regarding the ms/miss/mrs situation

kinsey0628

i do think Ms. is the best title bc it's gender neutral... but it's kind of annoying that the choices even exist in the first place.  like that we even HAVE to pick between the three, that they all exist to specify our marital status.

whereas men, ONLY have "Mr" there's nothing that even exists to call them out on whether or not they are married.  i've heard the term "master" for single men from my grandma, like that's equivalent to "miss" but never ever heard that used.

Night_Sprite

Ms. is the equivalent of Mr.  Why do you dislike it?

mwhitson14

Ms. is the best title for what? For you?

I don't get the point of this. What am I missing?

kinsey0628

No, i'm not saying i don't like "Ms."  i DO like "Ms."

i'm saying it's sexist that the choice even exists for women to have to specify thier marital status, when for men, there is no option.

vlevitt

welcome to patriarchy, my friend. 

i also prefer the Ms. option, and think it should be standard.  

v.

andy71781

Yeah Ms. isn't supposed to denote marital status - it can be used for married women. 

For example today I am Ms. C., after the wedding I will be Ms. W.  If somebody is addressing my hubby and I they would say:  Dr. and Mrs. W.

sarah0725

Curses! Even if we make steps to rectify past wrongs in the present, the past still exists! Blast and dagnabbit!

kinsey0628

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_regarding-msmissmrs-situation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a480e154-3437-4c28-bddf-8988b3be1800Post:44965435-5f1e-4cf2-9497-5ed72a1eee80">Re: regarding the ms/miss/mrs situation</a>:
[QUOTE]Ms. is the best title for what? For you? I don't get the point of this. What am I missing?
Posted by mwhitson14[/QUOTE]

i guess best is the wrong word.  i just meant Ms is the most polite or nice or neutral, i dont know.

i was going off the what out dated etiquette rules annoy you from below... no real point.

tenofcups4me

The original point of Ms. was to replace Mrs. and Miss with one neutral title. If it had worked out, people wouldn't have to choose between the three because there would just be the one viable option that we would all use.

But too many women still choose to go by Mrs. to show they're married so in social situations Ms. has almost become an equivalent to Miss, which is really a shame, or used for women who are divorced or have kept their birth name. At least in business, it's become the default.

I'm still hopeful that eventually it will become the default for all women, but I thought that would have happened decades ago so who knows?

andy71781

I hate that we are going to have 3/9 supreme court justices be women and I've heard people say that's unbalanced or that Obama is "pandering" to women.  I hate patriachy too. It sucks.

mwhitson14

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_regarding-msmissmrs-situation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a480e154-3437-4c28-bddf-8988b3be1800Post:0823ce4e-0918-4c55-9bd0-f806f8c7a1d6">Re: regarding the ms/miss/mrs situation</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: regarding the ms/miss/mrs situation : i guess best is the wrong word.  i just meant Ms is the most polite or nice or neutral, i dont know. i was going off the what out dated etiquette rules annoy you from below... no real point.
Posted by kinsey0628[/QUOTE]

Oh, Hm. But yes, as far as neutral, Ms. is the best term to use.

I didn't realize you were going off the post outdated etiquette rules.

crfische

Whatever.

I'm a Mrs. and I'm down with that. It doesn't make me any less independent of a woman. I MAKE ME who I am, not my marital status.

I'm married. I'm a mrs. I'm proud of that.

I'm also an independent woman.

YOU make you what you are, not some stupid ass title.

tenofcups4me

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_regarding-msmissmrs-situation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:a480e154-3437-4c28-bddf-8988b3be1800Post:865eaf8f-3d29-41f0-ba52-f5735ea80d89">Re: regarding the ms/miss/mrs situation</a>:
[QUOTE]I hate that we are going to have 3/9 supreme court justices be women and I've heard people say that's unbalanced or that Obama is "pandering" to women.  I hate patriachy too. It sucks.
Posted by andy71781[/QUOTE]

Well it IS unbalanced -- we should have at least 4 or 5 <img src="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-tongue-out.gif" border="0" alt="Tongue out" title="Tongue out" />. (Yeah, I know that's not what you meant!)

kinsey0628

good thoughts tencups.  i had not thought of that.

now that i'm thinking about it, i can see why you would go with Mrs if you changed your last name... that way it kind of denotes that it's not the name your were born with, almost like in some ways you ARE noting that you have other family members out there that you grew up with but that woulnd't share your last name (anymore).  hmm... i dont know.  interesting.

but yeah, i agree and i guess am just saying in general it sux that women can have thier marital status announced for no reason, just in their name title.  maybe that's actually why titles are becoming obsolete all together.. which i do believe they are.

