"Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*)

ootmother2

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pick-and-choose-catholic-potentially-hot-topic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:72e62bbd-5610-43a0-9b7d-180f71dc3455Post:922a2ea9-1b78-4325-aada-bae6121cea50">Re:quot;Pick and Choosequot; Catholic Potentially Hot Topic</a>:
[QUOTE]I think it's impossinle to agree with EVERYTHING you are taught, regardless if we are talking about religion, what your parents tell you, your political party, etc. I believe it's natural to question or challenge things we are taught and maybe even not agree in the end. There have been times I refer back to what I was taught by my parents and by the Church growing up as being "right" or "wrong" in my life when facing difficult choices.  I know there are some topics that I feel strongly about that the Church has taken stands on. I don't think it would help me or other Catholics to have to leave the Church or be turned away because I don't agree with everything 100%. I look at my religion as my foundation, as the base for what my life began on. I think as I have grown up and matured, I have developed my own opinions even if it's not 100% what I was taught at one point. 
Posted by Eliz77[/QUOTE]

You and Riss should go into writing together!

other than the fact that you haven't answered my PM yet

agapecarrie

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pick-and-choose-catholic-potentially-hot-topic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72e62bbd-5610-43a0-9b7d-180f71dc3455Post:49ac7904-ba0f-4fbf-8e7e-f73c8b423667">Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*)</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*) : OK, I understand, I just don't agree. Pre-martial relations and adultery should be a concern and frowned upon, that I do agree with. I don't lump homosexuality in that category. I'm not challenging the Church to change their ways or what not. Just saying I personally do not feel the same way and no amount of reading, debating or teaching will change my mind. I also feel it wouldn't be necessary or beneficial to me to leave the Church because I feel differently on this matter. 
Posted by Eliz77[/QUOTE]

<div>How do you know it won't change your mind? If you are correct about it, than your opinion will stand up to any argument presented...so why not be open to that? What could it hurt? It will only confirm what you believe..</div><div>
</div><div>But it could also maybe,...just maybe, give you another perspective that you haven't even heard of before.</div><div>
</div><div>I use to be for women's ordination, didn't really care about homosexual issues, didnt' care about contraception issues. THen I did some studying because I was challenged on my viewpoints...it takes humility, but it really needs to be done. I learned a lot about what I didn't know I didn't know. </div>

agapecarrie

Also...I know of people with pornography addictions...that doesn't mean I have to approve of the behavior, or "change" the morality into thinking its ok.

I know plenty of people that are alcoholics: disordered appetite/addiction. Doesnt' mean I normalize the behavior and encourage them to indulge and abuse it.

I know of several women who had abortions. That does not make it right, or that I need to change my thinking to think its ok, in order to love them. 

Approving of and encouraging sinful behavior is not loving or helpful. Sin is not sin because its some arbitrary rule put in place accidentally. It's sin because its harmful to ourselves. Pretending like its not (and even refusing to educate yourself about its harms when its offered to you) doesn't do anyone any favors. 

Eliz77

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pick-and-choose-catholic-potentially-hot-topic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72e62bbd-5610-43a0-9b7d-180f71dc3455Post:e608d6fa-7d64-4668-91cc-9d21159c3f8d">Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*)</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*) : How do you know it won't change your mind? If you are correct about it, than your opinion will stand up to any argument presented...so why not be open to that? What could it hurt? It will only confirm what you believe.. But it could also maybe,...just maybe, give you another perspective that you haven't even heard of before. I use to be for women's ordination, didn't really care about homosexual issues, didnt' care about contraception issues. THen I did some studying because I was challenged on my viewpoints...it takes humility, but it really needs to be done. I learned a lot about what I didn't know I didn't know. 
Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]
It won't change my mind because I view ALL people as equal. Some women like blondes. Some women like big butts. Some women like other women. I don't like blondes or big butts or other women. I respect that different people like or are attracted to different characteristics. That is how I know my opinion won't change. <div>
</div><div>Like I've said before, for ME personally, I am anti-BC, abortion and I am a heterosexual. That all works for me. I also believe a woman has the right to decide what is right for her, even if it's not right for me. And if she loves another woman, that is fine by me, Doesn't affect how I live my life or make me a lesser/better person. That is how I know my opinon/viewpoint won't change. I am so glad I feel as I do, and I will raise my future children to be open-minded and accepting of all people regardless of what path in life they choose. I feel it is our responsibility to ensure the future generations are better than ours, so I will start with my own children and preach acceptance and love towards all God's children.</div>

