Birth rape?

Snippylynn

Someone on my FB feed read this article on Yahoo about something called 'Birth rape' <--clicky.  The article warns of graphic birth story and how she cried while reading the mother's story, but I didn't think it was graphic in the least.

First off, I have SERIOUS issues with the term 'birth rape'.  That is absolutely not what this should be called. Medical malpractice is the term, mkay?  I think it demeans the word rape by adding something like this, especially when it's this.

Secondly, I also think this didn't actually happen in the way that it's written. The mother sounds like she's overly distraught and is not telling the entire story. Hospitals will not just throw someone into the OR and force their baby out, not without some serious complications to the baby. There are some big problems with this story.

adamar15

If this is the same story that was on SB, I have a really hard time believing that we're getting the whole story.  Also, switching providers several times during the pregnancy is a major red flag.

RupertPenny

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_birth-rape?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:75fcb7e0-2606-47c8-8ecc-bf1c4bdcd169Post:81417574-5e26-4401-98c0-04ef9b99f496">Birth rape?</a>:
[QUOTE]Someone on my FB feed read this article on Yahoo about something called ' Birth rape ' <--clicky.  The article warns of graphic birth story and how she cried while reading the mother's story, but I didn't think it was graphic in the least.<strong> First off, I have SERIOUS issues with the term 'birth rape'.  That is absolutely not what this should be called. Medical malpractice is the term, mkay?  I think it demeans the word rape by adding something like this, especially when it's this.</strong> Secondly, I also think this didn't actually happen in the way that it's written. The mother sounds like she's overly distraught and is not telling the entire story. Hospitals will not just throw someone into the OR and force their baby out, not without some serious complications to the baby. There are some big problems with this story.
Posted by Snippylynn[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>I didn't read it but I totally agree with the bolded. I hate when people throw around words like this. Language matters. 

</div>

pkontk

This is absolutely malpractice and should NOT be called rape, ever.  That term should only ever be used for actual rape or assault, otherwise it masks the severity of the experience.

I agree there must have been something else going on.  I'm SURE that a lot of men change into scrubs for vaginal births, and there is no way a hospital would do this without consent.  Also, I thought you were awake for c-sections.  Loopy, yes, but still awake.  This just seems full of anti-health care propaganda.

baystateapple

I hear stories like this from people who had a birth plan and wanted to give birth vaginally, but for whatever reason, they had to have a c-section.  Elective c-sections are becoming more and more common lately, just because it's considered shorter, faster, and easier (for the doctor, not so much for the mother), it cuts out hours upon hours of labor, and the doctor knows precisely what he has to do: come in and get the baby out.  However, there is a much longer recovery period, more chance of trauma to the mother's body, etc. 

I have heard of mothers feeling sad or disappointed that they had c-sections, more because they felt they let themselves or their babies down.  I've only heard of one other person saying that it was traumatic and forced upon her, and she did not use the word "rape."  I dislike the use of that word for anything but its original definition.  I think it's wrong.

baystateapple

I also don't believe that you are knocked out for a c-section, unless there's a very good reason.  The person I mentioned above was, but that's the only case I've ever heard of.  Most c-sections are only done with local anesthetic.

[Deleted User]

It's not rape, and I'd have words with anyone who claimed it was. A violation? Sure. But not a rape in the least.

I think the woman sounds like kind of a snot to begin with, with the whole "that is medical intervenion #1." Um, your baby's heart couldn't be detected. WTF did you expect the doctors to do? Ignore it?

As for being knocked out, well I'd love to hear the doctors' side of that. It's hard to know exactly what happened.

RupertPenny

Also, fore-granted? Does Yahoo not employ editors?

baystateapple

It's not impossible, Cfas, but I think it is against medical advice.  Many women do attempt and successfully manage a VBAC.  It's pretty new though.  Back in the day, if you had one, it was usually because it was a medical necessity, and the doctor figured if you needed one once, you needed another.  My sister and I were both c-section babies because my mom's hips never widened to the point where she could deliver naturally.

adamar15

The fact that the birth doesn't exactly follow the "birth plan" does not equal malpractice.  I think some women get so hung up on their birth plans and think that it will be followed no matter what that they make a much bigger deal out of it when something doesn't go with the plan.  Sorry ladies, the safety of mom and baby is more important than following the plan some hack made up for you (or that you made yourself by doing "research" on the internetz).

baystateapple

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_birth-rape?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:75fcb7e0-2606-47c8-8ecc-bf1c4bdcd169Post:43312e03-25f5-466a-be71-0b6794085162">Re: Birth rape?</a>:
[QUOTE]It's not rape, and I'd have words with anyone who claimed it was. A violation? Sure. But not a rape in the least. <strong>I think the woman sounds like kind of a snot to begin with, with the whole "that is medical intervenion #1." Um, your baby's heart couldn't be detected. WTF did you expect the doctors to do? Ignore it?</strong> As for being knocked out, well I'd love to hear the doctors' side of that. It's hard to know exactly what happened.
Posted by Seshat411[/QUOTE]
This a hundred times.

