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Catholic Weddings

Has anyone heard of Contemporary Catholics?

13

Re: Has anyone heard of Contemporary Catholics?

  • Hope61Hope61 member
    500 Comments
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Has anyone heard of Contemporary Catholics?:
    [QUOTE] Agape (or whomever), why don't Roman Catholics believe in second marriages, when in the Bible there were several key "dudes" who had multiple wives?
    Posted by Ghoti[/QUOTE]
    Matther 5:31-32
     31 “It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

    Basically, we cannot undo what God has done, so if we divorce legally, we are still married in the eyes of God... so if we then remarry, it is adultery. One can, of course, obtain an annulment, which means that the for some reason as determined by the Church the marriage was not valid in the first place. Then, one is free to remarry. (this does not mean, however, that the actions in the marriage were like pre-marital sex or the kids are ilegitimate or anything... thats a whole other topic though)
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  • edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Has anyone heard of Contemporary Catholics?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Has anyone heard of Contemporary Catholics? : They don't claim to be Roman Catholic, true, but they have a lot of confusing wording, and someone less well-versed might not realize that "outside the Roman jusirsiction" means not Catholic, or they might not read that far into the website, or they might attend one of their services and not realize that its not Roman Catholic. Its not really that straight forward.   I would say that they are Protestant in the sense that they are a branch off of the Catholic Church. Like, they are "protesting" some of the ways of the Church and therefore have made their own organization.   Bringing more people in=good. Stepping out of the box is fine. Breaking the rules of the Church? Not ok. For example... they do outdoor weddings, probably to "bring more people in." But there is a reason for not allowing outdoor weddings, and in my opinion its a very good reason. (A marriage should be God-focused and therefore should begin in a church, in the real physical presence [see post about the Eucharist] of God).
    Posted by KatieAnne18[/QUOTE]
    What is more God focused than getting married under his sky, sun and stars, on his green earth, in the shade of his trees? I don't see how I could be more in God's presence than that. Who created a church?

    Do all Catholics truly believe they are eating Christ's body and blood, or is that just a hard-core Catholic thing only?
  • Hope61Hope61 member
    500 Comments
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Has anyone heard of Contemporary Catholics?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Has anyone heard of Contemporary Catholics? : I asked here specifically because Fi's family is Catholic, his Gram is really catholic, his parents less and him even less, but I liked the idea of incorperating it into the wedding and wanted to know if it would be offensive to bring it up. It seems like the answer is no. But that aside, I'm actually enjoying this board, I'm learning a ton. [/QUOTE]
    While its great to try to find a way to meet your FIs family here, as PP said... I think its best to go with what you believe. I'm glad we could be helpful :) Feel free to ask any more questions you'd like!

    [QUOTE]Aaannnd I win the thread hog award LOL.
    Posted by Ghoti[/QUOTE]
    Now do I get it too? haha
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  • edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Has anyone heard of Contemporary Catholics?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Has anyone heard of Contemporary Catholics? : Matther 5:31-32   31 “It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery. Basically, we cannot undo what God has done, so if we divorce legally, we are still married in the eyes of God... so if we then remarry, it is adultery. One can, of course, obtain an annulment, which means that the for some reason as determined by the Church the marriage was not valid in the first place. Then, one is free to remarry. (this does not mean, however, that the actions in the marriage were like pre-marital sex or the kids are ilegitimate or anything... thats a whole other topic though)
    Posted by KatieAnne18[/QUOTE]
    But doesn't God forgive? What kind of God would want one of his children to be unhappy and alone for one mistake?
  • Hope61Hope61 member
    500 Comments
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Has anyone heard of Contemporary Catholics?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Has anyone heard of Contemporary Catholics? : What is more God focused than getting married under his sky, sun and stars, on his green earth, in the shade of his trees? I don't see how I could be more in God's presence than that. [/QUOTE]
    Because the Eucharist is God's physical presence and a Church therefore is the house of God. Yes, God is present all around us and especially in His creation, but His creation is not God Himself. I understand what you're saying, and I think outdoor weddings can be very beautiful, but thats just not what we believe.

