Half Rant/Half What Do I Do With This?! MOH Issue

christi.mayo

Excuse the lengthy story...

Parents hosted an engagement party for FI and me weekend before last, and it got pretty crazy. Let's just say...my parents know how to have fun and all FI's groomsemen are former frat boys...Let the drinking games/keg stands ensue (and yes my parents participated - don't judge).

And despite the fact that the party did get a little crazy towards the end of the night, I'm still not sure I can justify the way my MOH acted. 

She spent a couple hours of the party chain smoking in the field where the cars were being parked. She thought this was appropriate since my family is heavily involved with an organization that treats cancer and she didn't want to offend anyone. When the night really started going, she ended up skinny dipping in my parents pool in front of my boss.

 When I started to clean up around the pool area (by myself), I had had enough and finally confronted her regarding her lack of respect for me/my FI/my parents. Instead of just chipping in to help clean up, and apologizing, she yelled at me saying I was acting like I was "better than everyone". And stormed off, getting another friend to drive her drunk, and convincing two of the out-of-town groomsmen to go with her, leaving me to have to explain to my parents where these people went the next morning after they were supposed to stay the night. Later, I found out they had left my parents house to go to a random guys apartment to continue partying.

This obviously sounds like a horror story, and I was plenty angry when it happened (and the morning after). It was hugely disrespectful to everyone involved, and overall really disappointing and embarrassing. The question is... now that some of the initial anger has worn off, what do I do? 

Do I demote her to just being a bridesmaid, do I ask her not to be in the wedding party, do I have a conversation about how it can never happen again and give her a second chance? She is still my best friend, and I have forgiven her, I'm just not sure I can risk that embarrassment happening again...maybe next time at my wedding. 

She has already apologized - and I do believe it is sincere, but I am not sure what will feel worse - feeling guilty for not giving her a second chance, or feeling mortified if it happens again and/or feeling nervous the entire time that I can't count on my MOH. 

button6004

Unless you want to end the friendship, dont demote her or kick her out.  I dont get how this was a horror story, though.  It just sounds like you had a party that people had a really, really good time at...

christi.mayo

cfaszews: If she were a smoker, I would say, fine, please do have a cigarette away from the party. But she's not...only when she drinks too much. And if she wanted to have one way from the party, that's also fine.

But I shouldn't have to worry where my MOH is for half the party because she's out chainsmoking for an hour at a time in the parking lot. 

button6004

Also, I cant help but find it ironic that you dont want us to judge your parents for doing keg stands but you have no problem judging your MOH for smoking/also behaving a little on the wild side.

AllAboutTheBenjamin

I'm curious, why do you think demoting her from MOH to bridesmaid would prevent any crazy shenanigans from happening again?  To me it sounds like you'd just be asking for it.

midgetthemighty

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_half-ranthalf-what-do-i-do-with-this-moh-issue?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:bb4ca809-9245-496d-8f04-6a2a22ea83caPost:23c554cf-383e-4f65-a0f8-d2140b8ccf0a">Re: Half Rant/Half What Do I Do With This?! MOH Issue</a>:
[QUOTE]Unless you want to end the friendship, dont demote her or kick her out.  I<strong>dont get how this was a horror story, though.  It just sounds like you had a party that people had a really, really good time at...
</strong>Posted by button6004[/QUOTE]

Ditto on all of this but I was thinking the same thing as the bolded.

Smoking away from your family sounds pretty respectful to me.

Skinny dipping isn't something I would personally do but if I was at a crazy party, I would almost expect that someone would. Your BFF doing this in front of your boss is a moot point to me unless she also works with you. I can see being a little embarrassed that your boss saw a friend of yours skinny dipping but nothing beyond that.

Please do not demote her or kick her out. She apologized and is most likely sincere. She's your best friend so my guess is you can tell if she's being sincere or not.

ETA - Kicking her out is not an option unless you want to end the friendship. Her sincerity has nothing to do with whether or not you should kick her out. Just to clarify.

christi.mayo

Like I said...it was more of the issue of her disappearing for an hour at a time. I don't judge the fact that she was smoking.