"We can't hear your baby's heartbeat, but we don't want to be overbearing and interrupt your perfect birth plan, so please carry on."

adamar15

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_birth-rape?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:75fcb7e0-2606-47c8-8ecc-bf1c4bdcd169Post:7d73fe78-15a2-4013-9190-3c5efce9d56d">Re: Birth rape?</a>:
[QUOTE]It also seems like this woman who claims that this happened to her had a C-section before<strong>. After one C-section, I know it's pretty much impossible to have a vaginal birth afterwards</strong>. At least, I feel like I've heard that.
Posted by cfaszews25[/QUOTE]

That's not true at all.  VBACs are pretty common with docs and midwives that are educated about them. 

Snippylynn

Oh, sorry! I didn't realize it had been on SB. I'm never over there.

I am sure it's traumatic, but she definitely sounds like she's one of those super-militant, VBAC is the ONLY way to go sort of moms. She probably forces her kids to watch their birth videos.

baystateapple

My mom works on a maternity ward, and she says she hates it when couples arrive with 2 - 3 page birth plans.  Some of them are so complicated that it's almost impossible for the doctors and nurses to do their jobs.  It's crazy. 

sarabellam

IIRC, most elective C-sections are done with an epidural (I think that is considered a local) for anaesthesia. For an emergency C-section, if the epidural isn't in place, it is much faster to completely put the patient under in order to get infant out ASAP.

Cfas, I don't think it's impossible to have a VBAC, depending on where the original incision was.

But, I'm not a medical professional, so take that FWIW.

ETA: too slow on the VBAC info. Bay, your mom would have liked me. My "birth plan" consisted of "I don't think I want any drugs, but that is subject to change."

pkontk

I feel like women need to remember that the phrase 'birth plan' doesn't always equate to what actually happens.  Yes, its a plan, but if things aren't going the way they're supposed to, they need to accept a back-up plan.

(This of course comes from someone who has never given birth).

baystateapple

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_birth-rape?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:75fcb7e0-2606-47c8-8ecc-bf1c4bdcd169Post:b81f634e-2f18-4edc-85ec-183d1c924df4">Re: Birth rape?</a>:
[QUOTE]I don't get this whole 'birth plan' thing. Granted, I want to have some idea of how it's going to go. But I'm sure it NEVER goes according to plan, so it seems like a waste to get all strung out about it. I've also never been pregnant, so maybe that will change once I'm knocked up.
Posted by cfaszews25[/QUOTE]

I understand it in some aspects -- some mothers don't want epidurals, some mothers don't want etc. etc. etc.  It's the ones that are like "light music playing in the background", "no dilation checks from the doctors, we will push when we are ready", "no monitors on the baby", etc.  It makes me wonder why people have babies in hospitals, if they really don't want ANY medical intervention whatsoever.  Why not just have the baby at home or at a birthing center?

I don't have a problem with home births, doulas, etc.  I'm pro-hospital birth all the way, because the idea that something could happen freaks me out.  My best friend's husband was born in the hospital after a textbook perfect pregnancy, but when his mom was pushing, she had a placental abruption (placenta tears from the uterine wall).  If she wasn't in a hospital, they probably would both have died.  That's the kind of thing that makes me never want to have a baby anywhere but in a hospital.

Snippylynn

I think the birth plan revolves around wanting to have some sort of control over the situation, but it's something that is honestly, in my opinion, almost entirely out of the control of the women. The situation is incredibly charged, there are hormones and anxiety and stress through the roof-- the only people who have a level head and fully understand everything are the doctors and nurses. If you've made it through 9 months of pregnancy with a doctor who you don't trust, that's on YOU and not on the decisions of the medical staff.

And yeah, this woman sounds like a peach.

baystateapple

Anyone remember that crazy girl from The Bump who had her "art of making a baby" blog?  She had a HUGE birth plan, and the whole thing went right out the window when she gave birth.  She didn't have a problem birth, but she had the epidural and all that, after swearing up and down and sideways that she wasn't going to do it, that epidurals were bad for the baby, etc. 

I think making plans for the situation is wholly different from BEING in the situation.  You may not want an epidural to begin with, but you MAY want it when you're in labor and in intense pain.  And it makes me sad that people equate that as "copping out" or "giving up."  Holy shiit, you're giving birth to a child, why should you feel guilty for wanting pain relief?

adamar15

Ha, I didn't know that girl ended up with an epi.  Awesome.  My best friend went in not wanting the epidural, but after 12 hours of laboring she said "fuuck this shiit, give me the drugs" and went on to have a beautiful delivery.  Shiit happens, plans change. 

