Questions for Brides Having Catholic and Hindu Ceremonies

laurlaur414

Do you have (or will have) Hindu and Catholic ceremonies?

Did you throw them on the same day? same weekend? or a couple days, weeks, or even months apart from each other?

Did it matter which came first? Which one did you have (or will you have) first?

Was your Catholic priest receptive to you participating in both ceremonies?

Thanks!!

agapecarrie

In order to have a valid catholic marriage, you can't have another religious ceremony.

Can.  1127 

§3. It is forbidden to have another religious celebration of the same marriage to give or renew matrimonial consent before or after the canonical celebration according to the norm of §1. Likewise, there is not to be a religious celebration in which the Catholic who is assisting and a non-Catholic minister together, using their own rites, ask for the consent of the parties.

ootmother2

I know that you can't have other religious ceremonies other than the Catholic one but there are some aspect of a Hindu wedding that you can use.

Have a Mandap, the canopy with 4 pillars for the ceremony, it's just decorative.

Your new MIL can do Griha Pravesh (sp?) where she invites you into the new home.  You can do Pheri (sp? again) by going with your new H to visit your family the day after the wedding.

Short of having your FI riding to the ceremony on an elephant, I can't really think of anything else that the Church would allow.

Good luck working on this!

Riss91

agape - question for you! A friend of mine was married last year. He had a Catholic ceremony early in the day (which only the BP and parents were invited to and which most of the guests weren't aware of). Later that day they had a Jewish wedding ceremony. This was the ceremony that the entire guest list was invited to and aware of. Does this go against what you mentioned above? I was really uncomfortable with how they sort of hid the Catholic ceremony from the guests, but I'm wondering if there is something more serious here.

If they did violate that rule, how would a Catholic/Jewish couple go about having their wedding recognized by both churches? Thanks in advance!

Oh - and sorry for the hijack, OP!!

Calypso1977

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_questions-brides-having-catholic-hindu-ceremonies?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:788f8aa7-6a1b-460e-b811-00b9948698b2Post:7739bf09-b246-48b3-b654-0546f862574f">Re: Questions for Brides Having Catholic and Hindu Ceremonies</a>:
[QUOTE]agape - question for you! A friend of mine was married last year. He had a Catholic ceremony early in the day (which only the BP and parents were invited to and which most of the guests weren't aware of). Later that day they had a Jewish wedding ceremony. This was the ceremony that the entire guest list was invited to and aware of. Does this go against what you mentioned above? I was really uncomfortable with how they sort of hid the Catholic ceremony from the guests, but I'm wondering if there is something more serious here. If they did violate that rule, how would a Catholic/Jewish couple go about having their wedding recognized by both churches? Thanks in advance! Oh - and sorry for the hijack, OP!!
Posted by Riss91[/QUOTE]

i absolutely think that violates canon law. i feel the same way about church weddings that are done quietly then followed up with a fancy outdoor wedding.  the catholic ceremony shouldnt be hidden.

i know my sister dated a guy who had a jewish mom adn a catholic dad.  they married catholic, becuase she didnt think it was fair for him to have to give up his faith if they married jewish.  i was under the impression that her marrying catholic did not forbid her from practicing her judaism.

agapecarrie

I don't know what the jewish laws are (and I suspect they are different throughout because there are different branches of judaism), but your example they did indeed violate canon law. It was actually quite scandalous to "hide" the catholic ceremony.

If the jewish person was somehow under strict law that they could only marry a certain way, or some other serious reason, the Couple has to do a few things, but its still possible... They first have to get  "disparity of cult" dispensation from the bishop to get married  (which they would have to get no matter where they got married). Then the catholic gets a "dispensation from form" which means they don't have to get married according to the catholic form. The priest takes care of these things. The one wedding suffices (I think, but I'm not positive, that a deacon or priest has to be present to witness it). They still have to go through some sort of marriage prep and pre-marriage investigation, etc.

Just as an aside: A catholic should not take part (meaning participate in the wedding party, or take on a role) of a wedding in which a Catholic is marrying outside the church without the proper permissions. It would be invalid, and it is taking part in supporting an invalid marriage (a public declaration of fornication, basically). Attending it could even be scandalous, but that decision is up to the person as to whether it cause more harm or not. The fact that this couple hid the catholic ceremony and did the jewish one may have put some Catholics in a very difficult position.

Riss91

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_questions-brides-having-catholic-hindu-ceremonies?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:788f8aa7-6a1b-460e-b811-00b9948698b2Post:d145a2e5-1ee1-465c-924e-2cab8a81e12d">Re: Questions for Brides Having Catholic and Hindu Ceremonies</a>:
[QUOTE]I don't know what the jewish laws are (and I suspect they are different throughout because there are different branches of judaism), but your example they did indeed violate canon law. It was actually quite scandalous to "hide" the catholic ceremony. If the jewish person was somehow under strict law that they could only marry a certain way, or some other serious reason, the Couple has to do a few things, but its still possible... They first have to get  "disparity of cult" dispensation from the bishop to get married  (which they would have to get no matter where they got married). Then the catholic gets a "dispensation from form" which means they don't have to get married according to the catholic form. The priest takes care of these things. The one wedding suffices (I think, but I'm not positive, that a deacon or priest has to be present to witness it). They still have to go through some sort of marriage prep and pre-marriage investigation, etc. Just as an aside: A catholic should not take part (meaning participate in the wedding party, or take on a role) of a wedding in which a Catholic is marrying outside the church without the proper permissions. It would be invalid, and it is taking part in supporting an invalid marriage (a public declaration of fornication, basically). Attending it could even be scandalous, but that decision is up to the person as to whether it cause more harm or not. The fact that this couple hid the catholic ceremony and did the jewish one may have put some Catholics in a very difficult position.
Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]

