NWR...Restaurant tipping

Beachy730

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nwrrestaurant-tipping?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:14bd0d1a-d64a-473c-887b-632d38ef826dPost:332ffcb1-6406-40e4-8ab4-c0161a37aa35">Re: NWR...Restaurant tipping</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: NWR...Restaurant tipping : Thanks for the insight- it's not like Beachy has been replying and able to expand upon what she meant in her original post.
Posted by chirpchirp[/QUOTE]

<div>So nobody else can give an opinon on the subject if they agree with me?</div>

ggirl2001

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nwrrestaurant-tipping?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:14bd0d1a-d64a-473c-887b-632d38ef826dPost:332ffcb1-6406-40e4-8ab4-c0161a37aa35">Re: NWR...Restaurant tipping</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: NWR...Restaurant tipping : Thanks for the insight- it's not like Beachy has been replying and able to expand upon what she meant in her original post.
Posted by chirpchirp[/QUOTE]
Did you read the rest of what I said, or just skip to the part where I agreed with Beachy. I was expanding on what you said about it being shiity to biittch about a tip after the fact. 

J&K10910

I've NEVER had a server pouring refills from my bottle when I've had a bottle of wine.  They bring it, open it, pour the first glass, and then I pour the rest of them.  Are they supposed to be pouring my refills?  Good to know. 

Beachy730

Usually in fancy restaurants that have a separate drink server will, or just a really attentive server will do it.  If they are busy I don't care, and I really never mind pouring it myself. 

J&K10910

I don't think I've ever been to a restaurant fancy enough to have a separate drink server.  I also don't mind pouring mine myself.  I'm quite capable, and why would I sit there and wait? 

That's why I like when they bring us pitchers of water.  I hardly ever get my water refilled as quickly as I'd like to.  I hate having to wait for something to drink.  I'd prefer to pour it myself.

Hey Chirp, do you hate me for ordering water at restaurants?

NOLAbridealmost

Also, something to consider, at many restaurants waiters are taxed based on the dollar amount of their sales (to ensure that waiters do pay their taxes and don't just pocket all their cash) and those taxes are withheld from their $2.33 an hour paychecks.  They are also required to tip out the bartender, hostess, and in some cases the food runner a certain percentage of sales, not their tips.  So if you order a bunch of expensive drinks and don't tip on top of them, the server gets dinged twice: once by Uncle Sam and once by the tip outs to the other members of the staff.   

ggirl2001

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nwrrestaurant-tipping?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:14bd0d1a-d64a-473c-887b-632d38ef826dPost:573aed81-a275-48c9-8fcd-23d95f2687e6">Re: NWR...Restaurant tipping</a>:
[QUOTE]I've NEVER had a server pouring refills from my bottle when I've had a bottle of wine.  They bring it, open it, pour the first glass, and then I pour the rest of them.  Are they supposed to be pouring my refills?  Good to know. 
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]<div>I assume that H and are I huge lushes and they don't come around quick enough for us. 

</div>

J&K10910

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nwrrestaurant-tipping?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:14bd0d1a-d64a-473c-887b-632d38ef826dPost:58132094-ad24-4f07-adf3-9cf27c7edb37">Re: NWR...Restaurant tipping</a>:
[QUOTE]Also, something to consider, at many restaurants waiters are taxed based on the dollar amount of their sales  (to ensure that waiters do  pay their taxes and don't just pocket all their cash) and those taxes are withheld from their $2.33 an hour paychecks.  They are also required to tip out the bartender, hostess, and in some cases the food runner a certain percentage of sales , not their tips.  So if you order a bunch of expensive drinks and don't tip on top of them, the server gets dinged twice: once by Uncle Sam and once by the tip outs to the other members of the staff.   
Posted by NOLAbridealmost[/QUOTE]

This is true, and it totally sucks.  But it still shouldn't necessitate higher tipping if the service wasn't good.  (I know that's not what you're saying, either.)  I worked in a place where that was true, but I still managed to make good money (as I said earlier in the thread)...becaues I was good at what I did.

