Creighton Class

bibliophile2010

My fi and I started our Creighton NFP class over the weekend, and we were both very happy with it overall. He's a little bit concerned about how he can be involved in the process, but I told him that we would figure it out. Do any of you Creighton ladies have advice/experience in involving your FI/DH in the model?

We are both happy with its connection to medical technology and the emphasis on treating issues rather than just working around them. We also like that it works in all stages of life (with appropriate learning, understanding).

agapecarrie

The woman makes the observations and writes them in. The guy puts the stickers on. Therefore, he knows exactly where she is.

bel138

I won't tell my husband whether we're "safe" or not. I'll tell him what I observed (write the code on the chart), and he needs to work it out for himself (place the sticker). Of course, I always double check and make sure he got it right.

newlyseliski

I'm wondering, too... this will probably be a bit logistically challenging for my fiance and I until we are married and actually living together   I'd have him take care of the chart... but he's pretty far away and has five intense classes that he's taking this semester!  I'm worried that he'd lose the chart or forget to ask me

bibliophile2010

Thanks for the advice on sticker placement. Since we're not living together and I'm solely keeping track of the charting for now, it is currently a non-issue, but one we want to have some grasp on before the wedding.

I am blessed that my FI is fully invested in this with me. We had a long method-selection process. I recognized that Creighton was going to be a long-term better method for us (inconsistant sleep and the heightened potential for treating other potential health problems), and FI agreed that, ultimately, I had done more research and should make the decision. That said, FI was really excited about being the "temperature-taker" for the ST method, and I think he's sad to be losing that.

I've just got to convince him that putting a sticker on the chart every day is just as helpful!

agapecarrie

Yeah...sticker placement is more than the physical act...its that he has to actually interpret the codes and determine where your cycle is, so he knows where you are and you arent' the gatekeeper

GulfCoaster

This is my DH's complaint about Creighton too.  We switched to Creighton from CCLI's sympto-thermal method not that long ago, and when we were using sympto-thermal, DH was in charge of temperatures.  He felt like he had a "job," taking my temperature each morning before he went to work and dutifully charting it, setting low temperature and high temperature lines, etc...  And he does not feel like reading the observations and then placing stickers is involved enough, like it's a step down from his prior level of involvement.

snowygreen

Hi all, bibliophile, I have a question. We are trying to decide right now which NFP class to take. Can you tell me more about how you decided which was right, where you looked for more info? It seems everything I read says that that particular one is the best! Thanks!

agapecarrie

Creighton is medically based, and has scientific observation techniques. No other method encourages scientific observation. Doctors that use Napro technology use Creighton method to diagnose and treat any fertility issues. It has standardized teaching.

Sympto thermal requires a steady sleep schedule. It uses several observational symptoms for cross checking, which for some work really well.

Billings is the original "Creighton", but not as standardized in its teaching or observation.

Marquette is like Creighton with the addition of a fertility monitor for cross checking.

snowygreen

Thanks @agapecarrie! I like the idea of Marquette with the monitor together with Creighton, but it seems from my reading that STM has the most cross-checks. Thing is, I do not have a steady sleep schedule now. i may have it once we're married though and sharing a bed?

My concern is to be really accurate b/c of health issues, we will need to avoid in the beginning for a bit...

bel138

The cross checks of STM are only beneficial if they are present. Because if, like me, you have no temp flucuation, no CM, no cervical changes, random pelvic pain throughout your cycles, a crazy sleep schedule and drastic mood flucuations because of that sleep schedule, you'll just drive yourself crazy thinking you're not doing something right and straining your marriage because you can only be intimate once every two months. Then you'll want to figure out what's causing your erratic cycles, but there's no medical interpretation of your charting. So you'll start Creighton anyway.

But if everything is functional down below, the cross checks really do seem like they would give you peace of mind.

agapecarrie

The problem with cross checks is that some people start relying on them as main indicators, yet do not scientifically observie them, which renders them useless.

I've been doing Creighton for going on 9 years (started long ago for my health)....once you get to know it well...and it sometimes takes awhile because of health issues, then you don't need cross checks...

bibliophile2010

For me, it was really between the Creighton and ST methods.  I read a lot here, googled the heck out of all of it and spent some time in prayer, trying to discern which method would be best.

