Urgh, someone please help!

kszydloski

So I'm getting married next August - August 3, 2013 to be exact. And as you probably all know, being newly engaged all I want to do is start planning, planning, planning until my eyes become crossed due to staring at the computer screen looking for ideas for WAY too long! We've set a date, booked a reception hall and a photographer.
 
I'm Catholic and so is my fiance so I had just imagined and assumed that we'd get married in the Catholic church in my hometown in Michigan where my family has also been attending for years and years. Problem is my fiance has been married once before and never had the marriage annulled. So, what does that mean for us? It turns out, we're not allowed to get married as Catholics until it's annulled and we've been told that it could take anywhere from a year-and-a-half to several years costing a lot of money. So it's looking like if we want to get married within the next five years (or so) we won't be able to get married in the Catholic church.

My mother is going to flip!

Has anyone been through a similar situation? I'm heart broken to be honest with you. I'm happy in my faith and wanted to be able to take my children (one day!) to church and if we get married by let's say a minister at an outdoor ceremony in the eyes of the Catholic church that will never happen and is unacceptable. Please help with any advice on how to tell my family, what to do, etc. Any help is greatly appreciated!!

agapecarrie

Catholics believe marriage lasts until death, a civil divorce cannot undo a marriage. Your fiance is not free to marry because he is still considered to be married to his first wife. The first step is for him to see a priest immediately. Do not delay. Do not put any money down on anything else. (A big problem here is that you didn't seek out the church first). 

Depending on his baptismal status, where he was married, etc, etc could make the process longer or shorter. The long annulment process can take some time, chunks of that time depend on the witnesses statements and getting those back quickly. It costs the diocese a lot of money, which they usually only pass on half of that cost to the applicant, and no one is kept from getting an annulment because of money.

Please please do this correctly. A catholic is bound by following form of the Catholic church, and they cannot marry validly without doing so. 

Nickie431

Congratulations on your engagement!  First, take a deep breath and say a prayer for serentiy.  I understand how difficult it is to have the excitement of a recent engagement dampered.  My husband (not Catholic) had been married previously and the process for his annullment was logistically easy, though the extensive questions he had to answer did bring up some unpleasant emotions.  The timeframe depends on the backlog in the diocese where your husband was married, as that's the tribunal that will process the request.  Contact that office now to get the process started as soon as possible.  They will recommend a trained volunteer advocate who will assist you and serve as a liason to the tribunal.

For us, the first step was for my husband to complete a fairly thick packet of information (questions ranged from his home environment growing up to the circumstances under which he'd met his first wife to specific issues they dealt with in their realtionship), though my understanding is that the exact questions vary by diocese.  Along with the packet he had to submit the marriage license, divorce decree, and his first wife's current address, so start finding those if they're not at hand.  The process could not officially begin until all this ad been received.  At a later point, four witnesses had to complete information about the relationship, so your fiance should also start thinking of family members or friends who had knowledge of the marriage and might be willing to serve as such.  (If his first wife will likely not object to the annullment, don't count out her relatives or friends, either.)  The rest of the process was waiting.  We were fortunate, and start to end was only 6 months, which is definitely shorter than the national average.  And it was not expensive at all: only $150 in two payments, though that will vary by diocese.

I realize you have a date set and some vendors booked.  I encourage you to consider what is most important in your situation: having a valid marriage blessed by the Church and raising your future children in the faith you love or maintaining a wedding date?  My husband and I waited until his annullment came through to begin preparations and planning, but we needed a longer engagement to deal first with some personal issues.  Some priests/parishes may allow you to begin pre-marital preparation and counseling as long an an annullment has been filed while others will prefer you wait.

Please talk extensively with your fiance about your values and the home/family culture you'd like to have.  Your marriage is the foundation of your future home and family.  And pray, pray, pray that the Lord will guide you.

Should you and your fiance determine you want to proceed with the annullment, I'd contact the vendors you've booked to ask whether they can apply your deposit toward a future, undetermined wedding date.  With this much notice, many many be willing.