    [QUOTE]Do all Catholics truly believe they are eating Christ's body and blood, or is that just a hard-core Catholic thing only?
    Posted by Ghoti[/QUOTE]
    Yep. Well, unfortunately, many Catholics are not well-educated (not their fault... and I don't blame any one particular person or group... could be the Church, the priest, the Catholic school teacher, the parent, etc.) and so they do not realize it. But that is what the Catholic Church teaches, as it is also in the Bible.
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  • edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Has anyone heard of Contemporary Catholics?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Has anyone heard of Contemporary Catholics? : While its great to try to find a way to meet your FIs family here, as PP said... I think its best to go with what you believe. I'm glad we could be helpful :) Feel free to ask any more questions you'd like! Now do I get it too? haha
    Posted by KatieAnne18[/QUOTE]
    You've been crazy helpful, thanks for putting up with my questions :) I grew up in a town that was 99% different versions of Protestant, and a small Catholic church that I went to once when I was like, 5.
  • edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Has anyone heard of Contemporary Catholics?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Has anyone heard of Contemporary Catholics? : Because the Eucharist is God's physical presence and a Church therefore is the house of God. Yes, God is present all around us and especially in His creation, but His creation is not God Himself. I understand what you're saying, and I think outdoor weddings can be very beautiful, but thats just not what we believe. Yep. Well, unfortunately, many Catholics are not well-educated (not their fault... and I don't blame any one particular person or group... could be the Church, the priest, the Catholic school teacher, the parent, etc.) and so they do not realize it. But that is what the Catholic Church teaches, as it is also in the Bible.
    Posted by KatieAnne18[/QUOTE]
    Ahhh I gotcha. Makes sense.
  • Hope61Hope61 member
    500 Comments
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Has anyone heard of Contemporary Catholics?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Has anyone heard of Contemporary Catholics? : But doesn't God forgive? What kind of God would want one of his children to be unhappy and alone for one mistake?
    Posted by Ghoti[/QUOTE]

    Well, first, He does not want us to be unhappy and alone. Sometimes our own actions put ourselves there. And we have to realize that and deal with it. Just as the sin of Adam and Eve got them cast out of the garden--God didn't really want to see them unhappy and locked out of paradise, did He? (Thats not to say the first marriage was a sin, though! At the time, the person thinks they are doing the right thing, and later they realize it was, as you said, a mistake)

    Other times, an annulment is granted. Its really not all that uncommon these days, I think.
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  • agapecarrieagapecarrie member
    Knottie Warrior 1000 Comments 100 Love Its Combo Breaker
    edited December 2011
    There is a rich symbolism in the walls of a Jewish Temple, which is the heritage of the Catholic church. You can read up on it in "The SPirit of the liturgy" by Cardinal ratzinger (now Benedict XVI)   The walls are symbolic of the community of the Catholic faith, which is to whom the witness to Christ that a couple makes when getting married--which is why Catholics get married in a Catholic church, or get a dispensation from form.

    The real presence of Christ in the form of bread and wine is a "sacramental" presence...this is a more accurate word than physical. The bread and wine have the appearances of bread and wine, but the substance changes to the body and blood.
  • agapecarrieagapecarrie member
    Knottie Warrior 1000 Comments 100 Love Its Combo Breaker
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Has anyone heard of Contemporary Catholics?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Has anyone heard of Contemporary Catholics? : Because there are emotions in words.
    Posted by Ghoti[/QUOTE]
    Please tell me which words had emotion.
  • edited December 2011
    Hmmm...well, I think if someone took your name and started using your name to preach and promote things you don't actually believe in, you'd probably be offended. I don't think it's a matter of someone having their own beliefs or beliefs that differ from the Catholic Church, I think it's a matter of taking the Catholic Church's name and associating it with things that the Church doesn't promote or teach.


    "There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be."— Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen
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  • edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Has anyone heard of Contemporary Catholics?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Has anyone heard of Contemporary Catholics? : What is more God focused than getting married under his sky, sun and stars, on his green earth, in the shade of his trees? I don't see how I could be more in God's presence than that. Who created a church? Do all Catholics truly believe they are eating Christ's body and blood, or is that just a hard-core Catholic thing only?
    Posted by Ghoti[/QUOTE]

    Yes, it's called transubstatiation (the process of the Priest turning the wafer into the body of Christ and the wine into His blood). It's a major component of the Catholic faith and something that distinguishes it from most protestant churches. (Though the Orthodox Church believes the same thing and possibly the Anglican Church - don't quite me on that.) It's similar to predestination being a major component of the Calvinist denominations.