Eliz77

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pick-and-choose-catholic-potentially-hot-topic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72e62bbd-5610-43a0-9b7d-180f71dc3455Post:aae70355-1461-4723-9c39-a6f6090f485f">Re:quot;Pick and Choosequot; Catholic Potentially Hot Topic</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:quot;Pick and Choosequot; Catholic Potentially Hot Topic : You and Riss should go into writing together! other than the fact that you haven't answered my PM yet
Posted by ootmother2[/QUOTE]

<div>I wish this board would alert us to PM! PM'd you back!</div>

Riss91

I guess it is my right to change my mind? I found it very freeing to challenge all of those doctrines. I truly had no interest in altering my viewpoint. I wanted to prove the Church wrong and discredit it. That would make life more simple. I fought every step of the way. The thing is, part of being open minded is exploring those things that we feel we strongly disagree with and not shutting ourselves off to it. Also, if you feel you have a concrete set of beliefs, it should be helpful to you to read up on the faith. If your beliefs and opinions are strong, you will likely be strengthened by challenging them. For the record, the Church believes everyone is equal. No one here believes anyone should be treated poorly for any reason. Our first and most important job here is to love one another. Sometimes love is doing something that isn't easy or isn't popular.

lalaith50

[QUOTE]Just saying I personally do not feel the same way and <strong>no amount of reading, debating or teaching will change my mind.</strong> I also feel it wouldn't be necessary or beneficial to me to leave the Church because I feel differently on this matter. 
Posted by Eliz77[/QUOTE]
Why is this a good thing? Are you proud of the fact that you are stubborn? (Because, if "nothing" can change your mind, then that's precisely what you are being.) Shouldn't we *always* be constantly seeking to learn the Truth? 

Calypso1977

i honestly dont understand why if one is pro-life or believes that homosexuality is a sin that somehow they think that women who abort or same-sex couples are somehow not "equal".

my cousin actually told me the other night that she cant understand why someone like me, who is career driven and extremely independent feels like im less than a man.  i told her i dont think im less than a man, and she told me that because i was anti-abortion (and catholic!) that i think women are less equal to men.  i just dont see it.

bibliophile2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pick-and-choose-catholic-potentially-hot-topic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72e62bbd-5610-43a0-9b7d-180f71dc3455Post:49ac7904-ba0f-4fbf-8e7e-f73c8b423667">Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*)</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*) : OK, I understand, I just don't agree. Pre-martial relations and adultery should be a concern and frowned upon, that I do agree with. I don't lump homosexuality in that category. I'm not challenging the Church to change their ways or what not. <strong>Just saying I personally do not feel the same way and no amount of reading, debating or teaching will change my mind</strong>. I also feel it wouldn't be necessary or beneficial to me to leave the Church because I feel differently on this matter. 
Posted by Eliz77[/QUOTE]

I think this is fair. If you don't want your mind changed, you can stubbornly persist in that belief. However, what might change your mind is honest prayer on the matter and opening your heart to the Holy Spirit, letting him work and shape and mold your conscience. It is amazing what transformation God can accomplish when he is allowed to work in you. I know that He has done so for me.

