Tuesday Questions

Resa77

Anyone have any?  I'll start, but I expect others to contribute questions  

Would you ever consider homeschooling your children/do you homeschool?

Resa77

I'd definitely consider it, but it's not necessarily what I plan on doing.  I was homeschooled K-6, and I learned a lot.  I was on-target or ahead of my classmates when I got to 7th grade and went to Catholic school.  As a matter of fact, the only students that I was usually "behind" were other homeschoolers.  So I definitely have a positive view of academics in homeschooling.  I wouldn't homeschool past elementarty school, because for me personally, I would hold my kids back.  I don't know foreign languages (took them, but I don't know them now lol), and I certainly don't remember all the math.  I also think it would be hard to do labs for the advanced sciences.  For elementary school, I'm sure there are things that bigger schools can do better, but I think it becomes a bigger deal in the middle school and high-school years.

That being said, I do have some concern over the social aspects of homeschooling.  When I was younger, I hung out a lot with neighbor kids who went to public school, and I also did dance, so I was exposed to non-homeschoolers.  People are always shocked I was homeschooled (and were even when I was in 7th grade, just out of homeschooling) because I'm not "weird."  Of course, I was that homeschooler in the homeschool groups complaining to my Mom that the other kids were weird lol.

professorscience

I think it depends.  Some friends of ours adopted three siblings, and the oldest ended up being so terribly behind in school that they decided to pull him out and homeschool him to get him caught up.  If any of our children, adopted or not, had academic struggles, I might consider pulling that child out of school to give him more one-on-one attention.

I'm a huge supporter of public education.  I always say I don't want to work at a school I wouldn't send my kids to (although I also don't know if I would want my kids in school with me).  I do like the idea of our kids getting faith formation in school, though.  We might try to do what my ILs did with their older two kids, which was Catholic school until middle school (or maybe just elementary for one of them, I can't remember), and then public school for HS.  It'll also depend on where we're living by the time our kids are school-aged.  If things go the way we want, we'll be in some foreign country and maybe we'll HAVE to homeschool.  

lv2011

My daugher goes to Catholic school. She's 9. It's a struggle with the cost, but we make it work because public education in this area is pretty hit or miss at the administrative level (and that, of course, trickles down to the kids). I think that if we couldn't make Catholic schooling work financially, I'd definitely do homeschooling, but I'd make sure she gets plenty of social interaction through extracurriculars. The homeschooled kids i knew were always doing really well academically, but seemed to struggle socially because they were always home.

ootmother2

It would have to be a pretty bad situation that would make me homeschool.  I think it's often quite a problem for the kids  socially.  Even if they are academically ahead, they don't mix with their peers well. (I think the same about putting kids ahead of their age group)

M went to Convent of the Sacred Heart as public school was out of the question at that time in NYC.  I didn't go there until Upper School.  It's an excellent school system,, much better than homeschooling and the girls are well taught socially as well as academically.

JMO

christinamarie325

I'm a lot like Resa.

I was home schooled all the way until college. I took dance classes, so I was social that way, and was involved in my church youth group. I loved being home schooled. I was finished with my work by 12:00pm, could breeze through the subjects I found easy, and take my time on the things I struggled with. I had a lot of time to myself to try new things. I liked that on a nice day I could go swimming at my aunt's house while other kids were stuck inside all day, because school doesn't let out until the end of June. 

The biggest reason my Mom chose to Home school myself and my 3 siblings, is because she wanted to raise us as good Catholics, and trusted herself the most to do that. My Mom was homes chooled after 5th grade because my grandmother had a lot of issues with her sons in public school. (it was the 60's and 70's)

Having been home schooled, I see a lot of perks as I mentioned above. There were some things my Mom did that I would do differently if I decide to home school my hopefully, future children. For High school, I started at the American School. They mail you text books, and exams, and you mail them back. This worked out pretty well, but I started to get stuck in Math. My Mom wasn't the best at it, and couldn't really answer my questions, and my Dad was not meant to be a teacher...I wound up procrastinating a lot, and got my GED in the end, because the American School was taking too long for my liking. My sister did the same, and graduated a year early as a result. 