The consideration of moving her from MOH to bridesmaid is to not prevent her from doing something like this again (although I hope it would deter her). The consideration would be because I want to have a MOH I can actually count on. I can't imagine having a MOH who would disappear for an hour at a time on my wedding day...

midgetthemighty

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_half-ranthalf-what-do-i-do-with-this-moh-issue?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:bb4ca809-9245-496d-8f04-6a2a22ea83caPost:0a3cfd91-8252-41c5-9bcc-f302bedb9201">Re: Half Rant/Half What Do I Do With This?! MOH Issue</a>:
[QUOTE]cfaszews: If she were a smoker, I would say, fine, please do have a cigarette away from the party. But she's not...only when she drinks too much. And if she wanted to have one way from the party, that's also fine. But I shouldn't have to worry where my MOH is for half the party because she's out chainsmoking for an hour at a time in the parking lot. 
Posted by christi.mayo[/QUOTE]

Clearly, she is a smoker. Just a social smoker.

You're overthinking this whole thing. Just breathe and move on. :)

tpender13

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_half-ranthalf-what-do-i-do-with-this-moh-issue?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:bb4ca809-9245-496d-8f04-6a2a22ea83caPost:638faace-e4aa-4b07-9e3a-32a47db055ef">Re: Half Rant/Half What Do I Do With This?! MOH Issue</a>:
[QUOTE]Also, I cant help but find it ironic that you dont want us to judge your parents for doing keg stands but you have no problem judging your MOH for smoking/also behaving a little on the wild side.
Posted by button6004[/QUOTE]

This!!!

simplestlife

I don't judge the huge party, the keg stand, or the drinking games. But if these things are already allowed, I can understand how someone who is already inebriated might not have the best judgement about appropriate versus inappropriate. 

Sounds like it was one heck of a party (which is awesome), but it also sounds like a place where skinny dipping wouldn't have been totally out of place. You know your friends and family, so it's understandable that you have a much clearer idea of what is "okay", but you can't really blame your MOH for not knowing this and taking it a little too far.

Just be clear about what you expect from her for the wedding and everything should be fine.

ElleB87

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_half-ranthalf-what-do-i-do-with-this-moh-issue?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:bb4ca809-9245-496d-8f04-6a2a22ea83caPost:0a3cfd91-8252-41c5-9bcc-f302bedb9201">Re: Half Rant/Half What Do I Do With This?! MOH Issue</a>:
[QUOTE]cfaszews: If she were a smoker, I would say, fine, please do have a cigarette away from the party. But she's not...only when she drinks too much. And if she wanted to have one way from the party, that's also fine. But I shouldn't have to worry where my MOH is for half the party because she's out chainsmoking for an hour at a time in the parking lot. 
Posted by christi.mayo[/QUOTE]

You don't get to dictate how often she can smoke. She's a grown woman who was in fact being very considerate of you and your family.  It's also none of your business how much she drinks (unless she's planning on driving).

Also, I'm assuming since you've been around your family all your life you knew well in advance how they act when they drink - and same goes for your friends - why would you then invite your boss to this party? You were asking for trouble.

If you do demote her you will definitely end the friendship. Although maybe it would be for the better because you seem to judge her an awful lot. It's none of your business what she did after your shindig and it's rude to demand that your guests help you clean up. She was invited as a guest and should have been treated as a guest.

ahhhitsshannyn

You say she was your best friend right? Is this her normal behavior? I mean I cannot judge someone for smoking or skinny dipping at an obvious keg stand/frat boy kind of party, but if this is completely out of left field I would make sure she is okay.

One of my really great friends got divorced a few months before my wedding, and both her and her ex were at my wedding. She got more drunk than usual, but I obviously knew that it was because she was hurting. Maybe there is something going on in your friends life right now.

Also, if she disappears for an hour of your reception, there is not really anything you can do about it. At that point, she is just a guest at a party, there is not really any "duties" of the bridesmaids during the reception, so let her do her thing.

christi.mayo

A couple things to address:

Button and tpender...I'm not sure that you're using ironic correctly. Very commonly misused word. It's just, if you're going to be snarky with me, you should at least know what you're saying.

@edielaura...No I don't expect her to follow me around, and I certainly don't want to "leash" her, as you might suggest. But it's my understanding that a Maid of Honor might take on some extra responsiblities...otherwise, what is the point of making a distinction between Maid of Honor and bridesmaid?

button6004

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_half-ranthalf-what-do-i-do-with-this-moh-issue?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:bb4ca809-9245-496d-8f04-6a2a22ea83caPost:4d52adb0-ef44-4bbd-b1d3-a32d7f3de68b">Re: Half Rant/Half What Do I Do With This?! MOH Issue</a>:
[QUOTE]A couple things to address:<strong> Button and tpender...I'm not sure that you're using ironic correctly. Very commonly misused word. It's just, if you're going to be snarky with me, you should at least know what you're saying.</strong> @edielaura...No I don't expect her to follow me around, and I certainly don't want to "leash" her, as you might suggest. But it's my understanding that a Maid of Honor might take on some extra responsiblities...otherwise, what is the point of making a distinction between Maid of Honor and bridesmaid?
Posted by christi.mayo[/QUOTE]

Are you serious? 

