Need Advice

dyda1214

I am going to be going to grad school in the fall at a state school, but I am not a resident of the state my school is in.  My boyfriend is a resident of the state, and after trying to find a way to beat the system and get in state tuition the only way it seems possible is if I marry someone who is a resident of the state.

My boyfriend and I have been together for 3 years now and have been living together for 2 of the 3 years.  We are extremely happy and were planning on getting married eventually anyway.  

When I was talking to him about my financial situation I mentioned jokingly that they only way I could get instate was if I got married.  He looked at me very seriously and said "Ok".  I was completely taken aback because I had thought he didn't want to get married until we were both settled down with jobs and a home.  

He suggested we go to the court house and get married but not tell anyone we were wed because he still wants to have a ceremony and reception for our family and friends.  

I told him I had to at least tell my mom because I wouldn't feel right about this at all if I didn't.  When I told her she got extremely upset and hasn't talked to me since.  

I know it may seem like I'm marrying him to get a break on tuition and while it is nice, being married to him is something I've dreamed of for quite some time.  

Because I can't talk to any of my close friends about this I could use any sound advice at this moment.  Thanks!

dyda1214

I'm already around $30,000 in debt and grad school will add another $20,000

ksmith67

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_students_need-advice-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:684Discussion:d59d5c59-06a3-4ba0-a095-2b9be29dfb45Post:2e4e4575-b432-447e-84c0-00c5ac3e38bf">Need Advice</a>:
[QUOTE]I am going to be going to grad school in the fall at a state school, but I am not a resident of the state my school is in.  My boyfriend is a resident of the state, and after trying to find a way to beat the system and get in state tuition the only way it seems possible is if I marry someone who is a resident of the state. My boyfriend and I have been together for 3 years now and have been living together for 2 of the 3 years.  We are extremely happy and were planning on getting married eventually anyway.   When I was talking to him about my financial situation I mentioned jokingly that they only way I could get instate was if I got married.  He looked at me very seriously and said "Ok".  I was completely taken aback because I had thought he didn't want to get married until we were both settled down with jobs and a home.   He suggested we go to the court house and get married but not tell anyone we were wed because he still wants to have a ceremony and reception for our family and friends.   I told him I had to at least tell my mom because I wouldn't feel right about this at all if I didn't.  When I told her she got extremely upset and hasn't talked to me since.   I know it may seem like I'm marrying him to get a break on tuition and while it is nice, being married to him is something I've dreamed of for quite some time.   Because I can't talk to any of my close friends about this I could use any sound advice at this moment.  Thanks!
Posted by dyda1214[/QUOTE]

This just sounds very deceptive and like a very bad way to start off your life.  If you get married at the courthouse then you will be married, any ceremony you have later would be a vow renewal and if guests found out you were already married they would feel cheated and lied to.  If you have been living in the state for 2 years(which I would assume since you say he is a resident and you have been living together), then you should be able to file as being a resident of that state by changing your drivers license etc. 

Saving yourself from being in debt by lying to your family and friends about being married is just flat out wrong.

tldh

You are getting married for the wrong reasons and going about it in the worst way possible.  I don't blame your mom for being angry with you.

I am going to assume that when you applied to the school, you were well aware that you were not a state resident and would be paying out of state tuition, so why wasn't this factored into your decision making?  States have an interest in helping their citizens attain higher education within the state.  To try to "beat" the system shows a serious character flaw on your part.  If I were your mom I'd be furious about this part.

If you attain residency in the new state, after a year (depending on the new state) you should be able to get in state tuition for the remainder of your time.

EDIT:  $50,000 grand total debt isn't outgrageous.  That is my debt from law school alone.

TriSaratops10

I agree with all PP and have nothing much more to add - I also agree with tldh your debt isn't outrageous at all - it is about income potential vs. debt. 

For example, most of my fellow med school friends have upwards of 200K in debt (med school in state is about 30K/yr for most schools) and make about 40K in residency (ie after graduating) for 3-7 years depending on specialty --- but the way we handle it is that *hopefully* our income potential will be able to pay off that debt.

