sticky situation

tmeyer621

FI's family is Catholic. However, some of the family members cannot take communion. Parents are divorced and remarried without an annulment, sister wasn't married in the church nor received permission to marry outside the church, and brother was never confirmed. Obviously, our priest knows all this as we talked extensively about our families in our marriage prep. What  if they try to take communion at our wedding? Will the priest deny them communion?

Riss91

This is something that the priest needs to be concerned with. You can discuss your concerns directly with him, but ultimately he is the one that needs to be careful. I would just speak to him about it. If he knew that they were not in a state of grace, he could deny them communion.

Please let us know what your priests says, as I'm curious as to how he would handle this.

ElisabethJoanne

My Priest gave my unbaptized sister Communion at the Midnight Mass. He knows she's not baptized, but Priests can forget when faced with bunches of visitors, or when it's been several months since the issue has come up; or they assume the situation has changed. It's been several months since my sister visited my parish; usually she's away at school; in my jurisdiction, she could have become eligible to receive Communion in the intervening months. And maybe I should have stopped my sister in that split-second between my realizing her hands were out, rather than crossed, and Father giving her the host, but ultimately it's on her (She knows the canons.) and the Priest.

Chances are, your Priest will do like my Priest, for the reasons I stated, but there's things that didn't happen at Christmas that can happen at your wedding. You can print something about who is eligible to receive in the program. [Please have programs. Even Catholics sometimes get liturgically lost at a nuptial Mass.] You can ask him to say something.

It's tricky, but consider discussing in depth what he says. I once attended a solemn high nuptial mass in the extraordinary form, and the Priest made an announcement explaining the procedure for receiving in that parish (on the tongue) and who could receive. I discussed the announcement with several devout Roman Catholic friends the next day, and some were offended. They thought the phrasing discouraged worship and participation, so far as non-communicants are able, in the Mass.

As someone who can't receive communion in the Roman Catholic Church, but who often finds herself at Roman Catholic Masses, I find the line in many of today's missals to be best. Something about how "Only Roman Catholics in a state of grace are permitted to receive communion in the Roman Catholic Church. [details about obscure jurisdictions] All others are encouraged to pray and worship with us without receiving the Sacrament."

agapecarrie

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_sticky-situation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:1aa84c7e-abc8-4159-9264-2920601b77ffPost:fd13bcc5-7b42-4eef-9d68-dd64fe3157a5">Re: sticky situation</a>:
[QUOTE]As someone who can't receive communion in the Roman Catholic Church, but who often finds herself at Roman Catholic Masses, I find the line in many of today's missals to be best. Something about how "Only Roman Catholics in a state of grace are permitted to receive communion in the Roman Catholic Church. [details about obscure jurisdictions] All others are encouraged to pray and worship with us without receiving the Sacrament."
Posted by ElisabethJoanne[/QUOTE]
<div>
</div><div>Well, this isn't true. Communion in the Latin Rite church is open to Eastern Church members as well as orthodox members.</div><div>
</div><div>
</div>

Calypso1977

youve done your due diligence in terms of informing hte priest.
the responsibility for distributing communion lies with the priest.  he may very well deny them (or others).  he has every right to do this.  hopefully these family member will accept his blessing and move on down the line without making a scene.

mica178

For wedding ceremonies where there might be a large number of non-Catholic guests, many priests will announce that not everyone can take Communion, but everyone is welcome to come up for a blessing.  Hopefully that will indicate to your FI's family that the individuals that are not in a state of grace should not partake.

Other than that and your information to the priest, you and he will have done all that you can to try to discourage those who should not take Communion from taking it.  After that, it's on the conscience of the individual.

ootmother2

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_sticky-situation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:1aa84c7e-abc8-4159-9264-2920601b77ffPost:762b2814-c531-4097-be51-c70f098b6eaf">Re: sticky situation</a>:
[QUOTE]This is something that the priest needs to be concerned with. You can discuss your concerns directly with him, but ultimately he is the one that needs to be careful. I would just speak to him about it. If he knew that they were not in a state of grace, he could deny them communion. Please let us know what your priests says, as I'm curious as to how he would handle this.
Posted by Riss91[/QUOTE]

I'm curious as well as this is a pretty sensitive area and would call for caution by the priest without causing embarassment . If he's not perfect, I'm quite sure that God would understand.

ElisabethJoanne

I might have the quote wrong, agape. That's why I prefaced it with the vague "something about how..." And I indicated I left out the details about other jurisdictions. I also cited the source, as well as I can, so someone wanting the correct wording can get it from her parish.

HeatherMKR

No one will notice an unbaptized person taking communion. I've also thought about this, but I realized that I'm going to be paying attention to them. 