MrsL2014

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_half-ranthalf-what-do-i-do-with-this-moh-issue?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:bb4ca809-9245-496d-8f04-6a2a22ea83caPost:3e70e657-dccb-4edd-9c45-ae9fe3052e71">Half Rant/Half What Do I Do With This?! MOH Issue</a>:
[QUOTE]Excuse the lengthy story... Parents hosted an engagement party for FI and me weekend before last, and it got pretty crazy. Let's just say...my parents know how to have fun and all FI's groomsemen are former frat boys...Let the drinking games/keg stands ensue (and yes my parents participated - don't judge). And despite the fact that the party did get a little crazy towards the end of the night, I'm still not sure I can justify the way my MOH acted.  <strong>She spent a couple hours of the party chain smoking in the field where the cars were being parked. She thought this was appropriate since my family is heavily involved with an organization that treats cancer and she didn't want to offend anyone. </strong>When the night really started going, <strong>she ended up skinny dipping in my parents pool in front of my boss</strong>.  When I started to clean up around the pool area (by myself), I had had enough and finally confronted her regarding her lack of respect for me/my FI/my parents. Instead of just chipping in to help clean up, and apologizing, she yelled at me saying I was acting like I was "better than everyone". And stormed off, <strong>getting another friend to drive her drunk, and convincing two of the out-of-town groomsmen to go with her, leaving me to have to explain to my parents where these people went the next morning after they were supposed to stay the night.</strong>Later, I found out they had left my parents house to go to a random guys apartment to continue partying. This obviously sounds like a horror story, and I was plenty angry when it happened (and the morning after). It was hugely disrespectful to everyone involved, and overall really disappointing and embarrassing. The question is... now that some of the initial anger has worn off, what do I do?  Do I demote her to just being a bridesmaid, do I ask her not to be in the wedding party, do I have a conversation about how it can never happen again and give her a second chance? She is still my best friend, and I have forgiven her, I'm just not sure I can risk that embarrassment happening again...maybe next time at my wedding.  She has already apologized - and I do believe it is sincere, but I am not sure what will feel worse - feeling guilty for not giving her a second chance, or feeling mortified if it happens again and/or feeling nervous the entire time that I can't count on my MOH. 
Posted by christi.mayo[/QUOTE]

The only thing of the 3 things I bolded that I found inappropriate is the skinny dipping. Honestly I would prefer her to be away smoking then right up in my face, I cant stand the smell of smoke and she was doing it so she didnt offend your parents. How is this wrong of her? As for the last thing I bolded, are you upset at the fact that she made an adult decision to not drive drunk and asked someone to give her a ride? Oh and also are you upset about how you had to explain to your parents how an adult decided to go party more instead of sleeping over?

I think you are over reacting a bit, do what you want, but if you are going to kick her out just remember it looks bad on your part and you will most likely loose a friend.

ahhhitsshannyn

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_half-ranthalf-what-do-i-do-with-this-moh-issue?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:bb4ca809-9245-496d-8f04-6a2a22ea83caPost:4d52adb0-ef44-4bbd-b1d3-a32d7f3de68b">Re: Half Rant/Half What Do I Do With This?! MOH Issue</a>:
[QUOTE]A couple things to address: Button and tpender...I'm not sure that you're using ironic correctly. Very commonly misused word. It's just, if you're going to be snarky with me, you should at least know what you're saying. @edielaura...No I don't expect her to follow me around, and I certainly don't want to "leash" her, as you might suggest. But it's my understanding that a Maid of Honor might take on some extra responsiblities...<strong>otherwise, what is the point of making a distinction between Maid of Honor and bridesmaid?
</strong>Posted by christi.mayo[/QUOTE]

To honor her.

andrea2473

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_half-ranthalf-what-do-i-do-with-this-moh-issue?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:bb4ca809-9245-496d-8f04-6a2a22ea83caPost:4d52adb0-ef44-4bbd-b1d3-a32d7f3de68b">Re: Half Rant/Half What Do I Do With This?! MOH Issue</a>:
[QUOTE]A couple things to address: Button and tpender...I'm not sure that you're using ironic correctly. Very commonly misused word. It's just, if you're going to be snarky with me, you should at least know what you're saying. @edielaura...No I don't expect her to follow me around, and I certainly don't want to "leash" her, as you might suggest. But it's my understanding that a Maid of Honor might take on some extra responsiblities...<strong>otherwise, what is the point of making a distinction between Maid of Honor and bridesmaid?</strong>
Posted by christi.mayo[/QUOTE]