I know its very daunting taking on so much debt, but really if you are going into a career with a decent income potential you will be fine.

dyda1214

I have been living in the state for enough time but in order to obtain residency in the state there are hundreds of little factors that'd I'd have to fulfill, many of which I don't.  And while I know this debt isn't as bad as it could be, I am going to be a teacher, which means I'm not going to be earning as much as a lawyer or doctor.  I also chose to stay at this school where I did my undergrad because I met my boyfriend.  I could have gone back to my legal state, but that was about six hours away from him, and something I really didn't want to do.  I have exhausted all my options already from applying to many different graduate assistant positions, attempting to get the school to give me a similar scholarship that they gave me during my undergrad, the main reason i went there (in-state tuition).  

dyda1214

Also, I meant it'd be $20k savings, I'll cost me $40k-50k for grad school.  

LauraT25

Two things:

1.  If you do get married, DON'T KEEP IT A SECRET
2.  At my school, being married to a resident wouldn't affect my resident status.  I need to show proof in the form of a lease AND a bill or bank statement sent to an address in my state that is at least a year old.  You should check, it may not even be an issue. 

dyda1214

The state i'm going to school in is weird.  Just having a driver's license and voter ID card is not enough.  I've looked through all the state requirements and call our enrollment office and they said if I was to marry a resident, that would make me a resident, I'd just need to show updated paperwork and my new IDs as well as his.  I've already been living in the state for several years, so I have proof of residency, but since I am not 100% financially independent (my helps me out with bills from time to time) that automatically makes it so I cannot claim to be an independent, even though for tax purposes I am.  

It's extremely frustrating to me, especially since I've already given 4 years of my time and money to this university and they won't cut me a break at all.  

My only thing is, what would be the difference between this and if we eloped.  I mean I guess we would tell people, but I had a friend who just went off got married showed up one day and was like oh hey i'm married.  She had a reception several months later and I don't think anyone was really freakin out about it.  

LauraT25

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_students_need-advice-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:684Discussion:d59d5c59-06a3-4ba0-a095-2b9be29dfb45Post:cbd80077-f674-48eb-90ec-f96da8bdb620">Re: Need Advice</a>:
[QUOTE]   My only thing is, what would be the difference between this and if we eloped.  I mean I guess we would tell people, but I had a friend who just went off got married showed up one day and was like oh hey i'm married.  She had a reception several months later and I don't think anyone was really freakin out about it.  
Posted by dyda1214[/QUOTE]

Well, you said you would get married and not tell anyone.  When people elope, they do come back and tell people.

As for the residency - it sounds like you did make sure that marrying your FI would straighten that out, so that's at least taken care of!

stephdonjon

$50,000 total? I have to borrow that for this year of grad school of alone. Even if what your planning wasn't deceptive and a horrible reason to get married, $50,000 total college debt is not worth considering this.

Instead of saving money, save face with your family and friends who would undoubtedly be hurt if they found out you hid a marriage from them and then staged a wedding afterward.

To me, it wouldn't even feel special. I'd already be married; what's the point of spending the money on the wedding and reception just for show, especially if debt is the reason you're contemplating this to begin with.

I echo others: don't do it.

TriSaratops10

I just got back from coffee with a friend who's a teacher and it just reminded me of something - she is pursuing her masters now (after having taught about 4 yrs) - with the county paying a significant portion.  Is that an option for you? To teach with a bachelors degree --> move to new state --> teach there for a yr or 2 --> get the county to help offset some of the costs of a masters?

 I know that it means delaying getting your masters some, but, the cost of getting said degree might end up costing you more than the difference in salary once you figure in interest rates.

