Dance floor injury & possible lawsuit - WWYD? (long)

nextrightthing

Can't hurt to call a lawyer.  In my state we have a consumer protection statute that addreses stuff like this.  Yours might too.

e33012837

Sorry guys, I did NOT mean "let's go to court" was a reasonable starting point. I meant "I didn't get what I paid for" should be a starting point for the reason I want my money back, versus having any sort of actual "damages".

I have no idea if the supervisor was a certifiied electrician. I also have no idea why I didn't think I needed to have the floor specified in great detail in my contract. This actually was one of our only vendors that even required a contract, so consider me lucky that my photographer and videographer showed up, and that the church didn't give away our reception space to someone else!

I have discovered something new that helps my contract. The company's "ugly light bulb" panels are 36 inches square. The colorful panels we were expecting are 30 inches square, and our contract clearly states that we ordered however many 30 inch panels. The guy at the company admitted this to my husband and told him they "thought they were doing us a favor" by giving us the bigger panels. Not sure if the "artistic liberty" bit in the contract matters here.

I might decide to discuss this with a family friend who is a lawyer (he was at the wedding), but I'm not sure I want to take up his time. The overwhelming opinion here seems to be take the 1/4 and run, so I'm strongly leaning that way as of this moment. Thanks everyone.

SD210

You don't need a lawyer to go to small claims court.  To me it sounds like they promised one thing (30 inch panels) and brought something else (36 inch, which look crappy and have gaps).  They can argue in defense that it is an artistic decision, but the photos speak for themselves.  You have been damaged - - you paid for something you didn't get.   

I don't see the harm in bringing a small claims case against them, aside from the fact that you might lose your time and the filing fee.  You may get them to settle with you prior to the hearing (maybe you could get 50% back instead of 1/4).  Small claims is very loosey-goosey - - you don't need to be Perry Mason to argue your case successfully in small claims.  Bring all the photographic evidence and give it a shot. 

Or, take the 1/4 and move on.  Your choice. 

ladyomnipotent

Go to small claims.  I think you've proven your case well enough.  You didn't get what you paid for.  You have tried to resolve this issue out of court and the company is not giving you a fair deal.  It is not overly litigious to go to small claims.  Small claims exists exactly for this purpose.

athomfor

I would go to small claims court. It isn't that expensive to file ($152 in my area) and if you win the other party has to pay your filling fee in addition to what ever the judgement against them is.
 
In my personal experience- in a small claims court case regarding the way an item was cooked for a wedding, the court sided with the client even though there was no written or verbal agreement on how the item was to be cooked. It was purely "he said- she said" and the judge went with the client and awarded them damages far exceeding the cost of the food item.

J&K10910

Ali, of course you can't sue for what COULD have happened.  FFS, then I could sue the car that cut me off because it COULD have caused an accident.  Or the restaurant that served me undercooked pork that I didn't eat because it COULD have given me worms.  Or the person with a loose board in their fence and a big scary dog in the backyard, because the dog COULD have gotten out and attacked me.

zantster

I'm not sure if you already said you would do this.  But if you take the 1/4 refund and go ahead and post the bad reviews make sure you include those photos if you can.  They're worth a thousand words as the old saying goes.

nextrightthing

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_dance-floor-injury-possible-lawsuit-wwyd-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:b51869db-9e22-4c0e-8092-a3b5f7d0af8ePost:5e26e8f4-00f6-46a2-8181-19d302e8e0a9">Re: Dance floor injury & possible lawsuit - WWYD? (long)</a>:
[QUOTE]You don't need a lawyer to go to small claims court.  To me it sounds like they promised one thing (30 inch panels) and brought something else (36 inch, which look crappy and have gaps).  They can argue in defense that it is an artistic decision, but the photos speak for themselves.  You have been damaged - - you paid for something you didn't get.    I don't see the harm in bringing a small claims case against them, aside from the fact that you might lose your time and the filing fee.  You may get them to settle with you prior to the hearing (maybe you could get 50% back instead of 1/4).  Small claims is very loosey-goosey - - you don't need to be Perry Mason to argue your case successfully in small claims.  Bring all the photographic evidence and give it a shot.  Or, take the 1/4 and move on.  Your choice. 
Posted by SD210[/QUOTE]

You don't need a lawyer to go to small claims court, but you should call a lawyer if you are going to pursue legal action.  You may be entitled to more than the amount you paid them, depending on what laws your state has on consumer protection issues.  In my state, you could sue for three times the amount of damages.  And maybe even win.

