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Contraceptive Mandate Goes Into Effect Today

With the Olympics, Romney's potential VP pick, and Chick-fil-A in the news, I haven't seen as much as I'd like about today being when the measures of the Affordable Care Act that impinge on our religious freedom go into effect.  I encourage everyone to continue praying, contacting elected officials, and expressing your protests!  "We cannot, we will not comply."  (Oh, and originally being a Kansas girl, please accept my apologies that my state ever elected HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius governor!)
"Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name; you are Mine!" (Isaiah 43:1)

Re: Contraceptive Mandate Goes Into Effect Today

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    I thought it wasn't until next August...but I could be wrong????  (I'm usually wrong though lol)  I'll have to check that out!
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    I figured I was wrong lol. I feel like I should be more up to date on this though, since it directly affects me :(     Thanks forthe clarification cfaszews25!! :o)
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    Confusion may also be from the fact that religious organizations have until August 1st of next year, while individual employers who are not formally religiously affiliated are affected starting today. I have seen a few items noting this fact so far today; only the usual suspects though.

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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_contraceptive-mandate-goes-into-effect-today?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:dc1c4323-0162-4a49-bf9e-147fcce65c3ePost:d2e73b67-5e9c-4c70-bbe7-40c79950b6f2">Re: Contraceptive Mandate Goes Into Effect Today</a>:
    [QUOTE]Confusion may also be from the fact that religious organizations have until August 1 st of next year, while individual employers who are not formally religiously affiliated are affected starting today. I have seen a few items noting this fact so far today; only the usual suspects though.
    Posted by caitriona87[/QUOTE]

    Thank you for clarifying, I knew something was happening next August!! :o)
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    I know many people will throw rocks at me, but I am kinda happy. Knowing my grandmother who passed away due to breast cancer due to not finding out sooner because she did not have coverage, this can help others out there now find out sooner. It should be a womens choice on what she wants to take or not take aka birth control. I understand the catholic faith and why we are agianst it, but let women choose. I may not be the best catholic, but I know my committement to God and helping others.
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_contraceptive-mandate-goes-into-effect-today?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:dc1c4323-0162-4a49-bf9e-147fcce65c3ePost:d621d3c5-8374-4c2f-8a51-f87bc1e4f747">Re: Contraceptive Mandate Goes Into Effect Today</a>:
    [QUOTE]I know many people will throw rocks at me, but I am kinda happy. <strong>Knowing my grandmother who passed away due to breast cancer due to not finding out sooner because she did not have coverage</strong>, this can help others out there now find out sooner. <strong>It should be a womens choice on what she wants to take or not take aka birth control</strong>. I understand the catholic faith and why we are agianst it, but let women choose. I may not be the best catholic, but I know my committement to God and helping others.
    Posted by pittpoint1119[/QUOTE]

    To the first bold... the contraceptive mandate has nothing to do with the rest of Obamacare.  You could have one and not the other.  I'm actually in favor of universal healthcare.  Some are not.  Either way, there's nothing against universal healthcare in catholic teaching, so a catholic could be for or against it.

    To the second bold... the debate is not over whether contraception should be legal.  A woman still would have the right to take it or not.  The debate is over whether employers should have to pay for contraception when their employees choose it. 

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    agapecarrieagapecarrie member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its Combo Breaker First Comment
    edited August 2012
    This mandate forces catholics to pay in to a program that murders people abortion pill and the pill its that simple. There is nothing to be happy about. typing from phone parenthesis don't work sorry fr bad grammar
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_contraceptive-mandate-goes-into-effect-today?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:dc1c4323-0162-4a49-bf9e-147fcce65c3ePost:08ecdedf-ace2-454a-8b13-b2884fba2878">Re: Contraceptive Mandate Goes Into Effect Today</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Contraceptive Mandate Goes Into Effect Today : To the first bold... the contraceptive mandate has nothing to do with the rest of Obamacare.  You could have one and not the other.  I'm actually in favor of universal healthcare.  Some are not.  Either way, there's nothing against universal healthcare in catholic teaching, so a catholic could be for or against it. <strong>To the second bold... the debate is not over whether contraception should be legal.  A woman still would have the right to take it or not.  The debate is over whether employers should have to pay for contraception when their employees choose it. </strong>
    Posted by monkeysip[/QUOTE]

