In an effort to stir things up...

JessAndTrav

I'm currently watching episodes of Morgan Spurlock's 30 Days on my Netflix via XBox.

The episode I'm watching now is a person who is pro-choice spending 30 Days in a Maternity Shelter that's Pro-Life.

So, the question is, where do you stand?

Feel free to discuss.

ETA: Cancel "For abortion" and read it as "I'm for the right to choose" or something like that. I really wish you could edit polls.

Bubbalub

I would never get an abortion myself, especially at this late in life, for anything other than life-threatening reasons. But I would never take that choice away from another woman. Sure, I judge some people who have them. I judge the women that use abortions like birth control. But I would never take away their right to a choice. It's their body, their choice.

sucrets4

I dislike that some of the poll choices are "for abortion". 

There's a reason why it's called pro-choice.

Bubbalub

I agree, Sucrets. That's why I voted "Other".

JessAndTrav

Sorry. That's actually what I mean. They just keep saying the word abortion and I guess it was in front of the word choice in my head.

autumncallalilys

I have issue with the government putting laws into my uterus. It has nothing to do with my personal feelings about the subject, more about the role of the government. While I would never have one myself, it don't think it's the government's right to say someone else can't have one.

polichik

I'm against it, but I think it should stay legalized to ensure safety. It's kind of how I feel about drugs and prostitution... I'd rather have something dangerous be legal so that it can be regulated and not driven underground.

ggmae

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_effort-stir-things-up?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:77ee9122-857f-4838-8452-140b2327e979Post:cfa13967-c014-4703-8e85-5f5ad170b4b8">Re: In an effort to stir things up...</a>:
[QUOTE]I have issue with the government putting laws into my uterus. It has nothing to do with my personal feelings about the subject, more about the role of the government. While I would never have one myself, it don't think it's the government's right to say someone else can't have one.
Posted by autumncallalilys[/QUOTE]

I agree 100% with this. I think that the government should keep its nose out of a lot of things, this being one of them.

JessAndTrav

I personally am against it, but I would never want it to be illegal.

If it were illegal, we'd go right back to the 1950s where women were using hangers to kill the baby and then they'd kill themselves by accident.

opalsky007

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_effort-stir-things-up?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:77ee9122-857f-4838-8452-140b2327e979Post:4b7c303a-a960-468a-9dc2-453432dcbcee">Re: In an effort to stir things up...</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm against it, but I think it should stay legalized to ensure safety. It's kind of how I feel about drugs and prostitution... I'd rather have something dangerous be legal so that it can be regulated and not driven underground.
Posted by polichik[/QUOTE]

My thoughts exactly.

bbyckes

I don't like to think I'm "for" it.  I am for a woman's right to make the best decision for her and her family.

I was in a position a long, long time ago where I could have ended a pregnancy.  I chose not to, but I'm glad I had a choice.

squirrly

I don't think anybody but my doctor & I have should have decision making authority on what goes on in my body.  What choice I make is none of anyone else's concern, especially the government.  (Note:  if I were to be in the situation to contemplate this, the father would be somebody I would talk with, but the final decision would be mine and mine alone.)

autumncallalilys

Thinking about what Squirrly said, should the father be informed or have any say in the abortion?

ricksang

I don't care either way. It's one of those topics I am, meh, about.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

I'm pro abortion! Just kidding. Sort of. No really, I agree with Squirrly.


In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_effort-stir-things-up?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:77ee9122-857f-4838-8452-140b2327e979Post:08d235f1-e85f-484b-b90e-29224f734dd5">Re: In an effort to stir things up...</a>:
[QUOTE]Thinking about what Squirrly said, should the father be informed or have any say in the abortion?
Posted by autumncallalilys[/QUOTE]

Well, it would be ideal if the woman were in a relationship in which she and the father of the fetus could have that kind of conversation. And honestly, a large percentage of women who get abortions are married and/or already have children, so I ASSUME the father absolutely has a say. But many women cannot talk to the "father" (one night stand, rape, incest, unknown father) and as he isn't the one who needs to deal with the pregnancy, then no, he should absolutely not have the final say or have to sign off on it or anything of the sort.