I was terrified of college. I wasn't sure I wanted to go. I worried about being smart enough. I would up graduating with a 3.9 gpa, and am so happy my Mom pushed me. 

I learned HOW to learn while being home schooled. I had to be organized, and disciplined to get work done. I wasn't burnt out when I got to college, because it was new to me. Honestly, once I got into a rythm as school, it wasn't all that different than being home schooled. Home schooling just felt like the "homework" portion of college.

If I home school, I will get my kids the help they needs in subjects I might not be strong in. I will also let them get involved in other home school groups. I was never part of one, but my sister found a group, and had a lot of fun. 

With the internet, I think home schooling options will be greater by the time my theoretical children are old enough.

I don't think there is anything wrong with other schooling, as long as you don't shuffle your kids out the door and expect their teachers to do YOUR job. Just because children attend Catholic school doesn't mean there wont be people with un-Catholic ideas or values along side your kid. It's important to talk to kids, and see what they're learning and who their friends are, and to have a constant dialogue about your faith, ideals, values, morals, etc.

I also had people surprised I was home schooled. There are some socially awkward home schoolers out there, which I admit is a little scary.

erin5286

Not that I have anything against homeschooling, but I doubt I'd do it.  I have never wanted to be a teacher and I just don't think that would be my best role - I can definitely help with homework and the like, but being the teacher just wouldn't be ideal for me.  Plus, I like the idea of my kids having the social interaction of being with peers their own age - sure, it won't always be positive, but that's life and how we learn to interact with different people.

Of course public schools can vary, so I will just do my homework and find the best option in my area, whether it's public or private (assuming finances allow).  I myself was advanced in math, and my school allowed me to stay with my own grade for the majority of the day but had a private session or went to the older grades' class for math.  I liked that because I could be at my level for things I was advanced at, but still stay with my friends.

Obviously if one of my kids has a major problem like a learning disability, bullying, or something serious, I might re-think.  However, I would probably still go with a private school, other tutor, or some option besides home-schooling myself.

Resa77

Erin, that's totally reasonable.  Not everyone is cut out to teach, and it's a better thing to admit that than try to do it lol! 

I wouldn't send my kids to public schools around here.  They're apparently highly ranked in the nation, but they don't teach grammar, they don't teach spelling (it's "creative" spelling nowadays apparently), etc.  What's worse is they are anti-religion.  My nephew got in trouble for wearing an Ed Hardy-like T-shirt that had a graffit cross on it.  Not religious, really, but it's a "religious" symbol.  His classmate got in trouble several times because his Scapular peeked out of his shirt a couple times.  He was told he is NOT allowed to wear a Scapular to school.  It's just wrong.

That being said, I realize that's not all public school, so I wouldn't be opposed to any public school.  Just not the ones my nieces and nephews go to! 

lalaith50

I wouldn't mind homeschooling. It would all depend on our other options. Like how good the local Catholic schools were, if we could afford them, and how good the public school was. I'd be more reluctant to public school than DH is... maybe for high school, or maybe allowing them to make use of the music/sports/higher-level classes.

DH went to Catholic school his whole life, and even at his "pretty good" Catholic grade school, he remembers being told by one of the teachers that "abortion is ok in some circumstances." wtf?!

I think for me at least, it would be hard to trust the teachers at any school; to wonder if they're being taught anti-Catholic teachings like that at a Catholic school, you'd have to make sure you really talked with your kids alot and that you yourself taught them moral theology instead of trusting what the teacher said, but at least at public school you could prepare your kid to be particularly skeptical of things that were taught or at least demonstrated ("Rainbow week" or whatever), but you'd really have to be on top of what your kid was learning, and even the subtle but persistant messages they were receiving at school.

