Catholic Annulments... YIKES! I Need Guidance!

amandajared

Hey Ladies~
I am not catholic but will be marrying the man of my dreams, who is, in the very near future... There's just one thing, It very well could be later rather than sooner due to a catholic annullment. My first husband has been into drugs from what i understand and drops on and off the grid every now and then. Nobody really knows how to get ahold of him and I'm scared thats going to hold us up. We are ready to set a date but its kindof hard when you dont know how long the process will or can take!
My question to yall (yes, im from TX) is have you gone through this process? If so, how long did it take? was the other party able to be found and a willing participant? HELP!

amandajared

no, neither of us were bapstized catholic....

I can also guarantee they will not be abel to contact my ex husband. he does not want to be found and not even his mother knows where he has dissapeared to this time. I dont really feel its fair to have to hold off on our wedding because he is an addict and doesnt want to be found, so what i meant by picking a date was that we are probably going to end up going ahead with a non catholic wedding, and going back and doing the church ceremony when we are finally allowed. 

I really do have mixed feeligns about this because my fiancee really would like to be married in the church, as would i, but why should i have to wait for them to make contact, which i know wont happen. am i supposed to just stay engaged until they decide enough is enough and they arent going to find him. that could take years from what i understand.

im honestly growing tired of this whole thing i havent even started planning yet, because i cant, and im already so stressed out over all this i dont want to even deal with anymore and want to just move forward and marry elsewhere. I am not catholic, so a lot of this seems a little much for me. not trying to be offensive, this process is just very tedious

bibliophile2010

I understand that it is frustrating to wait, but I would really, really encourage you to do so. It will be so much more worth it in the end

Imagine that you and your ex were still legally married. If you wanted to seek a divorce in order to marry your current fiance, you would need to file papers, make a good-faith effort to find the guy, give him a chance to share his side of things, and then, if he didn't cooperate, you would be grated the divorce. Would you be annoyed, frustrated and impatient in the process? Probably. Would you run away to some other country, skirt the laws of the United States, get married and come back pretending to be married, only to try and fix it when your divorce was finally granted? I'm going to assume not.

It is easy to get frustrated with the Church when you perceive that they are the reason things aren't going your way, Really, though, like a government, they have rules for your own benefit and protection, even when it doesn't seem obvious. Others can speak on this much more articulately that I can, but I would really encourage you to be patient.

I recognize that you aren't Catholic, so that probably makes things seem even more frustrating, but if it is important to your fiance to get married in the Church, it should be important to you as well.

There are a few ladies here who have had various forms of annullment granted. I am sure that at least one will chime in with some thoughts from their own experience.

agapecarrie

Good Bibli

Remember, the church wants the best for your soul. These are not arbitrary rules put into place, but they are there because they are showing us what Truth is. The reality of the situation is that even the government cannot separate what man has joined in marriage. No one has that power. A civil divorce does not mean that one is no longer married. THe church HONORS marriages by considering them valid. The church is protecting marriage (the very nature of what you want to do with your fiance now), by presuming that the vows you made the first time were legit.
The church is believing you in those vows.

The church, in her charity, has a process of investigation to see if they were somehow not made validly one way or another.  An Annulment is never guaranteed. When a catholic marries outside the church, they are taking themselves out of communion with the church, and cannot receive sacraments. Please do not go ahead and get married outside of the church...this is extremely serious and puts souls at risk.

agapecarrie

Also, I've never heard of the tribunal waiting years for a non-responsive testimony in an annulment case. I would guess 6 months max.

farmgirl2012

My FI annulment took 10 months from start to finish.  I was in contact to make sure the witnesses filled out their documents quickly.  His ex was sent papers but we figure she did not respond.  Typically annulments are between 10 months and 1 year from what I was told.

amandajared

farmgirl-

i wouldnt know where to have them send paperwork to.... its not that he wouldnt help, he would... its just a matter of tracking down a homeless addict who isnt even in contact with his mom... 