RupertPenny

I will probably have a 10 page long birth plan. I am controlling and I like to research. I will know I'm being stupid though. 

baystateapple

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_birth-rape?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:75fcb7e0-2606-47c8-8ecc-bf1c4bdcd169Post:28837df9-b30c-424b-88ed-d7ee188d318f">Re: Birth rape?</a>:
[QUOTE]Ha, I didn't know that girl ended up with an epi.  Awesome.  My best friend went in not wanting the epidural, but after 12 hours of laboring she said "fuuck this shiit, give me the drugs" and went on to have a beautiful delivery.  Shiit happens, plans change. 
Posted by adamar15[/QUOTE]

Yup.  And she fell all over herself trying to come up with reasons why she had it.  My first reaction was "dude, chill, it's just an epidural, it's not like you smoked crack during labor."  But then I realized that she probably knows a whole bunch of militant mommies who would judge her for using it, and that she herself was one of them before she was there living it.  Must be tough to eat your words on a public forum.

sarabellam

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_birth-rape?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:75fcb7e0-2606-47c8-8ecc-bf1c4bdcd169Post:b81f634e-2f18-4edc-85ec-183d1c924df4">Re: Birth rape?</a>:
[QUOTE]I don't get this whole 'birth plan' thing. Granted, I want to have some idea of how it's going to go.<strong> But I'm sure it NEVER goes according to plan, so it seems like a waste to get all strung out about it.</strong> I've also never been pregnant, so maybe that will change once I'm knocked up.
Posted by cfaszews25[/QUOTE]

Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. For me, I was 1 for 2 on birth plans going according to what I wanted. In the end, both times I got beautiful, healthy babies (who are now driving me crazy at times, given that they are 13 and 11, and both are pre-menstrual, hormonal jerks right now). One thing I have learned about parenting is forget about the absolutes; e.g. "I'll NEVER let my child do XYZ." (See what I did right there? :)

Snippylynn

That's what I mean about the super militant mom's, Bay. You can ONLY have a VBAC birth, or it doesn't count. You can ONLY give birth naturally.  You aren't allowed to have any drugs or blah blah blah. It's just stupid.

[Deleted User]

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_birth-rape?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:75fcb7e0-2606-47c8-8ecc-bf1c4bdcd169Post:81417574-5e26-4401-98c0-04ef9b99f496">Birth rape?</a>:
[QUOTE]First off, I have SERIOUS issues with the term 'birth rape'.  That is absolutely not what this should be called. Medical malpractice is the term, mkay?  I think it demeans the word rape by adding something like this, especially when it's this.
Posted by Snippylynn[/QUOTE]
Agreed. This was my thought before I opened the thread, and was going to say the same if no one else had.

[Deleted User]

Bay, I'm the same way. I'd want to be in the hospital in case something went wrong. My heart stopped beating when my mom was in labor, so they had to get me out asap. And they knew that because of "medical intervention."

I don't understand the mindset of not wanting any medical assistance like that. Too many "what ifs."

baystateapple

Women are bitches.  It's always something.  Militant mothering makes me sick. 

My best friend (who has three kids) pointed out that fighting over things like epidurals and c-sections is stupid.  By the time those kids are in preschool, is anyone going to know if you gave birth naturally, with an epidural, or via c-section?  Nope.  It doesn't matter.  It's just something for women to lord over each other.  Stupid.

Snippylynn

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_birth-rape?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:75fcb7e0-2606-47c8-8ecc-bf1c4bdcd169Post:ce30eaea-dcbd-4d5b-90fa-adebbfe4c683">Re: Birth rape?</a>:
[QUOTE]Women are bitches.  It's always something.  Militant mothering makes me sick.  My best friend (who has three kids) pointed out that fighting over things like epidurals and c-sections is stupid.  By the time those kids are in preschool, is anyone going to know if you gave birth naturally, with an epidural, or via c-section?  Nope.  It doesn't matter.  It's just something for women to lord over each other.  Stupid.
Posted by baystateapple[/QUOTE]
God, YES. I just don't understand these women who think it's some sort of honor badge they get to pin to their sleeves and wear around. Honestly, if you are THAT concerned about this, 5 years from now, you need a <strong><u>L.I.F.E.</u></strong>

sarabellam

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_birth-rape?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:75fcb7e0-2606-47c8-8ecc-bf1c4bdcd169Post:ce30eaea-dcbd-4d5b-90fa-adebbfe4c683">Re: Birth rape?</a>:
[QUOTE]  It's just something for women to lord over each other.  Stupid.
Posted by baystateapple[/QUOTE]

Agreed. Had my OB known just how large my younger daughter was, he might have pushed for me to have a C-section. The weight estimates were a bit off, so I just went with what I originally had planned.

And I agree with everyone who says that using the word rape in this instance diminishes the impact of the word. She wasn't raped. She just didn't get her ideal birth story. Move on, already.

lyndausvi

i was in the delivery room for a friend of mine.  Her birth plan included drugs.   The baby came so damn quick they could not give her any.   Actually, most of her birth plan went out the window because it happen so quick.

I think having a loose birth plan is good.  Things like no drugs, the baby is not to leave to be whisked off to a nursery, MIL is NOT to be delivery room, etc. are fine.  Detailing every situation is ridiculous.  Every birth is different and you can't possible predict everything that is going to happen.  

adamar15

Should we discuss breast-feeding vs. formula-feeding now?


I KID, I KID.