And FWIW, I read a stat a few months ago that women still do 80% of child care in the home (even when they are married and living with their husband/child's father), so while I realize men certainly have parental rights in terms of things like adoption and custody, that is something to think about.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

Some other questions to contemplate (just because I'm curious so I hope someone answers them):

Can a woman be a feminist if she is against the right to an abortion?

If you are pro-choice, would you feel that way if there were free birth control options that were 100% effective?

If you are pro-life, what, ideally, do you think should be done to enforce a ban on abortion if it should ever become illegal? Should a woman be tried for murder? Should her doctor? Does it matter how old the fetus is? Should a woman be responsible fo a miscarriage she COULD have prevented (due to drinking, drugs, etc)?

jasmineh7777

Personally, I could not do it. I do not think it should be used as birth control. However, I can't stand people with the aborted fetus signs. I really want to stop and ask those people exactly how many children they have adopted or fostered.
There are more appopriate ways to express your opinion.
I see the pp point about government control. If you are against abortion, though, you are advocating for the unborn fetus that has no one else to advocate for it. I know people who are strongly against abortion, and they literally think of it as murder.

JanoBean75

I'm very pro-choice. As PP have said, the government needs to stay the F out of my body.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_effort-stir-things-up?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:77ee9122-857f-4838-8452-140b2327e979Post:5292468f-da73-4952-98cb-c3108e2927dd">Re: In an effort to stir things up...</a>:
[QUOTE]Personally, I could not do it. I do not think it should be used as birth control. However, I can't stand people with the aborted fetus signs. I really want to stop and ask those people exactly how many children they have adopted or fostered. There are more appopriate ways to express your opinion. I see the pp point about government control. If you are against abortion, though, you are advocating for the unborn fetus that has no one else to advocate for it.<strong> I know people who are strongly against abortion, and they literally think of it as murder.</strong>
Posted by jasmineh7777[/QUOTE]

That is why there will never be concensus on this issue. If some people think it is murder, you can never convince them it is NOT murder. They will not say, "Oh, well I see that you make valid points. Perhaps murder in this case is okay."

And FWIW, I have never been in a situation where I had to make a decision about abortion, so I honestly can't tell you what decision I would make.

amalama

I voted I could never do it, but can't judge those who do. But more accurately I try not to judge those who do. There are a couple women I know who have had multiple abortions and it is hard not to wonder how someone keeps getting themselves into that situation, but I know I don't know all the details so I try not to be judgy.

I definitely don't think it is wrong in all situations or that it should be illegal. For safety reasons and because I don't think the government should have any say in this.

squirrly

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_effort-stir-things-up?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:77ee9122-857f-4838-8452-140b2327e979Post:d89d3cd5-3e21-4be4-acc0-32e531032577">Re: In an effort to stir things up...</a>:
[QUOTE]Some other questions to contemplate (just because I'm curious so I hope someone answers them): Can a woman be a feminist if she is against the right to an abortion? [/QUOTE]
Yes.

[QUOTE]If you are pro-choice, would you feel that way if there were free birth control options that were 100% effective? [/QUOTE]
Doesn't change anything for me.  It's my choice.  It's a private decision to be made by patient and doctor.  A woman who isn't in a relationship and doesn't want full-time bc because of this shouldn't be forced to carry a baby to term if she gets pregnant due to rape, for example.  And - she shouldn't have to use a specific type of BC to qualify for an abortion, either.  Personal, private choice.  All the time.

