frustration.

chelseamb11

Even with the choice FI and I made about abstaining until we are married, there was a point in time where we threw around the idea of living together (in a place with two bedrooms) to save money this upcoming year.  After much reflection and talking to our priest, we decided to live apart but just a couple doors down from eachother.  We were bummed about the rule about not having a full mass if we live together first. 
I'm just getting so frustrated about money right now between paying rent, paying bills, paying for all the random crap that keeps coming up and saving for the wedding.  It just frustrates me that we are spending roughtly an extra $500 per month to live apart which could be $6000 after this next year.  $6000 would go so far for us and it makes me frustrated that even though we wouldn't even be sleeping together, we still can't live together and have a full mass for the wedding.  What is the difference if the walls that separate us are in one apartment or two?  Not to mention the fact that my apartment is literally there for sleeping and showering.  All our food is in his apartment, he has the tv, the cable, the itnernet, the wii.. so all my waking hours are spent in his place, not mine.
Okay rant over.  I figured if anybody would understand it would be you guys. Thanks for listening

Meg1036

I have nothing to say to make you feel better, but yep, that's really frustrating.

ElisabethJoanne

Someone asked on another board about whether being a Christian was hard. The first thing that came to mind was the hassle of not living together before marriage. It sounds like moving in together won't be a big deal for you, but for me and my future husband it could be across the country. That's everything with the wedding and honeymoon, then moving, which is about the most stressful thing you can do, apart from get married or have a baby. And the Church makes us do both together.

Someone on that board talked about living with parents until my husband could build us a house. This is San Francisco, not nineteenth-century Wyoming!

I just tell myself that belonging to the Church requires sacrifices. We arrange our weekends around Sunday Mass and Friday penance. We tithe. And sometimes, we spend thousands of dollars on rent to avoid scandal and occasions of sin. It's what we took on with our baptisms.

mica178

That is frustrating.  We lived apart (not quite as close as you, we worked in different cities and decided to avoid the commute until we married), and I want to weep when I think about how much money we could have saved had we cohabitated.  Of course, what's money now vs. doing the right thing for sake of eternity?  Honestly, it's worth it in the end.  (The best comes to those who wait, etc. etc.)

monkeysip

I know it's frustrating, but you have to trust that this is the right thing for you guys.  I know that plenty of couples live together before marriage and have happy marriages.  I'm not saying living together dooms a marriage, at all.  But I think where you live does make it difference.  Living near each other and living in the same house/apartment IS different.  It'll be really special when you guys get to move in together for the first time after the marriage.

I know the money thing really sucks.  Is there any other person you guys could live with?  Get a roommate?  Family members?  I mean, there are things people do to save money on their living situations.

There's a lot of times where I wish FI could move in.  We've been together almost 9 years, and we hate always having to say goodnite at the end of the day, which is usually only like once a week (I also know others have had to go much longer without seeing each other, so I know we're lucky to see each other once a week!). Trust me, I feel your pain.  But I think when we get married, we'll be glad we waited. 

chelseamb11

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_frustration?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:be519faf-3780-4c25-889a-02c9804c1cfcPost:80f502dd-4d5a-491e-86d2-95aa7b0c5814">Re: frustration.</a>:
[QUOTE]That is frustrating.  We lived apart (not quite as close as you, we worked in different cities and decided to avoid the commute until we married), and I want to weep when I think about how much money we could have saved had we cohabitated.  <strong>Of course, what's money now vs. doing the right thing for sake of eternity?  Honestly, it's worth it in the end.  (The best comes to those who wait, etc. etc.)
</strong>Posted by mica178[/QUOTE]

Good point and good insight. Thank you!

Resa77

I feel for you!  FI lives 2 hours away, and will until next summer when we get married.  Otherwise, we would definitely be tempted to live together just for the economic reasons.

agapecarrie

I've never heard of holding a mass hostage, but that's his perogative I guess.

However, perhaps ask him if there are any parishioners that can provide you or him with a room  for cheap or free.

chelseamb11

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_frustration?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:be519faf-3780-4c25-889a-02c9804c1cfcPost:00f10ca4-d110-4d7d-9793-ec6aa8001fe3">Re: frustration.</a>:
[QUOTE]I've never heard of holding a mass hostage, <strong>but that's his perogative</strong> I guess. However, perhaps ask him if there are any parishioners that can provide you or him with a room  for cheap or free.
Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]

It's actually the laws of the Catholic Church's perogative haha.
That would also be a great suggestion, however we're getting married in our hometown and live about an hour and a half away.  My aunt does live in town, but she's been MORE than kind openeing up her house to me over the past 4 years during school breaks and such, I can't impose on her again.

monkeysip

I don't get the mass thing either.