Eliz77

And I feel I am opening my heart to all people who may feel differently than me, that I am acknowledging there are people from all walks of life, and that being respectful and accepting makes me a more open-minded person. That includes respecting the opinions of those here that are not open or receptive towards certain choices. I don't think I'm the stubborn one because I refuse to take a step backwards in believing people shouldn't be allowed to choose who they love or marry or what they want to do with their bodies. And of course, I'm talking about legal things, not talking about doing drugs or committing adultrey or what not. 

I truly believe I feel the way I do because of my faith. The Church may tell us one thing, but I believe God wants me to be open-minded and accepting of all people. And in my own way, I have reached this point through prayer as well. 

agapecarrie

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pick-and-choose-catholic-potentially-hot-topic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72e62bbd-5610-43a0-9b7d-180f71dc3455Post:14d2050d-fb5f-4277-9303-2813364594d8">Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*)</a>:
[QUOTE]And I feel I am opening my heart to all people who may feel differently than me, that I am acknowledging there are people from all walks of life, and that being respectful and accepting makes me a more open-minded person. That includes respecting the opinions of those here that are not open or receptive towards certain choices. I don't think I'm the stubborn one because I refuse to take a step backwards in believing people shouldn't be allowed to choose who they love or marry or what they want to do with their bodies. And of course, I'm talking about legal things, not talking about doing drugs or committing adultrey or what not.  I truly believe I feel the way I do because of my faith. The Church may tell us one thing, but I believe God wants me to be open-minded and accepting of all people. And in my own way, I have reached this point through prayer as well. <div>Posted by Eliz77[/QUOTE]

</div><div>Again, by believing sins are wrong is not "not opening your heart to people"</div><div>
</div><div>How come you don't think you're taking a step backward by thinking people shouldn't commit adultery or doing drugs" Why is THAT wrong, but not the other things? Why is murdering a child in the womb ok but adultery isn't?</div><div>
</div><div>By the way, by saying "I'm refusing to take a step backward" you have not "opened your heart" to those here who believe this. </div><div>
</div>

Eliz77

Because doing drugs is not just immoral. It's illegal. I disagree that same sex marriage is immoral, and it certainly is legal in places. That's all I am getting at by comparing the two because some posters on here have reverted to that as if they are in the same vein. For me personally, it would be a step back if I decided to renounce same sex relationships/marriages/ability to raise families. I respect that you feel otherwise. All I meant was you won't change my mind, I have yet to hear any facts or arguments for why we should not move forward to accepting marriages between all people-we have (for the most part) seen people move forward to accept mixed race/religion/cultural couples, so It is my hope same sex couples will one day be widely accepted as well. I'm always very happy when I see progress in this area.

Being open minded/hearted to me is accepting and respecting you have a different viewpoint even if I don't agree with you. No where in my posts did I say you (or anyone else) were wrong or immoral for not being accepting of other people's decisions when it's something you strongly don't agree with. That is your right. My point is I don't think it makes me a "pick and choose Catholic" or that I should leave the Church over things like this. 

Calypso1977

honestly, i know several catholics who are pro-gay marriage.  i can sort of get it and get where they are coming from. 

i will never understand pro-choice/pro-abortion catholics though.  i just cant.  Eliz, im guessing that you are the type of person who believes in standing up for people who cant stand up for themselves.  Is that an accurate assessment?  if so, then why wouldnt you be willing to stand up for the unborn?  you want women to "have control over their own bodies" but why does the body inside of her have no say?

Eliz77

Yes, it is a correct assessment. I do believe in standing up for those who are knocked down and bullied and told what they are feeling/doing is wrong.

Abortion is a topic I am afraid to broach on. I don't have any firsthand experience to share and I don't know what I feel. If you read my posts, I never once gave an opinion on that since I am still struggling with how I feel about it. I do talk about BC, but never about abortion. I realize many equate them as same topic of discussion, but I really don't discuss them as one. The sentimental person in me says, yes, it should have a voice, it is a baby. But the other part struggles with when is it a life and when is it a choice the mother can make? I just don't know. I hear both sides, and I hope it's one of those topics I never have to advise on. I do believe a woman reserves the right to decide what they want to do with their bodies, and that's as far as I can go right now.