[QUOTE]If you are pro-life, what, ideally, do you think should be done to enforce a ban on abortion if it should ever become illegal? Should a woman be tried for murder? Should her doctor? Does it matter how old the fetus is? Should a woman be responsible fo a miscarriage she COULD have prevented (due to drinking, drugs, etc)?
Posted by msmerymac[/QUOTE]

I think the other important question is around women who have had multiple abortions.  Do I personally think that's right?  No.  But - there's no way to regulate that without putting in limits for others that I don't think are appropriate.  I don't think the risks of limiting who/what/when/where/etc. to minimize abortion are worthwhile.  The people that's meant to stop/control will find a way around it, and the ones "punished" will be women in different circumstances that the rules were not designed for. 

autumncallalilys

Some other questions to contemplate (just because I'm curious so I hope someone answers them): Can a woman be a feminist if she is against the right to an abortion? I think so. If your religious beliefs are against abortion that's one thing. You can still be a feminist about other issues.

 If you are pro-choice, would you feel that way if there were free birth control options that were 100% effective? Free birth control options would be awesome.However, I'm not sure how you'd fund that. Without getting into the healthcare debate, I don't think it's the government's responsibility to provide prescriptions with tax payer money. But I don't think that would negate the need for abortion. There are instances, (rape, incest) where you can't always be prepared. I realize that's probably not the majority (I don't know the statistics) but I think it should still be an option for thoses cases. Regardless of the moral issues, I will always be against the government regulating such a private matter.

jasmineh7777

In the cases of rape and incest, I can understand it.
When it comes to "We fuucked up and I don't want a kid" I think that adoption is a better option. It is not ideal, but IMO it is better than having an abortion, especiialy at a phase of the pregnancy where the doctor can hear a heartbeat, etc.
My family did foster care for a number of years, and I can tell you not every person against abortion is helping with the unwanted children. I think if you want abortion to be illegal, you need to step up and act on those opinions.

impslave

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_effort-stir-things-up?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:77ee9122-857f-4838-8452-140b2327e979Post:d89d3cd5-3e21-4be4-acc0-32e531032577">Re: In an effort to stir things up...</a>:
[QUOTE]Some other questions to contemplate (just because I'm curious so I hope someone answers them): Can a woman be a feminist if she is against the right to an abortion? If you are pro-choice, would you feel that way if there were free birth control options that were 100% effective? If you are pro-life, what, ideally, do you think should be done to enforce a ban on abortion if it should ever become illegal? Should a woman be tried for murder? Should her doctor? Does it matter how old the fetus is? Should a woman be responsible fo a miscarriage she COULD have prevented (due to drinking, drugs, etc)?
Posted by msmerymac[/QUOTE]

* Not sure if feminism has a standard definition.  For me, being a feminist means that I am in charge of my life.  I do not place life-changing decisions in the hands of a man (father, husband, etc), nor in the government.  That said, I would find it hard to be a feminist and anti-choice.

* Even if birth control were free and 100% effective, many abortions take place because an intended pregnancy went awry.  Many medical conditions that are detrimental to both mother and fetus may require an abortion to save the mother's life or protect her health.  In those situations, birth control is irrelevant, but a safe abortion is needed.

* I'm pro-choice, so #3 doesn't relate to me.

Overall, I am pro-choice and I don't think abortion should be approached lightly.  If I had ever been in a position where having a baby wasn't the right thing to do, I probably would have had an abortion. But I can understand the position of those who would never want to consider it.  Hence, "to each their own."

Blueyed228

I just think that unless you have ever been in the situation where you have to make that choice, then its really not something you should judge. I know of people who were VERY pro-life, untill it happened to them and they chose abortion.  I think your perspective changes based off of your own experience with it. I dont judge anyone for doing something that I have no experience with.

