Save the dat vs invitation.

awick14

I recieved a phone call from my FSIL, she was asking about the invitation for her friend "kim". Long story some what short:

When we gave out the save the dates, "kim" was given one as she had volunteered to do the bartending for our wedding. (She lives out of town, but owns her own bartending buisness.) About 5 months ago she called my FMIL and told her that she would rather be a guest at the wedding. My FMIL called me and asked if it was ok for "Kim" to just be a guest, my FI and I both agreed that we did not want her at the wedding if she wasn't bartending. I was then under the impression that FMIL was going to call "kim" and advise her of this.

So with the phone call that i recieved yesterday I explained this to my FSIL, and she was very upset. she went on to tell me how rude it was for her not to recieve an invite after recieving the STD. I tried agian to explain that she only got the invite as she was going to bartend for us. This is now a huge family thing and it is driving me nuts. My FI is the one who is dealing with his family. But they are trying to call me and try to get us to change our minds.

Why would we invite someone who I have only met a few times to be at our wedding when I dont even have room for some of my family, as we have a tight budget??? I am wrong in this, as she did get an STD.

laurenclaire1386

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_save-dat-vs-invitation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:74651305-a00b-445b-b326-ddc01730392ePost:f92d7e56-5459-45cc-9090-70192af22f65">Save the dat vs invitation.</a>:
[QUOTE]I recieved a phone call from my FSIL, she was asking about the invitation for her friend "kim". Long story some what short: When we gave out the save the dates, "kim" was given one as she had volunteered to do the bartending for our wedding. (She lives out of town, but owns her own bartending buisness.) About 5 months ago she called my FMIL and told her that she would rather be a guest at the wedding. My FMIL called me and asked if it was ok for "Kim" to just be a guest, my FI and I both agreed that we did not want her at the wedding if she wasn't bartending. I was then under the impression that FMIL was going to call "kim" and advise her of this. So with the phone call that i recieved yesterday I explained this to my <strong>FSIL, and she was very upset. she went on to tell me how rude it was for her not to recieve an invite after recieving the STD.</strong> I tried agian to explain that she only got the invite as she was going to bartend for us. This is now a huge family thing and it is driving me nuts. My FI is the one who is dealing with his family. But they are trying to call me and try to get us to change our minds. Why would we invite someone who I have only met a few times to be at our wedding when I dont even have room for some of my family, as we have a tight budget??? I am wrong in this, as she did get an STD.
Posted by awick14[/QUOTE]
And your FSIL is right. Why in the everliving hell would you send a STD to a vendor? You sign contracts with vendors, not send them STD's. Everyone who gets a STD needs to be invited to the wedding. Period. STD=invite.

TheCranberry

Can you not explain to Kim that she received a save the date since she had volunteered to bartend at the event?  I can see where the confusion comes from since STDs are for guests, not vendors.  Why is FI's family so upset about this?  I don't see why they would expect FSIL's random friend to be invited.

hlq2011

Ditto LC.  Save-the-date = Invitation.  By sending her a STD, you implied she'd be invited to the wedding.

dannie134

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_save-dat-vs-invitation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:74651305-a00b-445b-b326-ddc01730392ePost:f92d7e56-5459-45cc-9090-70192af22f65">Save the dat vs invitation.</a>:
[QUOTE]I recieved a phone call from my FSIL, she was asking about the invitation for her friend "kim". Long story some what short: When we gave out the save the dates, "kim" was given one as she had volunteered to do the bartending for our wedding. (She lives out of town, but owns her own bartending buisness.) About 5 months ago she called my FMIL and told her that she would rather be a guest at the wedding. My FMIL called me and asked if it was ok for "Kim" to just be a guest, my FI and I both agreed that we did not want her at the wedding if she wasn't bartending. I was then under the impression that FMIL was going to call "kim" and advise her of this. So with the phone call that i recieved yesterday I explained this to my FSIL, and she was very upset. she went on to tell me how rude it was for her not to recieve an invite after recieving the STD. I tried agian to explain that she only got the invite as she was going to bartend for us. This is now a huge family thing and it is driving me nuts. My FI is the one who is dealing with his family. But they are trying to call me and try to get us to change our minds. Why would we invite someone who I have only met a few times to be at our wedding when I dont even have room for some of my family, as we have a tight budget??? <strong>I am wrong in this, as she did get an STD.</strong>
Posted by awick14[/QUOTE]

I am guessing you meant "am I wrong."  In which case, the way I see it, yes.  You invited her, whether it was with the expectation of her tending bar or not.  A save the date basically is an invitation.  You cannot now "un-invite" her.