Because you are closest with that person and you want to honor them.   Honoring them with extra duties???  No.  They hold your flowers, fix your train, maybe make a speech or sign the license.  That's it for the extras.

midgetthemighty

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_half-ranthalf-what-do-i-do-with-this-moh-issue?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:bb4ca809-9245-496d-8f04-6a2a22ea83caPost:4d52adb0-ef44-4bbd-b1d3-a32d7f3de68b">Re: Half Rant/Half What Do I Do With This?! MOH Issue</a>:
[QUOTE]A couple things to address: Button and tpender...I'm not sure that you're using ironic correctly. Very commonly misused word. It's just, if you're going to be snarky with me, you should at least know what you're saying. @edielaura...No I don't expect her to follow me around, and I certainly don't want to "leash" her, as you might suggest. But it's my understanding that a Maid of Honor might take on some extra responsiblities...<strong>otherwise, what is the point of making a distinction between Maid of Honor and bridesmaid?
</strong>Posted by christi.mayo[/QUOTE]

That person is supposed to be your best friend, that's why. No other duties whatsoever.

They can <em>choose</em> to make a toast to you and your new husband.
They can <em>choose</em> to help you go to the bathroom in your huge dress.
They can <em>choose </em>to do all kinds of things to help you out but those are her decisions to make. Anyone else can choose to do those things too.

AllAboutTheBenjamin

FFS.

Habs2Hart

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_half-ranthalf-what-do-i-do-with-this-moh-issue?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:bb4ca809-9245-496d-8f04-6a2a22ea83caPost:abb631e4-8db2-43af-8c76-a29c53cef0c8">Re: Half Rant/Half What Do I Do With This?! MOH Issue</a>:
[QUOTE]FFS.
Posted by AllAboutTheBenjamin[/QUOTE]

This. 

wrigleyville

MOH means she stands next to you during the ceremony and signs the marriage license (although, sometimes a BM signs the license). It's a position of honor, hence the name. It doesn't mean she's your lady in waiting at all pre-parties and the wedding.

She disappeared for an hour. Get over it. It's a big, wild party, so of course people are going to be all over the place. Additionally, she didn't want to smoke near your family, so I think it's a GOOD thing she "disappeared" for an hour. She did the respectful thing in that instance.

christi.mayo

I honestly believe that most of you are trying to help by offering your honest opinions - but I also believe that some of the responses on here are more than a little tactless.

Most of you are already married or close to it. If you think back, I wonder if you can't remember a time when you expected a little more from your Maid of Honor than you expected from other bridesmaids. Maybe it was expecting her to write down gifts at your bridal shower, or maybe it was hoping she would hold back your hair at your bachelorette party. 

Whatever the case may be, yes the MOH role was created to honor your best friend, but wouldn't you hope your best friend would also honor you and respect you during these times? I don't think that's bratty/inconsiderate/crazy. Yes, it's absolutely a choice for her to do or not do these things, but I would choose to do them for her, and due to the nature of our friendship, I would hope she would for me as well. 

I am always amazed when I come on here that the women on these boards quickly forget their own wedding woes. I'm sure your planning wasn't always smooth sailing, and I wonder if during your times of need you would be happy to accept someone calling you a brat. I'm not easily offended, and I've been on here enough times to get how it works, but I'm still always surprised when women resort to name-calling just because they have to add their 2 cents. 

For the people who said just breathe and move on, or maybe check and see what's going on in her life...I value your opinions. Thanks. 

button6004

Who was tactless or called you names? 

wrigleyville

My MOH gets violently ill when people vomit near her. Guess I'll have to demote her since she can't perform her hair-holding duties.

christi.mayo

@edielaura

I don't plan to throw up, but if I did, it wouldn't be the first bride that's happened to, so don't pretend that it's some ridiculous, disgusting notion. Yes, I said it, no I don't plan on doing it. These were simply examples of what a bride might ask for/expect of a MOH. To be honest, I don't think they're all that uncommon...

christi.mayo

@wrigleyville for goodness sake it was an EXAMPLE. and @edielaura, I admire you for truly sounding like you literally expected nothing of your MOH or bridesmaids, but I'd have to say that you sound like the exception, not the rule. 

