offending anyone, although I probably am, but as a Catholic I just can’t bring myself to find a way to make it okay.  Your thoughts?

lalaith50

<span style="font-size:11px;line-height:14px;">[QUOTE]However, I don’t think I can deny someone the basic civil liberties that I have since marrying my H. </span>
Posted by lindsaynewbride10[/QUOTE]
This sentence shows you are already looking at it from the wrong perspective. No one is being "denied" any "basic civil liberties." They (homosexuals) are perfectly free to get married, <strong>just like you are,</strong> as long as it is not to a child, someone to whom they are related, or someone who is their same sex.

chelseamb11

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_marriage-equality-on-fb?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:04b9ede1-0640-4e63-aacf-c99e5bebdd9fPost:e92a1ffa-3019-44ed-9846-364bb6cc668a">Re: Marriage equality on FB</a>:
[QUOTE]This sentence shows you are already looking at it from the wrong perspective. No one is being "denied" any "basic civil liberties." They (homosexuals) are perfectly free to get married, just like you are,  as long as it is not to a child, someone to whom they are related, or someone who is their same sex.
Posted by lalaith50[/QUOTE]

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS SOOOOO MUCHHHHHH
This is why I cannot stand when people say that gay people don't have equal rights as homosexuals.  YES THEY DO.  It is (rightly) illegal to discriminate aginst them for anything.  They don't have to sit at the back of the bus.  They don't have to go to different schools.  Nothing.

OP, there is a thread about 10 threads below that I started a little over a week ago that had a ton of interesting points in it and was VERY civil.  You should check it out.  It talks about legislating morality.

Tami87

Caitriona87 shared this on facebook and I thought it was a great read about the church's stance on the issue so I'm going to repost it here.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/21/archbishop-cordileone-gay-marriage-catholic-church/2001085/

I particularly liked this part from the article...

"So there are really two different ideas of marriage being debated in our society right now, and they cannot coexist: Marriage is either a conjugal union of a man and a woman designed to unite husband and wife to each other and to any children who may come from their union, or it is a relationship for the mutual benefit of adults which the state recognizes and to which it grants certain benefits. Whoever is for one, is opposed to the other. ...

Those of us who favor preserving the traditional understanding of marriage do not do so because we want people who experience attraction to their same sex to suffer. We recognize and respect the equal human dignity of everyone. Everyone should be treated equally, but it is not discrimination to treat differently things that are different. Marriage really is unique for a reason."

lindsaynewbride10

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_marriage-equality-on-fb?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:04b9ede1-0640-4e63-aacf-c99e5bebdd9fPost:e92a1ffa-3019-44ed-9846-364bb6cc668a">Re: Marriage equality on FB</a>:
[QUOTE]This sentence shows you are already looking at it from the wrong perspective. No one is being "denied" any "basic civil liberties." They (homosexuals) are perfectly free to get married, just like you are,  as long as it is not to a child, someone to whom they are related, or someone who is their same sex.
Posted by lalaith50[/QUOTE]

I don't know maybe I phrased things wrong in my OP, but I agree with you.

Riss91

I don't think we need to re-hash this here, but the article Tami linked to above explains very kindly and fairly what the Catholic Church's position is.

I hope we can all respect each other as a country. I hope that regardless of what the govt does, we treat each other with kindness and charity and understand that what is a "victory" for some is very difficult for others to bear.

ohmrs2014

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_marriage-equality-on-fb?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:04b9ede1-0640-4e63-aacf-c99e5bebdd9fPost:e92a1ffa-3019-44ed-9846-364bb6cc668a">Re: Marriage equality on FB</a>:
[QUOTE]This sentence shows you are already looking at it from the wrong perspective. No one is being "denied" any "basic civil liberties." They (homosexuals) are perfectly free to get married, just like you are,  as long as it is not to a child, someone to whom they are related, or someone who is their same sex.
Posted by lalaith50[/QUOTE]

<div>Legally in most states the Gay and Lesbian community aren't allowed to marry.  While I am Catholic, I do think the community deserves the same rights when it comes to marriage as a homosexual couple, so long as the government can truly seperate Church from state and not force any religious outlets to marry them in a religious ceremony.  So yes they are being denied basic civil liberties by not being allowed to legally marry.  </div><div>
</div><div>The problem in today's politics is that the lines of Church and state are being blurred by politicians.</div>

lindsaynewbride10

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_marriage-equality-on-fb?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:04b9ede1-0640-4e63-aacf-c99e5bebdd9fPost:26033aa6-7091-40a8-80fa-6a61777e71c6">Re: Marriage equality on FB</a>:
[QUOTE]<strong>I don't think we need to re-hash this here</strong>, but the article Tami linked to above explains very kindly and fairly what the Catholic Church's position is. I hope we can all respect each other as a country. I hope that regardless of what the govt does, we treat each other with kindness and charity and understand that what is a "victory" for some is very difficult for others to bear.
Posted by Riss91[/QUOTE]