Now, this has nothing to do with your post I quoted NOLA, I'm just going off on my tangent based on some other posts in this thread.  I just don't understand the "I tip 20% even if the service was bad!" attitude.  Guys?  You're enabling these servers to continue providing bad service to other people.  I understand that some things aren't the server's fault, and I don't knock them for that.  I guess I went the opposite way that most people who worked in the service industry do--I know exactly what a server is supposed to be doing, so I know when they're doing a shitty job.  I also know what affects the service that is and isn't the server's fault (granted, I'm not all knowing and I can't know everything, but I have a better idea than someone who just assumes it's all the server's fault).  I'm not against giving a lower tip for lower service, because you ARE tipping on service.  You're not tipping because your food is expensive. You're tipping because someone had to bring it to you, and bring you your drinks, and whatever else.  If they did a shiiiitty job of that, then yes, they don't deserve a bigger tip.

specialk84

I agree with pretty much everyone here, except Chirp. Chirp, I think you're acting like a douche.

ggirl2001

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nwrrestaurant-tipping?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:14bd0d1a-d64a-473c-887b-632d38ef826dPost:18a10e5c-d145-4ec0-924f-16fe7b847a4a">Re: NWR...Restaurant tipping</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: NWR...Restaurant tipping : This is true, and it totally sucks.  But it still shouldn't necessitate higher tipping if the service wasn't good.  (I know that's not what you're saying, either.)  I worked in a place where that was true, but I still managed to make good money (as I said earlier in the thread)...becaues I was good at what I did. Now, this has nothing to do with your post I quoted NOLA, I'm just going off on my tangent based on some other posts in this thread.  I just don't understand the "I tip 20% even if the service was bad!" attitude.  Guys?  You're enabling these servers to continue providing bad service to other people.  I understand that some things aren't the server's fault, and I don't knock them for that.  I guess I went the opposite way that most people who worked in the service industry do--I know exactly what a server is supposed to be doing, so I know when they're doing a shitty job.  I also know what affects the service that is and isn't the server's fault (granted, I'm not all knowing and I can't know everything, but I have a better idea than someone who just assumes it's all the server's fault).  I'm not against giving a lower tip for lower service, because you ARE tipping on service.  You're not tipping because your food is expensive. You're tipping because someone had to bring it to you, and bring you your drinks, and whatever else.  If they did a shiiiitty job of that, then yes, they don't deserve a bigger tip.
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]
I think for me I tend tip high because I give the benefit of the doubt to the server that day. Like, if they're just having a shiity day and not doing a good job. I know that doesn't excuse bad service, but in my head I like to give them a chance to turn their day around. It doesn't make sense I know, but I do it anyway. 

NOLAbridealmost

I agree that it makes no sense to tip 20% if the service is bad, but I have to be very confident that the problems with the service were the waiter's fault.  Being rude, dismissive, lying, or standing around shootin' the breeze with the other waitresses while I am sitting there with an empty beer are all easy enough to nail down.  But if food takes forever, comes out cold, comes out wrong, etc. then there's no way of knowing if the waiter was responsible for that--I give the benefit of the doubt in that situation. 

Beachy730

I agree J.  Even when I do lower my tip though it still never goes below 15% (unless you're just Godawful and I see you sitting around or on a phone or something).  I do know though that there are a lot of people out there who tip 15% still as a standard, so it doesn't necessarily make a server realize they were bad.  So I know I'm not necessarily helping the cause, but I do at least lower my tips for bad service.  

I just really hate the mentality that servers automatically deserve a 20% tip or whatever it is.  If I even have to contemplate how much I'm giving you for a tip then that means you did a pretty shitty job.  If you sucked I'm not going to give you an extra $10 on a bottle of wine just because.  I don't care if you have to tip out every other fucking person in that restaurant, if you sucked as a waiter you don't deserve a good tip.  Most people don't get paid if they suck at their job, so why a server should get to suck and still expect to make the same money is beyond me.