    This.  I personally am so tired of people thinking that the Catholic Church is forcing woman not to use artificial birth control.  The Catholic Church isn't forcing anyone to do anything.  They just don't want to pay for something that goes against it's own teaching. 
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    Birth control for health reasons doesn't apply to what I'm about to say.... Sex has two basic purposes, from a totally secular standpoint. Procreation, and recreation. If you're doing it for the first, you don't use BC. Therefore, the gov is forcing everyone to pay for others' recreation. If you want to have recreational sex, go for it. But pay for it yourself, as we all do for our own recreation.

     

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    It does not go into effect fully today.  A good number of sections go into effective later in  August.  (pre election, of course)

    The more serious parts that anti birth control and anti abortion don't even come under consideration for another year.  I think by then, most people will have stopped their knee jerk reactions and will have really read what the mandate involves.  I honestly believe that most people have not a complete understanding of what is involved and what is not.

    The more I read about other peoples opinions, the less I believe they really read.  (and p.s., it's not all out there yet)
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    1) You're right oot, in the wonderful Nancy Pelosi's own words "Let's just pass this bill so we can find out what's in it."  (Really??? But don't get me started on that!)  We don't know half the crap that's in it, how scary is that?  Our government just passed a bill and they didn't know what was in it!                     

    2)  Healthcare will not be affordable now.  Your health insurance will sky rocket because now instead of just paying for yourself you are paying for everyone else too.            

    Welcome to socialist America, where the money you work hard for is NOT yours!
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    Oh and concerning birth control.  The researchers for Napro Technology have basically proved that birth control should not be used to "fix" any gynecological problems. It only covers symptoms.
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_contraceptive-mandate-goes-into-effect-today?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:dc1c4323-0162-4a49-bf9e-147fcce65c3ePost:232d1735-9c95-42da-aacf-9a5ee65a8a22">Re: Contraceptive Mandate Goes Into Effect Today</a>:
    [QUOTE]1) You're right oot, in the wonderful Nancy Pelosi's own words "Let's just pass this bill so we can find out what's in it."  (Really??? But don't get me started on that!)  We don't know half the crap that's in it, how scary is that?  Our government just passed a bill and they didn't know what was in it!                      2)  Healthcare will not be affordable now.  Your health insurance will sky rocket because now instead of just paying for yourself you are paying for everyone else too.             <strong>Welcome to socialist America, where the money you work hard for is NOT yours!</strong>
    Posted by shawna127[/QUOTE]

    I'm not necessarily defending the health bill, and I'm DEFINITELY not supporting the contraceptive mandate, but your last sentence really bothered me.

    The Church is <em>not</em> socialist, but according to Catholic social teaching, the money you "work hard" for is not yours, but God's.  And your excess belongs to those who are in need, not you.  In fact, when we don't give our excess to the poor, we're actually robbing them, not the other way around.  Having money, even when it is earned through hard work, comes with obligations. 

    The idea that our money belongs only to us because we work for it is a capitalist notion rooted in the Protestant work ethic.  Not Catholic social teaching.

    Sorry, you probably didn't mean that statement in the way I read it.  And like I said, I'm not defending socialism or even our current liberal government.  But we need to be careful not to embrace the neo-conservatism on the opposite side that is truly rooted in Protestantism, but headed towards secularism.

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    Maybe my post is overly passionate, but I think it needs to be said.

    The point of my post is that requring all Americans to chip in to care for those who don't have is not socialism.  Maybe this particular instance (Obamacare) is ineffective, convoluted, or unfair in some way, but it's not because it requires people to contribute to a distributive good.