    Agape, I guess my reasoning is that the Anglican service is very similar to a Catholic mass. By design. Unlike Martin Luther, Henry VIII didn't have a problem with any aspect of the mass, the church hierarchy, or the beliefs of the church... except the one about divorce. In fact, I have a friend who was raised in the American Episcopalian church and in college attended the Catholic mass on campus because it felt more familiar to her than the protestant service (which was probably more of a Methodist/Presbyterian type of service). I CAN definitely see what Calypso mentioned, that some people may confuse this with a legitimate Catholic sacrament. However, I feel that most people seek this out because they are dissatisfied with their faith, yet they want something familiar to them. So as long as they know they are NOT affiliated with Rome I don't see a problem. Though I am unsure about the issues surrounding defrocked priests and whether or not they can serve as clergy, period.
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  • mica178mica178 member
    5000 Comments Fourth Anniversary
    edited December 2011
    I'm not  fan of how they promote themselves as Catholic alternatives, but if you are not Catholic (e.g. the OP), I guess it's an option.  Honestly, though, I'm not sure that having a Catholic feel to your wedding (without it being the real deal) is going to appease your Catholic guests.

    As a Catholic, I would not find this particular group appropriate for my wedding, but my situation is different from Ghoti's.  
  • Jasmine&RajahJasmine&Rajah member
    Knottie Warrior 100 Comments 5 Love Its
    edited December 2011
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Has anyone heard of Contemporary Catholics? : But a lot of the attacks against her (agapecarrie) seem to be simply because she's saying "well, this is what the Church teaches."  Now, it might not matter to the OP (of this or any other thread) what the Church teaches, but inasmuch as this is the Catholic Weddings board, I think what the Catholic Church teaches is relevant on most threads.
    Posted by GulfCoaster[/QUOTE]

    Can we make that paragraph a "sticky" post at the top of the board?  :-)

    I'd like to say, with complete respect to everyone here, that I always appreciate agape's straightforward manner, and her commitment to speaking the Truth of the Church.   
  • doctabroccolidoctabroccoli member
    1000 Comments
    edited December 2011

    Gulf and Jas -
    That's not really it at all.  I respect Agape's vast knowledge on doctrine, but at the same time, her very matter of fact tone is offputting to some regardless of the content of the post.

    Also, I have a genuine question with respect to this board.  This is the "Catholic Weddings" board.  Sure most of the discussion revolves around the "Roman Catholic Church", but that's not the only branch of Catholicism intended to be discussed here, right?

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  • Calypso1977Calypso1977 member
    Knottie Warrior 2500 Comments 25 Love Its First Answer
    edited December 2011
    not at all, docta.  we have at least one poster (bel) who is byzantine and provides a lot of knowledge on that form.
  • agapecarrieagapecarrie member
    Knottie Warrior 1000 Comments 100 Love Its Combo Breaker
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Has anyone heard of Contemporary Catholics?:
    [QUOTE]Also, I have a genuine question with respect to this board.  This is the "Catholic Weddings" board.  Sure most of the discussion revolves around the "Roman Catholic Church", but that's not the only branch of Catholicism intended to be discussed here, right?
    Posted by doctabroccoli[/QUOTE]

    Well, yes and no.

    There is only one true Catholic faith. (One, Holy Catholic, Apostolic). There are several churches/rites under the magisterium of Rome and the pope, including eastern rites/churches. Only the Latin Rite (most common in US) is called "Roman". All of these believe in the same doctrine, some differences in theological thought, but under the pope. While I love learning about the Eastern churches and divine liturgy, the few that might come here with questions probably won't get a lot of help because most of us are latin rite and aren't familiar with the liturgical practices. (not saying they shouldn't come...as I said I find it fascinating and love hearing about it)

    The orthodox branches are not in communion with Rome, but their ordaination still shares in the valid line of Holy Orders. They have even stricter rules than the Catholic church regarding Communion and marriage. I don't think they use the word "Catholic" as a title anyway.

    I believe I understood that this particular catholic wedding board was added because catholic weddings have so many very particular rubrics and rules.

    When are talking about the schismatic groups, the priests with faculties removed, etc, you basically have a protestant church.... but it is disguised to look Catholic. Many of these priests have been excommunicated and priests laicized. Catholic rites and liturgies are not simply a cultural backdrop for a pretty wedding, they have deep theological meaning, most having to do with being in Communion as one church...which isn't possible when a priest is in schism. The particular practices of the schismatic groups most likely won't have the same questions because its likely don't really have boundaries to how their wedding is done... they aren't bound by the rubrics of the mass, and they are illicit anyway.
  • doctabroccolidoctabroccoli member
    1000 Comments
    edited December 2011
    Thanks for that response, Agape.  That was helpful and non sledgehammer-ish :).

