Rite Issue with FMIL

DFWIndian

Hi Ladies,

I don't normally write on this board, but I stalk y'all all the time. I had kind of an issue the other day with my FMIL. I need to give some background so please excuse this. We are Catholic Indian (you know the whole St. Thomas came to Indian converted people, well this is us), we fall in two different Roman Catholic rites, Malabar and Malankara. I'm Malankara and FIs family is Malabar. It's similar, but the Malabar right has more of the Eastern traditions. Either way when I picture my wedding I always wanted the Malankara wedding ceremony and mass. Since it's long and as a compromise FI and I agreed to do Malankara Ceremony with normal Latin Mass.
I'm ok with this until I went over to the ILs house the other day and his mom keep "thinking" we were having Malabar Wedding Ceremony. After correcting her a few times (she had brain surgery so I assumed it was memory lapse) FI told me he didn't think it was her forgetting but wanting it in the other rite.
He told me he won't go againist his mother. I don't expect him to, but what do I do? I know the whole it's my wedding, but honestly does anyone really believe that?? How do I express it to him and his mother without making myself look like bridezilla or anything?
It may seem petty, but it really is important to me.

Calypso1977

i dont know much about the different rites so i cant help you there, although i would think the marriage would be valid in either rite, so its more a matter of preference.   bel might know more, she's byzantine and dealt with some rite issues or agape who just is extremely knowledgeable about all sorts of things catholic.

i'm a bit concerned that your FI is siding with his mother rather than you.  that would be an issue for me.  a wedding is about the bride and groom, and it shoudl be jointly decided by the two of them, no one else, how you get married.  his wishes are just as important as yours, but it seems you two came to a decision, and his mom doesnt like it, so he's going against what the two of you decided, and doing what mom wants.  not good.

agapecarrie

A friend of mine got married in malankara rite, then had the latin rite mass (cause you're technically not supposed to mix them, they did the marriage first, before beginning the mass). They had the patriarch of malankara rite there (The groom was plain old latin rite, so there wasn't really an issue).

ok, so that story wasn't helpful, but anyway...

This seems more of a personal thing, I don't think this is necessarily a catholic issue because they are indeed both valid.

I'm not very educated on different rites, however maybe these are things uou can think about:

-what rite will you raise your children? (I don't know if you have to choose one or the other) where will you primarily practice your faith?

-examine this more personal issue going on with the groom vs. mom thing. This maybe something that is a predictor of future behavior?

-my suggestion is to get away from "what I pictured my wedding" to be to what is, and what is best for now. (I realize this isn't in your case, but most wedding "pictures" that girls take on in their mind is what has been fed to them by tv and magazines).

Calypso1977

i *think*, at least in the case of byzantine/roman, children take the rite of the father. 

Theresa626

Wait a second.  First of all, your fiance should probably ask his mother what she wants and tell her what you want.  You might be overthinking this.

Second of all, what does HE want?  Honestly, if he was fine with what you wanted and only changed his mind because of his mother, I don't think that is a good reason.  This ceremony is about the two of you, not about your parents.  He should stand up to her and tell her that this is what you have decided upon as a couple.

If he really does want the other ceremony for his own personal reasons then is there a way to come to a compromise?  I'm not familiar with the ceremonies but perhaps you could incorporate elements of each ceremony into your mass?

clearheavens

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_rite-issue-fmil?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:09775b3b-2906-41ed-9566-fd86abcd562aPost:434bcb4d-52ea-4408-8ffa-fa2aa79d94d4">Re: Rite Issue with FMIL</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rite Issue with FMIL :  have you and your fiance discussed which rite you will raise children in?  Have you and your fiance discussed what he wants for celebrating the sacrament of marriage (not what his mother wants)?  Have you discussed the role that parents' opinions will play in your marriage, and how you will establish appropriate boundaries while still trying to honor them as parents?
Posted by GulfCoaster[/QUOTE]

<div>I agree.  Ask these questions, let us know how it goes!</div>

meltoine

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_rite-issue-fmil?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:09775b3b-2906-41ed-9566-fd86abcd562aPost:434bcb4d-52ea-4408-8ffa-fa2aa79d94d4">Re: Rite Issue with FMIL</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rite Issue with FMIL : Not necessarily --  it kind of depends on when the children were born, and the intention of the parents.  A Byzantine mother and Latin father, as of 1990 at least, can agree that their children will be baptized into a Byzantine rite church.  My friend is Ukrainian Catholic, her husband is Latin rite, and their children are Ukrainian. <a href="http://www.jimmyakin.org/2010/08/which-church-sui-iuris-do-you-enter-at-baptism.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.jimmyakin.org/2010/08/which-church-sui-iuris-do-you-enter-at-baptism.html</a>  has a decent explanation. 
Posted by GulfCoaster[/QUOTE]

<div>Current Canon Law states that the children will be enrolled in the rite of the father <em>unless</em> both the mother and father agree to enroll them in the mother's rite. </div><div>
</div><div>I believe it's Canon 29-1.</div>

DFWIndian

Like most we have a level of respect when it comes to our folks. So even though it's our wedding or such the parents dictate more then you'll know. I know he doesn't care which one we do. We've talked and if his mother gets anymore presistant then we will discuss it then. Since My Uncle is doing the wedding ceremony and one of their family friends is doing the Mass it was a good compromise I thought. His mom had cancer( 3times) and has only boys so they all treat her like she's china. I love that about them, but I just hope it's not something which will hinder us in the future. It will be discussed.