I'll be praying for you, too, and I'm happy to give you any other information about our experience that will be helpful.  Best wishes!

professorscience

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_urgh-someone-please-help?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:2fc62d72-b0a5-48be-ac33-026d76841700Post:24600e7f-ec7d-4be4-b87c-a1d132bdd193">Re: Urgh, someone please help!</a>:
[QUOTE]I realize you have a date set and some vendors booked.  I encourage you to consider what is most important in your situation: having a valid marriage blessed by the Church and raising your future children in the faith you love or maintaining a wedding date?  My husband and I waited until his annullment came through to begin preparations and planning, but we needed a longer engagement to deal first with some personal issues.  Some priests/parishes may allow you to begin pre-marital preparation and counseling as long an an annullment has been filed while others will prefer you wait. Please talk extensively with your fiance about your values and the home/family culture you'd like to have.  Your marriage is the foundation of your future home and family.  And pray, pray, pray that the Lord will guide you. Should you and your fiance determine you want to proceed with the annullment, I'd contact the vendors you've booked to ask whether they can apply your deposit toward a future, undetermined wedding date.  With this much notice, many many be willing. I'll be praying for you, too, and I'm happy to give you any other information about our experience that will be helpful.  Best wishes!
Posted by Nickie431[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>Nickie gives incredible advice, but I wanted to emphasize the quoted part here.  You may find that your vendors are able to hold your deposit and push your event back to a later date.  I sincerely hope that this works out for you, that the annulment process is quick and relatively painless, and that you and your FI can get moving on a marriage that can be recognized by the church!

</div>

kszydloski

IThank you so much for your response. It's very important to me to be married in the Catholic church, and it's as equally important to take my future family to a Catholic church as well. I can't tell you how much I appreciate you telling me what your experience was like - I'm going to share this information with my fiance as well.

My fiance has the paperwork necessary to start the annullment process and has contacted the diocese to get the process started. He's now locating documents necessary to begin. He's also gathering witnesses, and trying to locate his ex-wife. For him, this process is very difficult for several different reasons: (1) he has to dig into his past and relive his divorce, which included his ex-wife becoming an alcoholic and having several affairs; (2) he feels like he not only let me down, but let my family down as well. As you can imagine, it's becoming a very stressful situation for everyone involved.

I like your advice about contacting the priest that will (hopefully) marry us and telling him about what we're going through, etc. Thanks again so much!



n Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_urgh-someone-please-help?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:2fc62d72-b0a5-48be-ac33-026d76841700Post:24600e7f-ec7d-4be4-b87c-a1d132bdd193">Re: Urgh, someone please help!</a>:
[QUOTE]Congratulations on your engagement!  First, take a deep breath and say a prayer for serentiy.  I understand how difficult it is to have the excitement of a recent engagement dampered.  My husband (not Catholic) had been married previously and the process for his annullment was logistically easy, though the extensive questions he had to answer did bring up some unpleasant emotions.  The timeframe depends on the backlog in the diocese where your husband was married, as that's the tribunal that will process the request.  Contact that office now to get the process started as soon as possible.  They will recommend a trained volunteer advocate who will assist you and serve as a liason to the tribunal. For us, the first step was for my husband to complete a fairly thick packet of information (questions ranged from his home environment growing up to the circumstances under which he'd met his first wife to specific issues they dealt with in their realtionship), though my understanding is that the exact questions vary by diocese.  Along with the packet he had to submit the marriage license, divorce decree, and his first wife's current address, so start finding those if they're not at hand.  The process could not officially begin until all this ad been received.  At a later point, four witnesses had to complete information about the relationship, so your fiance should also start thinking of family members or friends who had knowledge of the marriage and might be willing to serve as such.  (If his first wife will likely not object to the annullment, don't count out her relatives or friends, either.)  The rest of the process was waiting.  We were fortunate, and start to end was only 6 months, which is definitely shorter than the national average.  And it was not expensive at all: only $150 in two payments, though that will vary by diocese. I realize you have a date set and some vendors booked.  I encourage you to consider what is most important in your situation: having a valid marriage blessed by the Church and raising your future children in the faith you love or maintaining a wedding date?  My husband and I waited until his annullment came through to begin preparations and planning, but we needed a longer engagement to deal first with some personal issues.  Some priests/parishes may allow you to begin pre-marital preparation and counseling as long an an annullment has been filed while others will prefer you wait. Please talk extensively with your fiance about your values and the home/family culture you'd like to have.  Your marriage is the foundation of your future home and family.  And pray, pray, pray that the Lord will guide you. Should you and your fiance determine you want to proceed with the annullment, I'd contact the vendors you've booked to ask whether they can apply your deposit toward a future, undetermined wedding date.  With this much notice, many many be willing. I'll be praying for you, too, and I'm happy to give you any other information about our experience that will be helpful.  Best wishes!
Posted by Nickie431[/QUOTE]

kszydloski

Thank you! I also hope that everything works out and that the annullment process is relatively painless. It's very important to me to have a marriage that is recognized and valid by the Catholic church. All I can do at this point is pray.


n Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_urgh-someone-please-help?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:2fc62d72-b0a5-48be-ac33-026d76841700Post:aa231aa7-a0a2-4d47-ad71-ff1f10fc28d1">Re: Urgh, someone please help!</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Urgh, someone please help! : Nickie gives incredible advice, but I wanted to emphasize the quoted part here.  You may find that your vendors are able to hold your deposit and push your event back to a later date.  I sincerely hope that this works out for you, that the annulment process is quick and relatively painless, and that you and your FI can get moving on a marriage that can be recognized by the church!
Posted by professorscience[/QUOTE]

Resa77

I'm sure you're extremely stressed and disappointed, so I just want to offer my support and encouragement.  I've never been married, nor has FI, so I don't have direct experience with this.  There are a lot of "should haves" you could say in your situation (should have gotten the annulment before seriously dating; should have gotten the okay from the church before booking vendors and venues, etc), but the thing is, most people don't know how the whole annulment thing works, or all the "rules" surrounding it. And rightfully so!  It's not like we're all just walking around, getting annulments left and right.  Good luck!  I hope you'll seriously consider putting wedding plans on hold while you get through the annulment process!

kszydloski

Yes, I'm very stressed, very disappointed and very emotional! It just kind of feels like we have to take 10 steps backward when we were both ready to take 100 steps forward. That's where we're at right now - discussing the "should haves!" Part of me is upset that he didn't take care of this before proposing and the other half of me feels terrible that he has to go through this.

Thank you for your support and encouragement!!

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_urgh-someone-please-help?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:2fc62d72-b0a5-48be-ac33-026d76841700Post:4e5ccd60-32e4-4134-adbb-c1a57d93e051">Re: Urgh, someone please help!</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm sure you're extremely stressed and disappointed, so I just want to offer my support and encouragement.  I've never been married, nor has FI, so I don't have direct experience with this.  There are a lot of "should haves" you could say in your situation (should have gotten the annulment before seriously dating; should have gotten the okay from the church before booking vendors and venues, etc), but the thing is, most people don't know how the whole annulment thing works, or all the "rules" surrounding it. And rightfully so!  It's not like we're all just walking around, getting annulments left and right.  Good luck!  I hope you'll seriously consider putting wedding plans on hold while you get through the annulment process!
Posted by Resa77[/QUOTE]

jfellows82

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_urgh-someone-please-help?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:2fc62d72-b0a5-48be-ac33-026d76841700Post:6e5db7a9-7ad9-4bf7-b690-83a0284b8003">Re: Urgh, someone please help!</a>:
[QUOTE]For him, this process is very difficult for several different reasons: (1) he has to dig into his past and relive his divorce, which included his ex-wife becoming an alcoholic and having several affairs; (2) he feels like he not only let me down, but let my family down as well. As you can imagine, it's becoming a very stressful situation for everyone involved. 
Posted by kszydloski[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>I went through a situation similar to your FI, and, while emotionally difficult at times, I found the annulment process to be such a positive experience.  It really helped me to work through some issues and emotions relating to my first marriage and divorce that I didn't even realize I was still clinging onto.  It also led to some great conversations between me and H about what my prior experiences had brought into our relationship.  </div><div>
</div><div>I pray that the annulment process will be a healing one for your FI and that itl brings the two of you even closer together.  Of course, I echo the other's sentimates that it is totally worth the wait!  

</div>

agapecarrie

I wanted to mention that although going through the questions may be painful... one has to take the bandaid off of a wound in order for it to heal. It can be a very graced and healing process, that can really help you in your future, should the annulment be granted.

