Wedding Etiquette Forum

2010 Census

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Re: 2010 Census

  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_2010-census?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:c80fb97e-0846-49dd-bd95-ef0d7adab427Post:0525b082-c8ae-4bff-8c6e-eebd9045c26e">Re: 2010 Census</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2010 Census : oh absolutely. <strong>On another note, can any one tell me what the penalties are for not filling it out?</strong> I tried goggling and it is one big mess. Also, wondering how the government handles if illegals fill this out and then the INS backtracks the record? This is messy.
    Posted by MeaghanandMichael[/QUOTE]

    *Points at earlier C&P text from census FAQ*
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_2010-census?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:c80fb97e-0846-49dd-bd95-ef0d7adab427Post:fe420719-a15e-464f-90f0-b94923c3fe0b">Re: 2010 Census</a>:
    [QUOTE]Like Tracy said, in a federal republic you need SOME kind of top-down approach. That's the whole point of our type of government. Federal government has x dollars. Massachusetts has x people, including x people under the age of 18 and x people over the age of 65. Therefore, they get x dollars. Massachusetts then decides, based on who lives where, how the money gets distributed. What the state keeps, what counties get, etc.<strong> Community based is great, but the spending power of a community vs. that of the federal government is a drop in the ocean.</strong>
    Posted by msmerymac[/QUOTE]


    ah yes, hence my reference to my utopian ideals as opposed to what is feasible and doable....

    Trace -  We had a town in my state that had a huge racial divide They got a BRAND NEW highschool, full of the latest technology paid for by the federal government. Every penny. My home town, which is mostly  middle class, white and some upper middle class have been struggling to raise funds for a new high-school since 1957. Yeah, thats right, 50 years. The other towns original high-school was built in 1983, so we are obviously much behind the times. My community has tried many times to pass proposition 2.5 which mean we raise taxes enough to pay for the new school. Well, it finally passed because the town people agreed it was time for a new high-school. However, the other town did not have to raise taxes and just got a handout. It bothers me that the federal government can sweepingly decide one town gets something over another without really looking into all the facts. I am guessing the hand out (up) was based on socio economic census data rather than a legitimate 50 year struggle of a middle class town to prioritize education. I get nothing is easy, but the government does not have the time (nor do I concede the bureaucracy to truly understand each towns predicament). If anything, census data should be broader, not narrower, if you are going to hand out money like it is candy.
  • That doesn't change the fact that democracy doesn't work without a census. Clearly stuff isn't fair and they do make wrong decisions based on things like socioeconomic status, but I'd still rather deal with this than the alternative, which would be no representation at all in the government.
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_2010-census?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:c80fb97e-0846-49dd-bd95-ef0d7adab427Post:fb0eacfb-8bac-4587-8960-c7904c090fd1">Re: 2010 Census</a>:
    [QUOTE]That doesn't change the fact that democracy doesn't work without a census. Clearly stuff isn't fair and they do make wrong decisions based on things like socioeconomic status, but I'd still rather deal with this than the alternative, which would be no representation at all in the government.
    Posted by tlv204[/QUOTE]
    I know! Which is why I am FOR the census. I just am throwing around ideas, playing devil's advocate.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_2010-census?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:c80fb97e-0846-49dd-bd95-ef0d7adab427Post:77f809af-787c-41f5-8860-b32c1ddc897f">Re: 2010 Census</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2010 Census : <strong>]We had a town in my state that had a huge racial divide They got a BRAND NEW highschool, full of the latest technology paid for by the federal government. Every penny. My home town, which is mostly  middle class, white and some upper middle class have been struggling to raise funds for a new high-school since 1957. Yeah, thats right, 50 years.</strong>
    Posted by MeaghanandMichael[/QUOTE]

    But there are reasons that some areas get the school and that some don't. The high school that I went to was built in the 1950s and I was from a community where the local industry brought in lots of money (oil) but due to things like The Robin Hood law, our money would pay for schools in areas that didn't have money.

    For the record, I skipped over most of this conversation. It's likely out of context. I jsut saw that part and wanted to point that out.
  • And in my hometown, the rich white kids on the north side got a new high school while all the lower income kids had to go to the pit of high school that had been there since the beginning of time.