I'm of the youth leaders for my church so it was hard to think I was even leaving my church, but do to distance and language barrier we are going to be going to Latin mass three Sundays a month and Malankara one Sunday (when we have English Mass). This is our marriage compromise. As of now we haven't discussed fully which rite we will raise the kids in, but more then likely it will be Latin. Which is fine. They won't know much of our language either way.

I'll keep you posted I just hope it doesn't become a issue!

GulfCoaster

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_rite-issue-fmil?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:09775b3b-2906-41ed-9566-fd86abcd562aPost:d91824f7-c4dd-4389-8ce6-f0e2d95cf751">Re: Rite Issue with FMIL</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rite Issue with FMIL : Current Canon Law states that the children will be enrolled in the rite of the father unless  both the mother and father agree to enroll them in the mother's rite.  I believe it's Canon 29-1.
Posted by meltoine[/QUOTE]

Right -- if the parents agree, they can do that, I think.  My question to the OP was whether the two of them agree on what rite their future children will be enrolled in.  If the OP wanted to raise her children Malankara, but her husband didn't agree, that would be trouble, since the children would otherwise be enrolled in the father's rite.  It sounds like OP and her fiance have a compromise worked out, which is great. 

Good luck, OP!  It sounds like you and your fiance are on the same page... I hope that continues.  :)

bel138

Sorry, I was on vacay. This is going to be long and rambling.

So, like other said, I think your first and foremost problem is that your husband is siding with his mother instead of you. That warrants a big 'ole conversation. And you really need to decide before marriage about which rite you will be raising your children.

Now, being Byzantine, I'm more familiar with the Constantinople side of things, and actually am not very knowledgable about your particular rites. All I know is that you were evangelized by St. Thomas, kept doing your thing, then the Latins came and basically called dibs. Yes? So, with that being said, I need to know what happens in BOTH of your wedding ceremonies. Who marries you: do you marry EACHOTHER, or does the PRIEST marry you? This is a very big distinction and affects the answers to other questions. You guys are technically Eastern, but you keep talking about Latin mass, so I'm a bit confused.

You mentioned your uncle doing your wedding ceremony. I assume then, that he is a Malankara priest? He will only be allowed to celebrate a wedding in HIS rite. He would not be able to do a Malabar wedding ceremony unless he is bi-ritual or gets permission (dispensation) from the Malabar and Malankar heirarchs. http://www.intratext.com/IXT/ENG1199/_PN2.HTM

You mentioned that a family friend of your FI is doing the Latin mass. Does that mean he is a Latin rite priest? If you guys decide on a Malabar wedding not done by your uncle, the Latin family friend won't be able to do it because HE doesn't have the authority to marry you, whereas he would have the authority to preside over you marrying EACHOTHER (all hinging on whether your churches still use the Eastern/Orthodox wedding ceremony). So same thing again: dispensation.

If both your uncle and your friend ok your original idea, you may be able to keep that plan, but I really would check with someone higher up. I have never heard of a different rite of ceremony being performed within another rite mass. And where is this all taking place? Are other rite ceremonies even able to be performed in this church?

On to the man vs woman's rite. The wedding ceremony, according to the church, is assumed to take place in the rite of the groom. So, once again, if you would like to have a Malankara wedding (or a Latin one?): dispensation.
http://www.intratext.com/IXT/ENG1199/_PN3.HTM.

I know this is a lot. We're governed by a completely different set of canon laws. What I just typed is completely confusing and a lot hinges on the actual ceremonies. You also threw in some curveballs with the whole Latin mass thing. And I would figure all of this out: NOW! Because our priest thought he had all the time in the world to contact the patriarch, our dispensations didn't come through until the day before the wedding. I don't want that to happen to you.

agapecarrie

I believe that in all eastern rites, correct me if I'm wrong, that the priest marries the couple.

My friend got married in a malankara rite, first, by the patriarch, then the latin rite mass was done by the bishop

bel138

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_rite-issue-fmil?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:09775b3b-2906-41ed-9566-fd86abcd562aPost:59516d4f-43bb-4436-be8a-cd098590fb7c">Re: Rite Issue with FMIL</a>:
[QUOTE]I believe that in all eastern rites, correct me if I'm wrong, that the priest marries the couple. My friend got married in a malankara rite, first, by the patriarch, then the latin rite mass was done by the bishop
Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I figured so. But I was confused by the Latin mass thing. I had never heard of that before.