I get refusing to marry a couple until they change their situation.  But what difference does it make whether said couple has a mass at the wedding or not?  The marriage is sacred and valid either way.  What does the eucharist have to do with it?

chelseamb11

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_frustration?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:be519faf-3780-4c25-889a-02c9804c1cfcPost:61279675-ae30-4c8f-9709-04bd639f42f5">Re: frustration.</a>:
[QUOTE]I don't get the mass thing either. I get refusing to marry a couple until they change their situation.  But what difference does it make whether said couple has a mass at the wedding or not?  The marriage is sacred and valid either way.  What does the eucharist have to do with it?
Posted by monkeysip[/QUOTE]

It doesn't make a difference in the validity.  But we want a full mass.

Riss91

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_frustration?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:be519faf-3780-4c25-889a-02c9804c1cfcPost:55824269-425e-4747-b601-c29e62885b37">Re: frustration.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: frustration. : <strong> It's actually the laws of the Catholic Church's perogative haha.</strong> That would also be a great suggestion, however we're getting married in our hometown and live about an hour and a half away.  My aunt does live in town, but she's been MORE than kind openeing up her house to me over the past 4 years during school breaks and such, I can't impose on her again.
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]

Is it really? I didn't think it was a rule that if you are living together you are not allowed to have communion? I'm sure the priest could require it, if he chooses, but I didn't think that was an actual rule.

agapecarrie

I dont' think its the church's rule, pretty sure, but not absolutely positive.

chelseamb11

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_frustration?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:be519faf-3780-4c25-889a-02c9804c1cfcPost:885afd95-d8c1-4dce-9702-26d9e790db11">Re: frustration.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: frustration. : Is it really? I didn't think it was a rule that if you are living together you are not allowed to have communion? I'm sure the priest could require it, if he chooses, but I didn't think that was an actual rule.
Posted by Riss91[/QUOTE]

Weird I was always told that the rule was Church made, not just priest's choice.

monkeysip

Ok, so can a couple who are in a state of mortal sin even receive the sacrament of marriage?  I'm not saying cohabitation is necessarily a mortal sin (it probably just depends).  I'm just curious and I can't find my answer.

I was just thinking that *if* cohabitation were a mortal sin, then the couple couldn't receive the sacrament at all, let alone communion.  But I'm not sure of that.

I even just waded through canon law *sigh*

agapecarrie

Making a guess here...

living together is public-- whether you are chaste or not, it can cause scandal. Since it is public, then you receive Communion at your wedding it seems that its public approval of the situation.

chelseamb11

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_frustration?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:be519faf-3780-4c25-889a-02c9804c1cfcPost:99ad575d-beae-47a1-b434-e96816dcba14">Re: frustration.</a>:
[QUOTE]Making a guess here... living together is public-- whether you are chaste or not, it can cause scandal. Since it is public, then you receive Communion at your wedding it seems that its public approval of the situation.
Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]

That sounds very valid.
No worries I was weeding through Canon Law too haha

monkeysip

Were you answering me question?  My question was whether you can receive the sacrament of marriage in a state of mortal sin.

agapecarrie

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_frustration?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:be519faf-3780-4c25-889a-02c9804c1cfcPost:f9778045-3439-4b53-90ba-0da64aa214ee">Re: frustration.</a>:
[QUOTE]Ok, so can a couple who are in a state of mortal sin even receive the sacrament of marriage?  I'm not saying cohabitation is necessarily a mortal sin (it probably just depends).  I'm just curious and I can't find my answer. I was just thinking that *if* cohabitation were a mortal sin, then the couple couldn't receive the sacrament at all, let alone communion.  But I'm not sure of that. I even just waded through canon law *sigh*
Posted by monkeysip[/QUOTE]

Well, there are several answers. It would be sacriligous if anyone receives Eucharist, Holy Orders, Marriage, or Confirmation knowingly in the state of mortal sin. This would not invalidate the marriage, but the graces would not be received from the sacrament until they go to confession.

A priest can't know the state of someone's soul-- if he is aware that a couple is sexually active before marriage he could strongly encourage confession, but I don't know if any priest would go so far as to ask them on their wedding day if they went.  A priest can determine though if there is public scandal of some sort that would be detrimental for the faithful is someone were to receive the Eucharist.

chelseamb11

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_frustration?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:be519faf-3780-4c25-889a-02c9804c1cfcPost:ec9371da-39cf-4813-bff2-e997a069a588">Re: frustration.</a>:
[QUOTE]Were you answering me question?  My question was whether you can receive the sacrament of marriage in a state of mortal sin.
Posted by monkeysip[/QUOTE]

Oh sorry, lost my full train of thought.  That I'm not sure of.  My guess is not?  But I'm not sure.  I know everyone is encouraged to go to confession before the wedding.

monkeysip

Well, l was just thinking that if cohabitation was a mortal sin, then the couple can't receive the sacrament of marriage anyway, so why would it be preferable to celebrate the sacrament of marriage without the eucharist?  They can't receive either, right?