A lot of decisions regarding a church wedding is up to the priest and his discretion, like pre-cana locations etc. I did Pre-Cana in 1 day while other people with different priests did the FULL insanely long and drawn out pre cana

professorscience

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_sticky-situation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:1aa84c7e-abc8-4159-9264-2920601b77ffPost:eeace20b-8080-4f64-ac97-0fde969c9837">Re: sticky situation</a>:
[QUOTE]<strong>No one will notice an unbaptized person taking communion.</strong> I've also thought about this, but I realized that I'm going to be paying attention to them.  A lot of decisions regarding a church wedding is up to the priest and his discretion, like pre-cana locations etc. I did Pre-Cana in 1 day while other people with different priests did the FULL insanely long and drawn out pre cana
Posted by HeatherMKR[/QUOTE]

<div>I don't think that's what the OP was worried about at all.</div>

divinemsbee

Are you really thinking they would try to take Communion? I think the ladies here have given some pretty good answers, but I also think that if these people were raised Catholic and still practice to any degree, then they aren't taking Communion anyway if they attend weekly Mass, and they know the drill.

My Mom, whose faith is extremely important to her, doesn't take Communion because she is divorced and re-married to a divorced non-Catholic man. She's the president of her Ladies guild, she's at Mass every Sunday, and she knows that she can't take Communion, nor would it ever occur to her to take it, even when she moved halfway across the country and no one knew her situation. So if these people are in any way still practicing, they will know what to do.

As for others, I've only been to one full Mass wedding, and they had a little note on the back of their program that said a little about Communion and something like "Unfortunately, until our rifts are made whole again, we cannot invite those of other faiths to recieve Communion, but we invite you up to recieve a blessing."

Riss91

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_sticky-situation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:1aa84c7e-abc8-4159-9264-2920601b77ffPost:e45cc8a9-2ffc-417f-9865-103fe0b5694f">Re: sticky situation</a>:
[QUOTE]Are you really thinking they would try to take Communion? I think the ladies here have given some pretty good answers, but I also think that if these people were raised Catholic and still practice to any degree, then they aren't taking Communion anyway if they attend weekly Mass, and they know the drill.Posted by divinemsbee[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, I know more people that would take Communion in these instances, than wouldn't. Many aren't aware that they shouldn't, or simply don't realize what a grave matter it is. And some feel the social pressure of not taking it as more important than the moral pressure.

ElisabethJoanne

Not so much for OP, but for anyone in similar situations, or anyone having a nuptial mass, really: Please double-check with all those administering the Sacrament the parish procedure for receiving/administering blessings. You don't have to talk to them yourself if there's going to be a Deacon or assisting Priest you don't know well serving at your wedding, but have the chief celebrant get everyone on the same page.

See, I'm often at Roman Catholic Masses of all kinds, from the Extraordinary Form in Latin to suburban parishes' youth or folk Masses. I can't receive Communion, but I look like a good Catholic, saying the responses, even in Latin, chapel veil, skirt below the knee, etc. So it can be confusing to those around me if I don't go forward, and awkward, with them stepping over me as I keep kneeling, etc. So I used to always go forward. But then once I was at a Basilica with a Priest (Bishop, even?) visiting from Italy. I approached him, arms crossed over my chest, and he still tried to give me the Host. I had to shake my head. He looked SO SAD.

I've never gone forward for a blessing since. Usually these days I'm seated with friends who know my situation, so it's less awkward, but in parishes where people often receive on the tongue, the arms crossing doesn't work. I'm told it's a mostly American custom, thus explaining my sad story at the basilica. So just make sure all your LEMs and Priests and altar servers are on the same page on these things.

bibliophile2010

In my parish, many people (including those in RCIA or those who are not in a state of grace, but are otherwise faithful Catholics) come forward with arms crossed to receive a blessing. I'm surprised, ElisabethJoanne, that you had problems, but that could certainly be a regional-type thing. I've only had personal problems from improperly trained EMEs. Another technique I've often seen is the person who does not even go up moving out of the pew with the others around him or her, step back, then return to the pew. Often this person will repeat on the other end when those around return. This prevents the people tripping trying to get around you problem.

Regarding the OP, I'm curious to know what comes of things. I am with others that you have done your job with the priest. I might also make gentle, loving reminders to the particular family members and leave it at that. I find that at weddings, because there are often far fewer people receiving communion, there is even less social pressure to receive than normal.