Your post asks WWYD, and that's what I would do.  Contact a lawyer.  Most give a free consultation before you have to agree to retain them.

NOLAbridealmost

YOU DID SUFFER DAMAGES!! When you pay X amount for a performance and the performance is defective, that's a damage!  You're entitled to part of what you spent on the contract to put you in the position you'd be in before the contract was made and they breached. I'd take it to small claims. Absolutely.  

NOLAbridealmost

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_dance-floor-injury-possible-lawsuit-wwyd-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:b51869db-9e22-4c0e-8092-a3b5f7d0af8ePost:8a606592-085e-429b-9da9-980b19649538">Re: Dance floor injury & possible lawsuit - WWYD? (long)</a>:
[QUOTE]Ali, of course you can't sue for what COULD have happened.  FFS, then I could sue the car that cut me off because it COULD have caused an accident.  Or the restaurant that served me undercooked pork that I didn't eat because it COULD have given me worms.  Or the person with a loose board in their fence and a big scary dog in the backyard, because the dog COULD have gotten out and attacked me.
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]

<div>The fact that someone <em>could</em> have been hurt isn't the point.  The point is that the company failed to perform according to the contract because the floor was substandard, the floor was not what was agreed upon, the floor looked like shizit, and--just <em>in case</em> the judge needs even more convincing that the floor that was provided sucked--the floor actually <em>did</em> hurt someone and easily could have hurt others because of the huge gaps.  </div><div>
</div><div>Of course the OP can't sue over speculative accidents that haven't happened; but the floor's unsafe condition and gross deviation from what was promised appearance-wise paired with the fact that the floor's design actually DID hurt someone is more than enough grounds to sue for breach of contract.   This is just my opinion; not legal advice.</div>

hoffse

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_dance-floor-injury-possible-lawsuit-wwyd-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:b51869db-9e22-4c0e-8092-a3b5f7d0af8ePost:b448ad42-3bc3-4cb7-b950-bedc44e33cff">Re: Dance floor injury & possible lawsuit - WWYD? (long)</a>:
[QUOTE]I know very little about lawsuits and contracts and such. I always make sure anything that's verbally agreed upon makes its way into a written contract, but that's about it. So everything I say here is probably moot, but I'm genuinely curious. I know everyone is saying that she can't sue on behalf of the woman with the injured toe. But is there anything in the fact that someone could have been seriously injured? Looking at the picture OP posted, I'm surprised there weren't people tripping and falling all night. Any woman in spiky heels could easily have gotten the heel caught in there and twisted or even broken an ankle. I've read several horror stories in the news of dance floors falling apart and people being hurt. I guess you can't sue for what could have happened? But it does seem extremely <strong>careless and negligent </strong>on the vendor's part. There's also the fact that what she got clearly and obviously does not look like what they agreed on. I get that she signed a contract without a detailed description of the floor, but if all she saw was what the vendor showed her and she said she wanted that, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect exactly that, not a half-assed interpretation of it. I personally would still opt to take the money they're offering and leave bad reviews, but I don't think she has NO case whatsoever if she wanted to take this further. But again, I'm far from an expert.
Posted by Ali092011[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>Negligence has a legal definition (even though we use it in lay terms) that basically requires proof of causation of an injury to a particular person, and the only person who can sue on it is the person who was injured.  "Negligence" hasn't been completed until you can show that a particular person did something careless which caused (both actually and foreseeably) an injury to somebody else.  That's why you don't get sued every time you change lanes without signaling.  Unless it causes an accident, you have no injury.  Here we have an injury, but we can't prove causation.</div><div>
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J&K10910

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_dance-floor-injury-possible-lawsuit-wwyd-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:b51869db-9e22-4c0e-8092-a3b5f7d0af8ePost:2c1eef41-6096-4a78-b148-723851039c41">Re: Dance floor injury & possible lawsuit - WWYD? (long)</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dance floor injury & possible lawsuit - WWYD? (long) : The fact that someone could  have been hurt isn't the point.  The point is that the company failed to perform according to the contract because the floor was substandard, the floor was not what was agreed upon, the floor looked like shizit, and--just in case  the judge needs even more convincing that the floor that was provided sucked--the floor actually did  hurt someone and easily could have hurt others because of the huge gaps.   Of course the OP can't sue over speculative accidents that haven't happened; but the floor's unsafe condition and gross deviation from what was promised appearance-wise paired with the fact that the floor's design actually DID hurt someone is more than enough grounds to sue for breach of contract.   This is just my opinion; not legal advice.
Posted by NOLAbridealmost[/QUOTE]

I didn't say it was the point.  I was responding only to Ali's comment on suing based on what COULD have happened.  Relax a bit.

hoffse

Honestly I would bet it depends on the judge you get.  Personally, I'm not litigious (I did not go the litigation route professionally, and I'm much happier for it), and it wouldn't be worth the time or filing fee to me when they are offering 1/4 back.