Ok, sorry, I didn't realize this has been discussed recently. You can close the conversation or whatever.

button6004

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_marriage-equality-on-fb?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:04b9ede1-0640-4e63-aacf-c99e5bebdd9fPost:26033aa6-7091-40a8-80fa-6a61777e71c6">Re: Marriage equality on FB</a>:
[QUOTE]I don't think we need to re-hash this here, but the article Tami linked to above explains very kindly and fairly what the Catholic Church's position is. I hope we can all respect each other as a country. I hope that regardless of what the govt does, we treat each other with kindness and charity and understand that <strong>what is a "victory" for some is very difficult for others to bear.
</strong>Posted by Riss91[/QUOTE]

I fail to understand how allowing people the civil right to be married would be "difficult for others to bear."  Please explain.

I guess I was raised as a bad Catholic because I was raised to believe in full equality (not separate but equal garbage) and respect for all people no matter what they believe or who they love.

calixtine

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_marriage-equality-on-fb?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:04b9ede1-0640-4e63-aacf-c99e5bebdd9fPost:e6627766-d922-4807-bbc2-4f23c2dc03a7">Re: Marriage equality on FB</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Marriage equality on FB : THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS SOOOOO MUCHHHHHH This is why I cannot stand when people say that gay people don't have equal rights as homosexuals.  YES THEY DO.  It is (rightly) illegal to discriminate aginst them for anything.  They don't have to sit at the back of the bus.  They don't have to go to different schools.  Nothing. OP, there is a thread about 10 threads below that I started a little over a week ago that had a ton of interesting points in it and was VERY civil.  You should check it out.  It talks about legislating morality.
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]


Ummm, I think the whole point is that the LBGT community is in fact being discriminated against.  They cannot get married, make medical decisions for an ill spouse, along with a whole host of other rights we take for granted.  So actually, yeah they are discriminated against.

Ali092011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_marriage-equality-on-fb?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:04b9ede1-0640-4e63-aacf-c99e5bebdd9fPost:e6627766-d922-4807-bbc2-4f23c2dc03a7">Re: Marriage equality on FB</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Marriage equality on FB : THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS SOOOOO MUCHHHHHH This is why I cannot stand when people say that gay people don't have equal rights as homosexuals.  YES THEY DO.  It is (rightly) illegal to discriminate aginst them for anything.  They don't have to sit at the back of the bus.  They don't have to go to different schools.  Nothing. OP, there is a thread about 10 threads below that I started a little over a week ago that had a ton of interesting points in it and was VERY civil.  You should check it out.  It talks about legislating morality.
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]



I'm not sure what you don't understand about the definition of discrimination. Are you cool with "separate but equal" clearly inferior schools for black people? Why not? No one is saying they can't have books and calculators! They just can't go to any school they want to!

Blueyed228

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_marriage-equality-on-fb?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:04b9ede1-0640-4e63-aacf-c99e5bebdd9fPost:e6627766-d922-4807-bbc2-4f23c2dc03a7">Re: Marriage equality on FB</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Marriage equality on FB : THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS SOOOOO MUCHHHHHH <strong><u>This is why I cannot stand when people say that gay people don't have equal rights as homosexuals.</u></strong>  YES THEY DO.  It is (rightly) illegal to discriminate aginst them for anything.  They don't have to sit at the back of the bus.  They don't have to go to different schools.  Nothing. OP, there is a thread about 10 threads below that I started a little over a week ago that had a ton of interesting points in it and was VERY civil.  You should check it out.  It talks about legislating morality.
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]

<div>Of course they do.  Since you know, gay people ARE HOMOSEXUALS.</div><div>
</div><div>Nice to see pregnancy has made you more of an ignorant bigot that we all had thought.</div><div>
</div><div>I really liked your post on IVF earlier too.</div>

Snippylynn

This is what happens when all the most overly religious people in Europe get shipped to a new continent. 

mkrupar

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_marriage-equality-on-fb?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:04b9ede1-0640-4e63-aacf-c99e5bebdd9fPost:e6627766-d922-4807-bbc2-4f23c2dc03a7">Re: Marriage equality on FB</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Marriage equality on FB : <strong>THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS SOOOOO MUCHHHHHH This is why I cannot stand when people say that gay people don't have equal rights as homosexuals.  YES THEY DO.  It is (rightly) illegal to discriminate aginst them for anything.  They don't have to sit at the back of the bus.  They don't have to go to different schools. </strong> Nothing. OP, there is a thread about 10 threads below that I started a little over a week ago that had a ton of interesting points in it and was VERY civil.  You should check it out.  It talks about legislating morality.
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]

Chels you never cease to amaze me with your lack of knowledge.

