Debt

Calypso1977

did you guys see this?
i dont think id marry someone with that much debt.

http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/110604/how-debt-can-destroy-a-budding-relationship 

btrflykate1230

I could if it was a mortgage. Anything else? Probably not.

btrflykate1230

HEY!

Lisa J. B. Peterson, a financial planner with Lantern Financial in Boston, specializes in counseling young couples and has heard this story before. About half the people she sees are both bringing significant debt to the relationship, and about a quarter of the others have one person who has a pile of student loans.

I know her!

rbtrumpet

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_debt?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:0cf4c943-7641-43ab-acfd-c97aaccd9829Post:800cadcd-fca5-4054-ad0f-aa924c36b3f2">Re: Debt</a>:
[QUOTE]I could if it was a mortgage. Anything else? Probably not.
Posted by btrflykate1230[/QUOTE]

or med school loans, I could understand that.




but bachelor's in photography?  probably not...

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

Really, though $170,000 vs. $100,000? I'm not sure why the former is a deal breaker when the other isn't.

I wouldn't NOT marry someone over that, but you have to realize that you aren't going to get to take vacations, buy a house any time soon, or probably have a new car, because you'll be paying off debt. And if you do make a major purchase, it will probably have to be in the other spouse's name. So I guess you can weigh the downside with the upside. You know, marrying the person you love.

Plus, it's student loan debt, so it's fixed payments and the interest is probably low. Even so, yeah, 170k for anything less than a JD or MD is ridiculous.

stephl3055

My SIL is recently engaged and has over $100k in medical school loans.  Sure she'll be able to pay it off, but it still makes you think twice about getting into a relationship with someone that has that much debt.

FutureMrsTR

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_debt?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:0cf4c943-7641-43ab-acfd-c97aaccd9829Post:4a6e1ea1-e13e-42b1-a21f-542321083dff">Re: Debt</a>:
[QUOTE]Really, though $170,000 vs. $100,000? I'm not sure why the former is a deal breaker when the other isn't. I wouldn't NOT marry someone over that, but you have to realize that you aren't going to get to take vacations, buy a house any time soon, or probably have a new car, because you'll be paying off debt. And if you do make a major purchase, it will probably have to be in the other spouse's name. So I guess you can weigh the downside with the upside. You know, marrying the person you love. Plus, it's student loan debt, so it's fixed payments and the interest is probably low. Even so, yeah, 170k for anything less than a JD or MD is ridiculous.
Posted by msmerymac[/QUOTE]

Ditto pretty much all of this.  I love H.  I can't imagine not being with him and I've felt that way since very early on in our relationship.  I don't think I would have NOT married him if the debt was accrued in a non-reckless way (student loan vs. a gambling problem).

bellebride116

It's 70k more... if 70k was a that much of a deal breaker since he already knew she had 100k then they prob shouldn't be getting married.  

quotequeen

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_debt?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:0cf4c943-7641-43ab-acfd-c97aaccd9829Post:4a6e1ea1-e13e-42b1-a21f-542321083dff">Re: Debt</a>:
[QUOTE]Really, though $170,000 vs. $100,000? I'm not sure why the former is a deal breaker when the other isn't. I wouldn't NOT marry someone over that, but you have to realize that you aren't going to get to take vacations, buy a house any time soon, or probably have a new car, because you'll be paying off debt. And if you do make a major purchase, it will probably have to be in the other spouse's name. So I guess you can weigh the downside with the upside. You know, marrying the person you love. Plus, it's student loan debt, so it's fixed payments and the interest is probably low. Even so, yeah, 170k for anything less than a JD or MD is ridiculous.
Posted by msmerymac[/QUOTE]

I dunno, there some big red flags in that story.  First, she didn't even know how much debt she had, which demonstrates financial irresponsibility.  Second, it was probably a very poor decision to take on that much debt in the first place when most of it was for an undergrad degree in photography.  I would probably be questioning if that was really the type of person I wanted to marry.

MeganAngela

The question is, how much debt is too much debt?  Most young people, including myself, have a handful of college loans.  Not all of them are as high as the people listed in the article, but it is still debt.  What is the point where you have to say that you can't be with someone with debt?  Does it truly depend on the type of debt?  I think it should.  I'd rather be with someone who had $30,000 of college loans than $30,000 of credit card debt.  Then again, if someone had that much debt from a mistake that they had made when they were younger, but were handling it admirably now, I don't know if that would stop me from marrying them either.  Buttttt, I come from a family where there was never any money to begin with.  Money and having things is a lot less important to some people than it is to others.