professorscience

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_tuesday-questions-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:67bc0636-469a-47ea-a731-b8a66c4d09aaPost:9be404ec-455d-4ca5-a351-62e7d3b82d06">Re: Tuesday Questions</a>:
[QUOTE]Erin, that's totally reasonable.  Not everyone is cut out to teach, and it's a better thing to admit that than try to do it lol!  I wouldn't send my kids to public schools around here.  They're apparently highly ranked in the nation, but they don't teach grammar, they don't teach spelling (it's "creative" spelling nowadays apparently), etc.  What's worse is they are anti-religion.  My nephew got in trouble for wearing an Ed Hardy-like T-shirt that had a graffit cross on it.  Not religious, really, but it's a "religious" symbol.  His classmate got in trouble several times because his Scapular peeked out of his shirt a couple times.  He was told he is NOT allowed to wear a Scapular to school.  It's just wrong. That being said, I realize that's not all public school, so I wouldn't be opposed to any public school.  Just not the ones my nieces and nephews go to! 
Posted by Resa77[/QUOTE]

<div>It's unfortunate that we live in a society where people are so likely to sue over petty little things.  We actually spent a class session one day in college where the teacher really drove home the message that, as a teacher, we could be sued for anything.  While most lawsuits against schools/teachers are usually dismissed, the legal fees could ruin a school or teacher.  We're reaching a point where, in trying to protect the rights of all students (edit: and ourselves), we end up suppressing their ability to express themselves.</div><div>
</div><div>It's weird, though, because if you talk to kids (at least this has been my experience), they are almost completely unaffected by the silliness of political correctness going on all around them.  The students I taught came from all over the world, belonged to all kinds of different faiths, and they all managed to get along without getting their feelings hurt over the presence of a religious symbol.  In fact, they've learned more about world cultures just from knowing each other than I ever did in high school or college.</div>

texasbride0617

I probably wouldn't homeschool for a lot of the reasons others have already said. I really love the idea, but I think I'd be too impatient, I really am excited about starting my career in law and don't think that I want to give it up when I have children, and I want my kids to be exposed to different things... so I hope to send them to public school. (FI and all his family went to Catholic school K-college, though, so I'm sure that will be a super fun pre cana conversation.) I suppose this depends on where we end up when we have a family, though, since schools are so different everywhere. I just can't imagine spending all that money on K-12 education! FI's high school cost more than my [public, but still great, if I do say so myself] college education!

I guess I'm also not as concerned with sending my kids to Catholic school because I didn't have that experience, and as far as I can tell I've turned out okay I think what counts is what you teach your kids at home, especially leading by example! (...we'll see how I feel about all of this when we have kids, though.)

caitriona87

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_tuesday-questions-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:67bc0636-469a-47ea-a731-b8a66c4d09aaPost:9be404ec-455d-4ca5-a351-62e7d3b82d06">Re: Tuesday Questions</a>:
[QUOTE]  My nephew got in trouble for wearing an Ed Hardy-like T-shirt that had a graffit cross on it.  Not religious, really, but it's a "religious" symbol.  His classmate got in trouble several times because his Scapular peeked out of his shirt a couple times.  He was told he is NOT allowed to wear a Scapular to school.  
Posted by Resa77[/QUOTE]

Isn't this illegal?

Re: my feelings on schooling I pretty much ditto lalaith. We are considering homeschooling but my reservations are kind of different than other people’s. I actually don’t worry about the social aspect at all because a) my sister homeschools and her kids are really normal and b) there are several really large homeschooling groups in our area that, especially for higher grades, include some classroom instruction with regular teachers etc as a supplement. <p class="MsoNormal"> My hesitations about homeschooling have more to do with being afraid that I would lack the discipline and structure that I’d like to have…like, I hate the thought of my kids rolling out of bed at 9 or 10, doing school in PJ’s, etc. I know it’s possible to avoid that, but I doubt my own ability to do so. I have thought taking them to Mass every day, as there are 8, 8:30, and 9am options near us….but I have a hard enough time getting there just me. </p> <p class="MsoNormal"> I’ve also seen some tendencies (not in my sister but in some of the families she knows through homeschooling) to be really lax about things…like, families will commit to doing a science fair, for example, and then just never get around to the projects and skip it, or they’ll show up an hour or two late to things. Again I know this isn’t inevitable, but it seems like it’s much easier to slide into when you’re not beholden to a school’s schedule. </p>

Tami87

We don't really plan to homeschool our future children, but I guess we will see what the schools are like where we live when our kids our school age. I also think that I would not be that great of a teacher, and FI who has a masters of education in school counseling would be the one who would be far more likely to be the parent to stay home and teach. However, I do agree that if I had a child with special needs that were not being met at a public or Catholic school, homeschooling could be the best option.