Ok, so because they don't have to go to different schools or sit at the back of the bus they're not discriminated against? 0_o Methinks you need to read the definition of discrimination up in a dictionary.

Two consenting adults want the same rights to marry/enter in to a partnership that two other consenting adults are allowed to do, yet they can't because they happen to both be male or both be female. That IS discrimination. Their civil liberties have been violated.

I'm admitedly not a practicing Catholic, and can understand how this topic conflicts with the teachings of the church, but the institution of marriage (the simple joining of two people in a partnership) has been around much longer than organized relgion, so I see no reason why on a federal/civil level they shouldn't be allowed the same rights.

Why is it the church doesn't want the government to interfere in their teachings (ie: requiring birth control), yet they seem to want to dictate how the government runs based on their doctrine? Ever heard of separation of church and state?

calixtine

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_marriage-equality-on-fb?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:04b9ede1-0640-4e63-aacf-c99e5bebdd9fPost:4c5b873f-3403-4403-b9fc-dbdd5b7eda76">Re: Marriage equality on FB</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Marriage equality on FB : Legally in most states the Gay and Lesbian community aren't allowed to marry.  While I am Catholic, I do think the community deserves the same rights when it comes to marriage as a homosexual couple, so long as the government can truly seperate Church from state and not force any religious outlets to marry them in a religious ceremony.  So yes they are being denied basic civil liberties by not being allowed to legally marry.   The problem in today's politics is that the lines of Church and state are being blurred by politicians.
Posted by 50ShadesofMe[/QUOTE]

I completely agree with this.  Church and state should be entirely separate and therefore giving gay people the right to marry would have nothing to do with the church.  And no one is interested in forcing the church to perform ceremonies that go against their teachings.

calixtine

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_marriage-equality-on-fb?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:04b9ede1-0640-4e63-aacf-c99e5bebdd9fPost:49e935ed-ae82-444f-9617-cc32e001d47b">Re: Marriage equality on FB</a>:
[QUOTE]This is what happens when all the most overly religious people in Europe get shipped to a new continent. 
Posted by Snippylynn[/QUOTE]

Word.

mkrupar

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_marriage-equality-on-fb?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:04b9ede1-0640-4e63-aacf-c99e5bebdd9fPost:a758320d-4f08-40c9-b1e8-00d520558d00">Re: Marriage equality on FB</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Marriage equality on FB : I completely agree with this.  Church and state should be entirely separate and therefore giving gay people the right to marry would have nothing to do with the church.  And no one is interested in forcing the church to perform ceremonies that go against their teachings.
Posted by calixtine[/QUOTE]

Ditto. I don't see anywhere where anyone's saying a Catholic priest MUST consent to marry two men in the church. This is on a federal/civil level, not a religious level. Get your religion out of my government.

agapecarrie

http://www.marriageuniqueforareason.org/faq/

ahhhitsshannyn

Lolz at "some legal stuff."

Riss, why would legalizing gay marriage be difficult to bear? If you don't feel comfortable with gay marriage... don't get gay married. No one is going to make you, I promise. And seriously Lalatih, gay people can get married, just not to each other. That makes perfect sense.

The bottom line is that the church believes what they want to believe, but there is no LEGAL reason that gays should not have equal rights as straight people. Which is to marry the person they actually WANT to marry.

Ali092011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_marriage-equality-on-fb?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:04b9ede1-0640-4e63-aacf-c99e5bebdd9fPost:dcdc9ea2-0122-4f67-806b-ff94d619e303">Re: Marriage equality on FB</a>:
[QUOTE]<a href="http://www.marriageuniqueforareason.org/faq/" rel="nofollow">http://www.marriageuniqueforareason.org/faq/</a>
Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]



Here's what I got from that:

"Marriage is between a man and a woman because it is. Because we said so. So there."

and

"We can't allow homosexuals to marry because then ::gasp:: we may have to give them other rights, too."

That website is absolutely one of the most bigoted and nonsensical things I've seen in a while.

ohmrs2014

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_marriage-equality-on-fb?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:04b9ede1-0640-4e63-aacf-c99e5bebdd9fPost:dcdc9ea2-0122-4f67-806b-ff94d619e303">Re: Marriage equality on FB</a>:
[QUOTE]<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.marriageuniqueforareason.org/faq/">http://www.marriageuniqueforareason.org/faq/</a>
Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]

