Little girl denied transplant because of mental disability

AllAboutTheBenjamin

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_little-girl-denied-transplant-because-of-mental-disability?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:97ace936-0e90-4bd7-be01-7f39f1d54593Post:134bc3f1-8b32-4344-b204-43321639c417">Re: Little girl denied transplant because of mental disability</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Little girl denied transplant because of mental disability : My guess would be no because bone marrow regenerates correct?  Granted, a liver does too.  I think bone marrow is closer to the blood department than the organ department.  I might be wrong though.
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]

I know a patient can reject bone marrow.  I followed a caringbridge site of a young boy with the same condition as my cousin; he had two bone marrow transplants.  The first one, his body rejected and it didn't work.  The second transplant cured him but he ended up dying from an unrelated infection :(

aragx6

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_little-girl-denied-transplant-because-of-mental-disability?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:97ace936-0e90-4bd7-be01-7f39f1d54593Post:0df3bec2-2a62-43a5-aef3-35c79b1c757d">Re: Little girl denied transplant because of mental disability</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Little girl denied transplant because of mental disability : They can be donors, but in order to receive an organ, all of the blood is to be drained from it first.  At least that's my understanding of the rule.
Posted by dumdumfroggie[/QUOTE]

Ahh, that makes sense.

dumdumfroggie

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_little-girl-denied-transplant-because-of-mental-disability?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:97ace936-0e90-4bd7-be01-7f39f1d54593Post:40474eae-0c3c-4211-a1ce-424a4c78e4ce">Re: Little girl denied transplant because of mental disability</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Little girl denied transplant because of mental disability : Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're implying the college students aren't trained.  If they're administering medications, they damn well better be trained.  Just because they're working part time while in college doesn't mean they aren't trained.  Of course they are.  They don't just throw people into the group homes and say "Ok, good luck!"
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]

<div>
</div><div>In all the group homes that I've worked in, only some people are trained to give medication (CNA/CMA/MA), not everyone.</div>

J&K10910

I believe bone marrow is considered a tissue.

But I believe it's still regulated under similar (if not the same) standards, because bone marrow transplants are still a hell of a process, which includes killing all the recipient's current marrow first, etc.

J&K10910

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_little-girl-denied-transplant-because-of-mental-disability?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:97ace936-0e90-4bd7-be01-7f39f1d54593Post:8f9fff02-1391-4c5e-96e6-ef4f5a1f4b01">Re: Little girl denied transplant because of mental disability</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Little girl denied transplant because of mental disability : In all the group homes that I've worked in, only some people are trained to give medication (CNA/CMA/MA), not everyone.
Posted by dumdumfroggie[/QUOTE]

I was under the impression it is a federal law for anyone administering medication to go through a medication administration course.

ETA:  google tells me that the specific laws vary from state to state, but that you must at least go through a course in order to administer medication.

Stackeye210

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_little-girl-denied-transplant-because-of-mental-disability?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:97ace936-0e90-4bd7-be01-7f39f1d54593Post:24ce3cce-70ba-4953-9e9e-b7c1c638a6ad">Re: Little girl denied transplant because of mental disability</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Little girl denied transplant because of mental disability : Yeah.  And I found it really pointless to say "everyone be organ donors" in the way she did.  It was like "this just shows that we should all be organ donors"....... no it doesn't show that.
Posted by crfb87[/QUOTE]

<div>Exactly.  </div>

dumdumfroggie

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_little-girl-denied-transplant-because-of-mental-disability?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:97ace936-0e90-4bd7-be01-7f39f1d54593Post:19c9e878-8405-45d8-97d1-548e1cea95ec">Re: Little girl denied transplant because of mental disability</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Little girl denied transplant because of mental disability : I was under the impression it is a federal law for anyone administering medication to go through a medication administration course.
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]

<div>It is, but not all workers in a group home have to pass meds, therefore many aren't trained in it.</div><div>
</div><div>ETA:  which is what I think Nikki was trying to say.  Also, in the agencies I've worked for (5 of them), the training (non med-passing) really hasn't been too stellar.  But, that's another issue.</div>

specialk84

J, I'm reading that as "not everyone is trained to give medication, so not everyone gives medication."

I could be wrong.

J&K10910

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_little-girl-denied-transplant-because-of-mental-disability?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:97ace936-0e90-4bd7-be01-7f39f1d54593Post:1bb545b8-aa28-435d-807e-659e2285dc5f">Re: Little girl denied transplant because of mental disability</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Little girl denied transplant because of mental disability : It is, but not all workers in a group home have to pass meds, therefore many aren't trained in it.
Posted by dumdumfroggie[/QUOTE]

Well then apparently you missed my point.  Because if they're not administering meds, then I guess they don't have a reason to be trained...so then it wouldn't matter.

