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Wedding Etiquette Forum
White Tie or Black Tie
I've always wanted a fancy wedding and I know that white tie and black tie are both formal. I understand that white tie is more formal, but it could also be more expensive for my guests and/or harder for my guests to find things to wear. I'm having my wedding in Michigan, at the ballroom at City Flats Hotel. I'm wearing a ball gown and if I do white tie, do my bridesmaids have to wear long dresses? I'm a very classic and traditional person. I'm not positive this goes in etiquette, so if it doesn't, sorry
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Re: White Tie or Black Tie
Black Tie and White Tie are terms to be taken very seriously when organizing such events. A black tie affair is: live orchastra, plated multi-course meals with full china service, top shelf bar, valet service, etc. It's high end stuff, and involves a ton of $$$$$.
Take that, magnify tenfold to get White Tie. An event of that nature demands formal gowns. It is not a cocktail party, it is a formal affair. Your BMs would look very strange and out of place in short dresses.
Most people do not do white tie events anymore (expcetions are, of course, royal/political balls and other SUPER fancy events). I'm not sure what kind of crowd you hang around with, but this MAY get expensive for your guests as most people don't own a tux with tails or a ballgown/floor length evening dress. And yes, for true white tie your bridesmaids have to be in floor length dresses. I think that a "black tie" wedding would still give you the formal feeling that you crave while allowing for a little breathing room for your guests and wedding party. Your wedding would still be very beautiful if it were black tie. (you also run the risk of none of your guests knowing what "white tie" means, and not dressing properly for it anyway. Again, I don't know your crowd, but it's a possibility!)
You need live band, a DJ for when the live band is on break, multi-course meal, full premium open bar, valet parking, etc for black tie or white tie events.
[QUOTE]I've always wanted a fancy wedding and I know that white tie and black tie are both formal. I understand that white tie is more formal, but it could also be more expensive for my guests and/or harder for my guests to find things to wear. I'm having my wedding in Michigan, at the ballroom at City Flats Hotel. I'm wearing a ball gown and if I do white tie, do my bridesmaids have to wear long dresses? I'm a very classic and traditional person. I'm not positive this goes in etiquette, so if it doesn't, sorry
Posted by ParisianChocolate[/QUOTE]
Black or white tie are very high end events that easily cost $60-90K to put on. An average person doesn't normally have that level of formal attire unless they attend state dinners or balls on a regular basis. White tie would mean your BMs as well as your female guests in formal gowns and a tuxedo for the men. It means a high end bar with top shelf liquor. Gourmet passed appetizers for cocktail hour and a gourmet plated meal. Valet car service as well.
If you have the finances for this type of affair, and your guests wouldn't be off put by having to drop a few hundred bucks on a new gown or tuxedo, then it's fine to do. But, know your guests. If your friends and family are sundress or cocktail dress type folks, then a white/black tie affair may not be their speed.
I would love to go to a white tie affair some day. But, honestly, I wouldn't do it for a wedding unless all of my friends were dignitaries or something. There are plenty of ways to make an event formal and tradntional without it costing you and your guests a small fortune.
ETA: my 60-90K is a low estimate for maybe 100 people and will vary widely by geographic region.
Websites/blogs where our wedding has been featured:
http://www.dapperq.com/2013/11/a-very-dapper-wedding/
http://www.onabicyclebuiltfortwo.com/2013/10/wedding-christina-g.html
http://4realequalityweddings.com/2014/05/16/g-christina/
[QUOTE]If you don't know the difference between white and black tie I don't think you should be having that formal of an event. Like the others have said as little to do with the clothing and everything to do with how you host. You need live band, a DJ for when the live band is on break, multi-course meal, full premium open bar, valet parking, etc for black tie or white tie events.
Posted by lyndausvi[/QUOTE]
This. It doesn't sound like you are prepared to host such an event if you aren't sure what they entail.
“White Tie” is the most formal of all dress codes and it is usually associated with royal affairs and presidential meetings. White Tie affairs will make Black Tie Attire appear casual. In a nutshell, white tie consists of a black or midnight blue tailcoat jacket, a waistcoat, a wing-tip collar dress shirt, and a white bow tie. To learn more on each clothing item pleases read on below."
[QUOTE]OP I think what you are thinking of is what some call black tie optional where men can wear suits or tuxedos and the women wear cocktail dresses or floor lenght gowns. This is not a black tie event even though people use the term black tie in describing it and is just a formal wedding. Even at this type of event I would have the bridal party in floor lenght dresses.
Posted by PrincessBride2016[/QUOTE]
There is no such thing as "black tie optional". Something is either black tie or it isn't. And if it's not, a tux (or "black tie attire" is always optional).
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:White Tie or Black Tie: The only "breathing room" for guests in attire between white tie and black tie is they type of tux and slightly less elaborate full length gowns. BMs and female guests would still need full length gowns, they just wouldn't have to be full out ball gowns.
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]
Yes, but I was thinking it would probably be easier for guests to come across a floor-length dress and a more contemporary tux than it would be for them to get a ball gown and tails. Now, of course, if her crowd isn't formal in the first place, either option would be difficult. If they are, black tie would be the way to go. Of course, you could always go black tie optional. That confuses EVERYONE! (Hehe - I joke!)