Just also wanted to mention, the annulment process investigates at the time of the marriage if there was a valid marriage. What happens during the marriage may show evidence that there was a lack at the time of the vows, but in itself is not proof that the marriage didn't take place. 

professorscience

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_urgh-someone-please-help?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:2fc62d72-b0a5-48be-ac33-026d76841700Post:7217a883-934c-4bb5-82f8-4067104d332a">Re: Urgh, someone please help!</a>:
[QUOTE]Yes, I'm very stressed, very disappointed and very emotional! It just kind of feels like we have to take 10 steps backward when we were both ready to take 100 steps forward. That's where we're at right now - discussing the "should haves!" Part of me is upset that he didn't take care of this before proposing and the other half of me feels terrible that he has to go through this. Thank you for your support and encouragement!! In Response to Re: Urgh, someone please help! :
Posted by kszydloski[/QUOTE]

<div>Please don't lose hope and please keep us updated!  This is a very supportive community with lots of women who have been through the annulment process!</div>

kszydloski

Thank you for the information. I completely agree and truly feel that if we go through this process together we'll have a happier and stronger marriage. I think at this point, I really feel helpless. I don't know what to do to help him through this. I will be honest and say that he's dreading it. Not because of the length of time or the money, but because it's painful for him. And perhaps this will help our marraige in the end. Again, thank you for the info!


In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_urgh-someone-please-help?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:2fc62d72-b0a5-48be-ac33-026d76841700Post:a06240ee-4552-43c6-9130-c5f66c90bd46">Re: Urgh, someone please help!</a>:
[QUOTE]I wanted to mention that although going through the questions may be painful... one has to take the bandaid off of a wound in order for it to heal. It can be a very graced and healing process, that can really help you in your future, should the annulment be granted. Just also wanted to mention, the annulment process investigates at the time of the marriage if there was a valid marriage. What happens during the marriage may show evidence that there was a lack at the time of the vows, but in itself is not proof that the marriage didn't take place. 
Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]

kszydloski

I will absolutely keep you updated throughout the process. This is the first time I've posted anything on TheKnot and I have to say that so far, I'm very impressed with the responses and the time that you're all taking to respond to me. I really appreciate you all - you're all my angels.

Thank you!

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_urgh-someone-please-help?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:2fc62d72-b0a5-48be-ac33-026d76841700Post:19e46136-4efb-4273-88fa-0d9f27bd8e2c">Re: Urgh, someone please help!</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Urgh, someone please help! : Please don't lose hope and please keep us updated!  This is a very supportive community with lots of women who have been through the annulment process!
Posted by professorscience[/QUOTE]

lv2011

You said you're looking to be married in your home parish in Michigan. May I ask which parish? I'm in Michigan, too, and have been through (and almost done) with the annulment process here and may be able to provide some insight for you. Like you, we set the date and had a venue deposit down before speaking to the church about getting married. So I fully understand that feeling of having someone popped the happy engagement balloon. It stinks. Thankfully, the priest in our parish is a family friend to FI, and he has acted as my advocate in the process.

I think you should be forewarned that in some cases, filling out the paperwork does not necessarily mean that the process has officially begun. I filed in the diocese I live. Then the paperwork was sent to the diocese in which I'd been previously married. They refused the case because of current caseload. Then it went on to the diocese in which my ex lives. The whole thing was processed through them, but I had started the case on my end 6 months previous to their acceptance of it. So, that can be a potential hold up to consider. To my understanding, the case has to be processed in the diocese in which the marriage was held, or the diocese of the respondent (in this case, your FI's ex).

The paperwork was painfully enlightening. I say that because bad feelings Do get brought to the surface. But it's also healing. There were a lot of things that I didn't want to acknowledge to myself, things about that marriage I didn't want to face. And painful as it can be, it was actually very cleansing. I can't say all people have a similar experience, but it can be positive rather than something to dread. 

Depending on the diocese in which your FI has his case processed, you may need anywhere from 2-6 witnesses. I was fortunate that I only needed 2. And my family happily helped out with that. If your FI had a very acrimonious divorce, and isn't comfortable with her family, it may be better to seek witnesses elsewhere. Though, on the flip side of that, an angry and bitter response to the questions could actually help in pointing out all the flaws. The process isn't about assigning blame, anyway. It's about the fundamental problems that existed prior to and leading into the marriage.

At every important juncture of the case, the diocese will mail your FI and his ex a letter stating which part of the process has been completed and what is next. This also provides the respondent (his ex) with the opportunity to contribute and add or argue what has been done and written thus far. There will usually be a "must respond within x days" noted. If not responded to, the case automatically proceeds to the next phase. Pray for no response from the ex. Not because he/she shouldn't have a say, but because everything that gets added testimony-wise also adds to the time it takes to get through the process. I have been very fortunate that my ex has wanted no involvement in our case.