J&K10910

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nwrrestaurant-tipping?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:14bd0d1a-d64a-473c-887b-632d38ef826dPost:99f4e132-ee14-4179-9031-b6c0788fe962">Re: NWR...Restaurant tipping</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: NWR...Restaurant tipping : I think for me I tend tip high because I give the benefit of the doubt to the server that day. Like, if they're just having a shiity day and not doing a good job. I know that doesn't excuse bad service, but in my head I like to give them a chance to turn their day around. It doesn't make sense I know, but I do it anyway. 
Posted by ggirl2001[/QUOTE]

If a salesman has a bad day and doesn't sell, they don't get commission just because.

I think there is such a "feel bad for people in the service industry!" attitude right now.  It doesn't do anyone any good.  JMO, though (clearly, haha).

NOLA, if my food takes forever and comes out cold, there's a good chance it took forever and came out cold because the server let it sit back there for too long.    Food does not come off the grill/stove/out of the oven fully cooked but not hot.  Now, if the place is packed and the server has 6 other tables?  Yeah, I get that, it happens.  If the place is dead?  Well....

NOLAbridealmost

I guess I am just confused at your point, Beachy.  No one is saying that someone who SUCKS should get a tip. I am just saying that assuming the waiter doesn't suck, that the diner should tip 20, 18, 15 (whatever they normally would) on the entire bill--drinks included.  You seemed to indicate earlier that you don't believe you ought to include the price of expensive drinks when calculating the tip.  That makes no sense to me.  I don't think the waiter should have to go above-and-beyond to justify including the price of the drinks when calculating the tip.  If the service was good enough for 20% based on the price of the food, it should be good enough to justify 20% on the total amount of the bill.    

But maybe I am just misunderstanding. 

J&K10910

Beachy, my dear, you and could not possibly be more on the same page if we tried, I'm pretty sure.

I'm glad I'm not the only reasonable person in this thread.  That's happened in these types of threads before--which is why I didn't give my tipping habits until I was directly asked.

Beachy730

Tipping as a whole just pisses me off though anymore.  I hate that so many industries basically expect a tip anymore for doing their job.  Whenever I have anything done I google if I'm supposed to tip them because I don't want to be the asshole if they are used to getting them.  But I know of people who tip on oil changes and stuff. Come on now, that's their job.  

J&K10910

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nwrrestaurant-tipping?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:14bd0d1a-d64a-473c-887b-632d38ef826dPost:a96c8067-d222-46a2-bad2-c111f19ea51e">Re: NWR...Restaurant tipping</a>:
[QUOTE]I guess I am just confused at your point, Beachy.  No one is saying that someone who SUCKS should get a tip. I am just saying that assuming the waiter doesn't suck, that the diner should tip 20, 18, 15 (whatever they normally would) on the entire bill--drinks included.   You seemed to indicate earlier that you don't believe you ought to include the price of expensive drinks when calculating the tip.  That makes no sense to me.  I don't think the waiter should have to go above-and-beyond to justify including the price of the drinks when calculating the tip.  If the service was good enough for 20% based on the price of the food, it should be good enough to justify 20% on the total amount of the bill.     But maybe I am just misunderstanding. 
Posted by NOLAbridealmost[/QUOTE]

I think you are misunderstanding.  And I don't think Beachy is arguing with you. And yes, some people ARE saying that people who suck should still get a tip.  I suggest you re-read some of the thread.

J&K10910

NOLA, in case you need some guidance, Katenumbers, Summer, and nextrightthing all said in some way shape or form that either service has to be REALLY bad for them to tip less than 20%/they tip 15% for bad service/whatever.

15% for BAD SERVICE?!  That blows my mind.

Beachy730

Maybe I wasn't clear in my original comment on it.  If you are a good server and I enjoyed my dining experience I will absolutely tip you 20% on my entire bill regardless of what we spent on drinks.  But if we order a $40 bottle of wine and you sucked and just dropped it off at the table, then I'm not going to give you $8 on that bottle of wine just because you dropped it off.  Same thing if we order expensive drinks.  But that's the same as anything else.  If we have an expensive meal and spend $150, I'm not automatically giving you a $30 tip just because you brought it to me.  But yes, for drinks sometimes I will look at that differently because dropping off a bottle of wine can literally add $40 to a bill for something that required no extra work from that server than dropping off a water or something else.  Especially if all you care about is how much I'm drinking to drive up the bill.  Again, if you're a good server who actually pours the wine into our glasses and cares about us I have no problem tipping the full amount.  