Thanks for all the info - much appreciated! I did feel like it wasn't right, and considered not attending. It was a tough decision. At that point I wasn't aware that their Catholic ceremony was invalid. I merely thought that when we witnessed their Jewish ceremony, that they were already married, and therefore the Jewish ceremony wasn't a marriage ceremony. They might have gone through some of the dispensations you mentioned as my friend went to Catholic school and had a few priests that he was close with. But, I'm not positive they took the appropriate steps. Now that I know this, I will choose more wisely in the future. Thanks again, agape!

agapecarrie

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_questions-brides-having-catholic-hindu-ceremonies?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:788f8aa7-6a1b-460e-b811-00b9948698b2Post:aa3a91a6-ad03-4241-99e0-9528def0d9b3">Re: Questions for Brides Having Catholic and Hindu Ceremonies</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Questions for Brides Having Catholic and Hindu Ceremonies : Thanks for all the info - much appreciated! I did feel like it wasn't right, and considered not attending. It was a tough decision. At that point I wasn't aware that their Catholic ceremony was invalid. I merely thought that when we witnessed their Jewish ceremony, that they were already married, and therefore the Jewish ceremony wasn't a marriage ceremony. They might have gone through some of the dispensations you mentioned as my friend went to Catholic school and had a few priests that he was close with. But, I'm not positive they took the appropriate steps. Now that I know this, I will choose more wisely in the future. Thanks again, agape!
Posted by Riss91[/QUOTE]


Sorry for the misunderstanding. If they got married in a Catholic church (no matter what stuff they did afterward), its almost a certainty that the priest or deacon took care of the disparity of cult. The 2nd jewish ceremony was exactly as you thought...they were already married, and it was simply ceremonial.

Basically, the issue is they showed lack of understanding of what a Catholic marriage is, and commited sins(although maybe not with full knowledge). I don't think they are "excomunicated" for it. The 2nd ceremony does not invalidate the first one.

ootmother2

Riss,

I find it odd that your friends set up their wedding that way as I have been to a couple of interfaith weddings, Catholic and Jewish with both a Catholic priest and a Jewish rabbi officiating. I'm quite sure it could have been worked out.

haha, it's almost as hard to find a rabbi to co officiate at one of these as it is to find a priest who will do a mass outdoors

We all have our beliefs and respect others but it does seem that the clergy want it one way or the other, never combined.

ETA:  I wrote this before I saw your second post about your friends.  I am slow sometimes

Calypso1977

i'm pretty sure when caroline kennedy (catholic) married her husband (who is jewish) they had a priest and rabbi present as well.

Riss91

I'm hoping that they went through the correct methods - but they honestly could have not told their priest that they were having the Jewish ceremony (hopefully that was not the case). But I'm glad to hear that they likely didn't invalidate their Catholic ceremony.

oot- I think they didn't want to have a "joint" ceremony because they would have had to ask the guests to drive all over creation to attend their Catholic ceremony and then fight their way across Brooklyn to get to the reception. From their perspective, the more convenient thing for their guests would be to have the ceremony in the same location as their reception (which is where they had the Jewish ceremony). So, they left the guests out of the Catholic ceremony...

october010bride

I'm a Jewish bride who likes to lurk on your board because I find all religions fascinating.. hope you don't mind me chiming in on this post.

Traditional rabbis, no matter the demonination will not preform interfaith ceremonies, whether they are Orthodox, Coonservative or Reform.

The interfaith ceremonies, which are popular now, are usually preformed by cantors or rabbis who are no longer officiated with Synagogues. In the entire state of Mass. for ex, there are 2 rabbis who will conduct an interfaith ceremony that are still active a congregation. Rabbis will not share the wedding ceremony with a priest, jp, etc.

In your case Riss, since I don't know the couple at all, it seems to me that they wanted to have a Jewish wedding (not sure if it was traditional or not because there are a lost of traditions that are preformed before the actual ceremony) but the rabbi refused to preform an interfaith ceremony. So thats why they split up the ceremonies like that.

As for whether or not they are actually "married" in the Jewish faith, that would depend on whether or not they signed a Jewish marriage license before the ceremony.

In the sense of being married and having that marriage recogized, most American Jews do not have recognized marriages because the Orthodox rabbis in Israel require an Israeli marriage. For ex: my marriage is probably not recognized but I am 100% Jewish and had a 100% Jewish wedding.