I went to a good public school in a fairly well-off suburb, so I feel pretty positive about public schools from my personal experience, although I realize not all of them are so great. I took advanced classes or AP credit for areas I was ahead of my peers in, and I was often in classes with kids a grade or two above me. As pervious posters mentioned if I were to homeschool there are many things I would feel that my kids would miss out on. I was involved in band, drama club, played on the school volleyball and softball teams, took foreign language classes etc. I knew of some kids who were homeschooled that came to my school just for band class, but it was much more difficult for them to make friends since they were only at school with us for an hour a day.

FI went to Catholic school K-12 and his high school was all boys. He feels very strongly about the value of a Catholic education and I know that he would prefer to send our kids to a Catholic school if we can afford to do so. We will have to see where we end up and what the schools are like. Either way I agree that it is important for parents to be involved in their children's education.

Resa77

Tami, I agree that parents need to be involved, and that's more important than what school your kids attend.  You could send your kids to Catholic school, but they still need your example  and guidance in their faith development, for example. 

Resa77

I also want to point out that no one else has asked a question.....

Calypso1977

if i had kids and opted to be a SAHM, id probably homeschool K-8 and then send them to a catholic high school or a decent secular private school.  if i had kids and wasnt a SAHM, then id send them to private or catholic school for all years.  id personally never put my child in a public school for a variety of reasons not all necessarily related to the quality of education.

my niece and nephews are homeschooled and have no issues at all with interacting wtih their peers.  they also get along very well with adults, somethign many kids today cant do because so much of "socialization" is only focused around socialization with the immediate peer group.   my niece and nephews have never displayed the usual shyness or uncomfortable feelings around adults or older children that you often see in "socialized" children.

caitriona87

I asked an incidental question, lol...but I was really asking. I was under the impression that it was illegal for a school to restrict students' free speech (especially in the form of clothing etc) unless it's truly disruptive or profane.

texasbride0617

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_tuesday-questions-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:67bc0636-469a-47ea-a731-b8a66c4d09aaPost:9d41641f-7311-4cf6-865f-52561911cad2">Re: Tuesday Questions</a>:
[QUOTE]I asked an incidental question, lol...but I was really asking. I was under the impression that it was illegal for a school to restrict students' free speech (especially in the form of clothing etc) unless it's truly disruptive or profane.
Posted by caitriona87[/QUOTE]

<div>Ugh. I should know the answer to this as it was the subject of our journal write-on in school. All I can remember is that students do not shed their Constitutional rights at the school yard gate... but also, they have limited rights within school. </div><div>
</div><div>I think technically you're right, schools can only prohibit things that are truly disruptive or profane (Supreme Court has said it's OK for school to prohibit free speech by censoring the school newspaper, or to suspend a kid for giving a speech wrought with sexual innuendo) under the protection of free speech... </div><div>
</div><div>I'd imagine that if you tried to sue the school for telling a kid he can't wear a t-shirt with a cross on it, you'd get a settlement pretty quickly. But then you'd also just be adding to the mass of litigation against schools. My guess is that there are just some educators/schools/administrators that are overly cautious, and unless someone asserts their rights, they aren't going to proactively let their guard down?</div>

bibliophile2010

My sense is that the scapular should be totally legal -- a lawsuit would probably settle that matter pretty quickly. Religious items (headscarves, cross necklaces, whatever) are pretty settled as always okay around here.

The t-shirt would probably be totally dependent on the school's dress code and its wording. Dress codes are pretty much 100% ok (they advance the legitimate educational purpose of getting kids to focus on school not clothes) -- more and more public schools are even going to simple uniforms (navy pants/shorts and a solid colored polo, for example). If the dress code is worded to prohibit "distracting" designs or words/designs/messages at all, then it could be a long, nasty court battle that no one really wants to fight. On the other hand, if there is no dress code, he is perfectly within both his free speech rights and his freedom of religion rights, IMO.