Honestly, is it worth getting into a family fight over one person?  I am sure you did not intend to create drama, but clearly she was under the impression that she was actually being invited, and the bartending was an optional favor that she might do for you.  And she decided not to.

I'm sorry that you clearly had a misunderstanding, but if you want to follow proper etiquette (and not stir up more trouble) you will have to find room to include her at this point.  And send her an actual invite.

cengle

Did you sign a contract with Kim for her to be a vendor? How was this arrangement made? Did you send STDs to your other vendors? Were you going to pay Kim? I need some details here.

elizabethjane25

i think since you sent her a save the date, you are required to invite her to the wedding. save the dates are for guests, not vendors. im assuming you didn't send save the dates to your dj, caterer, etc so the bartender shouldn't be different. i understand your predicament and your reasonings for not wanting to invite her, but i do think you are stuck

hz80408

STD = invite, to me, no exceptions.

If she was going to do the bartending, she should have been treated as a vendor.  You typically don't send STDs to vendors

TheCranberry

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_save-dat-vs-invitation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:74651305-a00b-445b-b326-ddc01730392ePost:1c1cd587-c995-40ef-940e-0b0247f35ae8">Re: Save the dat vs invitation.</a>:
[QUOTE]Did you sign a contract with Kim for her to be a vendor? How was this arrangement made? Did you send STDs to your other vendors? Were you going to pay Kim? I need some details here.
Posted by cengle[/QUOTE]

Yes, more details would be nice.  How did she end up volunteering and what conversations took place before you sent the STD?

ETA:  I am sending an invitation to my minister and his wife so that they know they ar both invited to attend the reception after the ceremony (same thing with rehearsal dinner).  If for some reason he backs out and can't perform the ceremony, I would not expect him or his wife to attend the reception.  Details matter.

hlq2011

I agree, Cranberry.  But I think it's a little different when there's a prior relationship involved.

I am sending an invitation to our Deacon, who wouldn't come if he wasn't performing the ceremony.  But there's no previously existing relationship between us, so he would have no expectation of coming in the first place.

Bubbalub

Playing devil's advocate here:

Kim is also in the wrong and rude to essentially invite herself to OP's wedding. She volunteered to be a vendor and backed out. That should then basically exclude her from the wedding. Like pps said, any other vendor that backed out would not be expected to attend the wedding. Kim should never haved called the FMIL and said she wanted to be a guest. That is just as rude as not following up on an STD with an invite.

jemmini6

I don't know, I'm kind of torn on this one.  Typically yes, STD = invite, but this is a weird situation.  First, I don't think you should have sent a STD to someone who would be acting as a vendor, but since that ship has sailed it's kind of too late to address that.  So let me see if I'm following this correctly...

She volunteered to do your bartending, correct?  So then I'm assuming that because she was sort of a family friend, you skipped the contract and sent her a STD as a reminder that she had an event that day? (again, probably the wrong way to go about it, but just trying to see if I'm understanding this).  Then she backed out of doing your bartending and instead essentially invited herself (sort of, I mean...she was given an STD, but I think the intent behind it was probably clear that it was as a 'vendor'). 

I don't know, I'm obviously going against the grain here, but I don't think she needs to be invited.  If the agreement/relationship in regards to the wedding from the start was that she'd be bartending, then backing out of doing the bartending shouldn't then mean an invite to the wedding.  I mean, yes, OP went about the whole STD thing wrong, but I think it's pretty presumptious for someone who agreed to be a vendor to expect to back out and still be invited as a guest, especially since it isn't a friend of the couple.  Again...I think this is a pretty tough situation, but if it's really upsetting your FIL's that much, I'd probably just suck it up an invite her...even though I personally think she's being rude to expect that.

Erica1011

I mostly lurk on this page and I am no authority on etiquette by any means but I would say NO WAY to sending her an invite.  I would be pretty disappointed (or pissed) if I was planning on her bartending and then she took back the offer... Where is the etiquette in that??  Obviously sending her a STD as a vendor was the wrong move but volunteering a service and then rescinding is awful to do to a bride.  I don't know why your FI family doesn't see that.  Personally, I would NOT invite her.

hlq2011

I just think that by sending the STD, it implied she was welcome at the wedding as a guest.