<div>
</div><div>And yet this blurs the lines of separation between Church and state.  No one during this whole matter and "controversy" and debate has said that the Church needs to marry same sex couples.  It comes down to legality.  Everyone deserves the right to marry, to make legal decisions for their significant other.  The only reason why the Church is being brought into this is because of the right winger tea party members and ultra conservatives who have blurred the lines and forgot that this country was founded on the mere principle of separation of Church and State!!  And yes I am a Republican, but I also believe in basic human and civil rights and liberties.</div><div>
</div><div>Us, as women, do you think we would where we are now if we didn't fight for our basic civil liberties, such as the right to vote?  You once forget that women were once seen an inferior.</div>

button6004

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_marriage-equality-on-fb?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:04b9ede1-0640-4e63-aacf-c99e5bebdd9fPost:dcdc9ea2-0122-4f67-806b-ff94d619e303">Re: Marriage equality on FB</a>:
[QUOTE]<a href="http://www.marriageuniqueforareason.org/faq/" rel="nofollow">http://www.marriageuniqueforareason.org/faq/</a>
Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]

Does this mean you dont believe in the separation of church and state?

Blueyed228

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_marriage-equality-on-fb?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:04b9ede1-0640-4e63-aacf-c99e5bebdd9fPost:8a47e64a-42e5-4b34-a902-6d6c3f326f47">Re: Marriage equality on FB</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Marriage equality on FB : Here's what I got from that: "Marriage is between a man and a woman because it is. Because we said so. So there." and "We can't allow homosexuals to marry because then ::gasp:: we may have to give them other rights, too." That website is absolutely one of the most bigoted and nonsensical things I've seen in a while.
Posted by Ali092011[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>Dont forget this, lol</div><div>
</div><div><span style="color:#3c2314;font-family:Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif;font-size:medium;line-height:18px;background-color:#cfbd96;"> using technologies such as IVF means that conception does not take place within the loving embrace of husband and wife, but instead is a dehumanized act of production, a mere “putting together” of the parents’ genetic material. No child should be treated as a product. A child deserves to be an act of love, the fruit of his or her parents’ mutual, loving self-gift.</span>

</div><div>I wonder how they feel about babies being conceived on top of a dead deer carcass?</div>

shawna127

As was stated before there are two differing definitions of marriage.  Obviously a "catholic" board is going to think one definition is correct where as a secular group is probably going to think the other definition is correct.

How old are we?  Honestly, for the life of me I can't figure out why a bunch of secular women would come on to a catholic board and be appalled that there are catholic thoughts on here.

Snippylynn

You know what? I honestly don't give a phewy what we call it. If we renamed marriage to 'Legal Document Stating We Can Get Benefits and Rights' I'd be pleased. 

Churches can keep marriage if all they mean by it is your ability to pretend you are better than people who are different from you. 

*stupid TK FLUCKERY WITH NOT BEING ABLE TO SWEAR*

mkrupar

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_marriage-equality-on-fb?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:04b9ede1-0640-4e63-aacf-c99e5bebdd9fPost:de10454f-8451-4b55-bc75-296d631007db">Re: Marriage equality on FB</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Marriage equality on FB : Does this mean you dont believe in the separation of church and state?
Posted by button6004[/QUOTE]

I'm going with a big 'ole NO!

calixtine

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_marriage-equality-on-fb?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:04b9ede1-0640-4e63-aacf-c99e5bebdd9fPost:8a47e64a-42e5-4b34-a902-6d6c3f326f47">Re: Marriage equality on FB</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Marriage equality on FB : Here's what I got from that: "Marriage is between a man and a woman because it is. Because we said so. So there." and <strong>"We can't allow homosexuals to marry because then ::gasp:: we may have to give them other rights, too."</strong> That website is absolutely one of the most bigoted and nonsensical things I've seen in a while.
Posted by Ali092011[/QUOTE]

Here's a test for those who are opposed to gay marriage.  Replace the word homosexuals with women or black in the bolded sentence and tell me that the sentences don't become discriminatory.  Doesn't that show that the matter is one of equality and just as wrong as discriminating against women or minorities?

Blueyed228

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_marriage-equality-on-fb?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:04b9ede1-0640-4e63-aacf-c99e5bebdd9fPost:a4c01853-2568-4032-81a8-ada80810a49d">Re: Marriage equality on FB</a>:
[QUOTE]As was stated before there are two differing definitions of marriage.  Obviously a "catholic" board is going to think one definition is correct where as a secular group is probably going to think the other definition is correct. How old are we? <strong><u> Honestly, for the life of me I can't figure out why a bunch of secular women would come on to a catholic board and be appalled that there are catholic thoughts on here.</u></strong>
Posted by shawna127[/QUOTE]

<div>Would you be appalled if you went to the African American board and they were talking about how white people shouldnt have rights?</div><div>
</div><div>Or if you went to the Jewish Board and they were talking about how Muslims are dirty sinners who deserve not to have children, get married, or have any rights?</div><div>
</div><div>
</div>

professorscience

I have an idea: let's all yell at each other and be really inflammatory.  That'll get our points across.