After the diocese reaches a decision, it will then proceed to a second diocese for a second review. This is the process I'm in right now, so I can't really shed much light on it for you yet. I did contact the diocese and ask about how their process works and time frame, and it just depends on how busy their case-load is. They told me it could be 3 weeks to 9 months. So far, from the time I first inquired about seeking an annulment to now, it's been 1 yr and 1 month. From the time the paperwork was officially processed with the proper diocese to now, it's been 6 months. Hopefully, that gives you a sense of the time it takes.

As far as planning goes, we made sure that our vendors were able to transfer deposits to a later date should our original date end up not being able to work. I want to encourage you to not get too deep into planning anything because it will mean greater disappointment to you all if the timing doesn't come together. Everything that we have done so far is transferable.

We are lucky in that our parish priest has been fully working with us to satisfy the pre-cana requirement. He's made the process a pleasure, even with all that is going on behind the scenes. As long as you are honest about your situation, you have nothing to be ashamed of. Not in explaining to your family, or your FI's family. These things happen. And the process is there to protect you both. When all is said and done, at the very least you'll know exactly where you stand and what your options are.

I should also note that just because the official paper portion gets completed and the previous marriage is declared nullified, that may not immediately free your FI to be married. There very well may be a requirement to have counseling to deal with residual issues/ trauma of the previous marriage. If you think that may be the case, depending on your personal conversations w/ your FI, you may wish to begin that now so as to not have that time tacked on. Obviously, don't force him. But I'm pretty convinced that anyone who has been through a divorce could use some counseling anyway- even if it's on a minimal level.

Wow! Sorry, this ended up being pretty long. But I hope it gives you some additional insight on what to expect. Coongratualtions on your engagement! You have my prayers for a speedy and positive process.

agapecarrie

I need to comment on something the pp said. 

The goal here is not speed. The goal here is truth. Just because more testimony might take longer does not mean that is the better way. One should hope that the truth is revealed and the more testimony used the more likely that is possible. 

professorscience

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_urgh-someone-please-help?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:2fc62d72-b0a5-48be-ac33-026d76841700Post:4e14c241-c4cf-4db3-a1ae-176c02571829">Re: Urgh, someone please help!</a>:
[QUOTE]I need to comment on something the pp said.  The goal here is not speed. The goal here is truth. Just because more testimony might take longer does not mean that is the better way. One should hope that the truth is revealed and the more testimony used the more likely that is possible. 
Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]

<div>I don't think anyone disputes that fact.  It is a painful process no matter what the circumstances, and we can all hope it is as quick as possible.</div>

lv2011

Sorry, Agape. I didn't mean to imply it should rushed. Far from it. Definitely use as many witnesses as you have access to because it will provide the fullest picture of the marriage to the tribunal. I only wanted to point out that someone with vile hatred of the person filing may not be someone to trust with such a heavy and important process. It should be given full and honest consideration, and people with malicious intent would not satisfy that need well.

I also just thought it'd be helpful to OP to know how much approximate time each portion takes. I know that when I started this, I really wanted to fly through it and was very anxious about the time. I've since let go of that and understand that the process exists in its state for a reason and should not be rushed. But that was a learned mentality. It didn't come easily, especially since we wanted to get planning right away

kszydloski

I'm so happy you replied - thank you so much for the information that you shared with me :)
We want to be married at St. Mary's Mystical Rose in Armada, Michigan. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the area but we're about an hour north of Detroit.

Out situation is similar because my FI was married In Pittsburgh, PA, we now live in Maryland, but will be moving to Michigan mid-August. His advocate is going to be the priest that actually married he and his ex-wife in Pennsylvania. I really like your idea about going to counseling - I would have had no idea that this was possibly required so you saved us some time! Do you have any idea how long after the annulment that you're allowed to get married?

At this point and from what I know of my FI's ex, she'll either not respond or have terrible and very bitter things to say. They've been divorced for several years (5+) and she'll still call him in the middle of the night just yelling at him. Urgh, just not a good situation. Hopefully the annulment will bring peace to my FI. Thanks again for your response. I will be sure to share this information with him. 