IDK.  I just hear this a lot, and I can't decide where I stand on the issue.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_debt?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:0cf4c943-7641-43ab-acfd-c97aaccd9829Post:ec1184f2-ee79-405f-ac3c-60fb7d2d2924">Re: Debt</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Debt : I dunno, there some big red flags in that story.  First, she didn't even know how much debt she had, which demonstrates financial irresponsibility.  Second, it was probably a very poor decision to take on that much debt in the first place when most of it was for an undergrad degree in photography.  I would probably be questioning if that was really the type of person I wanted to marry.
Posted by quotequeen[/QUOTE]

For sure, if I found that out early in the relationship. But since FI and I are engaged, it would really take a lot more than finding out he had more student loan debt than I thought for me to leave him. A LOT more. We're pretty up front about money, even though we have separate accounts, and we know each other's debt, bills and income, though. We've been living together for 2.5 years.

But hey, if that's a deal breaker, better to get out now, I guess.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

I do agree with Mandy's point, but I doubt someone with a BA in photography makes 6 figures. She should have gone to a state school if she didn't have the means to pay for at least part of her education without loans. Or some place she could have gotten a scholarship.

And this is coming from someone who went to a $30k/year school. I came out with exactly $2,750 in student loans. I never would have done it if I had to take out $30k/year. The thought of that makes me sick.

ThePinkSuperhero

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_debt?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:0cf4c943-7641-43ab-acfd-c97aaccd9829Post:ec1184f2-ee79-405f-ac3c-60fb7d2d2924">Re: Debt</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Debt : I dunno, there some big red flags in that story.  First, she didn't even know how much debt she had, which demonstrates financial irresponsibility.  Second, it was probably a very poor decision to take on that much debt in the first place when most of it was for an undergrad degree in photography.  I would probably be questioning if that was really the type of person I wanted to marry.
Posted by quotequeen[/QUOTE]

I totally agree.  And for her to say that, oh, I thought it was 100k, but it was really 170k... really?  She has that little grasp on her personal finances, 70k here 70k there?

mica178

Xray techs in SF actually make pretty good money. 

I think the bigger issue is that she lied about the amount of debt.  Also maybe if the 70k difference in debt mattered that much to the guy, he wasn't really committed to their relationship.  Better to call things off than to wind up divorced.

I think type of debt and current job prospects are important.  My FI has huge student loans.  Luckily, he makes more in one year than he has in loans, so he'll be able to pay them off and we'll still live comfortably.  And he and I both have really really secure jobs.

noodle_oo

Very interesting article!  I know a lot of people going to med school, law school, etc will end up easily with $100K or even $200K worth of student loans.  I'm not sure how'd I'd feel about marrying someone with that much debt either.  After all, you have to realize how it will affect all your long term decisions, buying a house, having children, working or staying home, etc, etc.

I guess the important thing is when you discuss these things.  DH and I had the serious money talks before we got engaged.  I would not have gotten engaged without knowing his income, debt, credit score, etc.  This is serious business, you need to know before you make a legal commitment.

But in the girls case in the story that guy sucked.  I believe that she didn't know the total amount (a lot of people are in denial and don't want to know because the number is so scary, that's not that unusual).  But yeah, the diff between $100K and $170K isn't big enough to justify calling off the engagement.  Sounds to me like she's better off without him if that was enough to scare him off.

bel138

I brought $250k of medical school debt into our marriage. I got out of undergrad without any loans, but to do that with medical school you either need to have a well-off family or a service contract with the government. I have loads of guilt about this, even though my husband knows it's an investment. Essentially, while I was student, the amount of my tuition was completely negating his entire salary. It was really hard for me to be paying $50k per year to go to school instead of bringing in an income. A lot of times I really felt bad because not only was I "not contributing" to the household, I was setting us back. But I guess if he really had a problem with it, he would have dumped me like this chick.

redheadfsu

I have a have a little less than $100,000 in law school debt. It is federal loans and it is fixed. FI knows, but it is my debt and I pay the monthly payments so it isn't a big deal.

Now that much just for undergrad is crazy.

TheCranberry

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_debt?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:0cf4c943-7641-43ab-acfd-c97aaccd9829Post:ec1184f2-ee79-405f-ac3c-60fb7d2d2924">Re: Debt</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Debt : I dunno, there some big red flags in that story.  First, she didn't even know how much debt she had, which demonstrates financial irresponsibility.  Second, it was probably a very poor decision to take on that much debt in the first place when most of it was for an undergrad degree in photography.  I would probably be questioning if that was really the type of person I wanted to marry.
Posted by quotequeen[/QUOTE]

These are the things that would give me pause.  It didn't seem like she really had a concrete plan for paying off the debt (other than paying off the minimum).  She was very  loosey goosey about the whole thing.  If she has a high income, the extra $70K and the lack of a concrete plan may not mean much, but if you really want to knock that debt out, you have to be serious about it.