**i really appreciate the replies from everyone, you have all put my mind at a little more ease. im just in a wierd place with this i think because i am not catholic and im having a hard time getting any answers elsewhere. theres so much to move forward with but i cant get a call back or even a return email from the parish and its all a little discouraging. i guess my next move is to just go there and tell them whats going on and get this started?**

MairePoppy

I answered you on Customs and Traditons.

agapecarrie

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_catholic-annulments-yikes-need-guidance?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:aeb7beda-f7ec-420f-b5f5-518b94426b40Post:91697d50-80b0-4fd8-b71b-de03c158dc88">Re: Catholic Annulments... YIKES! I Need Guidance!</a>:
[QUOTE]farmgirl- i wouldnt know where to have them send paperwork to.... its not that he wouldnt help, he would... its just a matter of tracking down a homeless addict who isnt even in contact with his mom...  **i really appreciate the replies from everyone, you have all put my mind at a little more ease. im just in a wierd place with this i think because i am not catholic and im having a hard time getting any answers elsewhere. theres so much to move forward with but i cant get a call back or even a return email from the parish and its all a little discouraging. i guess my next move is to just go there and tell them whats going on and get this started?**
Posted by amandajared[/QUOTE]

Make an appointment with a priest and if they ask for the purpose, you say to discuss beginning the annulment process. (Some parishes have certain advocates designated so the priest passes it on to them. This is ok if he passes you on).

If they don't respond, call another parish. If they don't respond call the diocese. You could search tribunal, or family life.

jfellows82

I'm not an expert in this by any means, but I don't think you'll need a full annulment to get married in the Church assuming that your first marriage wasn't in the Church.  

Was your first marriage in a civil ceremony or another Christian denomination?  I had a similar situation with my first husband.  We were married in a civil ceremony and I had to get a Declaration of Nullity from the Church.  It's a much easier process than a full annulment.  I had to fill out some paperwork with the priest about the first marrige and wedding ceremony and have two witness to the first wedding fill out affidavits with a priest.  I did not have to involve my ex in any way.  The whole process took less than 1 month.  I was told it was more difficult, but not impossible, to get approved when the prior marriage was in another Christian denomination.  

I would recommend meeting with a priest ASAP to figure out what you need to do.  It may not be as cumbersome as you think.   

Riss91

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_catholic-annulments-yikes-need-guidance?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:aeb7beda-f7ec-420f-b5f5-518b94426b40Post:82956615-58b9-40ef-8750-0694b25fdf21">Re: Catholic Annulments... YIKES! I Need Guidance!</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm not an expert in this by any means, but I don't think you'll need a full annulment to get married in the Church assuming that your first marriage wasn't in the Church.   Was your first marriage in a civil ceremony or another Christian denomination?  I had a similar situation with my first husband.  We were married in a civil ceremony and I had to get a Declaration of Nullity from the Church.  It's a much easier process than a full annulment.  I had to fill out some paperwork with the priest about the first marrige and wedding ceremony and have two witness to the first wedding fill out affidavits with a priest.  I did not have to involve my ex in any way.  The whole process took less than 1 month.  I was told it was more difficult, but not impossible, to get approved when the prior marriage was in another Christian denomination.   I would recommend meeting with a priest ASAP to figure out what you need to do.  It may not be as cumbersome as you think.   
Posted by jfellows82[/QUOTE]

This is why agape asked if the OP or her first husband was baptized Catholic. If a baptized Catholic gets married outside of the church, the annulment process is typically SIMPLER than if a non-Catholic is married outside of the Church. This is because all baptized Catholics are required to be married according to the proper form.

I don't believe OP is eligible for this type of annulment because neither her nor her 1st husband were baptized Catholic.

farmgirl2012

Hopefully the Parish will give you some guidance on what needs to be completed.  Good luck! 

agapecarrie

A declaration of nullity and annulment are the same thing. Defect of form is probably what is being referenced here about not getting married in the church. This is used when Catholics marry outside the church

Only Catholics are bound to canonical form in marriage. The church holds all marriages of non-Catholics, baptized and non-baptized to be valid until proven otherwise. 

lmeade62

I completely understand your predicament...I was in the same situation. My first marriage was over 20 years ago, and my ex-husband was a physically abusive alcoholic - like yours, nowhere to be found.