In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_urgh-someone-please-help?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:2fc62d72-b0a5-48be-ac33-026d76841700Post:69c808e8-9de9-41f9-8831-e500b24c969c">Re: Urgh, someone please help!</a>:
[QUOTE]You said you're looking to be married in your home parish in Michigan. May I ask which parish? I'm in Michigan, too, and have been through (and almost done) with the annulment process here and may be able to provide some insight for you. Like you, we set the date and had a venue deposit down before speaking to the church about getting married. So I fully understand that feeling of having someone popped the happy engagement balloon. It stinks. Thankfully, the priest in our parish is a family friend to FI, and he has acted as my advocate in the process. I think you should be forewarned that in some cases, filling out the paperwork does not necessarily mean that the process has officially begun. I filed in the diocese I live. Then the paperwork was sent to the diocese in which I'd been previously married. They refused the case because of current caseload. Then it went on to the diocese in which my ex lives. The whole thing was processed through them, but I had started the case on my end 6 months previous to their acceptance of it. So, that can be a potential hold up to consider. To my understanding, the case has to be processed in the diocese in which the marriage was held, or the diocese of the respondent (in this case, your FI's ex). The paperwork was painfully enlightening. I say that because bad feelings Do get brought to the surface. But it's also healing. There were a lot of things that I didn't want to acknowledge to myself, things about that marriage I didn't want to face. And painful as it can be, it was actually very cleansing. I can't say all people have a similar experience, but it can be positive rather than something to dread.  Depending on the diocese in which your FI has his case processed, you may need anywhere from 2-6 witnesses. I was fortunate that I only needed 2. And my family happily helped out with that. If your FI had a very acrimonious divorce, and isn't comfortable with her family, it may be better to seek witnesses elsewhere. Though, on the flip side of that, an angry and bitter response to the questions could actually help in pointing out all the flaws. The process isn't about assigning blame, anyway. It's about the fundamental problems that existed prior to and leading into the marriage. At every important juncture of the case, the diocese will mail your FI and his ex a letter stating which part of the process has been completed and what is next. This also provides the respondent (his ex) with the opportunity to contribute and add or argue what has been done and written thus far. There will usually be a "must respond within x days" noted. If not responded to, the case automatically proceeds to the next phase. Pray for no response from the ex. Not because he/she shouldn't have a say, but because everything that gets added testimony-wise also adds to the time it takes to get through the process. I have been very fortunate that my ex has wanted no involvement in our case. After the diocese reaches a decision, it will then proceed to a second diocese for a second review. This is the process I'm in right now, so I can't really shed much light on it for you yet. I did contact the diocese and ask about how their process works and time frame, and it just depends on how busy their case-load is. They told me it could be 3 weeks to 9 months. So far, from the time I first inquired about seeking an annulment to now, it's been 1 yr and 1 month. From the time the paperwork was officially processed with the proper diocese to now, it's been 6 months. Hopefully, that gives you a sense of the time it takes. As far as planning goes, we made sure that our vendors were able to transfer deposits to a later date should our original date end up not being able to work. I want to encourage you to not get too deep into planning anything because it will mean greater disappointment to you all if the timing doesn't come together. Everything that we have done so far is transferable. We are lucky in that our parish priest has been fully working with us to satisfy the pre-cana requirement. He's made the process a pleasure, even with all that is going on behind the scenes. As long as you are honest about your situation, you have nothing to be ashamed of. Not in explaining to your family, or your FI's family. These things happen. And the process is there to protect you both. When all is said and done, at the very least you'll know exactly where you stand and what your options are. I should also note that just because the official paper portion gets completed and the previous marriage is declared nullified, that may not immediately free your FI to be married. There very well may be a requirement to have counseling to deal with residual issues/ trauma of the previous marriage. If you think that may be the case, depending on your personal conversations w/ your FI, you may wish to begin that now so as to not have that time tacked on. Obviously, don't force him. But I'm pretty convinced that anyone who has been through a divorce could use some counseling anyway- even if it's on a minimal level. Wow! Sorry, this ended up being pretty long. But I hope it gives you some additional insight on what to expect. Coongratualtions on your engagement! You have my prayers for a speedy and positive process.
Posted by lv2011[/QUOTE]

lv2011

To my knowledge, there is no "must wait x months to marry" or any other time restriction upon completion unless there is a stipulation for counseling. If that's the case, then a letter from the counselor and the advocate to both tribunals and the church where the marriage will be held is sufficient.