    Oh, and the original high school had once a upon a time been the bee's knees and was right in the middle of the white neighborhoods.  Where did the poor (and probalby non-white students) go?  A makeshift school across the river.  My point?  Maybe there was more to these kids getting a nice high school than a high population of "minority" students. 
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  • I know, I just like arguing :) I'm not usually a very political person other than equality issues, but I just honestly don't understand what anyone could see negative about the census. Sorry I singled you out :)
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  • I would hope there is more to it than that Bailey! As I said, this is my experience, not an end all be all.
  • tracy_ktracy_k member
    First Anniversary First Comment
    edited March 2010
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_2010-census?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:c80fb97e-0846-49dd-bd95-ef0d7adab427Post:77f809af-787c-41f5-8860-b32c1ddc897f">Re: 2010 Census</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2010 Census : Trace -  We had a town in my state that had a huge racial divide They got a BRAND NEW highschool, full of the latest technology paid for by the federal government. Every penny. My home town, which is mostly  middle class, white and some upper middle class have been struggling to raise funds for a new high-school since 1957. <em>... snip... </em> It bothers me that the federal government can sweepingly decide one town gets something over another without really looking into all the facts.[/QUOTE]

    The federal government does not give out money to individual towns within states. They give money to the states, and the states apportion the money to the various localities.

    It sucks that your town doesn't have the money for a new school, but that has nothing to do with the federal government or the census.

    [QUOTE]I am guessing the hand out (up) was based on socio economic census data rather than a legitimate 50 year struggle of a middle class town to prioritize education. I get nothing is easy, but the government does not have the time (nor do I concede the bureaucracy to truly understand each towns predicament). If anything, census data should be broader, not narrower, if you are going to hand out money like it is candy.
    Posted by MeaghanandMichael[/QUOTE]

    Census data is just about the BROADEST POSSIBLE DATA collected. There is no "socio economic census data," it is literally<strong> how many people live in your house</strong> and <strong>what race they are</strong>. That is it.

    Edited to add this from the Census website:
    <em>The 2010 questionnaire is one of the shortest in history, and comes very close to the length and scope of inquiries asked in 1790. Everyone in the household answers seven questions: name, gender, race, ethnicity, and whether they sometimes live somewhere else. The head of household answers how many people live in the residence, whether it is a house, apartment, or mobile home, and provides a telephone number for Census workers to follow up if any information is incomplete or missing. </em>
  • No worries TLV, I am happy to discuss my exepience, and just play devil's advocate :)
  • I wish they asked for income numbers.  We need to show some national chains that we can support their business model in my neighborhood!
    Bi-oh-rama
    Now with more wedded bliss.


    I don't get married often, but when I do, I do it in Las Vegas.

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    "Lvharpy could be your AE." - direy25
    "smokeybailey is the one shining beacon of light in this steaming turd of a thread." - daffodil_jill
    "The almighty smokeybailey has spoken." - some bitch on the Las Vegas board

  • Yes Tracy, but my piint is, the state was blindly following a federal suggestion in this isolated case, I think more investigation is required.
  • Oh, and I guess my mom is working part time as one of those census harassers, now. (She's semi-retired and finds things to do. *shrug*) Anyway, she basically goes to to middle of freaking nowhere and helps people who don't have electricity fill out the census form. She doesn't point a gun at them. They just sit down and write it out.

    Because in my mom's community, those are the people who are under represented. Lots of rural poverty. In my community, it's probably different.
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_2010-census?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:c80fb97e-0846-49dd-bd95-ef0d7adab427Post:77f809af-787c-41f5-8860-b32c1ddc897f">Re: 2010 Census</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2010 Census : ah yes, hence my reference to my utopian ideals as opposed to what is feasible and doable.... Trace -  We had a town in my state that had a huge racial divide They got a BRAND NEW highschool, full of the latest technology paid for by the federal government. Every penny. My home town, which is mostly  middle class, white and some upper middle class have been struggling to raise funds for a new high-school since 1957.  Yeah, thats right, 50 years. The other towns original high-school was built in 1983, so we are obviously much behind the times.  My community has tried many times to pass proposition 2.5 which mean we raise taxes enough to pay for the new school. Well, it finally passed because the town people agreed it was time for a new high-school. However, the other town did not have to raise taxes and just got a handout. <strong>It bothers me that the federal government can sweepingly decide one town gets something over another without really looking into all the facts. I am guessing the hand out (up) was based on socio economic census data rather than a legitimate 50 year struggle of a middle class town to prioritize education. </strong>I get nothing is easy, but the government does not have the time (nor do I concede the bureaucracy to truly understand each towns predicament). If anything, census data should be broader, not narrower, if you are going to hand out money like it is candy.
    Posted by MeaghanandMichael[/QUOTE]<div>
    </div><div>Wait a second.  So the government shouldn't have a say because they aren't "really looking into all the facts".  But you "GUESS" (over <em>any other reason) </em>that it's because your town was white and "hard working" and the other town . . . wasn't?</div><div>
    </div><div>It sounds like you have a bias because you were from that particular town, so this seems like a situation where it would be <em>good</em> for the government to make a decision based on statistics and demographics, and that's what they did.  I'm sorry that their decision benefited other people more than you in that particular instance.</div>
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_2010-census?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:c80fb97e-0846-49dd-bd95-ef0d7adab427Post:66bb002c-a48c-4b96-86e7-4ea621722a3b">Re: 2010 Census</a>:
    [QUOTE]I wish they asked for income numbers.  We need to show some national chains that we can support their business model in my neighborhood!
    Posted by smokeybailey[/QUOTE]