Just a thought...

tldh

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_students_need-advice-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:684Discussion:d59d5c59-06a3-4ba0-a095-2b9be29dfb45Post:86e77613-b6c6-4eaa-9a94-6dbd28791c95">Re: Need Advice</a>:
[QUOTE]I just got back from coffee with a friend who's a teacher and it just reminded me of something - she is pursuing her masters now (after having taught about 4 yrs) - with the county paying a significant portion.  Is that an option for you? To teach with a bachelors degree -- /> move to new state --> teach there for a yr or 2 --> get the county to help offset some of the costs of a masters?  I know that it means delaying getting your masters some, but, the cost of getting said degree might end up costing you more than the difference in salary once you figure in interest rates. Just a thought...
Posted by TriSaratops10[/QUOTE]

Good point.

OP - you can try to justify it all you want but at the end of the day, what you are contemplating is just wrong.

MrsMLRB

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_students_need-advice-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:684Discussion:d59d5c59-06a3-4ba0-a095-2b9be29dfb45Post:e6b73bcc-dc48-4efd-a235-5f9e5f7eb699">Re: Need Advice</a>:
[QUOTE]I have been living in the state for enough time but in order to obtain residency in the state there are hundreds of little factors that'd I'd have to fulfill, many of which I don't.  And while I know this debt isn't as bad as it could be, I am going to be a <strong>teacher</strong>, which means I'm not going to be earning as much as a lawyer or doctor.  I also chose to stay at this school where I did my undergrad because I met my boyfriend.  I could have gone back to my legal state, but that was about six hours away from him, and something I really didn't want to do.  I have exhausted all my options already from applying to many different graduate assistant positions, attempting to get the school to give me a similar scholarship that they gave me during my undergrad, the main reason i went there (in-state tuition).  
Posted by dyda1214[/QUOTE]

First, teachers can get their federal loans forgiven after 5 years of teaching in low income districts.

Second, that is a waste of money for a teaching degree. In the world of education, it doesn't matter if you go to a really good school or not. I went to the top public university in my state and had fewer interviews than my coworker who went to the school that was a known teaching university and cost $10,000 less a year.

Third, the teaching market sucks right now. Most districts are laying off. I would seriously reconsider this career choice especially with any debt. Plus, with a masters degree, you will be very expensive to hire with no experience.

dyda1214

I can't be a teacher without certification.  I got my undergrad in Music, not education.  

I'm going to a state school, not a private school, but it is still out of state, which means it is more expensive.

I am going to this school because I don't want to move home, I'd like to stay here with my boyfriend, also all the schools I looked at home are private or state but would require me to do an additional 2 years of school before I could go to grad school.  I have thought this out, my luck just didn't go my way when I applied for GA positions.  That was my plan, to get one of those.  I would have had all of my education paid, health insurance and a stipend, but I didn't get one.  So I could either sit around for a few years and work a shitty job, or get my Master's and begin my career. 

ksmith67

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_students_need-advice-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:684Discussion:d59d5c59-06a3-4ba0-a095-2b9be29dfb45Post:6629f933-77b7-437a-ac4b-7d094e402dd4">Re: Need Advice</a>:
[QUOTE]I can't be a teacher without certification.  I got my undergrad in Music, not education.   I'm going to a state school, not a private school, but it is still out of state, which means it is more expensive. I am going to this school because I don't want to move home, I'd like to stay here with my boyfriend, also all the schools I looked at home are private or state but would require me to do an additional 2 years of school before I could go to grad school.  I have thought this out, my luck just didn't go my way when I applied for GA positions.  That was my plan, to get one of those.  I would have had all of my education paid, health insurance and a stipend, but I didn't get one.  So I could either sit around for a few years and work a shitty job, or get my Master's and begin my career. 
Posted by dyda1214[/QUOTE]

I'm also at a state school, paying out of state tuition(with loans all in my own name) to get an education degree, but I would NEVER consider hiding a marriage from my family in order to get instate tuition. Before I came to this school(2 years ago) I spent 3 years at a private instate school, paying for all my own tuition, so my loans are much higher than most peoples--yet- I'm not getting married and hiding it to lower that bill.  I'm going to the school I want to go to, paying the tuition that I knew I would be paying when I applied, not getting any help from my parents, and planning a wedding for after I graduate.  No matter how you justify it, hiding the fact that you are getting married from your family will always be wrong to probably 95% of people.