andy71781

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_regarding-msmissmrs-situation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a480e154-3437-4c28-bddf-8988b3be1800Post:d8051ddf-a210-42cd-ae75-436612c2be0b">Re: regarding the ms/miss/mrs situation</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: regarding the ms/miss/mrs situation : Well it IS unbalanced -- we should have at least 4 or 5 . (Yeah, I know that's not what you meant!)
Posted by tenofcups4me[/QUOTE]
I think you and I are on the same page - I'd like it to be equal - aka 4 or 5 (4.5 would be interesting though....)  :)

mwhitson14

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_regarding-msmissmrs-situation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a480e154-3437-4c28-bddf-8988b3be1800Post:22e6adab-b70e-460c-80f8-35bf9a283f44">Re: regarding the ms/miss/mrs situation</a>:
[QUOTE]Whatever. I'm a Mrs. and I'm down with that. It doesn't make me any less independent of a woman. I MAKE ME who I am, not my marital status. I'm married. I'm a mrs. I'm proud of that. I'm also an independent woman. YOU make you what you are, not some stupid ass title.
Posted by crfische[/QUOTE]

This, exactly. Your post really rubs me the wrong way and I just couldn't put my figner on it, and fischey nailed it.

luckyme502

The titles matter very little to me. So, I guess they are antiquated, since I just don't care! 

kinsey0628

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_regarding-msmissmrs-situation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a480e154-3437-4c28-bddf-8988b3be1800Post:22e6adab-b70e-460c-80f8-35bf9a283f44">Re: regarding the ms/miss/mrs situation</a>:
[QUOTE]Whatever. I'm a Mrs. and I'm down with that. It doesn't make me any less independent of a woman. I MAKE ME who I am, not my marital status. I'm married. I'm a mrs. I'm proud of that. I'm also an independent woman. YOU make you what you are, not some stupid ass title.
Posted by crfische[/QUOTE]

yeah, i agree.  if i got married and changed my name i would also become a Mrs.

but i AM still mad at the patriarchy. <img src="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-innocent.gif" border="0" alt="Innocent" title="Innocent" />

luckyme502

Maybe I don't care because I don't feel like I was raised in a patriarchy. 

andy71781

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_regarding-msmissmrs-situation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a480e154-3437-4c28-bddf-8988b3be1800Post:ec8d048a-7dd9-4c11-872c-fc29891a6240">Re: regarding the ms/miss/mrs situation</a>:
[QUOTE]Maybe I don't care because I don't feel like I was raised in a patriarchy. 
Posted by luckyme502[/QUOTE]

You are lucky - I sure as fuucck did. 

crfische

I've never felt HELD DOWN BY THE MAN.

Ever.

I was raised to think that no matter my name, where I am, who I am with, I am who I am and who I choose to be.

Just because I take a man's name doesn't make me anti-feminist.

Quite the opposite as feminism exists to give us a choice to do whatever we want and I respect that either way.

But my married name does not a Fishy make.

kinsey0628

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_regarding-msmissmrs-situation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a480e154-3437-4c28-bddf-8988b3be1800Post:b0bb8557-b80d-4512-9eb2-71bb444acbdd">Re: regarding the ms/miss/mrs situation</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: regarding the ms/miss/mrs situation : This, exactly. Your post really rubs me the wrong way and I just couldn't put my figner on it, and fischey nailed it.
Posted by mwhitson14[/QUOTE]

sorry whit!!

i didn't mean it that way...  definitely not trying to call out ppl who go by Mrs, bc that's definitely what i would do too if i got married.  i can see how it came off that way tho.

tenofcups4me

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_regarding-msmissmrs-situation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:a480e154-3437-4c28-bddf-8988b3be1800Post:22e6adab-b70e-460c-80f8-35bf9a283f44">Re: regarding the ms/miss/mrs situation</a>:
[QUOTE] I'm married. I'm a mrs. I'm proud of that. Posted by crfische[/QUOTE]

Iguess I just don't get that. I'm not "proud" to be married. I'm happy to be married, I love my husband, etc. etc. etc., but I don't see why my marital status is relevant to the average stranger. And if mine is relevant, then why isn't DH's?