Resa77

You know, I can kinda understand how someone would be okay with the morning-after pill and super early abortions, though I'm personally not.  But how can you NOT think it's a baby later on, when it CLEARLY looks like a baby?  (I'm saying "you" in general, FYI). 

And another thing...if women should have the right to choose what to do with her body, why is it illegal to commit suicide?  Why are drugs illegal?  These are two clear examples of our society NOT believing that we should choose whatever we want to do with our bodies.

Calypso1977

and on that same thread, Resa - why is prostitution (outside of nevada) illegal?  if a woman wants to use her body to earn income and "isnt hurting anyone" then why is that bad? 

agapecarrie

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pick-and-choose-catholic-potentially-hot-topic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72e62bbd-5610-43a0-9b7d-180f71dc3455Post:8fb21127-c131-4b5d-86ea-920d7ab40a24">Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*)</a>:
[QUOTE]Because doing drugs is not just immoral. It's illegal. I disagree that same sex marriage is immoral, and it certainly is legal in places. That's all I am getting at by comparing the two because some posters on here have reverted to that as if they are in the same vein. For me personally, it would be a step back if I decided to renounce same sex relationships/marriages/ability to raise families. I respect that you feel otherwise. All I meant was you won't change my mind, I have yet to hear any facts or arguments for why we should not move forward to accepting marriages between all people-we have (for the most part) seen people move forward to accept mixed race/religion/cultural couples, so It is my hope same sex couples will one day be widely accepted as well. I'm always very happy when I see progress in this area. Being open minded/hearted to me is accepting and respecting you have a different viewpoint even if I don't agree with you. No where in my posts did I say you (or anyone else) were wrong or immoral for not being accepting of other people's decisions when it's something you strongly don't agree with. That is your right. My point is I don't think it makes me a "pick and choose Catholic" or that I should leave the Church over things like this. 
Posted by Eliz77[/QUOTE]

<div>So you let the government determine your morality for you, but not Christ's church, His bride? Is that what you are saying? You are putting man's laws above God's laws.</div><div>
</div><div>You say you have yet to hear facts and arguments...but in the same breath you are saying no amount of reading will change your mind. So you aren't going to hear the facts and arguments if you're not even bothering to listen. </div>

Eliz77

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pick-and-choose-catholic-potentially-hot-topic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72e62bbd-5610-43a0-9b7d-180f71dc3455Post:e2837792-f1b1-4d5b-abca-1c343aac8d54">Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*)</a>:
[QUOTE]You know, I can kinda understand how someone would be okay with the morning-after pill and super early abortions, though I'm personally not.  But how can you NOT think it's a baby later on, when it CLEARLY looks like a baby?  (I'm saying "you" in general, FYI).  And another thing...if women should have the right to choose what to do with her body, why is it illegal to commit suicide?  Why are drugs illegal?  These are two clear examples of our society NOT believing that we should choose whatever we want to do with our bodies.
Posted by Resa77[/QUOTE]

