Marriage to a non catholic

prettyirishgirl

Ok so I am a practicing catholic but my FI was never baptized. He grew up on a ranch with a very small population and although his family is and was religious there was no church of Christian much less catholic denomination within over an hour of where they live when he was growing up. So I was wondering before I go dig deep into this with my priest if any of you knew the technicalities of it all. I know that I'd need permission from a bishop to have the ceremony. And it is my understanding that we can have mass as long as he doesn't receive communion. I was wondering though about anything else. does the ceremony count as the sacrament if both parties aren't baptized? is there some other big hoop (not including the classes and such similar things to get approval). Sorry if its a little vague. Everyone in my family has been catholic and married a catholic so they haven't really been of help with this situation, and I just wanted to try and have a little more information before I went to my priest or started bugging for information. Thanks in advance just for reading and hopefully for some information. experience and advice.

agapecarrie

A catholic can marry a non-baptized person with a dispensation from the Bishop--- the priest will take care of this with you. It will not be considered a sacrament because both people have to be baptized, it will be a natural marriage. The church allows for this.

Except for rare exceptions, a marriage to a non-baptized person means it will not be a mass, it will be a "liturgy of the word" only.

prettyirishgirl

thank you so much

zelis42

My FI isn't Catholic, either.  He was baptised Methodist, then his parents had him "saved' in the Baptist church, but as he currently isn't practicing any sort of Christian faith, we're going the un-baptised route.  There's a little extra paperwork involved because it needs approval from the diocese, but the basic pre-cana will be pretty much the same.

This will probably be what you can expect during your wedding:

http://catholicweddinghelp.com/topics/order-wedding-catholic-unbaptized.htm

I highly recommend the whole site as a read.  The diocese website for your area might also have information and resources for you on what to expect during the process.

agapecarrie

You can't go the unbaptized route unless he wasn't baptized. Its impossible to undo a baptism. If all you mean is that you are not having a mass, well, thats recommended for any mixed marriage.

If he was baptized, then your marriage will indeed be a sacrament.

Resa77

PrettyIrish-- another thing to be prepared for is that the priest will likely confirm with your FI that he is willing to raise your kids Catholic.  I have friends where one is Catholic and the other is Jewish.  The bride (jewish) had to sign something saying she'd allow him to raise the kids Catholic.  All priests are different in how they approach things, but you may want to approach the subject with FI before meeting with the priest, just so he's not caught off guard if he has to sign something!

zelis42

Agape: The priest himself told us that he's having us go the unbaptised route, even after I gave him a copy of FI's baptism certificate.  Since he knows more about it than I do, I'm not arguing.

ootmother2

The most recent wedding I attended with Jewish groom and a Catholic Bride, the groom had to agree "not to interfere in the Catholic religious education of future children", not that he swore to raise the children Catholic.

This is the more recent interpretation of the rule

mica178

Zelis -- did your FI denounce all Christian churches and Jesus?  I think that's the only way he can effectively de-baptize himself.  Otherwise, even if he isn't quite a practicing Christian, he's still a Christian, and you should be eligible for the sacrament.

zelis42

He no longer considers himself Christian.  That's really the only way I can phrase it, since it's rather complicated.

As far as the sacrament thing goes: It's honestly not a huge deal to me.  God knows my level of commitement is the same as Catholics who are awarded the sacrament.  So when it all comes down to it, does a bishop with a stamp really matter?

prettyirishgirl

Yeah thanks for the tip about the kids. I knew that would be a topic and we have talked about it a little. The kid part he has already agreed to because I knew that regardless of him being baptized or not that would probably come up because he wasn't practicing anything for such a long time or ever. He agreed to that and I also knew we had to get a Bishops approval which isn't a big deal as far as getting it done. We just didn't know the technicalities of what we were actually allowed to have. You guys have been very helpful thank you so much. Fi and I have been talking about what he wants to do for about a month now. I told him all I knew about it as soon as I could so that he could decide if he wanted to get confirmed, stay as he was, etc. We knew we would need time because he deploys a lot and to be able to get confirmed or even go to the marriage classes we already know we are going to have to do some major arranging. I also didn't want him to feeled pressured to make a decision, because like zelis said It means alot to me to be married in a church, but I don't want him to become a catholic just so I can have it be a sacriment or have a mass, I'd feel horrible if he did it for the wrong reasons.