Habs2Hart

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_half-ranthalf-what-do-i-do-with-this-moh-issue?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:bb4ca809-9245-496d-8f04-6a2a22ea83caPost:c9c6a449-94e0-4d79-b692-b3ee47b92d21">Re: Half Rant/Half What Do I Do With This?! MOH Issue</a>:
[QUOTE]I honestly believe that most of you are trying to help by offering your honest opinions - but I also believe that some of the responses on here are more than a little tactless. Most of you are already married or close to it. <strong>If you think back, I wonder if you can't remember a time when you expected a little more from your Maid of Honor than you expected from other bridesmaids. Maybe it was expecting her to write down gifts at your bridal shower, or maybe it was hoping she would hold back your hair at your bachelorette party</strong>.  Whatever the case may be, yes the MOH role was created to honor your best friend, but wouldn't you hope your best friend would also honor you and respect you during these times? I don't think that's bratty/inconsiderate/crazy. Yes, it's absolutely a choice for her to do or not do these things, but I would choose to do them for her, and due to the nature of our friendship, I would hope she would for me as well.  I am always amazed when I come on here that the women on these boards quickly forget their own wedding woes. I'm sure your planning wasn't always smooth sailing, and I wonder if during your times of need you would be happy to accept someone calling you a brat. I'm not easily offended, and I've been on here enough times to get how it works, but I'm still always surprised when women resort to name-calling just because they have to add their 2 cents.  For the people who said just breathe and move on, or maybe check and see what's going on in her life...I value your opinions. Thanks. 
Posted by christi.mayo[/QUOTE]

My MOH lived across the country.  She showed up for the rehearsal and for the wedding.  She said a lovely speech, held my flowers, signed the paperwork and that was that.  She did everything I wanted from her.

The important thing, is that she was there for me, which she was.

Honestly, while she might have gone a bit wild, she certainly wasn't disrespecting you. She actually was respecting you and your parents by not smoking in front of you.  I think you are blowing things out of proportion.  If I was at a party where the hosts (in this case, the parents) were doing keg stands, I wouldn't think that skinny dipping is out of the question in terms of appropriateness. 

Trust her to behave appropriate for the wedding.  She's been your best friend for a long time.  Just relax and trust her. 

ahhhitsshannyn

I didn't even have a bridal party, at all, so there is no need to expect anything from anyone, since you are an adult and can do it all on your own. Really, it's not all that serious.

You will only get all consumed in your wedding woes if you let it consume you. Seriously just breathe, your friend has apologized, and try to just go with the flow. Things might not go your way, and hell things even might go just completely wrong, but it's only going to devastate you if you are looking at the wrong picture. Remember, the wedding, engagement parties, showers, they are all to celebrate getting married. At the end of the day that really is the only important part.

AceTT

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_half-ranthalf-what-do-i-do-with-this-moh-issue?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:bb4ca809-9245-496d-8f04-6a2a22ea83caPost:9c6c8bf7-6b74-444a-9401-a9f69c1a2528">Re: Half Rant/Half What Do I Do With This?! MOH Issue</a>:
[QUOTE]Like I said...it was more of the issue of her disappearing for an hour at a time. I don't judge the fact that she was smoking. The consideration of moving her from MOH to bridesmaid is to not prevent her from doing something like this again (although I hope it would deter her). <strong>The consideration would be because I want to have a MOH I can actually count on. I can't imagine having a MOH who would disappear for an hour at a time on my wedding day...</strong>
Posted by christi.mayo[/QUOTE]
One of my BMs was six months pregnant, had a bad sinus infection, and wasn't feeling well all day. She left my wedding at 10 even though it went until 11:30 p.m. I survived just fine. So will you.

andrea2473

OP, you're overthinking this.   MOH=friend.   She will likely help you out because she is your friend.   If a friend of mine threw a huge drinking party and then used my actions at the party as a reason not to have me be a MOH, then I wouldn't go at all.   So your parents were doing keg stands?  Maybe you shouldn't invite them either because they might do keg stands at your wedding since we all act exactly the same at every, single function we attend.

ahhhitsshannyn

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_half-ranthalf-what-do-i-do-with-this-moh-issue?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:bb4ca809-9245-496d-8f04-6a2a22ea83caPost:88d554a0-2d76-4693-9715-823a56b06395">Re: Half Rant/Half What Do I Do With This?! MOH Issue</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Half Rant/Half What Do I Do With This?! MOH Issue : I would think someone who is ready to get married would know how to hold her liquor at a bachelorette party.  It's to have a good time, not get shitfaced drunk.
Posted by edielaura[/QUOTE]

Seriously Edie you are just being dense here. You have to know that many girls get shitfaced drunk on their B-party. And people talk about being hungover all the time in the morning threads, so really, you are just trying to start a fight.