What I got from Nicki's post is that they had people in there that weren't trained AT ALL (in ANYTHING, not just pertaining to meds).  Which is absolutely terrifying if it's true.

J&K10910

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_little-girl-denied-transplant-because-of-mental-disability?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:97ace936-0e90-4bd7-be01-7f39f1d54593Post:d8557d1c-91ae-4ecc-afdb-92a6c3d4624f">Re: Little girl denied transplant because of mental disability</a>:
[QUOTE]J, I'm reading that as "not everyone is trained to give medication, so not everyone gives medication." I could be wrong.
Posted by specialk84[/QUOTE]

Yes.  I didn't realize we started talking about people that weren't giving medication, since there's no relevance there to the point I was making.

J&K10910

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_little-girl-denied-transplant-because-of-mental-disability?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:97ace936-0e90-4bd7-be01-7f39f1d54593Post:1bb545b8-aa28-435d-807e-659e2285dc5f">Re: Little girl denied transplant because of mental disability</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Little girl denied transplant because of mental disability : It is, but not all workers in a group home have to pass meds, therefore many aren't trained in it. ETA:  which is what I think Nikki was trying to say.  Also, in the agencies I've worked for (5 of them), the training (non med-passing) really hasn't been too stellar.  But, that's another issue.
Posted by dumdumfroggie[/QUOTE]

We keep editing and missing each other.

If that was, indeed, what she was trying to say, then it doesn't matter.  There will always need to be someone there that CAN pass meds, so the fact that some of them can't really is inconsequential.

jessicabessica

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_little-girl-denied-transplant-because-of-mental-disability?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:97ace936-0e90-4bd7-be01-7f39f1d54593Post:24ce3cce-70ba-4953-9e9e-b7c1c638a6ad">Re: Little girl denied transplant because of mental disability</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Little girl denied transplant because of mental disability : Yeah.  And I found it really pointless to say "everyone be organ donors" in the way she did.  It was like "this just shows that we should all be organ donors"....... no it doesn't show that.
Posted by crfb87[/QUOTE]

<div>I had a response but TK ate it.  </div><div>
</div><div>I would agree that the comment was out of place if everyone hadn't already started about how decisions are made about who gets transplants, but the conversation had already gone there, and I think that the number of organs available may affect how decisions are made about who gets them.  And I already agreed with you and PPs who said it was a preachy way to phrase it.  </div>

dumdumfroggie

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_little-girl-denied-transplant-because-of-mental-disability?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:97ace936-0e90-4bd7-be01-7f39f1d54593Post:39e54fd9-7233-4ca2-94dc-e19986f141ac">Re: Little girl denied transplant because of mental disability</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Little girl denied transplant because of mental disability : We keep editing and missing each other. If that was, indeed, what she was trying to say, then it doesn't matter. <strong> There will always need to be someone there that CAN pass meds, so the fact that some of them can't really is inconsequential.</strong>
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]

<div>Yes and No</div><div>
</div><div>A lot of times all of the staff working was not trained in passing medication.  They would have a staff person who was trained come in a different times during the day to pass meds.  So in a case like this little girl (or in most cases) where medication is on a regimented time frame, it works out just fine.  However, if there is need for emergency medication or something of the sort, it is possible that there would not be someone there who was trained.</div>

nhahn2206

To the point about doctor's not doing what they can to save you if you're an organ donor- I was reading a blog post about a woman who was hit and killed in a car accident. She was crossing the street in front of a school and was run into. They got her to the hospital and initially declared her brain dead. She was an organ donor. They waited a prescribed amount of time and began to see sinus rhythm, so they ran further tests and did what they could to bring her back. In the end, she died and donated her organs, but I think the doctors truly did everything they could to bring her back. I would certainly hope this is always the case with any person, regardless of of any outside choices.

ErinG93

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_little-girl-denied-transplant-because-of-mental-disability?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:97ace936-0e90-4bd7-be01-7f39f1d54593Post:39e54fd9-7233-4ca2-94dc-e19986f141ac">Re: Little girl denied transplant because of mental disability</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Little girl denied transplant because of mental disability : We keep editing and missing each other. If that was, indeed, what she was trying to say, then it doesn't matter.  There will always need to be someone there that CAN pass meds, so the fact that some of them can't really is inconsequential.
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>My husband gives meds out at the jail. I am going to ask him if he is trained to do so. I feel like maybe in the academy they train you to do that, but if not I am going to be a little pissed at this commander for allowing them to give out meds untrained. Now I feel reallllly stupid for never even asking him about his medicine giving practices.