I'm just thinking here.  Like I said, I just don't get why a priest would say "ok" to marriage but "not ok" to communion.  But maybe I'm wrong and you can receive marriage in mortal sin.  I don't know.

monkeysip

"This would not invalidate the marriage, but the graces would not be received from the sacrament until they go to confession."

This makes more sense, thank you.

But it still seems weird.  Performing a marriage for a couple in mortal sin seems just as publicly scandalous as giving them communion.  Maybe I'm just not thinking about this right.

lmeade62

I feel your pain, OP...not only can my FI and I not live together before the wedding, we can't live together after either, until his son graduates from high school. His son and his son's mother live three hours away, and since FI has joint custody, he rents a house up there so his son can go to the same school all the time. It's awful saying good bye to him, but it'll be worth it in the end.

Linda

monkeysip

Well, when FI and I are finally married, we'll get to move in together but not alone together.  I'm responsible for my disabled mother, so we're not going to experience married life alone.  Hopefully we can save up enough money to at least move into a bigger place, though. And hopefully we don't all kill each other

newlyseliski

I have two good friends who are doing the exact same thing right now!  They're in neighboring apartment complexes and are getting married in November.  Her apartment is literally for sleeping and wedding stuff staging and she's over at his place the rest of the time! 

My husband and I and I dated and were engaged for 5 years before we married and lived apart, no sex, etc. for the entire duration of it.  It would have been really convenient and affordable once I was done with school to move in together... but we didn't.  It was super tough because our schedules only permitted us to see each other 1-2 times/week.  For the last two years of our relationship, I lived with roommates to save money.

As far as the rule thing about having a full Mass... I think that is more the priest's pastoral prerogative than doctrine!  I do want to encourage you to stick it out, though... you won't even know what impact you have on those around you by resolving to persevere in doing the right thing!  10 1/2 months will fly by. 

I'd also recommend seeing if you can find a temporary roommate!  In my last living situation, I was in a house with 3 other engaged women and the owner of the house's wedding was the weekend after mine.  As I moved out, her husband started moving all his stuff in!  It was a providential find.  Ask around your parish, group of friends, local colleges etc.

It is a beautiful thing to wake up next to your husband every day and definitely worth the wait

chelseamb11

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_frustration?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:be519faf-3780-4c25-889a-02c9804c1cfcPost:f6e6b895-c3ed-42e2-9c34-22cdcceac5ce">Re: frustration.</a>:
[QUOTE]I have two good friends who are doing the exact same thing right now!  They're in neighboring apartment complexes and are getting married in November.  Her apartment is literally for sleeping and wedding stuff staging and she's over at his place the rest of the time!  My husband and I and I dated and were engaged for 5 years before we married and lived apart, no sex, etc. for the entire duration of it.  It would have been really convenient and affordable once I was done with school to move in together... but we didn't.  It was super tough because our schedules only permitted us to see each other 1-2 times/week.  For the last two years of our relationship, I lived with roommates to save money. As far as the rule thing about having a full Mass... I think that is more the priest's pastoral prerogative than doctrine!  I do want to encourage you to stick it out, though... you won't even know what impact you have on those around you by resolving to persevere in doing the right thing!  10 1/2 months will fly by.  <strong>I'd also recommend seeing if you can find a temporary roommate!</strong>  In my last living situation, I was in a house with 3 other engaged women and the owner of the house's wedding was the weekend after mine.  As I moved out, her husband started moving all his stuff in!  It was a providential find.  Ask around your parish, group of friends, local colleges etc. It is a beautiful thing to wake up next to your husband every day and definitely worth the wait :)
Posted by newlyseliski[/QUOTE]

i wish I could.  I already have a one bedroom apartment and the lease isn't up until next summer.
Thank you for the kind thoughts though! I know it will be worth it in the end, and I just need to keep reminding myself of that.

agapecarrie

I wasn't meaning to differentiate between sacraments. A priest should not knowingly minister/witness any of those sacraments to someone in mortal sin.

monkeysip

Ahh, ok, I see what you're saying, Agape.

professorscience

My FI and I are in the same situation.  His apartment is across the parking lot from mine.  I moved here because I knew it would be super convenient to be so close, but it has been so hard to stay apart.  Most of our stuff is already at my apartment, where we spend most of our time.  And to top it off, the guy who lives below FI is crazy and bangs on the ceiling whenever anyone walks around FI's apartment (like, will follow them from room to room banging on the ceiling).

I'm sorry you're so frustrated, but I know you and your FI will be really proud of yourselves when you are married.