As for the original question, I would only homeschool if I lived in a very rural area with no option but terrible public schools or homeschooling. I believe really passionately in education, and I think you learn a lot from interacting with other people, hearing other ideas, etc. The parents' job is to be a child's first teacher, but it is important to me that my children learn to hear other voices/dissenting opinions/etc. and respond to them, hopefully as intelligent, faithful, well-catechized Catholics who actually know their faith and how to apply its principles to the outside world (at an age appropriate level, of course).

On the other hand, I have very serious concerns about current public education policies. There are places where it shines, and lots and lots of places where it does not deliver. That's a rant for another time.

H and I hope to send our children to Catholic school. It might mean sacrifice, but it is really worth it to us. If things go according to our current plan (and they always do, right?!?), things will align just right for DD to start kinder at the school attached to the nearby parish we love (both the parish and the school).

lalaith50

Haha, Resa... that's cuz we all really liked your question! 

Resa77

Other posters are correct that schools are allowed to enforce a dresscode, and also that children aren't 100% covered by free speech when it comes to school.  This particular school has a dress code which requires that no religious symbols may be worn, whether as a piece of jewelry or printed on a shirt.  They claim it's because they have to limit anything that might be a gang symbol.  I don't know why a scapular is a gang symbol, but oh well!

And Lalaith -- I'm glad you liked the question   You should start thinking of one for next week!!!

Calypso1977

scapulars are worn under your clothes, so im not sure how this could even be an issue?

Resa77

Because the kid's scapular was constantly peaking out of his shirt (you know how kids are, moving around all the time and stuff), so the teacher had asked him several times to tuck it back in.  Eventually she took it away and gave it back at the end of the day, and asked him not to wear it again.

newlyseliski

I fail at actually participating in discussions on time

I find myself a bit unsure on this topic... I don't think I'd mind homeschooling, but would probably only do so if the public school system near where we end up is hopelessly horrendous and/or is intent on cramming a morally offensive worldview down my impressionable child(rens) throat(s).  The catholic schools in the my area are pretty expensive, so I'm not sure if we could swing the cost if I were a SAHM.  If I did send my kids to catholic school, I'd only do so through elementary school as I'd ultimately prefer to do more catachesis at home.  I really liked being able to take AP classes at my public high school as they knocked off 34 credits worth of my college generals!  Ultimately, I want my children in yet not of the world... I'm not sure how that balance will happen yet... as long as they're feisty little evangelists that love and defend their faith, I'll be a happy mom.

Resa77

It's a shame that some Catholic schools are so expensive.  Mine wasn't that bad, and they had a discountsfor bigger families.  We had families that didn't pay for 2 or 3 kids because they had such big families.  I would prefer to send my kids to a small, humble Catholic school rather than some fancy place anyway.

christyhal

I just popped in to ask an NFP question, but I had to answer this because I was homeschooled myself.  

I was way ahead of my classes in middle school and bored enough that I was purposely answering questions wrong on tests to avoid being singled out for perfect scores by a particular teacher who was not very nice.  My parents pulled me out and decided to homeschool (they also homeschooled the rest of my siblings from this point forward).  I was homeschooled through high school, and I graduated at age 16.

I would NOT homeschool my kids, for high school particularly.  While I was able to participate in extra curricular activities through the local high school, I had no opportunity to compete for scholarships or academic prizes, or class rank through the school.  My diploma was from Seton Home Study School, a regularly - accredited program with a physical location in Virginia, that did mail-order (sent me the books and exams, I sent back assignments, etc.)  and despite graduating with a 4.0+, colleges weren't impressed that I had no academic extra curricular notes on my transcript (those were all tied to classes at the high school and weren't something I could participate in) and I wasn't offered scholarships by any colleges I applied to.  The kids who'd been through 'regular' school simply had more impressive transcripts.  I also didn't have access to the college-search and financial-aid-search resources that the high school made available to attending students.  (And at 16, was pretty clueless on how to locate this info on my own.)

My parents had no college fund for me, and didn't foot any of the bill, so I have what is essentially a mortgage to the student loan people.  If I'd had an inkling of any of this at the time, I'd have gladly spent the extra two years bored in public school in exchange for the ability to qualify for scholarships and other college funding.