Isn't that what STDs DO?

JanoBean75

I agree with Jemmini6. She was given the STD to remind her not to book another event that day. She wasn't ever on the guest list. Now that she's backed out of bartending, that's it. She's not a guest. She's not entitled to an invitation.

TheCranberry

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_save-dat-vs-invitation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:74651305-a00b-445b-b326-ddc01730392ePost:c5cb795a-f173-427f-b918-07f318034a12">Re: Save the dat vs invitation.</a>:
[QUOTE]I agree, Cranberry.  But I think it's a little different when there's a prior relationship involved. I am sending an invitation to our Deacon, who wouldn't come if he wasn't performing the ceremony.  But there's no previously existing relationship between us, so he would have no expectation of coming in the first place.
Posted by hlq2011[/QUOTE]

I see your point, but I still think there should be no expectation here since Kim is FSIL's friend, not OP's friend.  If she were OP's or her FI's friend or actually had a relationship with the couple I'd be more on the side of inviting her.

In my specific case, there is a family background and connection with this minister.  He's known both sides of my family since before I was born, but he still wouldn't be invited to the wedding if he were not officiating.

mica178

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_save-dat-vs-invitation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:74651305-a00b-445b-b326-ddc01730392ePost:233085ba-cacf-45f0-a51c-2be8cc3ea474">Re: Save the dat vs invitation.</a>:
[QUOTE]I just think that by sending the STD, it implied she was welcome at the wedding as a guest. Isn't that what STDs DO?
Posted by hlq2011[/QUOTE]

That's how I feel too. 

If OP hadn't sent the STD, I would not think for a second that she should feel obligated to invite the friend of a friend who backed out as a vendor.  But because that STD was sent, it changes things.

Summer2011Bride

I don't think one person is worth the family drama. Yes, it was rude of Kim to back out and then call up and ask for an invite, but you DID send an STD. As others have already said, you shouldn't have done that to a vendor. She probably thought it signaled that she was invited regardless. I say invite her. It's one more person and not worth the stress and drama it'll cause to exclude her.

ootmother2

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_save-dat-vs-invitation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:74651305-a00b-445b-b326-ddc01730392ePost:75d27179-bd84-4281-98cd-80feb40cca5e">Re: Save the dat vs invitation.</a>:
[QUOTE]I mostly lurk on this page and I am no authority on etiquette by any means but I would say NO WAY to sending her an invite.  I would be pretty disappointed (or pissed) if I was planning on her bartending and then she took back the offer... Where is the etiquette in that??  Obviously sending her a STD as a vendor was the wrong move but volunteering a service and then rescinding is awful to do to a bride.  I don't know why your FI family doesn't see that.  Personally, I would NOT invite her.
Posted by Erica1011[/QUOTE]

This^

and there is no way that I would ever disagree with a Red Sox fan!

Birdie1483

Well she sent her a save the dat anyways, so really she should get an out because she never actually requested that they save the DATE, just the dat.




Bad joke?

JanoBean75

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_save-dat-vs-invitation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:74651305-a00b-445b-b326-ddc01730392ePost:86362809-5e4e-4bbb-aa8d-a5604f2c1a62">Re: Save the dat vs invitation.</a>:
[QUOTE]Well she sent her a save the dat anyways, so really she should get an out because she never actually requested that they save the DATE, just the dat. <strong>Bad joke?</strong>
Posted by Birdie1483[/QUOTE]

I'm going to say no, because I had the same one in my head.

Birdie1483

I had the joke on the tip of my tongue, but don't have my witty pants on to really hit it out of the park. :-/

DeadUtopia

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_save-dat-vs-invitation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:74651305-a00b-445b-b326-ddc01730392ePost:a666fba7-d3ec-4e75-a987-7c51af161210">Re: Save the dat vs invitation.</a>:
[QUOTE]Playing devil's advocate here: Kim is also in the wrong and rude to essentially invite herself to OP's wedding. She volunteered to be a vendor and backed out. That should then basically exclude her from the wedding. Like pps said, any other vendor that backed out would not be expected to attend the wedding. Kim should never haved called the FMIL and said she wanted to be a guest. That is just as rude as not following up on an STD with an invite.
Posted by Bubbalub[/QUOTE]


I agree with this. Maybe an STD was sent because since she volunteered there wasn't a contract to sign and the bride just wanted to send her something to remember the date. I also agree that usually a vendor wouldn't receive an STD, but this is an unusual circumstance. But by pulling back her offer to bartend, there is not other reason for her to attend. It brings up the fact that it is very rude to ask if she can just be a guest instead, made more rude by the fact that she didn't ask the bride or groom themselves.