</div>

J&K10910

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_little-girl-denied-transplant-because-of-mental-disability?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:97ace936-0e90-4bd7-be01-7f39f1d54593Post:45724520-e642-483c-93fc-78a3f6914faa">Re: Little girl denied transplant because of mental disability</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Little girl denied transplant because of mental disability : Yes and No A lot of times all of the staff working was not trained in passing medication.  They would have a staff person who was trained come in a different times during the day to pass meds.  So in a case like this little girl (or in most cases) where medication is on a regimented time frame, it works out just fine.  However, if there is need for emergency medication or something of the sort, it is possible that there would not be someone there who was trained.
Posted by dumdumfroggie[/QUOTE]

Ok, so your laws are a little different than ours then.  Makes sense.  When I was in residential treatment, we ALWAYS had to had someone there that could pass meds.  Different licensing too. 

I get what you're saying now.  I think I was misunderstanding you before.

Either way--I still completely agree with the main point that it would be difficult regardless of the situation.  I think I'm done arguing for no reason now ;)

specialk84

My father has two very specific requirements for us when he dies:

1. Tell the transplant team to harvest whatever they can. He's not going to need it, but someone else does.

2. Bury him in the cheapest casket available. If cardboard is an option, do it. He'll be dead, and he doesn't want us wasting money on something that's going to rot.

J&K10910

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_little-girl-denied-transplant-because-of-mental-disability?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:97ace936-0e90-4bd7-be01-7f39f1d54593Post:db5fd01c-5176-4963-9608-ef00d6aa45f5">Re: Little girl denied transplant because of mental disability</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Little girl denied transplant because of mental disability : My husband gives meds out at the jail. I am going to ask him if he is trained to do so. I feel like maybe in the academy they train you to do that, but if not I am going to be a little pissed at this commander for allowing them to give out meds untrained. Now I feel reallllly stupid for never even asking him about his medicine giving practices.
Posted by ErinG93[/QUOTE]

Well, there's potentially a difference though.  Like in residential, I was actually administering the meds.  It's probably the same in a jail.  In the halfway house, I was OBSERVING them self-administer.  The training is incredibly different, and it depends a lot on which way the jail administers the meds.

crfische

I'm trained to pass meds. In fact, every person in my building is trained to pass meds.

In the event you're referring to if a medication is required, and they don't always have someone on who can pass them, they damn well better have an on-call nurse. Either that, or I hope they aren't accredited, because that's frowned upon.

J&K10910

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_little-girl-denied-transplant-because-of-mental-disability?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:97ace936-0e90-4bd7-be01-7f39f1d54593Post:c65d4027-90af-4427-b994-9fe87f29a856">Re: Little girl denied transplant because of mental disability</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm trained to pass meds. In fact, every person in my building is trained to pass meds. In the event you're referring to if a medication is required, and they don't always have someone on who can pass them, they damn well better have an on-call nurse. Either that, or I hope they aren't accredited, because that's frowned upon.
Posted by crfische[/QUOTE]

I actually was wondering if you were training to pass meds.  Our therapists weren't, but all the unit coordinators were, and all the full time and regular part time staff were.

mica178

I think in most of these homes, someone who can give (ie is licensed/certified) medications must be present at all times for patient safety reasons, but I am really only familiar with the laws in two states, I am sure that they differ a bit elsewhere.

I'm an organ donor.  I don't think H is.  To me, if I'm dead, I don't care what people do with my organs, so if someone else can have a life from  my death, go for it.  But that's my choice, and H doesn't feel the same way, so there.  We just had a morbid discussion about death this weekend, and it ended with him upset and me reassuring him that we'd hopefully both die when we are very old so that neither of us has to plan the other's funeral.  My poor H.  I think I need to outlive him for his own sake.

crfische

Heck yes I am! Just because...well...you never know, ya know? I don't think I've had to pass them in the 8 years I've been here more than maybe...4 times? And only usually in very odd situations.

Mica, for us, the laws are one thing, the standards of our accrediting body are another. And the standards are typically more specific than the laws.

mica178

Oh, yeah.  There are facilities where the staff is only trained to watch patients self-administer.  Obviously part of the criteria for patient placement in those settings is that they can self-administer medications.  Otherwise, the facility won't accept the patient, and if the patient is so sick that he/she can't take his/her own meds, he/she gets shipped off to the nearest ER.