I'm a Michigan west-sider, so unfortunately I'm unfamiliar with your parish. But it sounds like the whole thing will be processed out of Pittsburgh anyway. I think that's awesome that the priest who married your FI previously is his advocate. That should be helpful for your FI in perhaps identifying those things that may have been lacking or absent from that marriage.

I would also advise your FI to keep in regular contact with the tribunals. Sometimes it can feel like it's been too long since a communication, and it can be re-affirming that the process is continuing as it should to call every now and then just to make sure. Certainly, he shouldn't feel like he's a burden by calling. That's what the office is there for.

Again, best of luck to you both!

kszydloski

Thanks for the info! Knowing my FI, he'll call often to make sure everything is moving along. 

The west side of the state is absolutely beautiful. I don't know about you, but my favorite place in Michigan has to be Traverse City on Lake Michigan - nothing better!

pittpoint1119

I know I will get back lash on this, but a friend of mine was married in our home parish a few years ago. He got a divorce and never went through the process. He recently got engaged a few months and started the process. His FI and her child are in the process of taking classes to be catholic. He was told the paper work will not be offical for some time. They decided to get married at the one non-demoninational church on the Pitt Campus everyone uses. I understand in the eyes of the church it will not be recognized and so do they. They already talked with the priest and once the paper work is offical they will have a small ceremony in our church to offically recognize. Now some might think that is wrong, but they have been meeting with the priest. I am not sure if that is at all possible for you guys to do or even talk with your priest? Just a suggestion.

professorscience

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_urgh-someone-please-help?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:2fc62d72-b0a5-48be-ac33-026d76841700Post:2800e6ac-af60-4d6c-a290-da533047832d">Re: Urgh, someone please help!</a>:
[QUOTE]I know I will get back lash on this, but a friend of mine was married in our home parish a few years ago. He got a divorce and never went through the process. He recently got engaged a few months and started the process. His FI and her child are in the process of taking classes to be catholic. He was told the paper work will not be offical for some time. They decided to get married at the one non-demoninational church on the Pitt Campus everyone uses. I understand in the eyes of the church it will not be recognized and so do they. They already talked with the priest and once the paper work is offical they will have a small ceremony in our church to offically recognize. Now some might think that is wrong, but they have been meeting with the priest. I am not sure if that is at all possible for you guys to do or even talk with your priest? Just a suggestion.
Posted by pittpoint1119[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>I just really dislike the idea of just "getting things out of the way" instead of doing things correctly.  It just seems... selfish(?) to me.  Instant gratification is not always a good thing.</div><div>
</div><div>Edit: OP, most churches require at least six months' notice to complete all necessary preparations for your marriage.  If you're working with your parish, they might be able to start the pre-marital counseling before the annulment is completed so that you can go ahead and get married if the annulment is granted, like lv is doing.</div><div>
</div>

bibliophile2010

I don't have anything of substance to add, but OP, I just wanted to share my love and support and my encouragement to stick around. We're here with you the whole way!

*hugs* and *prayers*

lv2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_urgh-someone-please-help?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:2fc62d72-b0a5-48be-ac33-026d76841700Post:2800e6ac-af60-4d6c-a290-da533047832d">Re: Urgh, someone please help!</a>:
[QUOTE]I know I will get back lash on this, but a friend of mine was married in our home parish a few years ago. He got a divorce and never went through the process. He recently got engaged a few months and started the process. His FI and her child are in the process of taking classes to be catholic. He was told the paper work will not be offical for some time. They decided to get married at the one non-demoninational church on the Pitt Campus everyone uses. I understand in the eyes of the church it will not be recognized and so do they. They already talked with the priest and once the paper work is offical they will have a small ceremony in our church to offically recognize. Now some might think that is wrong, but they have been meeting with the priest. I am not sure if that is at all possible for you guys to do or even talk with your priest? Just a suggestion.
Posted by pittpoint1119[/QUOTE]

It is true that in some cases a priest will consent to convalidate a marriage. But there usually has to be some pretty serious reason as to why it wasn't done in the church in the first place. A priest may or may not look kindly on a couple skirting around the process just so they could get married sooner. Don't get me wrong. I totally understand why a couple would want to. FI and I have thought about it a few times! The process can be long and tedious, but it's in place for a reason and shouldn't be ignored if a couple really and truly wants to be in communion with the church. Which is why we'll wait until it's completed before marrying.

