Required to get married questions

HandBanana

Before getting married I had to provide proof of my Baptism and Confirmation.  There was Pre Cana and a few meetings with our priest.  Also, our vows included the (what I thought was required) part raising our children Catholic.

Just curious because I have gotten into an argument with a bride to be in the Catholic church who said they weren't required to do any of this and that they never signed or had to agree to raise there kids Catholic.  I'm just a bit confused and wondering where I am wrong here.  Is it different if you do not have a full mass?  I just based the requirements on my own experience and I'm curious if something like this is unique in every parish.

Obviously this isn't urgent but more me being curious.  I'm not comfortable asking my priest because I just feel nosy and gossipy.

Thanks!

bibliophile2010

The exact requirements (pre-Cana, other marriage prep, FOCCUS or no FOCCUS, etc.) vary between parishes and, most definitely, between diocese. I believe some sort of Marriage Prep is all-but mandatory, though the form may differ.

The intention questions before the vows (free, faithful and fruitful) are required, though the kids part can be omitted for good cause (like when the couple is of advanced age). No one should have to sign anything anymore about raising kids Catholic, though in mixed marriages, the Catholic spouse must promise to do their best to raise the kids in the Church.

How much emphasis to place on raising kids in the Church seems like it should be a pastoral decision. Two active Catholics probably don't need much push, but a couple in a mixed marriage may need lots of encouragement and support.

The baptismal certificate is actually to prove freedom to marry, though one party needs to be a baptised Catholic to get married in the Church. The other documents are sort of nice, but not strictly mandatory (though Catholic parties should also be confirmed if there is not an impediment to doing so).

Meg1036

I had to provide proof of baptism, but not confirmation.

While we haven't had our final meeting with the priest yet, th ecopy of the vows I have requires each of us to answer the question "Will you accept children lovingly from God and bring them up according to the law of Christ and his Church?"

monkeysip

My sister (non-catholic) said that the priest made no mention to her about raising the kids Catholic when she married my nominally Catholic BIL (I'm not saying this to be critical of either one, I'm just trying to explain their religious situation when they married).

They also didn't do any kind of prep, they just had one conversation with the priest before the wedding.

I didn't think anything at the time because I wasn't Catholic... but now I look back and think it kind of odd.  My sister says she wouldn't have made any such agreement on letting my BIL raise the kids Catholic if she'd been asked.  

*shrug*

I think in their situation, the priest was an old family friend, the parish was the mother in law's home parish... so it was real casual.  

lisa89760

Everything biblio said is what we had to do...but I don't think we have to sign something and we only have to show proof of baptism.  And you can't get out of that here since the priest marrying also was the one baptizing me and I still had to call the church and get a new certificate.

That reminds me...my FI needs to get on that!!

Calypso1977

we had to show proof of baptism.  we didnt need first communion because we were regular parishioners at our church so obviously we receive.  He inquired about confirmation, but we didnt have to produce anything - just verbally verified that we both were confirmed.

our pre-cana was 3 sessions with the priest.  no FOCCUS, group classes, weekends, etc.

but again, we are both practicing catholic so his pre-cana might be different for a mixed marriage or non-practicing catholics.

doctabroccoli

Mixed marriage here (I'm Catholic, H is Methodist).  The St. Louis Archdiocese required Pre-Cana as well as a separate NFP class.  We also did the FOCCUS survey with our priest, and I had to provide proof of my baptism as the Catholic one.  We were also asked in the vows if we promised to raise our children Catholic.

catarntina

Before the priest married us, he asked if we were going to raise our children Catholic.  It was not part of my vows.  The priest who married us omits the part about children and fertility in the vows just in case the couple is infertile.

He did ask us in our private sessions if we were open to having children (or if we were "just going to raise horses"), and what we planned to do with those kids when we/if we had them ("have them baptized, of course." )

We had to do pre-cana with a bunch of couples, then the FOCCUS, and private meetings with priest and deacon.  Also needed to show proof of baptism, and we needed to have the "Freedom to Marry" form signed by parents and a priest.

Karen's MOH

We had to provide baptism certificates (I included confirmation, but H isn't confirmed). We had to do precana but it could be anywhere or any time (engaged encounter, 2 day course, whatever). I know he asked the questions about coming freely and willingly, but I can't remember if he asked if we are open to children or not. I KNOW he didn't make us promise to raise them Catholic, because I was expecting that question and was surprised it's not required anymore. ( I since found out they have mostly done away with that).

And we got married a couple of hours from where we live, so the priest didn't know us from a hole in the wall. But he was very very laid back about everything.

HandBanana

Very helpful.  Thanks.  Biblio that was about the most thorough answer I could have asked for.  Our priest was laid back but at the same time, I wish they were more strict.  Not sure how I feel about people getting married in the Catholic church but being completely against the Catholic church and very vocal about not raising their kids Catholic.