Similar to others, I liked the idea of the cross-checks with ST and, as mentioned above, FI was really interested in the temping aspect of the method. It also seems to be the "default" method in my area and on this board. I read TCOYF (and will jump on the great-book bandwagon every.single.time. because I think it does such a good job of explaining your reproductive system and why NFP makes sense from a non-religious perspective) and started charting because I found it interesting and empowering to know what was happening with my body, so I knew ST was very very similar and would be very easy to learn.

On the other hand, even though my cycles have always appeared very regular, there is a history of fertility and reproductive health problems in my family. Creighton appealed to me because it would help diagnose and treat any "hidden" health problems that might affect my fertility/health. I foresaw a situation where I ended up switching anyway, because of such health problems. Additionally, my FI is in medical school, so I knew the science/medicine/technology aspect of it would be satisfying to us in the long-term.

I finally opted for Creighton because of the sleep-dependent aspect of temping. I already sleep terribly and can't rely on a three-hour pre-temp block. That is before adding a husband with a medical student/resident/doctor schedule, future crying babies, etc. I realized that by the time my sleep schedule is standard enough to really find the temping useful, I would probably be past child-bearing age anyway! I would prefer to be an expert in using the most-reliable sign of fertility (CM) and rely on that, which is exactly what Creighton teaches.

A week into it and I'm sooooooooo happy with the decision. As expected, my FI is attracted to the science/medicine aspect of Creighton/NaPro Technology. He is coming to grips with the idea of being the "sticker guy" and likes that I don't have to wake up at the crack of dawn to temp (I usually have to get up early for work anyway). I'm already suspecting a fixable problem based on my studies/knowledge of my cycles, so I'm excited to know that we can work to fix it, if, in fact, it exists.

I know that was long, but if you have other questions, I'm happy to answer them.

Riss91

I have a couple of questions! I know I need to take a class, but I'm in the middle of busy season right now, so it's not gonna happen for a few months :-)

Please assume these questions relate to someone WITHOUT fertility/reproductive issues.

1) With the ST method, you observe your CM in addition to your temperature. The consistency, texture of CM helps you determine when you are fertile. There are typically days of infertile CM leading up to Ovulation and then afterward as well. How is the observation of CM for Creighton different from the ST method?

2) Due to the release of progesterone after ovulation, your temperature increases (typically 4 degrees). It can be a large jump in one day, a slower rise over a few days or a step pattern. In a woman without issues and a with normal sleep schedule, why is the temperature observation not a proper cross-check indicator that ovulation likely occurred?

3) Assuming you are TTA, under the ST method, you are supposed to abstain for 3-4 days after the latter of: (1) a clear shift in temp or (2) observance of fertile CM.  If you are following Creighton, and therefore do not have your temp to help you confirm, what are the other observations you make to ensure you are post-ovulation?

Thanks for sharing your wisdom!

agapecarrie

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_creighton-class?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:cb1c459f-140e-4b5a-8bf5-805651840fc8Post:fac9250c-87b0-48c9-9c41-49059ec2fe19">Re: Creighton Class</a>:
[QUOTE]I have a couple of questions! I know I need to take a class, but I'm in the middle of busy season right now, so it's not gonna happen for a few months :-) Please assume these questions relate to someone WITHOUT fertility/reproductive issues. 1) With the ST method, you observe your CM in addition to your temperature. The consistency, texture of CM helps you determine when you are fertile. There are typically days of infertile CM leading up to Ovulation and then afterward as well. How is the observation of CM for Creighton different from the ST method? 2) Due to the release of progesterone after ovulation, your temperature increases (typically 4 degrees). It can be a large jump in one day, a slower rise over a few days or a step pattern. In a woman without issues and a with normal sleep schedule, why is the temperature observation not a proper cross-check indicator that ovulation likely occurred? 3) Assuming you are TTA, under the ST method, you are supposed to abstain for 3-4 days after the latter of: (1) a clear shift in temp or (2) observance of fertile CM.  If you are following Creighton, and therefore do not have your temp to help you confirm, what are the other observations you make to ensure you are post-ovulation? Thanks for sharing your wisdom!
Posted by Riss91[/QUOTE]

1)The terms are different, there are also more categories/terms to describe different mucous (sometimes caused by cervical eversion), it is also much more detailed (sensation, consistency, and length). Also observed is sensation, even if you don't find any mucous. Also, the observation is scientific...which means EVERY SINGLE TIME all the time. Before/after urination or bm, before/after shower, etc. There are no exceptions.

