Complicated photographer issue

fabutan

Hi everyone,
Our wedding was earlier this month.  We just found out that our florist had brought her own photographer/friend, who took photos of our wedding decor while they were setting up.  She hadn't asked us for permission (i.e. not in her contract) and we already had our own official photographer.  Some photos weren't just of florals, but also of other decor that I spent a lot of time putting together.
We've since contacted the florist's photographer to ask about obtaining copies.  But the photog wants to charge us for the photos.  I have mixed feelings about paying for something, which we didn't know about in the first place!
What's your viewpoint on this?  Any words of advice on what we should do?  Should we pay for the photos that were taken without our consent in the first place?  TIA!!

motoLyn

I think that if they did not ask you permission to take pictures of your wedding other than the floral, then they have no right to post or show any of the pictures of the decor that you took the time to do.  I would be leery as well of paying for something that I didn't ask for in the first place.  But it is their work.  Unless the pictures were spectacular and caught angles that your own photographer wasn't able to get then I wouldn't buy them.  I would though pursue the whole privacy and permission angle.  Good luck and keep us posted.

AKWinterBride

Are you sure there was nothing in the contract?  I know I signed releases for several of my vendors to take/use pictures from our wedding.  Sometimes they sneak it in the fine print.  If you want the pics, buy them, but don't feel like you have to buy them. 

breaness

I agree, you should buy the photos if you want them since the photographer still put their time in and it's still their work. Sure, you weren't their client, but the point is that it's their image and if you want the rights to it you should pay. But don't feel obligated to buy them since you didn't hire them to begin with. Have you seen your official photographer's work? Did this person capture anything they didn't?

fabutan

Thanks girls!  It's funny how we're still plagued with such "unique problems" even after our wedding!  lol  

Yes, we double-checked the contract and there was nothing that mentioned photos.  I still think there is something fishy about them charging for photos when we didn't give them permission or hire the photog in the first place.

We're not super keen/eager about the photos...so we probably won't pay an arm and a leg for them.  We haven't received our official ones yet, so I can't compare them.  However, if the florist is using photos for commercial/advertising purposes, I think it should be common courtesy that we have copies for personal use.  Afterall, it was a private affair and not public...maybe it's just me?

[Deleted User]

Wow this IS complicated. It sounds like it would be courteous for the florist to give those to you but I don't think they're obligated. I think you should wait to see your professional pictures before paying for anything from the florist. Your photographer might have taken some great ones already!

breaness

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/local-wedding-boards_hawaii_complicated-photographer-issue?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Local%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:73Discussion:fe219717-3a68-427e-93d4-4187a83088edPost:22f287da-bc10-45c5-b67d-e10c8070cbfb">Re: Complicated photographer issue</a>:
[QUOTE]Thanks girls!  It's funny how we're still plagued with such "unique problems" even after our wedding!  lol  :) Yes, we double-checked the contract and there was nothing that mentioned photos.  I still think there is something fishy about them charging for photos when we didn't give them permission or hire the photog in the first place. We're not super keen/eager about the photos...so we probably won't pay an arm and a leg for them.  We haven't received our official ones yet, so I can't compare them.  <strong>However, if the florist is using photos for commercial/advertising purposes, I think it should be common courtesy that we have copies for personal use.</strong>  Afterall, it was a private affair and not public...maybe it's just me?
Posted by fabutan[/QUOTE]

<div>See, as a photographer I have mixed feelings about this. It wasn't the florist who took the photos, it was a photographer that they brought. If I was hired by a florist to do the photos I wouldn't just give them away for free because it's still my work and I still deserve to be paid for the right to the photos. If the florist took her own pictures, sure, she should give you them for free, but since a real photographer was involved, unfortunately, there should be a cost associated.</div><div>
</div><div>The other side of this is that they should not be able to use them for commercial or advertising purposes without you signing a release giving them permission to do so. They can use photos of THEIR work, but not photos of YOUR decor. I can not and will not post photos of clients or their work on my website to show off my photography without a signed release form indicating that they A.) know that I'm doing so and B.) authorize me to do so. I have some clients who opt out of my photos being used online entirely, some who say I can do my website but not facebook, but I reserve the right to use physical copies for portfolio purposes without explicit permission.</div>

fabutan

Thanks for your advice in all of this - it definitely turned into a bigger issue than we expected yesterday!  I 100% agree that the photographer was "caught in the middle" of all of this.  I think the issue is that the florist should've gotten our approval first before bringing in her own photographer...or at least taken floral only photos (and not the rest).  It's probably encroaching on our own hired/official photographer's exclusivity clause in her contract, as they both probably captured images of similar elements.  Haven't checked with our photog how she feels about this yet!

I guess the problem isn't so much whether the florist's photog should be paid for copies of the images or not....but whether they should've been taken in the first place.  Can any vendor bring in their own photog to take photos of wedding details without approval from the couple?  Doesn't that encroach on our own photog?  Hmmm....weird situation!  

breaness

I think taking them for their own use is fine. Taking them to distribute? Probably not. 

AKWinterBride

I agree with Brea.  If your florist is just using them for personal reasons (portfolio, etc.), then that is fine.  If she were to try to misrepresent your work as her own, that would be an issue.  Have you spoken with your florist and asked if she could not post any pictures of the decor that you were responsible for?  Also, are they planning to post these just to a blog, or are they using them in advertisements?  If they are just posting them on a blog, just ask them to give you credit for the decor that you took care of.  If they are using them for advertising purposes, you should have to sign a release for any work that you did. 

I really don't know if exclusivity issues would apply here since this wasn't a second shooter that you bought in to take pictures of your wedding - it's just a photog the florist uses to capture images of her work.   Hmmmm, this is a tough one.  I would really try to talk to your florist and get an idea of what she is hoping to use them for, and then ask for credit where it is due.

As far as getting the pictures the florists photog took, I think it is fair that they would ask for payment as they were contracted via the florist and not you guys.  I'm sure you own photog took great photos of the decor that you already paid for!! 

fabutan

UPDATE:  So, we figured out a solution!  The florist's photog was sympathetic to our case...the florist, not so much....    So the photog agreed to send us "watermarked" images for personal use.  At least we'll be able to view what was taken and we don't have to buy full digital files!  I think she also realized that a lot of photos were taken of non-floral items and the florist definitely should've checked with us first.  So relieved!!  

maui2011

Sorry but i am not liking this at all...for the florist to not even ask for permission to take photos is just wrong and for having her photog take photos of other items not related to her work is just not right period.  Personally, i would demand that she not use any photos and that the images especially the non-floral ones either be destroyed or they pay you for their use...ie give you a good percentage off of what you paid her.  I totally understand that the other photog is in a difficult position but at the same time if the photog is a professional they should know what they can and cannot shoot.  If it is stipulated in your contract with your florist that they can take images of their own work then fine they could use those images for advertising/publicity but if not then no way.  I am not a lawyer but i would think that this can cause some issues with your photographer as they were the only ones with permisson to shoot your wedding.  Sorry to chime in soo late just my 5 cents. J. :-)

fabutan

maui2011 - couldn't agree with you more!  My husband feels even more strongly about it than I do...he's very much about contracts, lol!  At the end of the day, we agreed to think "oh well" at least the wedding went off without a hitch.  If I were in the wedding industry (which I'm not), I'd definitely kick up more of a fuss!  I'm just glad we'll have copies to see what images were taken, even if they end up in someone else's portfolio.  It's a grey area, that's for sure...