agapecarrie

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_marriage-non-catholic-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:15b07e56-4b3d-4866-acab-86a55e1b3d0bPost:a99f9d57-013c-4ab8-a42a-bf60f5a0d0a0">Re: Marriage to a non catholic</a>:
[QUOTE]He no longer considers himself Christian.  That's really the only way I can phrase it, since it's rather complicated. As far as the sacrament thing goes: It's honestly not a huge deal to me.  God knows my level of commitement is the same as Catholics who are awarded the sacrament.  So when it all comes down to it, does a bishop with a stamp really matter?
Posted by zelis42[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure what you mean by a Bishop with a stamp...but if you get married through the church, and he has been baptized (whether he renounces Christianity or not...doesn't matter because a baptism is a permanent change to the soul) ,it will be a sacrament. This does matter because graces come from the sacrament.

Editing to add: just saw your response...that's bizarre that he calls it that, however, I'm taking a guess that he's doing the approach for dispensation rather than permission.. It's a bigger deal to get a dispensation...fear of effect on the Catholic's faith.

zelis42

The AOD has a crimper seal to mark the certificates when one receives a sacrament.  That was the "Bishop with a stamp" I was talking about.  Sorry - it had been a long day.

The dispensation thing makes sense.  The only things FI knows about Catholicism are the things I've told him (I've joked about getting him a copy of Catholicism for Dummies for Christmas), and he told this priest this.  It's entirely plausible the priest used different phrasing so he wouldn't need to explain himself every five words or so.

tammythetiger

PrettyIrishGirl - in response to this, "And it is my understanding that we can have mass as long as he doesn't receive communion." 

I am marrying a non-baptized man and we are not able to have a mass with the communion for our ceremony.  So there won't be communion for us nor anyone including the Catholics in attendance.  You may need to double check on this with your church because each church may handle it a little different.  

I was disappointed to learn about this but it's what it is.  Attending a full mass and taking communion is an important step of my preparation for my wedding day/marriage so I have found a compromise - I am planning to go to an early morning mass the day of my wedding day and just take tme for myself, God, and mentally prepare myself for the day.

Also, our church is handing the approval with the bishop so that part of the process has been easy.  It may not be as complicated for you as it sounds.

prettyirishgirl

thanks tammy but sadly our church can not handle it for us. We are having the ceremony at a church that doesn't have an of its own clergy. It has been absorbed into another parish as far as the records and such go but is still owned and dictated my the sisters that live there and commissioned it. So it is up to us to find our own officiant and file our necessary paperwork and complete all necessary steps through the officiant or on our own. So the church itself wont be doing anything but allowing us the space for our ceremony. It isnt that we are worried about it being complicated either, It is just that the FI is trying to decide if he wants to be confirmed along with already agreeing to raise any children catholic. I didn't want him to make that choice for any reason other then the right one, but at the same time I wanted him to be fully aware of the ramifications of his choice. Because our church will not give us an officiant it is up to use to figure out what our options are, and my misunderstanding about if we could have mass or not was the entire point in me posting this question. What I posted was my base understanding with no research and just what I remember from goodness knows where. I doubt it will be any different for me or any other then what doctorate etc dictates and I wouldn't want it to be, I merely want FI and I to make an informed choice so that if we continue on the un-baptized route we know it wont be considered a sacrament and if he chooses to convert he does so with full disclosure. And not based off of misinformation. This is merely our first step in trying to make an informed decision.