Strictly etiquette wise, she should be due an invitation, but in that circumstance I don't know if I would feel warm enough to her to extend an invitation either. This means that I would have to hire another bartender and pay their fee plus also cover dinner, drink, and additional costs for this extra guest that I wasn't expecting who might also have a potential plus one. 

awick14

To sum up some of the confusion:

1.  I never actually mailed her an STD, she was at the house when they came in the mail. (my FMIL ordered them and had them sent to her house). When my FMIL opened the package Kim was asking if we had gotten a bartender for our wedding yet, I told her I hadn`t. She then offered and asked for a paper to write the date down on so she could write it into her book when she got home. (lives out of town). My FMIL said why don`t you take a STD as she had ordered a few extra ones, just in case.

2. We didn't sign a contract or anything as she was family. She was my FSIL`s MOH at her wedding and she knows my FIL`s very well, but not me or my FI.

3. I did not give her the STD with the intentions that she was a "guest". I would have never given her the STD if I knew that this is what would have become of it.

4.To the people who said to just invite her so that the family would be happier, I can not do this as per me and FI are paying for the wedding our selves and have no help from his family at all. (Not that I would ever ask them for money and such) We are planning what we can afford, and what the building can accommodate.

Birdie1483

Well if that's the case, I think she's just SOL and rude to invite herself.

awick14

We are having to pay full price for a bartender now, which took us weeks to find at such short notice, and isn't cheap by any means.

ArmyofUs

This whole situation sucks.

DeadUtopia

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_save-dat-vs-invitation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:74651305-a00b-445b-b326-ddc01730392ePost:78fa3b03-cafd-4aad-822a-51696fcf4430">Re: Save the dat vs invitation.</a>:
[QUOTE]Well if that's the case, I think she's just SOL and rude to invite herself.
Posted by Birdie1483[/QUOTE]


This all the way.

Bubbalub

Yeah, I think in this case Kim should not be invited. It is horribly rude to invite oneself to someone's wedding, and especially so when the bride and groom aren't even the ones being asked.

Add to this that she seems to have left you in a lurch re: bartenders close to your wedding date I would be pissed enough to tell her to suck it.

mica178

Well, when you explain it like that, Kim's in the wrong, and it sucks that she wants to be a guest at your wedding after she left you last minute without a bartender.

Hatsumomo7

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_save-dat-vs-invitation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:74651305-a00b-445b-b326-ddc01730392ePost:f92d7e56-5459-45cc-9090-70192af22f65">Save the dat vs invitation.</a>:
[QUOTE]I recieved a phone call from my FSIL, she was asking about the invitation for her friend "kim". Long story some what short: When we gave out the save the dates, "kim" was given one as she had volunteered to do the bartending for our wedding. (She lives out of town, but owns her own bartending buisness.) About 5 months ago she called my FMIL and told her that she would rather be a guest at the wedding. My FMIL called me and asked if it was ok for "Kim" to just be a guest, my FI and I both agreed that we did not want her at the wedding if she wasn't bartending. I was then under the impression that FMIL was going to call "kim" and advise her of this. So with the phone call that i recieved yesterday I explained this to my FSIL, and she was very upset. she went on to tell me how rude it was for her not to recieve an invite after recieving the STD. I tried agian to explain that she only got the invite as she was going to bartend for us. This is now a huge family thing and it is driving me nuts. My FI is the one who is dealing with his family. But they are trying to call me and try to get us to change our minds. Why would we invite someone who I have only met a few times to be at our wedding when I dont even have room for some of my family, as we have a tight budget???<strong> I am wrong in this, as she did get an STD.
</strong>Posted by awick14[/QUOTE]

Reference the bolded words. You are wrong to believe that you can renig on an invitation just because the guest isn't bartending for you anymore. This is really bratty. Etiquette rules are that if you send someone a STD you are required to send them an invite and really? You shot yourself in the foot on this one because if she was only supposed to bartend then you really didn't have to give her any paper invite of any sort. She would have been asked to provide a service and if she became unable and just wanted to attend as a guest then you could've smoothed it over. You invited her with a STD as with the rest of the guests and now you have to deal with it. You would be REALLY rude and come off as a brat if you did not invite her now.