I guess OP should discuss with her parish priest if a convalidation is an option they can pursue. He and the diocesan bishop will have to make that call. I'd really hate for her to go ahead with planning a non-catholic wedding in the hopes of having the marriage convalidated, only to find out when it's too late that it's not an option for them.

OP, tread carefully with that idea. I'd hate for you to have additional heartbreak.

Resa77

I don't like the attitude of "we'll just fix this later."  You can't undo a sin.  You can confess and have a sin forgiven.  You can change the situation to make it right (like convalidating your marriage), but you can't undo the sin and its effects.    That kind of attitude can get you in a lot of trouble!

kszydloski

I don't really know how to respond to this except to say that yes, I realize that my FI has commited a sin for getting a divorce, but at the same time I'm frustrated because when he got married he never imagined that his wife would have several affairs and turn to alcohol and drugs. He remained faithful and tried to make it work because he didn't want to divorce. He loved her very much - isn't that why we all get married in the first place?

So now, years later, when he finally gets the courage to marry again he has to pay to be forgiven, and even then he might not get the marriage annuled in the first place. 

I have to apologize for venting and I do respect everyones thoughts and opinions and I'm thankful for what everyone has to say on this issue. At this point, I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this. I'm sure I'll get some unpleasant comments on this, but it's how I feel.


In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_urgh-someone-please-help?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:2fc62d72-b0a5-48be-ac33-026d76841700Post:3b66100b-39f6-4bef-a219-ce933f332a8a">Re: Urgh, someone please help!</a>:
[QUOTE]I don't like the attitude of "we'll just fix this later."  You can't undo a sin.  You can confess and have a sin forgiven.  You can change the situation to make it right (like convalidating your marriage), but you can't undo the sin and its effects.    That kind of attitude can get you in a lot of trouble!
Posted by Resa77[/QUOTE]

Resa77

I wasn't directing that to you, ksz   I meant the attitude of knowingly getting married outside the Church with the attitude of "that's okay, I'll convalidate later."  I don't think you have that attitude, from what you've said.  And also to clarify, I don't believe divorcing is a sin.  I could be wrong, but that's my understanding.  After all, you have to divorce before you can annul!  The sin I referenced would be knowingly getting married outside the Church, knowing that it's invalid.  I'm sorry for the confusion!

pittpoint1119

I am not the one going through the issue at my home parish it is a couple that I am very close with at the church. I don't like the you can do it later either, but to them they wanted to. The paper work has been filed and should be hearing back they get married in August. I was just throwing that out there, what they were doing!

Calypso1977

the problem with marrying outside of the church then hoping for a convalidation later is that what if his first marriage cant be annulled?  you are then civilly married to someone taht you can never be married to in the church (unless his first wife dies).  what would you do then? 

its a tough process, but it will be well worth the wait to do things right.  best of luck.

professorscience

ksz, the divorce is not the sin.  Sometimes marriages don't work.  Divorcing someone and then marrying someone else without getting an annulment IS a sin (having grown up in a church where divorce+remarriage was just unheard of, I could probably still rattle off the chapter and verse where this comes from).  I think that's what Resa was referencing.

Please don't feel like you can't vent to us, but please also understand that you might hear some things you don't want to.  For instance, if you decide to just have a JOP ceremony, you will be told that that is not the right thing to do.  We're very supportive, but we're also very in love with our faith, and we want all Catholics (and everyone) to be living in accordance with God's will.

kszydloski

Hi RESA, I'm sorry :( I'm just an emotional wreck right now! On top of annulment, getting ready to plan a wedding, etc., we're also moving and I haven't found a job yet in the place we're moving - so many things are just running on top each other. I'm sorry :(


In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_urgh-someone-please-help?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:2fc62d72-b0a5-48be-ac33-026d76841700Post:8f546ac7-f9e5-4808-8c0f-051e1c393fba">Re: Urgh, someone please help!</a>:
[QUOTE]I wasn't directing that to you, ksz :)  I meant the attitude of knowingly getting married outside the Church with the attitude of "that's okay, I'll convalidate later."  I don't think you have that attitude, from what you've said.  And also to clarify, I don't believe divorcing is a sin.  I could be wrong, but that's my understanding.  After all, you have to divorce before you can annul!  The sin I referenced would be knowingly getting married outside the Church, knowing that it's invalid.  I'm sorry for the confusion!
Posted by Resa77[/QUOTE]