[QUOTE]Actually the Inaugural Balls aren't White Tie... they're black tie and actually wouldn't meet TK ettiquette standards (cash bar and all they served was chex mix and cheezits, not joking). Still fun though!
Posted by classyashley918[/QUOTE]
ETA to have an actual question:<div>
<div>Then why are all the pictures including white ties? I don't think people would break out the outfits for cheezits.</div></div>
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:White Tie or Black Tie: My bad, I meant State Dinner. I completely misspoke and I apologize. You are correct.
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]
Haha, no worries, I didn't mean to "call you out" just that the balls aren't what people think. I definitely had the impression that the party would be much more than it was before we went. I can still say I got to go so I guess that's something, but yea, not all it's cracked up to be.
[QUOTE]I think I am having what would be considered the level "Black Tie" (elaborate cocktail hour with musicians, 5 course seated meal, top shelf bar, valet, 10 piece band with brass section). Originally, I wanted to have a "Black Tie" wedding but, unfortunately, it would be an imposition for some guests and after reading this board I decided against it. When people ask about attire I just say whatever they are most comfortable in, cocktail dress or gown. It's totally your call and you know your guests best but I wouldn't want to burden them with purchasing a formal gown or renting a tux. If this is their normal attire then by all means go for it :)!
Posted by NYCBride2013[/QUOTE]
<div>Good for you for having black tie service without requiring the attire! That's awesome. (Can I come to your wedding? It sounds fun, lol)</div>
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: White Tie or Black Tie : Good for you for having black tie service without requiring the attire! That's awesome. (Can I come to your wedding? It sounds fun, lol)
Posted by artbyallie[/QUOTE]
<div>I was thinking the same thing. I've seen at least a few posters want a "black tie" event just so the pictures look nice. Seriously, good for you.</div>
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: White Tie or Black Tie : ETA to have an actual question: Then why are all the pictures including white ties? I don't think people would break out the outfits for cheezits.
Posted by Peledreamsofrain[/QUOTE]
The pictures in this link are rather amusing. You can see people standing in atrocious drink tickets lines in really formal attire.
<a href="http://www.buzzfeed.com/zekejmiller/obama-serves-cheez-itz-at-inaugural-ball" rel="nofollow">http://www.buzzfeed.com/zekejmiller/obama-serves-cheez-itz-at-inaugural-ball</a>
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: White Tie or Black Tie : Good for you for having black tie service without requiring the attire! That's awesome. (Can I come to your wedding? It sounds fun, lol)
Posted by artbyallie[/QUOTE]
Haha! I hope it is fun! Thanks Like I said, I just want guests to be comfortable and it was based on the advice I got here so thank you ladies!!
[QUOTE]I've always wanted a fancy wedding and I know that white tie and black tie are both formal. I understand that white tie is more formal, but it could also be more expensive for my guests and/or harder for my guests to find things to wear. I'm having my wedding in Michigan, at the ballroom at City Flats Hotel. I'm wearing a ball gown and <strong>if I do white tie, do my bridesmaids have to wear long dresses?</strong> I'm a very classic and traditional person. I'm not positive this goes in etiquette, so if it doesn't, sorry
Posted by ParisianChocolate[/QUOTE]
<div>I feel like that right there shows that you do not in fact want a white tie or even black tie wedding. If you're guests are expected to follow certain dress codes, why would your bridal party be exempt? </div>
Everyone has covered the fact that you will need 5 star food, band, valet and a full top shelf bar. But you will also need to consider your paper. Invites (with calligraphy, inner envelopes, etc) STDs, menu cards, programs, place cards etc. And I would except the flowers to be rather impressive.
To use the classic line, if you have to ask, you can't afford it. In this case, if you have to ask, you will not pull it off. Listen to all of the above. If you don't know if your girls can wear short dresses to a true black tie wedding, all you will end up doing is looking pretentious and sort of ignorant at your own wedding when it clearly does not meet the definition of black tie.
[QUOTE]If you must have a formal wedding, make it black tie. You will look silly if you try and do a white tie wedding in Michigan. Personally, I think semi-formal weddings with men wearing dark suits are just lovely, and the guests are more at ease. You will have many send regrets if they have to rent a tux to go to your wedding.
Posted by CMGr[/QUOTE]
Just out of curiosity - why would a white tie wedding in Michigan look silly compared to anywhere else? I agree that semi-formal weddings are definitely the way to go because they're both beautiful and more appropriate for most guests, but is there something about Michigan compared to the rest of the states that I don't know?
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: White Tie or Black Tie : White tie events are almost never held anywhere in the USA, except possibly New York City or Washington, DC - at least not since WW II. Michigan is not much different from Iowa, where I was born, or Colorado, where I live now. While there are occasionally black tie events, I have never heard of a white tie event in these parts. (My grandfather had a tailcoat. He was an orchestra conductor.)
Posted by CMGr[/QUOTE]
Oh, haha! I thought from your post that you were just singling out Michigan so I was curious. On a side note, my family is from Iowa, also!
Debutante balls are almost always white tie. And the local men's club has their annual white tie ball to welcome that year's new members.
It comes back to do you run in a crowd with black & white tie events? Have you ever been invited to one? Does anyone in your family know the first thing about hosting one? If you answered no to any of these questions, you probably shouldn't host one.
ETA: When I think of black tie it is long gown. White tie: gloves, up to the elbow!