tldh

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_students_need-advice-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:684Discussion:d59d5c59-06a3-4ba0-a095-2b9be29dfb45Post:6629f933-77b7-437a-ac4b-7d094e402dd4">Re: Need Advice</a>:
[QUOTE]I can't be a teacher without certification.  I got my undergrad in Music, not education.   I'm going to a state school, not a private school, but it is still out of state, which means it is more expensive. I am going to this school because I don't want to move home, I'd like to stay here with my boyfriend, also all the schools I looked at home are private or state but <strong>would require me to do an additional 2 years of school before I could go to grad school</strong>.  I have thought this out, my luck just didn't go my way when I applied for GA positions.  That was my plan, to get one of those.  I would have had all of my education paid, health insurance and a stipend, but I didn't get one.  So I could either sit around for a few years and work a shitty job, or get my Master's and begin my career. 
Posted by dyda1214[/QUOTE]

If you have a bachelor's degree, why would any other school require another two years before starting your grad program?  I'm really curious which school you are talking about because I grew up in Cincinanti and Kentucky.

Also, there's nothing stopping you from working and going to grad school.  I worked about 30 hours a week my second and third years of law school (including Moot Court for both years so it was more stress and academic work than your average student).

MrsMLRB

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_students_need-advice-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:684Discussion:d59d5c59-06a3-4ba0-a095-2b9be29dfb45Post:6629f933-77b7-437a-ac4b-7d094e402dd4">Re: Need Advice</a>:
[QUOTE]I can't be a teacher without certification.  I got my undergrad in Music, not education.   I'm going to a state school, not a private school, but it is still out of state, which means it is more expensive. I am going to this school because I don't want to move home, I'd like to stay here with my boyfriend, also all the schools I looked at home are private or state but would require me to do an additional 2 years of school before I could go to grad school.  I have thought this out, my luck just didn't go my way when I applied for GA positions.  That was my plan, to get one of those.  I would have had all of my education paid, health insurance and a stipend, but I didn't get one.  So I could either sit around for a few years and work a shitty job, or get my Master's and begin my career. 
Posted by dyda1214[/QUOTE]

I hope you aren't going to become a music educator because in our high stakes world music is going out the window (sad but true). I had 3 friends who went to undergrad to become teachers: one has a full time teaching position since he graduated from his unimpressive unranked public university, one has had 3 jobs in 3 years (2 part time) and now can't find a position at all and one has been working part time for 2 years. Neither of them are really started in their careers. But the crappy teaching market isn't the issue here.

Getting married to get in state tuition is lying. People receive instate tuition because they paid property taxes for years to subsidize that school. You want to cut that down just because you don't want to pay for it. If you want instate tuition, go to a school in the state you are a resident of (or your parents are).

My fiance is a law student in Minnesota and has owned property here for several years and he still pays out of state tuition. Do the loans suck? Absolutely. But it is what it is.

Also, as someone said, I would double check that you would get in state tuition if you were married because that seems like a strange rule.

And if you get married, don't hide it and don't plan a PPD a few years later. Either do a JOP wedding and call it your wedding and you are married or don't.

MrsMLRB

Oh and I am sorry if my post comes off as harsh but I don't want you to spend a ton of money getting trained in a career that will be hard to find a job.

Also something to consider: the school I work at gets tuition waivers for graduate school classes when we take on student teachers and observers. It would definitely be worth it to get a full time job at a school that does this (as a special ed aid, a dean's assistant, a secretary) and then attend graduate school part time to get your education degree (there are a lot of programs that are nights part time). This would save you money and get you very little loans and give you contacts in the field for when you are looking for a job.

ledalia

I understand your reasons, I really do. But it doesn't sound like you and your boyfriend have really sat down and seriously discussed marriage. Rushing your marriage is never a good idea. If you did your undergrad at this school, then I assume you paid out of state tuition. You could have changed your license and other items to get your residency, but you didn't.