2) As you say, women who have no health issues, temp can work as a cross check for ST method. It's not that it wouldn't work, but its not used. In my many discussion I have had with ST users, they love to draw the graph for the temp, and they start to rely on that, instead of it being only a cross check. I know not everyone does this, but it tends to get more attention.

3) There are questions to answer after every perceived ovulation... have I been under any stress is one of them. If avoiding using creighton, intercourse does not happen until the end of the 4th day. Remember, mucous is the main indicator of fertility (since sperm needs a specific kind to reach the egg)..and creighton observes every time all the time, so even if post ovulation, a woman still watches for cm, and if some is present, then they abstain if its fertile type. It's a day by day thing. One doesn't necessarily need to know they are post ovulatory.

bibliophile2010

Riss, I'm sure the girls who have been doing this longer can give you better answers, but I got here first, so here goes nothing!

1. The observation of CM is based on observation of color, consistency, change (as in how is it different today than it was yesterday?), and the sensation (lubricative v. non-lubricative). It has more standardized options than ST and is more about really describing the CM. It also asks you to consider how often the CM is observed. This is done every single day every single time you use the bathroom. Based on what is observed, a day will be deemed fertile or infertile.

2. Temperature is a cross-check indicator; it is just not used in the standard-instruction Creighton method. Once a Creighton-user gets confident in observing Peak-type mucus (what ST refers to as EWCM) and the subsequent dry up or change in mucus, it is not needed.  The problem is that many women using ST begin to rely on their temperature more than their CM in determining their fertility status. The other problem is that temp. can be unreliable when sleep is not consistent, there are other health factors (infection, for example), a thermometer isn't working right etc.

3. When TTA, you start "counting three" (three days) the day after your Peak-Type mucus (which is what you are referring to as "fertile") drys up or changes dramatically. You are considered infertile at the end of the fourth day, and remain so until your next period. Just like with ST: no mucus, no fertility.

Riss91

Thanks for the info ladies! A couple of follow-ups:

So, you record CM observations every single day and  do multiple observations within the day?

And does ovulation not really matter too much then (for TTA purposes) because even if you have O'd you still abstain when there is fertile CM?

Do you abstain for 4 days after every fertile CM observation...so say you Od on Day 14 and then on Day 20 a random fertile observation occurred, would you abstain for another 4 days?

How do you handle <TMI alert />  having some of his fluids mixed in, as they can linger for a while and could affect what you are observing?

agapecarrie

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_creighton-class?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:cb1c459f-140e-4b5a-8bf5-805651840fc8Post:d4b186fb-07b5-422c-a2d1-52647aecdcd0">Re: Creighton Class</a>:
[QUOTE]Thanks for the info ladies! A couple of follow-ups: So, you record CM observations every single day and  do multiple observations within the day? And does ovulation not really matter too much then (for TTA purposes) because even if you have O'd you still abstain when there is fertile CM? Do you abstain for 4 days after every fertile CM observation...so say you Od on Day 14 and then on Day 20 a random fertile observation occurred, would you abstain for another 4 days? How do you handle <TMI alert />  having some of his fluids mixed in, as they can linger for a while and could affect what you are observing?
Posted by Riss91[/QUOTE]


As I said earlier, every time for the bathroom/shower. before and after.

Yes, if there is fertile cm observed, one abstains till the end of the 4th day afterward. In fact, that is the "when in doubt" rule, always.

Within one hour after intercourse, a bathroom visit to "expel"  seminal fluid is the hygenic thing to do. uirnation afterward can help in preventing urinary tract infections.  When someone learns creighton while they are married, they are first expected to abstain a full month while learning, then the instructor helps them in adding windows allowed for intercourse, until confidence is build in the method and determining the differences.

This is why learning NFP long before marriage is so important..