But I'm not you.  If you get a judge who is indignant on your behalf, you'll probably do very well there.  But you might get one who thinks that you took a risk by not getting everything in writing.  Honestly, the contract is not a very good one, which tells me that you weren't negotiating with a sophisticated party.  Being totally objective, that makes me a little less sympathetic - it's not like you were "negotiating" a lease with a commercial landlord or something who has a 35 page contract that you are sort of strong-armed into initialling, KWIM?  PP is correct there isn't an integration clause, so that plays in your favor.  But overall, it seems like something you could have modified if you had asked.  

If I were a judge (that would be cool) I probably would be ambivalent on this one.  The fact of the matter is that it's over, they basically offered to settle, and if you go to small claims it means you didn't take it.  But I mean, you definitely got shafted, and I recognize that.  Still though - it's not like one of those (very common) situations where you loaned somebody money and are waiting to be paid back or where you're suffering an ongoing injury.  It's done.  I would ultimately just move on.

And yeah what they said - this isn't legal advice either.  It's just my opinion.

e33012837

Thanks again, everyone. I've put the question out on a couple of legal boards and plan to make a final decision with my husband on how to proceed shortly. I will keep you guys posted on how it turns out. If we do decide to take it to court, our focus would definitely be different than how I originally posed the question, so I really appreciate the discussion.

Ali092011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_dance-floor-injury-possible-lawsuit-wwyd-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:b51869db-9e22-4c0e-8092-a3b5f7d0af8ePost:8a606592-085e-429b-9da9-980b19649538">Re: Dance floor injury & possible lawsuit - WWYD? (long)</a>:
[QUOTE]Ali, of course you can't sue for what COULD have happened.  FFS, then I could sue the car that cut me off because it COULD have caused an accident.  Or the restaurant that served me undercooked pork that I didn't eat because it COULD have given me worms.  Or the person with a loose board in their fence and a big scary dog in the backyard, because the dog COULD have gotten out and attacked me.
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]

Very true. That makes sense. I was thinking about the fact that someone <em>was</em> hurt, and even though it wasn't bad and didn't require hospitalization, there was blood and the injury was documented. Going from there, I was just thinking OP should be entitled to a full refund because she didn't get what she paid for <em>and</em> this vendor put others at risk with a substandard dance floor. Again, you're absolutely right, she can't sue because someone <em>could have </em>been seriously injured, but I'd say that company is damn lucky that no one was. I think they should recognize this and give the OP her money back.

NOLAbridealmost

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_dance-floor-injury-possible-lawsuit-wwyd-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:b51869db-9e22-4c0e-8092-a3b5f7d0af8ePost:e7d3cf11-2ca3-409d-a75d-0a20f54467ed">Re: Dance floor injury & possible lawsuit - WWYD? (long)</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dance floor injury & possible lawsuit - WWYD? (long) : Negligence has a legal definition (even though we use it in lay terms) that basically requires proof of causation of an injury to a particular person, and the only person who can sue on it is the person who was injured.  "Negligence" hasn't been completed until you can show that a particular person did something careless which caused (both actually and foreseeably) an injury to somebody else.  That's why you don't get sued every time you change lanes without signaling.  Unless it causes an accident, you have no injury.  Here we have an injury, but we can't prove causation.<div>Posted by hoffse[/QUOTE]

</div><div>Negligence and breach of contract are two completely different causes of action.  The OP would want to go to small claims over breach of contract.  The injured guest would sue alleging negligence. </div>

reppunzel

It's been said in PP, but I would definitely recommend consulting an attorney (in person, not just online) with all your photos and a hard copy of the contract and any emails exchanged before making a decision about pursuing or not pursuing legal action (such as small claims court).  You don't need an attorney to go to small claims court, but getting a solid legal opinion from someone in your state who knows the laws and can look at the whole picture will be an  invaluable help to you and your H in making all these decisions (yes/no to court, yes/no to accepting the 1/4, filing reviews, contacting the BBB, etc.). 

The family friend you mentioned sounds like a good idea, especially since he was there -- if you don't want to impose, offer/insist on paying his consultation fee.  Many attorneys don't charge for the initial consultation, or have a small fee ($50 around here).