I actually did a JOP a few months ago and we are having our ceremony/reception for family and friends in November. We did this because my school unexpectedly doubled tuition and I was affected since I have been in school for over four years due to two majors. I don't mind debt but I did not qualify for enough loans for pay for school as a "dependent" student. I don't regret my decision and we would have just moved up the wedding except we had already been planning for eight months and spent a lot of money. I never planned to do this but emergencies happen. It sounds like you have been aware of this and just want to be married, for the wrong reasons.

If you two decide that you really want to be married, get engaged and plan your wedding. You can do it right and qualify for the in-state tuition before you are done with grad school.

dyda1214

Kentucky is odd about their rules, I've called multiple times because I really am trying to get the best deal.  I cannot just change my driver's license and get instate tuition.  Because I am not 100% financially independent that makes it so I cannot get instate tuition in their eyes, even if I have been living and renting properties here for 4 years as well as working and paying state taxes.  It sucks.  

To be a teacher most Master's programs require you to do pre-req courses to train you in the basics of the education classes.  I fit the pre-reqs into my undergrad so I didn't have to do a post-bacc and pay more money to get them done.  So, the school I'm looking back home in PA would require me to take all of their pre-reqs to be able to enroll in their program.  Again, I don't want to go back home because that would be six hours away from the boy.  

I'm not planning on doing Music Ed, tho I'd be certified to do so with my undergrad degree. I'm getting my master's in El Ed so I have a much broader field to find work.  

I am also going to be working, three jobs in fact so it's not like I'm just begging for hand outs.  I'm just trying to get the most from the University that I already gave a lot too, but they seem to be extremely stingy with their grad students.  

I've applied for a bunch of teaching scholarships, but since I wasn't admitted until later in the year I missed the deadline for Fall semester, here's hoping it works out in the spring.  

We've talked about being married for a long time now, it's not something that is just like "oh hey, we can save a boat load of money by switching you to my name" it was just a situation that arose and was like, well...hey this might make sense.  But the more we talk about it the more we realize how much we would miss out on the whole "excitement" of being engaged/planning a wedding.  Granted I could care less about an engagement ring, I still did not want to keep it a secret.  

Thanks for everyone's input and giving me some things to think about. 

yummyravioli

Hi,
I don't want to start any fights.. but a lot of people posting seem really hard on you for trying to figure out your situation and build a happy life in the best way possible. Sometimes there are not just the few "typical" obstacles/challenges, but many complicated difficulties compounding around major life events like beginning a career and getting married, and I wish people would be more open-minded and understanding of others' plights.
When my fiance and I first talked about getting married, it was in relation to finding a way to live together in the US. I met him while studying abroad in Argentina and over the months we discovered we would never want to be apart. But.. he was a student and working in Buenos Aires, I had to return as a student in Rhode Island, and my family is in Washington state. We don't have any extra money to travel all the time (I was abroad due to funding from my Brown University scholarship), and we could only visit each other as tourists, with a 90 day limit. After one year of doing everything we could think of to save money and travel to spend time together, staying at his parents' house, taking extra jobs and even creating entrepreneurial ventures, we decided we needed to find a way for one of us to immigrate so we could legally live and work together. After doing a lot of research, we realized the only way to get a visa within the next several years would be to marry.
We talked a lot about what you're thinking of, getting married and not telling anyone, afraid that our families wouldn't understand how we felt or accept our decision. However, in the end we decided to take more time to complete the fiance visa process and get married with friends and family present. It has been difficult, emotionally and financially, for us to have to be apart much of the time since we made that decision last August. In November he formally proposed, and we submitted visa applications and started wedding planning. In October we will finally get married. Although they shared the kind of "concerned" reaction you're getting now at first, in more time our friends and family had the chance to see how very happy we are together and that getting married is no mistake for us. And the extra time waiting, as agonizing as it has been, has allowed us to feel more confident in each other, in getting married.
So.. I understand your reasons, and they are very valid. But, I suggest that you don't rush into it too much either. Even though your family doesn't seem supportive at the moment, show them why you feel you are ready to marry and that you are truly happy with your boyfriend, and if they love you they will support you.
Hope that helps.
Good luck!