    I think there's both a long form and a short form. We got the short one (sex, race, age, relationships between people in the house). I *think* some people randomly get a long one that asks about income? Can anyone correct me?
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  • well, in that case, send me the long form!
    Bi-oh-rama
    Now with more wedded bliss.


    I don't get married often, but when I do, I do it in Las Vegas.

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    "Lvharpy could be your AE." - direy25
    "smokeybailey is the one shining beacon of light in this steaming turd of a thread." - daffodil_jill
    "The almighty smokeybailey has spoken." - some bitch on the Las Vegas board

  • I know, I kind of wanted that one too! I just like filling things out.
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_2010-census?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:c80fb97e-0846-49dd-bd95-ef0d7adab427Post:7d848e96-d014-4430-bade-b5e85687baac">Re: 2010 Census</a>:
    [QUOTE]Yes Tracy, but my piint is, the state was blindly following a federal suggestion in this isolated case, I think more investigation is required.
    Posted by MeaghanandMichael[/QUOTE]

    I have never in my life heard of an instance where the federal government has made a recommendation to a state on where to build or not build a high school. I'd love to see some kind of backing information on this.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_2010-census?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:c80fb97e-0846-49dd-bd95-ef0d7adab427Post:0ffbd652-626c-4383-a788-0e4f408dcaf7">Re: 2010 Census</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2010 Census : Wait a second.  So the government shouldn't have a say because they aren't "really looking into all the facts".  <strong>But you "GUESS" (over any other reason) that it's because your town was white and "hard working" and the other town . . . wasn't?</strong> It sounds like you have a bias because you were from that particular town, so this seems like a situation where it would be good  for the government to make a decision based on statistics and demographics, and that's what they did.  I'm sorry that their decision benefited other people more than you in that particular instance.
    Posted by Schroeder246[/QUOTE]


    Wait what?
  • Dang, girls, I have to go. This has been an interesting discussion.

  • MyNameIsNotMyNameIsNot member
    First Comment First Anniversary First Answer 5 Love Its
    edited March 2010
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_2010-census?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:c80fb97e-0846-49dd-bd95-ef0d7adab427Post:7d848e96-d014-4430-bade-b5e85687baac">Re: 2010 Census</a>:
    [QUOTE]Yes Tracy, but my piint is, the state was blindly following a federal suggestion in this isolated case, I think more investigation is required.
    Posted by MeaghanandMichael[/QUOTE]

    <div>So then your issue is with how your state decides where to allocate education funds.  It has nothing to do with the federal government.</div><div>
    </div><div>The fed gives money to the state.  The state gives money to the county.  The county funds the local school system.  The local school system (sometimes with state/county interference) decides when and where to build schools.  The federal government has nothing to do with where schools are built.  </div>
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_2010-census?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:c80fb97e-0846-49dd-bd95-ef0d7adab427Post:1029b035-ee5a-4494-8022-1177077df6dc">Re: 2010 Census</a>:
    [QUOTE]Dang, girls, I have to go. This has been an interesting discussion.
    Posted by tracy_k[/QUOTE]


    I am sorry to  hear this because I thought we were having a great discusion until you brought up that I thought this was all about my town being white and hard working which I am pretty sure I didn't mention as a derogative thing, but more a factual thing. In fact, I never mentioned the hard working part, but the white part to be fair in determining what things were drawn from the census.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_2010-census?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:c80fb97e-0846-49dd-bd95-ef0d7adab427Post:621e5cb5-fa9e-4c24-b6a0-fa93a9a202fe">Re: 2010 Census</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2010 Census : So then your issue is with how your state decides where to allocate education funds.  It has nothing to do with the federal government. The fed gives money to the state.  The state gives money to the county.  The county funds the local school system.  The local school system (sometimes with state/county interference) decides when and where to build schools.<strong>  The federal government has nothing to do with where schools are built.  </strong>
    Posted by MyNameIsNot[/QUOTE]