    Like I said in my first post, maybe she didn't mean it that way, and I'm sorry if my post seems harsh, but I get very bristly when Conservative principles are equated with Catholic ones.

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    agapecarrieagapecarrie member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its Combo Breaker First Comment
    edited August 2012
    Chipping in to care for those without I think should be voluntary, through private organizations that follow a moral code you agree with--  not required by government under penalty of going to jail. 
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    The Church doesn't teach that, Agape.  It would be wonderful if charitable donations through private organizations took care of all the needs of society, but in a secular world, it doesn't.

    The Church holds that the government does have the right to enforce distributive justice when required.  The government cannot, however, enforce charity.  There is a difference between justice and charity. 

    To quote the catechism:

    "2402 In the beginning God entrusted the earth and its resources to the common stewardship of mankind to take care of them, master them by labor, and enjoy their fruits.187 The goods of creation are destined for the whole human race. However, the earth is divided up among men to assure the security of their lives, endangered by poverty and threatened by violence. The appropriation of property is legitimate for guaranteeing the freedom and dignity of persons and for helping each of them to meet his basic needs and the needs of those in his charge. It should allow for a natural solidarity to develop between men.

    2403 The right to private property, acquired or received in a just way, does not do away with the original gift of the earth to the whole of mankind. The universal destination of goods remains primordial, even if the promotion of the common good requires respect for the right to private property and its exercise.

    2404 "In his use of things man should regard the external goods he legitimately owns not merely as exclusive to himself but common to others also, in the sense that they can benefit others as well as himself."188 The ownership of any property makes its holder a steward of Providence, with the task of making it fruitful and communicating its benefits to others, first of all his family.

    2405 Goods of production - material or immaterial - such as land, factories, practical or artistic skills, oblige their possessors to employ them in ways that will benefit the greatest number. Those who hold goods for use and consumption should use them with moderation, reserving the better part for guests, for the sick and the poor.

    2406 Political authority has the right and duty to regulate the legitimate exercise of the right to ownership for the sake of the common good.189"


    The Universal destination of goods holds that those who lack basic needs have a right to them.  Their right obligates us.  The Church believes in private property (unlike socialists), but the right to private property is not an inalienable right, and it comes with obligations to those who don't have.

    Catholic Social Teaching centers on subsidiarity and solidarity.  You cannot have one without the other.  We have an obligation to keep solidarity with the poor, but at the lowest level possible in society.  Sometimes this is local charities, sometimes this is local government, sometimes this is state government, sometimes federal.  It depends on the circumstances.  But the point is that the government does exist to enforce distributive justice sometimes.

    Like I said before, I don't think this health bill was the best way to handle this need.  But the point is, requiring us to help those who need by law is not against Catholic teaching.


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    Does anyone know if this new mandate requires coverage of non-contraceptive family planning expenses, such as classes/materials for NFP? 
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_contraceptive-mandate-goes-into-effect-today?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:dc1c4323-0162-4a49-bf9e-147fcce65c3ePost:d621d3c5-8374-4c2f-8a51-f87bc1e4f747">Re: Contraceptive Mandate Goes Into Effect Today</a>:
    [QUOTE]I know many people will throw rocks at me, but I am kinda happy. Knowing my grandmother who passed away due to breast cancer due to not finding out sooner because she did not have coverage, this can help others out there now find out sooner. It should be a womens choice on what she wants to take or not take aka birth control. I understand the catholic faith and why we are agianst it, but let women choose. I may not be the best catholic, but I know my committement to God and helping others.
    Posted by pittpoint1119[/QUOTE]

    Believing in the separation of Church and State does NOT make you a bad Catholic at all!

    I am Catholic and personally anti abortion but I know that I don't have the right to force my beliefs on others not believing the same.  This mandate will NOT force women to have abortions or to use birth control.  it simply enables their choices, whether I personally agree with them or not.

    And freedom of religion and speech is what this country was founded on.
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    Separation of church and state has to go both ways, though.  The government cannot impose on a religious institution a practice that is against its moral code.