Anyone wanting to homeschool their kids for high school should seriously take the college funding situation into consideration first.  There is a good chance that your kids will not have the same opportunity and access to college resources as their public school peers.  I think you have to be willing to make up the difference yourself - whether that means helping them pay for school if they aren't eligible for scholarships, or doing more legwork to locate alternative sources of funding that won't leave them (or you, if you're paying) with multiple tens of thousands of dollars in extra loans.

(Academically, homeschooling did not hurt my ability to get accepted into the colleges I wanted, at all.  Only my ability to get funding to attend, which determined where I could actually afford to go.  Which was ultimately a community college.  And once you've been there, you're a transfer student at any 4 year school, and there's almost no non-loan funding for anyone in that situation, regardless of where you went to high school.)

Sorry for the long post, but I feel very strongly about this (as you can probably tell) and I feel like this issue never gets addressed from this angle.  

Riss91

christy - would you recommend homeschooling through elementary/middle school?

Resa77

Christy -- FWIW, I had a 4.0 in HS, was involved in dance, theatre, and student gov, and was an officer in the NHS.  Oh, and I was 5th in my class.  I didn't get ANY scholarships I applied for, and wasn't eligible for any financial aid because of my parents' income (which wasn't even very high considering how many kids they have).  I feel your pain!!!!  Also, I took 2 Seton Home Study math courses...small world!!!

Riss91

And to add my perspective:

I don't feel like this is a topic that can be spoken in absolution - there are too many variables. Depending on the public schools in our area, I wouldn't be opposed to sending my children to a public school. I went through the public school system and did relatively well - we had some amazing teachers in high school especially. My husband was in Catholic school through 6th grade. The area he lived in was not very great and the public schools were dangerous at the time, so it made sense. He didn't have the option of homeschooling as his mother was a single-working-mom.

I think that homeschooling can be the best option in certain circumstances, and I wouldn't be opposed to it - but I think it is a very difficult task to take on. Though I do not think it is ideal for K-12 in its entirety, it can be done successfullly, with a lot of work on the parents' end to ensure their children are being given the exposure they would be missing out on in a public/private school environment. Looking back, I wish I had been pulled out of school in middle school. It was a really unproductive and socially hostile environment. I think that age is really awkward and, at least in the area I grew up in, the curriculum wasn't really that great (or maybe it was the teachers). I felt like nothing was really accomplished in those years, except for the emotional scars of being teased. I don't think much was learned during that period of time. I know my immediate family/friends agree.

We have a Catholic school that is affiliated with our Church, that was grown out of the many families that homeschooled.... they joined forces and created a school together. I think that is a great option for those that are not comfortable with their public schools. Especially if faith is being attacked and suppressed.

christyhal

I could recommend homeschooling in the elementary/middle school years in the right situation.  It really depends on the 'traditional' schools that are available to you.  I think if you're in a school that has a good curriculum and teachers, and you aren't in a hostile environment, and your child doesn't have a particular need the school can't meet, the benefits of social development and access to school resources outweigh the benefits of parents having full control over the child's learning - as long as mom and dad are taking responsibility for establishing a strong moral foundation at home!

If your local schools are problematic (for whatever reason), then homeschooling in the younger years can definitely be beneficial.  I would say though that the parents would need to make sure that the kids have sufficient socialization (two of my siblings that were homeschooled K-12 did not, and they're...well...awkward is one way to put it) and activities to participate in with kids of the appropriate age group.  

I would also recommend going with an established, accredited school program (like Seton or another similar type) where you are accountable to the school for assignments and there is a defined curriculum.  I've unfortunately seen a couple of cases where the parents made up the curriculum on their own, and the kids missed out on certain subject areas because they just weren't the parents' strong point.  Also, I think if there's not a third party you're held accountable to, the temptation can be too great to just let things slide.  (The legal requirements for homeschooling vary state to state, though - some states require you to document the curriculum you are teaching your children, some require an annual evaluation by an accredited teacher, some have no requirements at all.)  I think it is important to maintain a good curriculum even at home, particularly to ease the transition into high school at a 'traditional' school.