<div>Oh I agree completely there...like you said, morning after pills or early abortions Vs late term, no comparision there. For the longest time, my stance was there are certain incidents, like rape, and I still believe that, but I also wonder when you can say it's murder...and I do believe once it has a heartbeat it is a baby, even though some will debate it's a fetus until it takes it's first breath, which is I suppose why abortion is still legal. For now.  </div><div>
</div><div>I think you propose good questions. I don't view using illegal drugs the same way I view taking BC because while both can be harmful, they affect people in different manners. Most of the time we can pick out drug users, not to stereotype, but the whole culture that goes along with using heroin or crack or whatever can be dangerous not just to that individual but innocent bystanders who can be harmed. On the other hand, using BC may be harmful to that particular woman, but who will know she takes BC, and who else is she harming? Same deal as same-sex marriages. Yes, there are stereptypes about gay men spreading AIDS from unprotected sex, but the same goes for teenagers or poor people or even people who abuse drugs. </div><div>
</div><div>To give an example that illustrates my above opinion: that same sex married couple I know adopted two babies who were born addicted to heroin (the 2nd baby was born in a prison hospital). Their mother who proclaimed she couldn't use BC or have an abortion due to being raised Catholic yet figured it was OK to have premartial sex with multiple partners resulting in five children who were all taken into foster care, and she herself has been in and out of prison after committing many crimes while high on drugs-robbery and assault. Now I am in NO WAY saying those children would be better off not having been born or should've been aborted, but this is an example of why I feel using drugs IS more morally wrong and should be considered illegal over same sex marriages between two consenting adults or a woman's right to pro-choice. </div><div>
</div><div>Thank you for posing this question! It actually made me think more and realize where my beliefs come from. I aways enjoy a good debate that makes me think!</div>

Eliz77

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pick-and-choose-catholic-potentially-hot-topic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72e62bbd-5610-43a0-9b7d-180f71dc3455Post:e39cac7c-85ab-40c5-af13-e281eebee08e">Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*)</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*) :  You say you have yet to hear facts and arguments...but in the same breath you are saying no amount of reading will change your mind. So you aren't going to hear the facts and arguments if you're not even bothering to listen. 
Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]
How about I re-word my statement since you like to keep bringing it up...how about: I cannot imagine what it would take to change my mind on these matters. I do research and read whatever comes my way on such topics. I enjoy a good debate where there are two sides to challenge what my opinions are, but I do feel as strongly in my beliefs as you do in yours, and I have yet to hear an argument that makes me question what I believe.

ootmother2

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pick-and-choose-catholic-potentially-hot-topic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:72e62bbd-5610-43a0-9b7d-180f71dc3455Post:3aad5948-b1bf-4bbb-87fa-2850121de575">Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*)</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*) : How about I re-word my statement since you like to keep bringing it up...how about: I cannot imagine what it would take to change my mind on these matters. I do research and read whatever comes my way on such topics. I enjoy a good debate where there are two sides to challenge what my opinions are, but I do feel as strongly in my beliefs as you do in yours, and I have yet to hear an argument that makes me question what I believe.
Posted by Eliz77[/QUOTE]

oh come on, Eliz.  You don't actually expect agape to listen to you, do you?  She pontificates because there is only one side to a discussion.  Hers

agapecarrie

No, OOT. It's the church's, not mine. As you've been told countless times here. I only argue church teaching. 

Eliz,

Why is the baby not a baby if he/she was conceived in a rape? How does the abortion help anyone? The mother is traumatized not only by the rape but by the abortion.

By the way, my birth mother has some emotional illnesses, so there could be a question to whether she had full consent. So basically you are arguing that my birth mother should have been able to kill me if she wanted. 

These are real human beings we are talking about. Not abstract tissue.  Why do you get to decide that the heartbeat makes it a life? It's all so arbitrary. I'm not getting your argument. You say the babies should not have been aborted in the above scenario, but then a woman has a right to do it. 

ABC is harmful to MORE than the woman. It's harmful to the baby it can abort. It's harmful to the environment and fish with the hormones in the water. It's harmful to other women and men who have to drink the water. It's harmful because its destructive to marriages, the domestic church, and family, which in turn hurts the community. 

Just like every prayer has a ripple effect and effects the whole world, so does every single smallest sin. It effects way more than just the person sinning. 

ootmother2

OMG!  Save the fish!