    I pretty much agree with you, OOT, that a person should have the right to choose any given medical service they want, I just don't agree that someone who finds that service morally reprehensible should have to pay for it.  I also have a not-so-secret wish that people who don't need these services would look into alternative solutions.

    I don't know why we keep running in the same circles with this argument.
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_contraceptive-mandate-goes-into-effect-today?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:dc1c4323-0162-4a49-bf9e-147fcce65c3ePost:407527d4-9c3e-4e73-b519-58f60f673576">Re: Contraceptive Mandate Goes Into Effect Today</a>:
    [QUOTE]Separation of church and state has to go both ways, though.  The government cannot impose on a religious institution a practice that is against its moral code.
    Posted by professorscience[/QUOTE]

    Yes. What is going on is an example of the state meddling in the church and making itself the judge of religious beliefs and practices--this is NOT separation of church and state.
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    monkey, I agree with what you are saying. As Catholics we are called to give to the poor and as you said everything we own is actually God’s. My problem is that the government is “requiring” us to pay for other people.  And not just the people who really and truly need it, but also for the big majority of people who are fully capable of working but found that it’s easier to live off of the government (and believe me that number is growing).  So yes, I believe that we should share our wealth with those who are less fortunate but I don’t want to be forced to give my money to someone who refuses to work because they can live off of hand outs.  And honestly, if the government keeps doing this even more people are going to take advantage of the system and there will be a minority of people working so where is all the money (government aid) going to come from then? 

     

    Hope that didn’t come across as mean, I was just trying to clarify.  But I do agree that we are called to and should share our wealth because there are those who truly need it.

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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_contraceptive-mandate-goes-into-effect-today?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:dc1c4323-0162-4a49-bf9e-147fcce65c3ePost:8956b6b9-b218-4909-b0e1-cf3461c0a351">Re: Contraceptive Mandate Goes Into Effect Today</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Contraceptive Mandate Goes Into Effect Today : Yes. What is going on is an example of the state meddling in the church and making itself the judge of religious beliefs and practices--this is NOT separation of church and state.
    Posted by caitriona87[/QUOTE]

    ^Perfectly said, I couldn't agree more! :o)
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    Nickie431Nickie431 member
    First Anniversary First Comment
    edited August 2012
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_contraceptive-mandate-goes-into-effect-today?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:dc1c4323-0162-4a49-bf9e-147fcce65c3ePost:56310022-5e91-400d-9873-255011648ddf">Re: Contraceptive Mandate Goes Into Effect Today</a>:
    [QUOTE]Does anyone know if this new mandate requires coverage of non-contraceptive family planning expenses, such as classes/materials for NFP? 
    Posted by mattylovesmilly[/QUOTE]

    <div>Unfortunately, from what I've read, natural alternatives to contrapection are NOT required to be covered.  I just saw a letter Dr. Thomas Hilgers, the developer of the Creighton Model of NFP, wrote to President Obama, in which he made the point that this exclusion is another form of religious discrimination by the government.  I hadn't thought of that angle before and do agree with his assessment.  Here's the link to his letter, as posted on the Pope Paul VI Institute's homepage: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.popepaulvi.com/PDF/letter-president.pdf">http://www.popepaulvi.com/PDF/letter-president.pdf</a>.  The point regarding NFP's exclusion is #6 on the second page.</div><div>
    </div><div>EDIT:  I think the Affordable Care Act requires all FDA-approved methods of contraception, including sterilization, to be covered at no cost to the patient.  This made me wonder about the possibility of NFP ever receiving FDA approval--not likely considering the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists' stated opinion of NFP as not valid.  However, I would be interested in learning more about how the FDA approval process is initiated.  I know there have been several scientific studies on the effectiveness of various NFP methods.  Anyone a pharmacist, etc. who could shed some light?</div>
    "Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name; you are Mine!" (Isaiah 43:1)
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