Personally I would love to have mass, if it was an option. but I could live without that. I only care if it is a sacrament. even that I could live without if FI was really against converting, but I wanted to know what I was giving up before hand so if i have to I can come to terms with whatever mutual choice we make as a couple.

monkeysip

@ Pretty irish girl

Does your FI feel more strongly about another christian denomination?  Does he want to start attending a baptist, lutheran, non-denominational etc. church eventually?  If so, he could get baptized into a faith he feels closer to, and your marriage would be sacramental.  Or does he just not particularly want to join any church?  I agree that he should make this decision from his heart, not just what may be convenient for your marriage.  But I was just throwing out the idea that he could get baptized in a protestant church if that's what he wants to do.  It just depends on what denomination, if any, he plans on following.

Good luck with the plans!

irisheyezfsu

I am catholic and my FI is Jewish, our priest handled all the dispensation process for us.  FI didn't have to promise anything about raising kids a certain way. At the first meeting I signed a paper along with my information that to my best ability I wold raise the kids Catholic.  Our  good irish catholic priest, who studied hebrew in seminary, actually supported and encouraged our future children experiencing both our faiths. 

Catholicism history lies in Judiasm and there are a lot of simular traditions between the two as a result.

We are also having a jewish lay person give a blessing at the ceremony. Our church said as long as the priest said the vows to make it official, we were good.

prettyirishgirl

monkeysip

he doesnt feel more attached to one then the other that we have discussed. He has talked - before the engagement- about converting to catholicism. He said today that if he feels a connection to any of them it is probably catholic since thats what his family is/was before there was no church near them. That made sense to me. Thanks for the advice though it is a good suggestion

monkeysip

Also--one last thing--if your FI were to decide later (after the marriage) that he wanted to convert to Catholicism, your marriage would later become sacramental.  Obviously, your marriage is valid either way, I'm just adding that information.

prettyirishgirl

thanks monkeysip that is interesting that it works like that - I mean now that you mention it it makes perfect sense and It also my be very helpful in our case. Its a little hard to fulfill all the classes when your deployed which is what we are basically looking at until our wedding.

corency

Hi guys. I was interested in this forum because my fi is Christian and I'm catholic. We both want a church wedding but he doesn't want to be baptized catholic. I would prefer to have the wedding in a catholic church but his mom is very opposed to that because she converted from catholic to Christian. From what you guys are saying, my fi and I can get married in the catholic church without him having to convert to being catholic, right? We just would not be able to receive communion and I would have to promise to try to raise the kids catholic? I have asked my fi if he was baptized in the Christian faith and he said he received something like it when he was smaller. It was more of the congregation making a promise to help him in his worship of God, but he himself has not agreed to be baptized. There is still something I'm not quite understanding, If he was baptized in a Christian faith but not in the Catholic church, can we still not receive communion during the ceremony and would we still need dispensation from the bishop even though he is of the Christian faith? Both me and my fi believe in God, we just worship differently. We have been talking about the church ceremony for quite a while now and this forum has really reassured me that we can still get married in a Catholic church even though he is not catholic. We still have 20 months to go before our wedding but I would like to get this sorted out with as much time as possible so Thayer can see what our options are. Thanks so much for all this info!

corency

Thayer = that we Thanks again!

mica178

corency -- yes, you two can marry in the Catholic church even if one is not baptised Catholic.  You will need to apply for a dispensation if he is not Catholic.  Whether or not you are permitted to have a nuptial mass will depend on your priest, parish and circumstances (a lot depends on whether or not your diocese considers your FI baptized).

Good luck with your wedding planning!

doctabroccoli

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_marriage-non-catholic-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:15b07e56-4b3d-4866-acab-86a55e1b3d0bPost:60de99fd-b761-49cb-aefd-a30e23aecca1">Re: Marriage to a non catholic</a>:
[QUOTE]corency -- yes, you two can marry in the Catholic church even if one is not baptised Catholic.  You will need to apply for a dispensation if he is not Catholic.  Whether or not you are permitted to have a nuptial mass will depend on your priest, parish and circumstances (a lot depends on whether or not your diocese considers your FI baptized). Good luck with your wedding planning!
Posted by mica178[/QUOTE]

P.S. - The priest that marries you applies for the dispensation. That's not something you have to worry about yourself :).