andy71781

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_regarding-msmissmrs-situation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a480e154-3437-4c28-bddf-8988b3be1800Post:8a55c173-a238-49a7-b303-628999ea8ebd">Re: regarding the ms/miss/mrs situation</a>:
[QUOTE]I've never felt HELD DOWN BY THE MAN. Ever. I was raised to think that no matter my name, where I am, who I am with, I am who I am and who I choose to be. Just because I take a man's name doesn't make me anti-feminist. Quite the opposite as feminism exists to give us a choice to do whatever we want and I respect that either way. But my married name does not a Fishy make.
Posted by crfische[/QUOTE]

Rock on - choice is key.  Using Mrs and changing your name is not antifeminist at all, IMOP.

sarah0725

I tend to default to Ms. when I'm addressing people, or Professor or Dr. for that matter, considering I'm in an academic setting. And in most of my future life even after marriage I plan to use Ms. (or eventually Dr. depending on the situation). But if one of my kids' teacher calls me Mrs. M******, I'm not going to punch them in the eye.

It's kind of silly to be mad that choices exist, considering that they stem from hundreds of years of usage. It's not like we can erase words or concepts from existence.

crfische

What difference does it make if people know you are married or not and why do you care if every person on the corner can tell if your H is married by his "title?"

For the record, there are very few people that just go around calling me "Mrs. Fishy."

There's no reason why anyone really would. I think you'd be surprised at how rare it is that someone refers to ANYONE as Mrs. Anything unless you're a teacher.

People call me Christy for the most part.

kinsey0628

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_regarding-msmissmrs-situation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a480e154-3437-4c28-bddf-8988b3be1800Post:8a55c173-a238-49a7-b303-628999ea8ebd">Re: regarding the ms/miss/mrs situation</a>:
[QUOTE]I've never felt HELD DOWN BY THE MAN. Ever. I was raised to think that no matter my name, where I am, who I am with, I am who I am and who I choose to be. Just because I take a man's name doesn't make me anti-feminist. Quite the opposite as feminism exists to give us a choice to do whatever we want and I respect that either way. But my married name does not a Fishy make.
Posted by crfische[/QUOTE]

that is very cool, fische.  i wish i had that confidence... but i dunno... i just don't.. and where i work, i am like the ONLY woman... it's ALL men and i DO feel left out and not as respected and like i'm not regarded as knowledagable.  there is one other girl that is really crude and "one of the guys"  i'm not like that, so i feel like i can't fit in.

also, i probably do have a different perspective than a lot of you guys since i am SINGLE and in my 30s... i feel like ppl judge and wonder.  so it's really interesting to get your points of view.

i DEFINITELY did not mean to imply that getting married, or taking a mans name or going by MRS is "un-feminist" or whatever... that is makes you any less independent, etc.  i seriously do NOT feel that way.

but i'm still mad at the patriarchy.  <img src="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-innocent.gif" border="0" alt="Innocent" title="Innocent" />

mwhitson14

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_regarding-msmissmrs-situation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:a480e154-3437-4c28-bddf-8988b3be1800Post:4147cd2f-555e-4489-8127-1d3d1248e2e5">Re: regarding the ms/miss/mrs situation</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: regarding the ms/miss/mrs situation : sorry whit!! i didn't mean it that way...  definitely not trying to call out ppl who go by Mrs, bc that's definitely what i would do too if i got married.  i can see how it came off that way tho.
Posted by kinsey0628[/QUOTE]

It's ok! I mean, you're totally allowed your opinion, so I'm not sure why it rubbed me that way.

sarah0725

It's nice to be in a field where women kick butt. I know I'm going to deal with some crap when it's time for me to find a job in academia while raising a family, though.

crfische

Kins, there's a lot of single people in their 30's. Being married doesn't make ANYONE more or less of a person. Quite the opposite.

Rock on for waiting out for the right person and the right time. Ms. is just fine. In a professional setting people don't need to know your personal business which is why Ms. exists.

It allows you to have a title without disclosing your marital status.

luckyme502

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_regarding-msmissmrs-situation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:a480e154-3437-4c28-bddf-8988b3be1800Post:5f017f43-652f-4095-a7d5-bb3242aaaa92">Re: regarding the ms/miss/mrs situation</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: regarding the ms/miss/mrs situation : Iguess I just don't get that. I'm not "proud" to be married. I'm happy to be married, I love my husband, etc. etc. etc., but I don't see why my marital status is relevant to the average stranger. And if mine is relevant, then why isn't DH's?
Posted by tenofcups4me[/QUOTE]

When you meet the average stranger, do you actually say Mrs.?  Because I just say my name is Lucky Me.  No mention of a title to identify if I am married or not.  The ring might give it away, but not the name.  And how often are you writing, Mrs. FirstName LastName?  I almost never write that, just Lucky Me.  So I still don't get why these titles are big deal.