It is just something I avoid arguing about because I have very strong opinions and they are just opinions, not facts.

bibliophile2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_required-married-questions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:a63100e2-68d0-4ca5-b121-e2d318fa535aPost:9a1d337f-8e47-4351-8b14-094c89ef99a5">Re: Required to get married questions</a>:
[QUOTE]Very helpful.  Thanks.  Biblio that was about the most thorough answer I could have asked for.  Our priest was laid back but at the same time, I wish they were more strict.  Not sure how I feel about people getting married in the Catholic church but being completely against the Catholic church and very vocal about not raising their kids Catholic. It is just something I avoid arguing about because I have very strong opinions and they are just opinions, not facts.
Posted by HandBanana[/QUOTE]

I'm glad my smattering of thoughts was helpful. I wish there was a lot more pastoral care placed in marriage preparation. The other life vows require years of discernment, and while family life in childhood and solid catechesis and young adult experiences are theoretical forms of marriage preparation, I don't know if modern society really treats them that way.

I really struggle when people come on the board and ask questions about getting married in the church when they don't really practice, have anti-Catholic fiance's, etc. Not that all mixed marriages are bad, just that I think people really, really need to think through the religion thing before they get in too deep and feel like they can't get out. Being on the same page about religion (not necessarily being the same religion, but being on the same page) really is a deal-breaker in my mind.

HandBanana

I completely agree.  I don't think everyone should get married in the Catholic church because not everyone agrees with it.  It was something that my husband and I discussed.  Before we were engaged, I told him being a member of a church was an important part of the foundation of our relationship.  I get frustrated by the number of people that only begin attending mass after an engagement and make jokes about their weekly offering going toward the wedding. 

I just don't understand why you would get married in the Catholic church if you disagree so much.  Why begin your relationship in the church at all? 

I feel like a cranky old fashioned church lady when it comes to this topic.

bibliophile2010

Ditto pretty much your whold post, HB. I feel like a cranky old-fashioned church lady on many topics!

kate5283kate

Bibliophile and HandBanana, I think I disagree with you. My fiance and I are Catholic, and we followed all of the rules and requirements carefully, dotted every i, crossed every t, etc. So we're not the people you reference, the ones who don't agree or don't practice.

I think grace comes to every person differently. A non practicing Catholic may feel a pull to get married in the church that he or she scarcely understands him- or her-self. She (we'll just simplify pronouns!) may crack jokes, find some of the requirements silly or a waste of time, and show up at church for the first time in a long time. However, that might be the first spark of growth that leads her back to the church, perhaps to baptize her child, then to attend regularly and to grow in faith.

There are also plenty of people who attend church every Sunday, follow all the rules, and have nothing but unkindness and vitriol in their hearts. Are they more deserving of celebrating the sacrament?

And there are those of us who self identify as "good Catholics". And we may be tested, may fall away from the church, may come back home... We can't know the future.

For these reasons, I think every Catholic who desires the sacrament, faces no impediment, and complies at least minimally with the diocesan requirements should have a Catholic wedding.

bibliophile2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_required-married-questions?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:a63100e2-68d0-4ca5-b121-e2d318fa535aPost:b9504601-e669-496d-acd3-a7457ce146fb">Re: Required to get married questions</a>:
[QUOTE]Bibliophile and HandBanana, I think I disagree with you. My fiance and I are Catholic, and we followed all of the rules and requirements carefully, dotted every i, crossed every t, etc. So we're not the people you reference, the ones who don't agree or don't practice. I think grace comes to every person differently. A non practicing Catholic may feel a pull to get married in the church that he or she scarcely understands him- or her-self. She (we'll just simplify pronouns!) may crack jokes, find some of the requirements silly or a waste of time, and show up at church for the first time in a long time. However, that might be the first spark of growth that leads her back to the church, perhaps to baptize her child, then to attend regularly and to grow in faith. There are also plenty of people who attend church every Sunday, follow all the rules, and have nothing but unkindness and vitriol in their hearts. Are they more deserving of celebrating the sacrament? And there are those of us who self identify as "good Catholics". And we may be tested, may fall away from the church, may come back home... We can't know the future. For these reasons, I think every Catholic who desires the sacrament, faces no impediment, and complies at least minimally with the diocesan requirements should have a Catholic wedding.
Posted by kate5283kate[/QUOTE]

Like I said, I struggle with the issue. I agree that the church shouldn't turn away couples who seek to marry in the church. I also think that couple should think long and hard and truly determine whether a church wedding is right for them. I actually have less of an issue with people who nominally want to marry in the church than people who don't want to marry in the church, but are pressured into it. I also think that there should be generally a greater emphasis on marriage preparation, though some places are seeking to do more.

I also agree that there are plenty of people who follow the rules, but don't have a heart for God. I also know that I fall far short of where I want to be. All I can do is pray and ask God for his guidance, for his mercy, and for deeper understanding.

HandBanana

I wasn't looking to go into an argument of grace and I can't begin to question the motives of every couple who marries in the Catholic church.  I can say that durring our Pre Cana weekend we were inspired by the faith young couples who had just conerted to Catholicism.  Sometimes it isn't until big events in our life that we question or evaluate things like our faith or our relationship with the church.  I'm happy that something like an engagement could bring a couple to the church. 

I'm just saying there are people out there who probably shouldn't get married in the church but do and along their path make it very obvious.  Some people attend church every week and would have the Ts crossed and the I dotted but really do not understand their faith and behave in a non-christian manner outside of Sunday mass.