It also doesn't show great judgement that she borrowed all of this money for a photography undergrad degree.  Sure, people should be able to do what they love, but there has to be some thought applied to the long term effects of the decisions you make.

Calypso1977

FI knows, but it is my debt and I pay the monthly payments so it isn't a big deal.

i disagree with this thought process.  yes, its your debt, your name, you pay it,  but that is less money going to the collective household expenses, so it does affect the other person.

my cousin's ex-wife had this same theory. she thought it was perfectly fine to buy a $45K vehicle because she made the payments on it.  well, yes, she did, but that $1000 a month or whatever ridiculous amount it was, was money that could have been used for other things that benefitted both. 

Goldlie11

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_debt?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:0cf4c943-7641-43ab-acfd-c97aaccd9829Post:75438988-4f7e-43fe-8cc0-35fac06edf8e">Re: Debt</a>:
[QUOTE]FI knows, but it is my debt and I pay the monthly payments so it isn't a big deal. i disagree with this thought process.  yes, its your debt, your name, you pay it,  but that is less money going to the collective household expenses, so it does affect the other person. my cousin's ex-wife had this same theory. she thought it was perfectly fine to buy a $45K vehicle because she made the payments on it.  well, yes, she did, but that $1000 a month or whatever ridiculous amount it was, was money that could have been used for other things that benefitted both. 
Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]
I agree with you to a point.  I think that it depends if they have combined finances.  Some couples pay their  portions of the rent, monthly bills, and food, then keep the rest of the money for themselves.  In that case, I don't think it's affecting the SO.  

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_debt?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:0cf4c943-7641-43ab-acfd-c97aaccd9829Post:b378f641-cb93-43dd-af93-4b052a7c31d8">Re: Debt</a>:
[QUOTE]I know that people have to make conscious decisions about money and schooling.  But at the same time, some of these "soft" degrees that everyone is whinging about can cost considerably more depending on the school you go to.  Sure, anyone can get, say, a music degree for cheap at a state school, but if you are serious and have the talent, you might just go to Julliard where it will cost considerably more, but the education and contacts you make will be exponentially better. And, just because you go to a state school, it doesn't mean you'll come out of it with low debt.  My FI has $16,000 in debt from a state school and I have $30,000 from a private.  A lot of people would see that kind of debt as a dealbreaker, especially with what we chose to get our degrees in.  At the same time, just because someone has debt doesn't mean they don't deserve to find love and get married.  And just because someone isn't going to law or med school doesn't mean that they are frivolous with their money when they decided on an arts or education degree. IDK.  I'm all for people having their own personal dealbreakers, but I hate hearing a lot of judgment calls made solely on someone's choice of school or career and how that relates to their character (Imagine my surprise when reading another similar article and hearing that men should stay away from writers because it meant we are selfish, lazy and gold diggers!).  People should get to do what makes them happy and find people who love them regardless.  That's just me.
Posted by MeganAngela[/QUOTE]

While I agree with most of what you said. $15k is in no way equivalent to $170k. Even if she was going to school full time, at a private school with no part time job, that's $42500 a year for 4 years. It shouldn't take her longer than that to graduate if she's going full time with no part time job. And if she does have a part time job, she shouldn't need that much money. Plus, most people I know don't pay the full cost of tuition/room/board. I think I paid about half that $30k when all was said and done (with scholarships, my RA stipend and a grant).

megk8oz

It may be harsh, but I really don't blame the guy. To most people there is a huge difference between 100,000 and $170,000 (That's almost double what she lead him to believe was there). Especially towards an undergrad degree that she doesn't even "use".

She maintains that she "didn't know" and guessed that her debt was "around $100,000". While clearly none of us know the exact story here, I could easily see somebody playing it off like "Oh, it's 100K tops, it's probably not even close to that high", especially somebody who claimed to be in denial about what the actual amount might be. He might have been thinking the whole time that the $100,000 was a gross exaggeration.

If some girl came on here posting about how she just found out that her FI didn't inform her until after they were engaged that that he was in almost double the  amount of giant debt that he lead her to believe the entire realtionship for a BA degree in for a career he didn't even have, I guarantee a ton of people would be saying "Red Flag! Get out now!" and "I would never marry a guy that 'didn't know' he was almost $200,000 in debt" and "You deserve to be with somebody that operates within reality when it comes to their finances".

I don't think he dumped her because he cared so much about the money, so much as he realized he couldn't spend the rest of his life with somebody that was so financially irresponsible. While it sucks that it had to happen this far in the relationship, at least he was honest with himself and spared them both an expensive divorce.