Eliz77

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pick-and-choose-catholic-potentially-hot-topic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72e62bbd-5610-43a0-9b7d-180f71dc3455Post:271a46eb-d7af-4ea0-962c-6379554a1f14">Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*)</a>:
[QUOTE]OMG!  Save the fish!
Posted by ootmother2[/QUOTE]
:-) I know....<div>
</div><div>agape...if you actually read my posts you would see I have admitted I am conflicted on the subject and don't really know what I feel about pro-life versus pro-choice because there are so many sides here. I also said I USED to feel in incident of rape...Please take note that I did not say I believe abortion is ONLY right in that case. Please also note that I said in my post that I do not think the babies my friends' adopted should have been aborted despite the many factors against them thanks to their biological mother. They suffer from developmental challanges and have been sick more than not thanks to their biological mother's heroin addiction. Yet they are very loved and well adjusted children. I am very glad they are a family and every time I am around them, I feel more strongly that it is the best situation for the four of them. </div><div>
</div><div>I'm sure in your own marriage (you are married, right?) and in bringing up kids or will bring up kids, you'll be able to share your experiences and will shape them as you feel is correct. I plan to do  the same for my children-I will baptize them, hopefully teach them to be morally upstanding citizens in our community and I will encourage them form their own opinions. Hopefully, I'll never have to deal with BC, abortion or premartial sex conversations with them, and if I do, hopefully I am able to guide them towards decisions they can live with.</div>

lalaith50

http://scienceline.org/2011/11/there-must-be-something-in-the-water/

I'm pretty sure God commanded that we as humans be good stewards of the earth, and polluting the environment with hormonal toxins is not the way to do that. What becomes obvious in fish is also affecting humans, so do a little research before you laugh.

Eliz77

You are right. Synthetic hormones can have a negative impact on the environment. So can antibiotics and caffeine. I don't take BC, but I do drink coffee/coke on a regular basis and use antibiotics as needed, so therefore I contribute to harming the fish too, I suppose. 

This thread has gone WAY off topic...

Resa77

Eliz, I think you misunderstood me.  I wasn't talking about BC when I brought up the example of drugs.  I was talking about abortion.  Can you respond to the drug example in terms of how with abortion, a woman has such rights over her body that she is allowed to choose to end another's life, but an individual should not be allowed rights over his/her body to use drugs?  You went into an example of how drugs harm others -- for instance, babies born addicted.  But don't you think killing them is just as bad, if not worse, than exposing them to drugs in utero?  

afrenchprincess

I'm Catholic and I don't agree with all the chuch's teaching. Nobody can tell me I'm not Catholic. I always like to find out information and research the reasonings behind many of the church's teachings. Many times I was not informed or had misinformation. I inform myself and then I make a decision based on what I have learned. I also make a decision based upon my faith and beliefs. I feel that there is nothing wrong with challenging or going against the church or simply "accepting" things just because they are.
When you challenge beliefs, doctorines and etc. you can be a vehilcle for change. Which is something that is still needed in the Catholic Church. Obviously, people went along with the molestation of children for years because nobody wanted to speak up! (I know this is different from what we are discussing but it's a point)There were many who agreed with slavery based purley on "religious, biblical beliefs" which obviously was a bunch of crap!I
People need to stop worrying about what people pick or choose to believe in with their journey with faith and worry about themselves and what that means for them.

manjermj

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pick-and-choose-catholic-potentially-hot-topic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:72e62bbd-5610-43a0-9b7d-180f71dc3455Post:6d748260-bda6-4ed3-8de1-92f5bb6cd810">Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*)</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm Catholic and I don't agree with all the chuch's teaching. Nobody can tell me I'm not Catholic. I always like to find out information and research the reasonings behind many of the church's teachings. Many times I was not informed or had misinformation. I inform myself and then I make a decision based on what I have learned. I also make a decision based upon my faith and beliefs. I feel that there is nothing wrong with challenging or going against the church or simply "accepting" things just because they are. When you challenge beliefs, doctorines and etc. you can be a vehilcle for change. Which is something that is still needed in the Catholic Church. Obviously, people went along with the molestation of children for years because nobody wanted to speak up! (I know this is different from what we are discussing but it's a point)There were many who agreed with slavery based purley on "religious, biblical beliefs" which obviously was a bunch of crap!I <strong>People need to stop worrying about what people pick or choose to believe in with their journey with faith and worry about themselves and what that means for them.</strong>
Posted by afrenchprincess[/QUOTE]