That being said, I am also of the belief that the govenment should mind their own business.  If I want to eat trans fat, smoke 5 packs of cigarettes a day, have an abortion, and sit in a tanning bed everyday of my life then that is my choice.  I pay my own taxes, I pay my own health insurance, so stay out of my life.

evabee

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_effort-stir-things-up?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:77ee9122-857f-4838-8452-140b2327e979Post:14f46384-e241-47f9-95f0-0777404a6096">Re: In an effort to stir things up...</a>:
[QUOTE] That being said, I am also of the belief that the govenment should mind their own business.  If I want to eat trans fat, smoke 5 packs of cigarettes a day, have an abortion, and sit in a tanning bed everyday of my life then that is my choice.  I pay my own taxes, I pay my own health insurance, so stay out of my life.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]

<div>I am split, because part of me agrees with this, but the other side of me says "Hey, I pay taxes, and I don't want my tax money spent trying to keep someone alive who doesn't give two shiits about keeping him/herself alive" through MedicAid and other forms of socialized medicine. </div><div>
</div><div>I think education is the answer. If we can spend our tax money teaching people why they should eat healthy, use birth control (as long as it doesn't violate their religious views), and get annual check ups, we put the onus in their hands and they're able to make an educated decision that's truly best for them. So I think the government's business with our bodies is in education, not laws.</div>

Blueyed228

II am split, because part of me agrees with this, but the other side of me says "Hey, I pay taxes, and I don't want my tax money spent trying to keep someone alive who doesn't give two shiits about keeping him/herself alive" through MedicAid and other forms of socialized medicine
 
would agree with you if I used some form of govenment funded (therefore tax funded) medical care.  But I pay $500 a month for my own health insurance.  That should grant me the right to live my life however I want to.  But thay may just be the Libertarian in me  

Sure we should all want to lead healthy long lives, but not because the government tells me I have to.  I do agree with the education though.

Celles

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_effort-stir-things-up?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:77ee9122-857f-4838-8452-140b2327e979Post:4827ab85-637a-4973-aaa7-7c11aae0f5fe">Re: In an effort to stir things up...</a>:
[QUOTE]In the cases of rape and incest, I can understand it. When it comes to "We fuucked up and I don't want a kid" I think that adoption is a better option. It is not ideal, but IMO it is better than having an abortion, especiialy at a phase of the pregnancy where the doctor can hear a heartbeat, etc.
Posted by jasmineh7777[/QUOTE]

I don't understand this line of thinking, although I've heard it from many, many people.  IF abortion is murder, then abortion is ALWAYS murder.  The circumstances surrounding conception have no bearing whatsoever on when the fetus ceases to be a cluster of rapidly multiplying cells and becomes instead an individual being with the right to independent life.  Rape, incest, broken condom, one night stand...  from the fetus's standpoint, it's all the same.

That said, I am strongly pro-choice.

Here's another question.  If you're pro-life or anti-abortion, how do you feel about in vitro fertiization given that embryos that aren't implanted are ultimately discarded?

AlexiaANDRobert

I chose other because I don't think I could ever do it.  Thankfully, I've never had to make that decision...

I'm against it because I think some people use it as a form of birth control.  That pisses me off.

If you're twelve and an ass-hat uncle raped you and gets you pregnant, well, I can't make that choice and think you should be able to have one.

My upbringing has taught me that even in the terrible example I mentioned above, that baby is meant to be born for a reason, but I don't think someone should tell you how to live your life.  The fact that adoption is always an option makes me think abortions really aren't necessary.  Yeah, it's nine months and a lot of change in your life, but there are A LOT of people that want children and can't have them.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

Celles, I agree with you. Although I am adamantly pro-choice, I have to respect a pro-lifer who is against abortion in ALL cases - rape included. It just seems consistent.

And although I'm pro-choice I'm anti-IVF. For me, personally. I think it should be up to a couple/individual to do it. But it isn't a choice I'd make. That is a whole different topic!

katiewhompus

I do wonder on the guys take on abortion. I mean, yes its ultimately the female in the relationship (or one night stand) who is going to be the most directly impacted and I do believe final say rests with the woman. But what if you are in a relationship and something screwed up?
a) woman wants to abort, man thinks its wrong (religious reasons or pro-life)
b) woman doesn't want to abort, man wants to (he's now stuck paying child support for the rest of his life, even if he doesn't stick around to raise the kid)

Again, I do think the ultimate choice lies with the woman, and I think the govt should stay the hell away from my reproductive choices, but the guys get the shitty end of the stick a lot of times too.