ElisabethJoanne

All my Roman Catholic friends were surprised. And I've learned how to get up like that, too. One friend who attends an Extraordinary Form parish recommended putting my hands in the tented prayer position used at the Altar over my mouth, but after distressing that Italian prelate, it's just not worth it. My advise will take 3 minutes, and as weddings often involve altar servers and LEMs from outside the parish, I think it's a good idea.

agapecarrie

Here's the technical answer:

Blessings at communion are at the moment, not encouraged. The official thing from the Congregation of divine worship is that "this matter is under study" but the practice is not encouraged. 

Unofficially, many priests encourage it and announce it. Especially if there is a possibility that some may not understand and receive communion without knowing what it is. Lots of priests don't think its that big of a deal (I agree), becuase the greater good of guarding the Eucharist is at stake and especially at funerals and weddings when you have lots of non-Catholic attendees and pew jumping, it makes things a bit smoother and its a more inclusive way of educating about it.

I think its a pretty regional thing. 

ElisabethJoanne

Ah, that's coming back to me.

Do you know the reasoning against discouraging blessings? Obviously, liturgical and pastoral decisions shouldn't be made just because it's awkward to be climbed over, or to have to get up, and slip back into the pew, etc. But my Priests always say, "We like blessing things" (when I bring them a new icon, etc., to bless). And maybe there's a value, besides the awkwardness issues, in having non-communicants physically participate in this way. We worship with our whole bodies.

I guess the Church is still working out this whole open mystery of the Eucharist. Way-back-when, of course, non-communicants couldn't attend that part of the Mass. Now all are welcome to attend Mass, but not all are welcome to receive at that time. And, despite all the innovations over the last, oh, 1,600 years, we still aren't sure how to handle that.

ootmother2

Bill Clinton took communion at a mass, if I recall correctly, it was at a Catholic mass at in a country in Africa.

No one noticed until the press picked up on it and had a field day with it.

But I guess no one died even though it was in the middle of the Lewinsky scandal.

UGH

ElisabethJoanne

The real question would be whether the priest was disciplined.

A few years ago, some "Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence" received Communion from the Archbishop at a parish in the Castro. The Archbishop's statement afterward said he remembered giving Communion to people in strange costumes at the Mass, but did not recognize them as members of this infamous group, which he hadn't learned of 'til after the incident. Personally, I could only fault the Archbishop for not being more aware of the temptations in his archdiocese. I don't think we should expect those administering Communion to have to make decisions on whether those presenting themselves to receive look Catholic or reverent enough.

caitriona87

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_sticky-situation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:1aa84c7e-abc8-4159-9264-2920601b77ffPost:d62521ea-1e14-4424-ba1a-41dccb9f4841">Re: sticky situation</a>:
[QUOTE]Ah, that's coming back to me. Do you know the reasoning against discouraging blessings?
Posted by ElisabethJoanne[/QUOTE]

My understanding is that it's twofold. First, the utmost importance of the Eucharist and reverence we show towards it can be compromised in favor of making people feel better. The purpose of the line to go up to receive is to receive, not to do what everyone else is doing or make people feel included (which some might argue is a false inclusivity anyway.) Giving a blessing as a sort of consolation prize can be seen as minimizing that importance.  I can appreciate the logistical issues, but I think those who discourage the practice would say there are ways around them. 

The other issue is that laypeople can't actually give blessings (except for a father to his own family) and at the moment when many churches employ such a plethora of EMHOC's, it causes confusion about who can and can't legitimately bless, and then what do the EMHOC's say or do at that point? 

lalaith50

Another reason that I've heard, is that it's kind of redundant to give a blessing at communion time, since everyone is about to get a blessing from the priest at the very end of mass.

bibliophile2010

First, my understanding is the the "blessing" is truly meant for those who sincerely desire to be united with the faithful in the Eucharist, but for serious reasons cannot be, notably those in the RCIA process or who are otherwise seeking the sacraments of initiation. Technically speaking, one who is simply not in a state of grace should not approach in this way, though of course it happens, probably because of the social pressure in many parishes for everyone in attendance to file up for communion.

Secondly, in my parish, EMoHCs are expressly trained that it is not a blessing that is given out, and the word "bless" should not be used. Though some priests may (perhaps improperly) bless those who approach with arms crossed, the appropriate thing to do is pray aloud that the person "receive the Lord Jesus in [his] heart." Since I've heard the same phrase throughout my diocese (haven't thought about it elsewhere), I've always assumed the mandate comes from higher up.

[Deleted User]

At my old parish, it's suggested (read: required) to put communion guidelines in the wedding program. That said, it's up to each Catholic guest to know whether to receive, and not up to the priest to memorize the state of everyone's affairs and whether they may or may not be in a state of sin. I think it would be highly unlikely that the priest would deny the groom's family communion.

In other words, trust your fiance's family. And if they slip, trust them to fix it. It won't be the last time you'll need to do so.