Beachy730

Also though, if you're shitty about drinks you're probably shitty about the entire meal, so the drink thing is basically a moot point.  I just don't think a shitty server should automatically get a huge boost in a tip because we ordered a bottle of wine that they did no extra work for.  Again, do your job and its a moot fucking point.

ggirl2001

In Response to Re:NWR...Restaurant tipping:[QUOTE]Also though, if you're shitty about drinks you're probably shitty about the entire meal, so the drink thing is basically a moot point. nbsp;I just don't think a shitty server should automatically get a huge boost in a tip because we ordered a bottle of wine that they did no extra work for. nbsp;Again, do your job and its a moot fucking point. Posted by Beachy730[/QUOTE]
This. Just because a restaurant up charges the price of wine doesn't mean the server should get a good tip if they sucked. I also haven't had any experienced where I've tipped less than 20 so maybe I've been lucky.

mica178

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nwrrestaurant-tipping?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:14bd0d1a-d64a-473c-887b-632d38ef826dPost:573aed81-a275-48c9-8fcd-23d95f2687e6">Re: NWR...Restaurant tipping</a>:
[QUOTE]I've NEVER had a server pouring refills from my bottle when I've had a bottle of wine.  They bring it, open it, pour the first glass, and then I pour the rest of them.  Are they supposed to be pouring my refills?  Good to know. 
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]

<div>Most people on this board will attest that I'm a bit of a lush, and I rarely have to pour my own wine.  The waiter is supposed to show up periodically and top my glass off.  If I'm drinking faster than the waiter is appearing at my table, that's not a good sign.</div><div>
</div><div>Hi!  I'm back from a lunch where I had both wine and a cocktail.  Yay for supporting the economy!</div>

MyNameIsNot

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nwrrestaurant-tipping?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:14bd0d1a-d64a-473c-887b-632d38ef826dPost:d391cbfe-18c6-44fd-8966-5e08114a6cbf">Re: NWR...Restaurant tipping</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: NWR...Restaurant tipping : If a salesman has a bad day and doesn't sell, they don't get commission just because. I think there is such a "feel bad for people in the service industry!" attitude right now.  It doesn't do anyone any good.  JMO, though (clearly, haha). NOLA,<strong> if my food takes forever and comes out cold, there's a good chance it took forever and came out cold because the server let it sit back there for too long. </strong>   Food does not come off the grill/stove/out of the oven fully cooked but not hot.  Now, if the place is packed and the server has 6 other tables?  Yeah, I get that, it happens.  If the place is dead?  Well....
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]

<div>If your food took forever or came out cold, it's likely that the kitchen screwed it up.  If your food is cold, it probably means that the kitchen misfired and screwed up the timing or someone in the kitchen got weeded, and your food died in the window while they were waiting for another dish for your table.  </div><div>
</div><div>I've worked in a number of different restaurants, and I've never heard of a place where only the server for the table is expected to bring you food.  Maybe there are some exceptions, but most places have food runners during busy times, and other servers are expected to run food on their way out of the kitchen, no matter what table it's going to.  Even managers and kitchen staff run food.  I even got handed food to run as a hostess.  </div>

J&K10910

Yes, MNIN, if one person at the table's food is hot, I agree with you.  If everyone's food is cold, my point stands.  And while there are definitely other people who can and do bring food out, in most places if no one else is getting it, it is ultimately the server for that table's responsibility.

I'm not talking fancy upscale restaurants where they have designated runners or where managers bring out food.  In that case, yes, it's different.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

I don't know. Our sales tax is 9.25%, so I double that and sometimes round to the nearest dollar. If I don't feel like doubling the tax I just look at something on the reciept. Doesn't matter too much.