I started out with my local diocese for my annulment, but they had to establish jurisdiction first. In order to do so, we had to try to locate my ex-husband. I looked him up online, even spent a small amount of money for one of those Internet search results for himself and his parents. I got his driver's license number from a friend of mine who used to be a police officer. No luck. Since we couldn't establish jurisdiction locally, I had to go to the parish where my marriage took place.

So that would be my first recommendation - talk with the diocese where your marriage took place, rather than trying to figure out where he is now. Give them the information you've given us here. I didn't want to have any contact with my ex-mother-in-law because I did not want my ex to be able to find me. I did not have to write any letters or make any phone calls - the dioceses did that for me, understanding my situation. The second diocese sent one last set of letters to the addresses I had found online for my ex-mother-in-law, then proceeded with the case.

Some diocese will send two or three letters, certified so they can verify whether your ex lives there or not. Some will publish something in a newspaper classified section ("seeking so and so"). I don't believe any of them will hold up your case indefinitely because he can't be found. 

Don't give up hope...my annulment took a bit longer because of this "adventure" - about 18 months total, I think - but all finally went through and my husband and I were married in the Church in October. It was an indescribable blessing to be married in our beloved Church, and I couldn't be more grateful that we went through the process so we could be.

The women here were a source of tremendous support and comfort for me throughout the process, offering prayers and virtual back rubs when I grew discouraged. Keep us posted, and we will cheerlead you right down the aisle!

Prayers -

Linda

lmeade62

PS - I also would recommend calling the tribunal directly, rather than emailing them, or emailing or calling your parish. We found that we received much more reliable information from the tribunal - our priest admitted freely that he did very few annulments and advised and encouraged us to talk to the tribunal.

Best, best, best luck...let us know how it goes!

Linda

amandajared

Hello Ladies-

Here is an update:

I really took to heart what many of you said about waiting and doing it in the church, regardless of how long the annulment takes, and I really appreciate it. We have a meeting Monday morning (she finally called me back, she was on vaca) witht he lady who handles all of the annulments. we are going to discuss the situation and see if I will need a Absence of Canonical Forum or a Ligamen... Not sure what either of these are but she told me there are 7 different kinds of annulments. She also says that the wait in dallas for that sort would be 18-24 months because of the case load here. So..... we wait! Anything worth having is worth waiting and working for, right?

agapecarrie

I am soooo glad to hear this. THe person you talked to simplified several things down, but thats ok, cause that's all the info you probably needed at the time. In case you're curious: 

Absence of Canonical form (also called, lack of form or defect of form) is when a person that is Catholic (either baptized catholic or converts to catholicism) attempts a marriage outside the channels of the church. Because Catholics are bound by canonical form in their sacraments. If they lack these, then the sacraments aren't valid. This is a pretty quick process. I've actually heard of people being baptized catholic and not even know it.

Ligamen is when there is a previous marriage. Such as your ex was married to someone before you, therefore was not free to marry you. This would also be a quicker process.

Then there is the main annulment process...this is usually longer....When all the facts are in and it appears there are no obvious impediments such as previous marriages or lack of form items, then the investigation starts into more hidden impediments and the state of mind of the couple, their capability to enter into marriage, etc. This can take quite a bit of time. 

The other items she may be referring to are pauline and petrine privaledge. I'm not very knowledgable about these, however it has to do when one person is converting and will marry a Catholic spouse. These are the options that make it VERY important to wait to marry, because if one goes ahead and gets married outside the church, the ability to use these options drops. These options are not annulments per se (although they are often grouped in), but they are dissolutions of valid but non-sacramental marriages of non-baptized people (or possibly one bapitzed, one non-baptized---not sure of the details). If your ex wasn't baptized, there's a possibility that these might be used.

Because the case load is so large, a possibility MIGHT be to use another diocese tribunal. There are restrictions on when someone can do this, but if you were married in another area, its possible to use that diocese instead of where you live locally. Your advocate can give you more info.

lmeade62

I'm glad to hear it too! We tussled so hard with this, evne to the point of fearing we wouldn't be able to get married at all if our annulments (my husband also is divorced) were not affirmed. I can only say again, over and over, that I am so glad we went through the process. It was not easy, but our wedding day was worth every second of waiting and every tear shed.

Linda

professorscience

So happy it is working out!