ErinG93

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_little-girl-denied-transplant-because-of-mental-disability?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:97ace936-0e90-4bd7-be01-7f39f1d54593Post:c65d4027-90af-4427-b994-9fe87f29a856">Re: Little girl denied transplant because of mental disability</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm trained to pass meds. In fact, every person in my building is trained to pass meds. In the event you're referring to if a medication is required, and they don't always have someone on who can pass them, they damn well better have an on-call nurse. Either that, or I hope they aren't accredited, because that's frowned upon.
Posted by crfische[/QUOTE]

<div>They do have on-call doctor. I've actually been taking dinner to my H and they've had to call their doctor. It was craziness in there for a while and I just had to sit in the control room and wait until someone could walk me out. </div><div>
</div><div>My husband sure knows a hell of a lot about pills. </div>

dumdumfroggie

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_little-girl-denied-transplant-because-of-mental-disability?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:97ace936-0e90-4bd7-be01-7f39f1d54593Post:c65d4027-90af-4427-b994-9fe87f29a856">Re: Little girl denied transplant because of mental disability</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm trained to pass meds. In fact, every person in my building is trained to pass meds. In the event you're referring to if a medication is required, and they don't always have someone on who can pass them, they damn well better have an on-call nurse. Either that, or I hope they aren't accredited, because that's frowned upon.
Posted by crfische[/QUOTE]

<div>Oh yes, there's always someone who can be called in if needed, but they aren't always on-site.</div><div>
</div><div>Also, I don't agree with this, frankly I think there should be someone on every shift in every house available to pass meds at any time, but unfortunately there's not, unless something has changed.  I worked in that field for about 8 years but have been out fo 6 now.  Who knows.</div>

J&K10910

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_little-girl-denied-transplant-because-of-mental-disability?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:97ace936-0e90-4bd7-be01-7f39f1d54593Post:394c8af2-b5ed-4b9e-aa04-9531342fc83f">Re: Little girl denied transplant because of mental disability</a>:
[QUOTE]Oh, yeah.  There are facilities where the staff is only trained to watch patients self-administer.  Obviously part of the criteria for patient placement in those settings is that they can self-administer medications.  Otherwise, the facility won't accept the patient, and if the patient is so sick that he/she can't take his/her own meds, he/she gets shipped off to the nearest ER.
Posted by mica178[/QUOTE]

Yup, all our clients had to be capable of self care.  My "training" for observing self administration was a review of the med policies, "this is our medication administration record and here's how to fill it out," and "here watch us while we observe them," "Ok, now we watch you while you observe them."

But when I was actually passing meds, it was a two day, all day, stupid class with a test at the end.

Snippylynn

I'm an organ donor also (though, I actually don't think they can take any of mine because of chronic illnesses that I have) and I figure, hey, why not? 

I also don't want to be buried. I want to be cremated. Won't be anyone who visits my grave anyway!

Nickivegan

Sorry, I was talking to mom. Yes, some of the people are trained in medications, others are not. All of the inhabitants at my uncles GH can give themselves the medication (my uncle's watch is on a timer, but then he tells someone he is taking it.) some workers are there overnight only. But this particular home is full of people that are on the higher functioning end of their particular disabilities- the goal is for them to live on their own with a daily check in by staff. Sorry for any confusion. But yes, the college students (friends who worked in homes) did not give out medications, but helped with daily routines. They were trained in CPR/red cross certified. Each home is different, as is each states laws.

dumdumfroggie

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_little-girl-denied-transplant-because-of-mental-disability?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:97ace936-0e90-4bd7-be01-7f39f1d54593Post:cbaddf95-93d5-40f0-883d-56820bbe65f1">Re: Little girl denied transplant because of mental disability</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Little girl denied transplant because of mental disability : Yup, all our clients had to be capable of self care.  My "training" for observing self administration was a review of the med policies, "this is our medication administration record and here's how to fill it out," and "here watch us while we observe them," "Ok, now we watch you while you observe them." <strong>But when I was actually passing meds, it was a two day, all day, stupid class with a test at the end.</strong>
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]

<div>Ours were actually required to have their CMA license or registration, so it was several weeks worth a training.  </div>

J&K10910

Unforunately, MA classes are really expensive.  That's probably why they didn't train as many people at your facily, dumdum.  I'm guessing that there was a fairly high staff turnover rate and it wasn't worth it for them to train everyone that came through.  I had to wait 4 months for my MA class.

And with the post you posted while I was posting, I can DEFINITELY see why they didn't train all the people you worked with.  That sucks.