tldh

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_students_need-advice-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:684Discussion:d59d5c59-06a3-4ba0-a095-2b9be29dfb45Post:0cc67b58-0b34-49ba-957b-222c80a33a18">Re: Need Advice</a>:
[QUOTE]Hi, I don't want to start any fights.. but a lot of people posting seem really hard on you for trying to figure out your situation and build a happy life in the best way possible. Sometimes there are not just the few "typical" obstacles/challenges, but many complicated difficulties compounding around major life events like beginning a career and getting married, and I wish people would be more open-minded and understanding of others' plights. When my fiance and I first talked about getting married, it was in relation to finding a way to live together in the US. I met him while studying abroad in Argentina and over the months we discovered we would never want to be apart. But.. he was a student and working in Buenos Aires, I had to return as a student in Rhode Island, and my family is in Washington state. We don't have any extra money to travel all the time (I was abroad due to funding from my Brown University scholarship), and we could only visit each other as tourists, with a 90 day limit. After one year of doing everything we could think of to save money and travel to spend time together, staying at his parents' house, taking extra jobs and even creating entrepreneurial ventures, we decided we needed to find a way for one of us to immigrate so we could legally live and work together. After doing a lot of research, we realized the only way to get a visa within the next several years would be to marry. We talked a lot about what you're thinking of, getting married and not telling anyone, afraid that our families wouldn't understand how we felt or accept our decision. However, in the end we decided to take more time to complete the fiance visa process and get married with friends and family present. It has been difficult, emotionally and financially, for us to have to be apart much of the time since we made that decision last August. In November he formally proposed, and we submitted visa applications and started wedding planning. In October we will finally get married. Although they shared the kind of "concerned" reaction you're getting now at first, in more time our friends and family had the chance to see how very happy we are together and that getting married is no mistake for us. And the extra time waiting, as agonizing as it has been, has allowed us to feel more confident in each other, in getting married. So.. I understand your reasons, and they are very valid. But, I suggest that you don't rush into it too much either. Even though your family doesn't seem supportive at the moment, show them why you feel you are ready to marry and that you are truly happy with your boyfriend, and if they love you they will support you. Hope that helps. Good luck!
Posted by yummyravioli[/QUOTE]

Your situation is nothing like OP's.  You and your DH were being kept apart.  That's not the case here.  She is trying to find a way to cheat a financial aid system so that she doesn't have to pay out of state tuition.  Any way you look at her situation, even before you get into the family dynamics, what she wants to do is dishonest and it is incredibly offensive to those of us who put ourselves through undergrad and grad school the honest way.  For me that meant working full time and going to school full time in undergrad which means I didn't get to have a life or the college experience.  I had to take out loans for law school but by my second year I was working 24-32 hours a week during the semesters and 40 hours a week at all other times.  So, no, there is no way in hell I am going to feel sorry for her or agree with what she is trying to do in even the slightest bit.

slc&aoc

Great suggestion Lynnie. 
I moved to Texas during undergrad and coughed up over $25K for that first year. 
Does the residency office absolutely suck? Heck yes. Is the process a mess? Oh yah. What you may want to consider since you have been living in the state is a "plea" or whatever you want to call it. There are a lot of options for optaining TX residency - most of then having to occur at least a year (drivers license, work, property, etc) so I would just advise that you know from-the-source what your requirements are. If anything sit down with one of the specialists and explain start-to-finish what you've done the last few years and see what exactly needs to be done. If that doesn't work, our finaid office here has what's called a 'special circumstances appeal' which means that when they see your finaid info they also have additional info in consideration (i.e. you're under 25 but support yourself 95/100% so parental tax info really means nothing for the situation) After filing that I got a $5k grant which was a huge blessing.

I feel your pain but getting married and especially not telling anyone is not going to make you or anyone else feel any better. And hey, if the extra money is just something you cannot put up with then take a year off to work (may not be your ideal field, but w/e) and fulfill those requirements and you'll go back to school and into a marriage knowing it's what you want not just a good alternative to a bad situation. Good Luck!