Riss91

October - Thaks for the insight! I'm glad you lurked over here :-) I've always been curious about this because I've been to a few Jewish/interfaith weddings and it had seemed that there weren't many restrictions (in comparison to the Catholic church at least).

Hope you don't mind a few more questions! So, if a Jewish person wants their marriage recognized they have to be married in Israel? For those couples that are married in Jewish ceremonies in America, what status is their marriage in regard to Judaism? I know that Catholicism has different "levels" -  valid marriage, a non-sacramental marriage, a sacramental marriage, depending on what the religious background of the couple is and how they choose to be married.

And we have "rent-a-priests" that are former priests, no longer associated with the church and they will perform ceremonies that the Catholic church wouldn't recognize (ie weddings held outside, etc) but still have a Catholic "flair" to them. So that seems similar to what you mentioned about the rabbis no longer officiated with Synagogues.

Thanks in advance!

october010bride

 Of course! I lurk everywhere... both out of boredom and out of curiosity. Jewish weddings are very interesting and SO different from Catholic/interfaith ceremonies. 

Hope you don't mind a few more questions! Of course not!

So, if a Jewish person wants their marriage recognized they have to be married in Israel? For those couples that are married in Jewish ceremonies in America, what status is their marriage in regard to Judaism? I know that Catholicism has different "levels" -  valid marriage, a non-sacramental marriage, a sacramental marriage, depending on what the religious background of the couple is and how they choose to be married.

OMG this is long, sorry in advance! And its very lefty biased, beware!

Sadly, the politics and religion of Israel has turned drastically to the right- almost isolating many Conservative and Reform Jews in America and Europe. IMO, one of the many problems with Israel's theocracy.

I am Conservative, my husband is Reform (basically I was brought up more religious than him). We had a traditional Jewish wedding in my husband's families temple. We incorporated all Jewish traditions and in the eyes of our rabbi and our temple, we are fully married. We signed a Jewish marriage licence before the ceremony, which is basically a marriage contract. In the license it says how my husband and I will have a Jewish home, love eachother, protect eachother, etc.

In NYC and in Israel there exist a Jewish court system- called the Beit Din. The Beit decides all court cases based on Jewish law. If anything was to happen between my husband and I we would have to go to the court to request a divorce. Our Ketubah would be read and studied and then the court would decide.

We did not have an Orthodox wedding though and so it's to be seen if they would actually consider us married. They probably would because we performed all of the traditions and we live a "Jewish life" but since we are not Orthodox, you never know.

Most American Jews have nothing to do with the court system in NYC or Israel and they couldn't care less if their wedding was recognized. Most just don't care that much.

One of the problems with the religious right in Judaism is that it isolates those who are just not as religious as them. For instance, in the past few years they battled over who was a Jew and who was not. Some very hateful things were said about people who consider themselves to be Jewish but who are not recognized as Jewish by the Orthodox rabbis.

Judaism has 4 independent branches. Unlike Catholicism there isn't a "Pope" type figure who is head of the religion. That is why I am considered married by my branch but might not be considered married by a more religious branch. 

And we have "rent-a-priests" that are former priests, no longer associated with the church and they will perform ceremonies that the Catholic church wouldn't recognize (ie weddings held outside, etc) but still have a Catholic "flair" to them. So that seems similar to what you mentioned about the rabbis no longer officiated with Synagogues.
Yep, sounds just like that!

Thanks in advance! Sorry about the book... and my lefty politics def seeped through in my post. If you ask someone more religious/towards the right than me they'll probably have a totally different opinion on everything I just posted.

Hope this answers your questions! Feel free to lurk on the Jewish brides board if you're ever bored

mica178

Thank you October.  You provided a lot of helpful information!  Previously I had wondered how my Jewish friends could marry outside of their synagogues (on the beach, in a random wedding venue, etc.) so easily, but now I guess I know how.

october010bride

In the Jewish religion, it actually doesn't matter where the weddings are held because we believe that G-d is everywhere, not just in a synagogue. The only requirements are that a license is signed and that a Jewish clergy is present to officiate.

Riss91

October - thanks so much! I don't mind the lengthy post as it's really informative, and like you, I find other religions interesting and I feel my personal faith grows by learning about other religions. I hope you stick around :-)

bibliophile2010

Wow--October, thank you for a very interesting and informative post!

ootmother2

I also thank you October for the information.   It benefits everyone to know different religions.

My BFF in Massachusetts was Protestant and married a Jewish man and her father did get what you called "rent a rabbi" to co officiate at their wedding.  I remember it was one of the most difficult parts of planning the wedding as they had to find someone from Boston to go to a little town a good distance away.

october010bride

Glad I could be so helpful! I've learned so much about the Catholic religion by reading this board so I guess I was just returning the favor

And any time you have a question or are curious, don't hesitate in asking. I fully believe that free and open communication about religion is what furthers understanding and cooperation and places us farther and farther away from stereotypes and ignorance.

Calypso1977

i never knew that about jewish weddings....wow.

threepinkroses

Sorry to threadjack as well-

October- can you tell me a little more about the Ketubah?

I don't know how I happened upon them, but I found an english text of one that I think is absolutely beautiful. Kind of makes me wish we Catholics had a similar tradition.