^This! Doesn't the Bible teach us to not judge one another??
<p><strong>Romans 14:12-13 </strong></p><p> <em>So then each of us will give an account of himself to God. Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother.
</em></p>Instead of passing judgement, we should be encouraging to one another. Instead of just telling someone they are wrong, try to understand why someone may have the belief that they have and offer information to help them understand why the Church teaches what it does. Also, accept the fact that some people are just never going to fully agree with the Churches teachings. That's life. But also know that some people's beliefs will change and evolve over time. Not everyone finds the Church and Christ so easily. Everyone has their own journey.

chelseamb11

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pick-and-choose-catholic-potentially-hot-topic?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72e62bbd-5610-43a0-9b7d-180f71dc3455Post:57ef3db1-a12d-4c26-bacc-dddd75206347">Re: "Pick and Choose" Catholic (*Potentially Hot Topic*)</a>:
[QUOTE]Yes, it is a correct assessment. I do believe in standing up for those who are knocked down and bullied and told what they are feeling/doing is wrong. Abortion is a topic I am afraid to broach on. I don't have any firsthand experience to share and I don't know what I feel. If you read my posts, I never once gave an opinion on that since I am still struggling with how I feel about it. I do talk about BC, but never about abortion. I realize many equate them as same topic of discussion, but I really don't discuss them as one. The sentimental person in me says, yes, it should have a voice, it is a baby. But the other part struggles with when is it a life and when is it a choice the mother can make? I just don't know. I hear both sides, and I hope it's one of those topics I never have to advise on. <strong>I do believe a woman reserves the right to decide what they want to do with their bodies, and that's as far as I can go right now.</strong>
Posted by Eliz77[/QUOTE]

So you're pro choice then.  Which really illustrates what the original post was talking about: if you don't believe what the Church teaches, then why are you a part of it?

There are some teachings of the Church that I, quite honestly, don't like.  I had a REALLY hard time accepting them.  But I always view it like this.  God is our Father.  We, as humans, are teenagers.  Parents often have "rules" about how you, as a teenager, should live.  Do you always do it?  No.  Do you always like it? Of course not.  But to jump out of my metaphor and hop into real life, ALL of the things my parents "ruled" me with as a teenager and I hated, I now agree with.  Parents just know more than you do as a teenager.  And it's very hard for teenagers to blindly trust something like that.  But a part of faith is having that blind trust because you know that God knows better.

As for the judging.  God did/does the judging, not us humans.  Not once have I ever said "oh she's going to hell because she had an abortion".  I know that God says abortion is wrong, which inherently makes it wrong.  I can say abortion is wrong until I'm blue in the face.  I can find it wrong that my little brothers are both having premarital sex with their girlfriends.  But I wasn't the one who judged those things to be wrong.  God did.  I'm just passing along the message if I say anything.  Don't shoot the messenger ;)

caitriona87

In my mind this comes down to a very simple, single question—authority. Does the Church or does She not have teaching authority given by Christ? If She does, then the only logical response is to assent to Her teaching—all of it—because it is true. If She does not, there is no reason to assent to ANY teaching based on Her authority, including the (at the moment) non-controversial ones such as forgiveness of sins, divinity of Christ, etc—which have seen their day as far as being “divisive” and “outdated” (see: Jansenism, Arianism.) Her teaching on the meaning of sex happens to be the least popular at this time in history, but it has not always been so and will not always be so in the future. One thing I love about the Church is that She offers us a much broader perspective than we could ever hope to have by being the product of our age alone.
 

Obviously assent does not equal compliance as we all fall short, even of the teachings that we know deeply to be true.