    I guess the fact that I am a very social justice-oriented Roman Catholic makes me want to see this board balanced in terms of discussion so that everyone feels like they are welcome to post here!  That's where my question came from.
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  • agapecarrieagapecarrie member
    Knottie Warrior 1000 Comments 100 Love Its Combo Breaker
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Has anyone heard of Contemporary Catholics?:
    [QUOTE]Thanks for that response, Agape.  That was helpful and non sledgehammer-ish :). I guess the fact that I am a very social justice-oriented Roman Catholic makes me want to see this board balanced in terms of discussion so that everyone feels like they are welcome to post here!  That's where my question came from.
    Posted by doctabroccoli[/QUOTE]

    It seems that when I say something about a hypothetical or random question/topic...just simply stating what the facts are is ok. but when it is somehow attached to someone's personal situation, stating the exact same thing in the exact same way is "sledgehammer".
  • Calypso1977Calypso1977 member
    Knottie Warrior 2500 Comments 25 Love Its First Answer
    edited December 2011
    anyone else have that song "sledgehammer" in their head? 
  • doctabroccolidoctabroccoli member
    1000 Comments
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Has anyone heard of Contemporary Catholics?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Has anyone heard of Contemporary Catholics? : It seems that when I say something about a hypothetical or random question/topic...just simply stating what the facts are is ok. but when it is somehow attached to someone's personal situation, stating the exact same thing in the exact same way is "sledgehammer".
    Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]

    Hmmm, okay, I will try to explain cause your detailed knowledge is really very helpful, and I most certainly don't dislike you - it's just hard to swallow some of your posts.  So, when you reply to a question about doctrine, for example, it's almost like you're a posting robot just spewing facts.  We were talking earlier about emotion (or the lack thereof) on a message board.  So say if someone who doesn't know much about Catholicism and wants some questions answered posts, and they get spewed at by robot Agape, it can be overwhelming just to be hit by a brick wall of doctrine.  If you actually inject some emotion into the post like "That's a very good question!" or even adding your opinion (of course prefaced by the fact that it is your opinion), it helps other posters connect with you as a person. 

    Does that make any sense?  It's hard to find the right words, lol.
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  • Calypso1977Calypso1977 member
    Knottie Warrior 2500 Comments 25 Love Its First Answer
    edited December 2011
    docta, i think that is one of the best explanations ever given.

    agape, ive always liked you and valued your posts - ive definiteily noticed youve tried to be a little softer and someone else mentioned that too.
  • doctabroccolidoctabroccoli member
    1000 Comments
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Has anyone heard of Contemporary Catholics?:
    [QUOTE]docta, i think that is one of the best explanations ever given. agape, ive always liked you and valued your posts - ive definiteily noticed youve tried to be a little softer and someone else mentioned that too.
    Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]

    Okay, I'm glad someone understands at least, lol.  I guess my point is that we, as Catholics, want to show the world that we have an awesome faith with awesome people, and straight up emotionless posting, however helpful the intention, can be intimidating for people, especially those who are not as familiar with the faith for whatever reason.
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  • edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Has anyone heard of Contemporary Catholics?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Has anyone heard of Contemporary Catholics? : Okay, I'm glad someone understands at least, lol.  I guess my point is that we, as Catholics, want to show the world that we have an awesome faith with awesome people, and straight up emotionless posting, however helpful the intention, can be intimidating for people, especially those who are not as familiar with the faith for whatever reason.
    Posted by doctabroccoli[/QUOTE]

    I'm with 100%, docta.  I think that was very well put.
  • agapecarrieagapecarrie member
    Knottie Warrior 1000 Comments 100 Love Its Combo Breaker
    edited December 2011
    Docta,

    I do agree with you that an additional comment could be helpful to connect as a person...I'm faced with a problem...

    First, earlier, when I had absolute emotionless church statements (and someone else affirmed that it was emotionless with no tone).... it was accused of having negative emotion in the words by someone else. In this very thread. I asked for specifics and they haven't answered. Maybe they haven't come back or maybe when evaluating it they discovered that there was nothing wrong with it. I don't know.

    The reception of the exact same statement is different by person. 

    What has happened more than anything here is when stating that stealing is wrong, a person who steals (or has stolen and hasn't formed their conscience about it) is going to "feel" that its negative, because in the process of discovery that one's ethos is off, its painful.  The first intuitive reaction is to blame the messenger, or rationalize that the message isn't true.

    As Fr. Corapi said (and yes I know the stuff going on right now, but he hasn't ever publicly stated anything against the faith, so if we can put that aside for the sake of discussion).... "I'm not going to hell for anybody".