    I might agree if we weren't talking about how census data effects the state mandates. In this case I know it did and it worries me.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_2010-census?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:c80fb97e-0846-49dd-bd95-ef0d7adab427Post:aa732e44-6f07-48c7-b708-bcf6ae76aad9">Re: 2010 Census</a>:
    [QUOTE] to be fair in determining what things were drawn from the census.
    Posted by MeaghanandMichael[/QUOTE]

    Just out of curiosity, how do you know this had anything to do with any census at all? What if there was a private donation? Or a proposition passed specifically for their area? I don't know why they chose to build that school, but I do know that just as often if not more often, the poor areas remain poor with poor/old schools, and the rich remain rich, so I just don't feel like that is representative of how money is usually allocated. I really doubt the national census had anything at all to do with that school.
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  • Sorry I didn't read your post before I posted, but even if in this case census data somehow did determine that school being built, I doubt they did it without reason, and I also really really don't think this is the norm.
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_2010-census?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:c80fb97e-0846-49dd-bd95-ef0d7adab427Post:aa732e44-6f07-48c7-b708-bcf6ae76aad9">Re: 2010 Census</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2010 Census : I am sorry to  hear this because I thought we were having a great discusion until you brought up that I thought this was all about my town being white and hard working which I am pretty sure I didn't mention as a derogative thing, but more a factual thing. In fact, I never mentioned the hard working part, but the white part to be fair in determining what things were drawn from the census.
    Posted by MeaghanandMichael[/QUOTE]<div>
    </div><div>First of all, that was me, not tracy :)</div><div>
    </div><div>Secondly, I didn't mean to insinuate anything, I thought I was taking things quite literally from your post.  And while, no, you didn't use the phrase "hard working", you did use the word "struggle" more than once in regards to your town.  I'm sorry if I paraphrased incorrectly.</div><div>
    </div><div>Thirdly, I'm still confused as to why you are convinced that these actions were brought on by the results of a national census.  As PP have mentioned, <em>states</em> are the ones who allocate funds for public schools.  Furthermore, I'm curious as to where you got your information that racial census demographics were the impetus of the funding allocation.</div><div>
    </div><div>I have to run now, too, but this has certainly been an enjoyable discussion!

    </div>
  • smokeybaileysmokeybailey member
    Combo Breaker First Comment
    edited March 2010
    TLV, It's not the norm.  Very seldom do great new schools get built in poor areas.  Property taxes are used to fund schools in most cases so low property taxes = low funds for school = rich getting smarter and poor struggling more = poor staying poor = living in same neighborhood = raising kids that go to said sh!tty school.

    Bi-oh-rama
    Now with more wedded bliss.


    I don't get married often, but when I do, I do it in Las Vegas.

    image

    "Lvharpy could be your AE." - direy25
    "smokeybailey is the one shining beacon of light in this steaming turd of a thread." - daffodil_jill
    "The almighty smokeybailey has spoken." - some bitch on the Las Vegas board

  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_2010-census?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:c80fb97e-0846-49dd-bd95-ef0d7adab427Post:788c2567-f36a-4e69-9458-a3bf9029dc59">Re: 2010 Census</a>:
    [QUOTE]Sorry I didn't read your post before I posted, but even if in this case census data somehow did determine that school being built, I doubt they did it without reason, and I also really really don't think this is the norm.
    Posted by tlv204[/QUOTE]


    I hope not! Aslo, I am more than happy that they got their school because I am of the thought school that education is the silver bullet. But, I think things need to be investigated. I try to place more trust in the government than that and try to keep abreast of what kinds of things in my area need a speculative eye. I do know that at the convention for town school commitees (that I was at) this specific issue was the white elephant in the room and it was delicately discussed. I wish I could have persued it furthur but I don't live/work in the are any more. I get this is an isolated case with a very random subjective outcome, but I think if we are open to the spirit of discussion it should at least be addressed.
  • Sorry Schro-  thanks for your points!
  • My only problem with the 2010 census is that it asks so few questions. I've been using old censuses to do family research and it's been so great to stumble on family info that I couldn't have found any other way.

    In various years, they've asked all sorts of questions: religion, occupation, where you come from and where each of your parents come from, age at first marriage, number of living children, number of children born, whether or not a citizen, language spoken in the household, if they could speak English, even one decade whether or not the household owned a radio.

    I was really disappointed that the 2010 one asks virtually nothing.
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