    Encouraging anyone to get married in a schismatic group is part of the problem, not the solution. It isn't "social justice" oriented because its a danger to people's souls. (NO, this is not the same thing as saying anyone, those folks in particular are going to hell). This is perpetuating the confusion and the anti-catholic sentiments because people are thinking its catholic when it really isn't. (reference here the Sheen quote from earlier).

    ugh...I'm going too long... back to the issue.

    I have avoided ANY kind of emotion and tone on purpose because everything is so misunderstood. It is sometimes seen as patronizing when its not intended.Especially this last week, somehow I've been roped into this negative vibe from one particular person (and thanks to those who made corrections) that I wanted nothing to do with... I simply avoid all emotion and tone because no matter what I say, there has been personal attacks. I can say with a clean conscience that I haven't taken part in it. If I added anything else other than church teaching, then that would be ripped apart...and I can't back that up because its from me personally. Rather, I'm safe with only reporting the teaching and canon law because it isn't me,  I'm just the messenger.

    I hope I explained my reasoning. I get the point docta, and I hope everyone here gets mine. I want to stay in the safe zone, where I have nothing to be ashamed of, because it is Christ who is making the rules, not me. And I will defend it to the death.
  • edited December 2011
    I wish theknot had a "like" function; the above is very well put, agape!
  • doctabroccolidoctabroccoli member
    1000 Comments
    edited December 2011
    Hey, sorry - went to bed early-ish last night.

    I understand your thoughts and concerns.  I guess my point is that for a lot of people, religion is a very personal thing.  I lurked here for many months before actually deciding to post, because even as a practicing, weekly church-going but more liberal Catholic, I was scared of you.  No joke.  I don't know your full posting history, and I don't know your history of maybe getting ripped to shreds for saying personal opinions, but honestly, I'd like to hear more from you than just robot Agape speak :).  Sometimes good things happen when we take chances :).  Of course that's entirely your decision, but those are my thoughts!
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  • agapecarrieagapecarrie member
    Knottie Warrior 1000 Comments 100 Love Its Combo Breaker
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Has anyone heard of Contemporary Catholics?:
    [QUOTE]Hey, sorry - went to bed early-ish last night. I understand your thoughts and concerns.  I guess my point is that for a lot of people, religion is a very personal thing.  I lurked here for many months before actually deciding to post, because even as a practicing, weekly church-going but more liberal Catholic, I was scared of you.  No joke.  I don't know your full posting history, and I don't know your history of maybe getting ripped to shreds for saying personal opinions, but honestly, I'd like to hear more from you than just robot Agape speak :).  Sometimes good things happen when we take chances :).  Of course that's entirely your decision, but those are my thoughts!
    Posted by doctabroccoli[/QUOTE]


    I can't take responsibility for you being scared when all I did was state church teaching. If its from the church, then there is nothing to be scared of, because it is about our salvation. As Christ said (and JPII always quoted) "Be Not Afraid"
  • doctabroccolidoctabroccoli member
    1000 Comments
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Has anyone heard of Contemporary Catholics?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Has anyone heard of Contemporary Catholics? : I can't take responsibility for you being scared when all I did was state church teaching. If its from the church, then there is nothing to be scared of, because it is about our salvation. As Christ said (and JPII always quoted) "Be Not Afraid"
    Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]

    Right, but think about how non-Catholic (or maybe not as in tune with liturgical practice Catholics) feel about your responses.  If I, as a lifelong practicing, Catholic schools-educated Catholic feel that if I respond I'm afraid that I'll get ripped to shreds based on your non-human posting tone, then how do others feel?  There are three kinds of people on The Knot.  Long time posters who may have gotten to know you better as a person, long time lurkers who are still trying to figure people out, and posters that just stop by to ask questions.  As a board, we have to best represent ourselves to all three kinds of posters.
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  • ootmother2ootmother2 member
    Tenth Anniversary 5000 Comments 25 Love Its First Answer
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Has anyone heard of Contemporary Catholics?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Has anyone heard of Contemporary Catholics? : I can't take responsibility for you being scared when all I did was state church teaching. If its from the church, then there is nothing to be scared of, because it is about our salvation. As Christ said (and JPII always quoted) "Be Not Afraid"
    Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]

    "Be Not Afraid" is what Christ said.  You really put yourself on that same level?

    yikers, now I'm scared.  but not of you, rather for you.  This is getting more than a little bit out of hand
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